New Attendings and Committees

[IonClaws]

Hey everyone -

I've read that new attendings often are encouraged to be on a committee of some kind (but just one at first so they focus on their patient care).

How often have you heard of new attendings join hospital or other committees?

Thanks,

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[Saddleshoes]

At my hospital, all attendings are expected to serve on a committee.
---I am a part time attending and I was given a list of committees and told to pick one. I picked one that met on days I did not work at the hospital. As a result I have never attended a committee meeting for 10 years. No one as come after me yet.

 

[gutonc]

Hey everyone -

I've read that new attendings often are encouraged to be on a committee of some kind (but just one at first so they focus on their patient care).

How often have you heard of new attendings join hospital or other committees?

Thanks,

Sing along...you know the words...

"It depends"

I was asked, early on by my boss, to sit on a couple of committees. A couple led to a few, which became several and I now have a job that's 40% clinical/60% administrative. One of my partners, hired 2 years after me, sits on a single committee..because he knows how to say no.

 

[deleted480308]

Sing along...you know the words...

"It depends"

I was asked, early on by my boss, to sit on a couple of committees. A couple led to a few, which became several and I now have a job that's 40% clinical/60% administrative. One of my partners, hired 2 years after me, sits on a single committee..because he knows how to say no.

Did those committees have a built in admin time or did being on those committees make you look more “administrative” and lead to actual job title changes?

 

[gutonc]

Did those committees have a built in admin time or did being on those committees make you look more “administrative” and lead to actual job title changes?

A little from column A and a little from column B.

The committees themselves didn't have the admin time but once I'd accumulated enough of them, I went back and said, "hey, if you average out the amount of time I've spent in meetings/committee work over the past quarter, it's basically 1 full day of clinic/wk I've had to give up to do it, so you need to pay me for that". The initial response was, essentially:

...when I told them I'd be stepping down from all those committees immediately and they'd need to find someone else to cover them, the tenor changed.

My current job is as a "section chief" running 7 clinics with 22 physicians and almost as many APPs, in addition to being the chair of the Dept of Medicine at one of the community hospitals we're affiliated with. That was intentional on my part.

I will say that we're in the process of adjusting our comp plan to include a "citizenship" bonus for any committee work that averages at least 4 hours/month. It works out to a little over $200/h to do it so hopefully we can start spreading this love around a little bit.

 

[deleted480308]

A little from column A and a little from column B.

The committees themselves didn't have the admin time but once I'd accumulated enough of them, I went back and said, "hey, if you average out the amount of time I've spent in meetings/committee work over the past quarter, it's basically 1 full day of clinic/wk I've had to give up to do it, so you need to pay me for that". The initial response was, essentially:

...when I told them I'd be stepping down from all those committees immediately and they'd need to find someone else to cover them, the tenor changed.

My current job is as a "section chief" running 7 clinics with 22 physicians and almost as many APPs, in addition to being the chair of the Dept of Medicine at one of the community hospitals we're affiliated with. That was intentional on my part.

I will say that we're in the process of adjusting our comp plan to include a "citizenship" bonus for any committee work that averages at least 4 hours/month. It works out to a little over $200/h to do it so hopefully we can start spreading this love around a little bit.

Appreciate it, that seems like an approach I could navigate. More of a “make yourself irreplaceable then ask for money” approach

 

[Apollyon]

A little from column A and a little from column B.

The committees themselves didn't have the admin time but once I'd accumulated enough of them, I went back and said, "hey, if you average out the amount of time I've spent in meetings/committee work over the past quarter, it's basically 1 full day of clinic/wk I've had to give up to do it, so you need to pay me for that". The initial response was, essentially:

...when I told them I'd be stepping down from all those committees immediately and they'd need to find someone else to cover them, the tenor changed.

My current job is as a "section chief" running 7 clinics with 22 physicians and almost as many APPs, in addition to being the chair of the Dept of Medicine at one of the community hospitals we're affiliated with. That was intentional on my part.

I will say that we're in the process of adjusting our comp plan to include a "citizenship" bonus for any committee work that averages at least 4 hours/month. It works out to a little over $200/h to do it so hopefully we can start spreading this love around a little bit.

You, as a political animal, approach two of the masters of the art that I've known in my life. One was on the RRC for my specialty, and was Dean of the med school until he retired, and the other is a great friend of mine from med school, with a private rads group, yet still elected president of the med staff, numbering over 600, and served 2 1-year terms, until she decided to not run again. That was met with muted trumpets, but, was then resignedly accepted.

In the words of Prince and Sheena Easton, you might not have "the look", but, you have the gift.

Although, your colleague may have you beaten!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

In general, committees come with no paid/protected time and do not help you get promoted (if you're in an academic place). Unless the topic is something you're passionate about, they tend to be seen as a waste of time. BUT. Doing good work on a committee gets you introduced to others at your center, and you're likely to find out about new projects in the pipeline which then lets you advocate for a leadership role in those areas, which often come with protected time. So they are a stepping stone to paid admin time. If you see yourself as a 100% clinical doc, avoid them like the plague. If you want to build a career portfolio that includes admin/leadership time, then you need to choose wisely those committees that will get you exposure to the people/area you want to grow in -- although this is often hard to see/predict if you don't know the local politics.

 

[dpmd]

Community doc here. I got placed on a committee when I failed to respond to the letter from the hospital asking me to join one, but I never went and nothing happened. I was then asked to be on the supervisory committee for my specialty and said why not because that one had dinner at least. A year later I was chief of the department and I am told to expect being chief of staff next year. I get paid a little when in a chief role otherwise I just get the free food (and wine at certain meetings). I also joined ethics committee at the other hospital I work at but it isn't what I thought it would be. More discussion about what docs violated the policy on tubal ligation (catholic hospital), less discussion of real ethical problems. But it comes with lunch.

 

[gutonc]

You, as a political animal, approach two of the masters of the art that I've known in my life. One was on the RRC for my specialty, and was Dean of the med school until he retired, and the other is a great friend of mine from med school, with a private rads group, yet still elected president of the med staff, numbering over 600, and served 2 1-year terms, until she decided to not run again. That was met with muted trumpets, but, was then resignedly accepted.

In the words of Prince and Sheena Easton, you might not have "the look", but, you have the gift.

Although, your colleague may have you beaten!

I don't think of myself as a political animal, and I honestly have no "aspirations to higher office", but admin is kind of like the mafia, once you're in, you can't get out.

When I was interviewing for my current job, the most frequent question I got was "do you think you'll be able to get everything done with only 3 administrative days and so much clinic time?". My response was (and remains), "probably not, but I won't work clinically any less than that since I would be completely disconnected from what it's like to be a practicing physician".

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Unless you think it could directly benefit you and enhance your career goals and you aren't overburdened... maybe. Otherwise:

 

[jurassicpark]

Community hospitalist here.. some folks nominated me for committees at various hospitals without asking and somehow I got emails to show up and do work. Mainly the med committees, and they're really political beasts. I used to like going to them, but then they changed their food policies. Then they somehow made all their meetings at 12-2pm and that was impossible to manage admits and floor issues. But mainly when they stopped bringing in the good food..

 

[B1GM0N3Y86]

I was asked in the first few months after being hired as a new attending by the president of the Physician group and some physician on a phone call during office hours in between patients. Secretary advised me some doctor and president wanted to speak to me, as a new attending I ran to my office to answer the call only to find out they were asking (more like expecting) me to serve some committee that would require me to drive to main campus at least monthly which is about an hour away from my office location. I advised them No, even after they said that maybe I should think about it after giving it some thought. If anything it irked me the wrong way expecting me to stop my shift to answer a call about serving a committee. Leave a message or email, and I will be happy to return your message. But take me away from patient care to try to put me on the spot, to attempt to get me to do FREE work, drive 2 hours round trip, for What??? My health, No thank you, let me be a doctor and treat patients and leave me alone please. Go do your Suit things elsewhere.

 

[robellis]

I was asked in the first few months after being hired as a new attending by the president of the Physician group and some physician on a phone call during office hours in between patients. Secretary advised me some doctor and president wanted to speak to me, as a new attending I ran to my office to answer the call only to find out they were asking (more like expecting) me to serve some committee that would require me to drive to main campus at least monthly which is about an hour away from my office location. I advised them No, even after they said that maybe I should think about it after giving it some thought. If anything it irked me the wrong way expecting me to stop my shift to answer a call about serving a committee. Leave a message or email, and I will be happy to return your message. But take me away from patient care to try to put me on the spot, to attempt to get me to do FREE work, drive 2 hours round trip, for What??? My health, No thank you, let me be a doctor and treat patients and leave me alone please. Go do your Suit things elsewhere.

agreed, if it doesn’t come with extra money or other benefits I’m not interested

 

[jurassicpark]

agreed, if it doesn’t come with extra money or other benefits I’m not interested

It is really going to depend on what your goals are. It is a good way to get your foot into the door with administration if that's your goal, to break into the upper echelons and see how the hospital works. Looks good on the CV.

 

[Osteoth]

It is really going to depend on what your goals are. It is a good way to get your foot into the door with administration if that's your goal, to break into the upper echelons and see how the hospital works. Looks good on the CV.

Problem is you have to put in a couple years of non compensated work until you can get to a place that’ll actually pay you more than you could make working a few extra shifts...

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

agreed, if it doesn’t come with extra money or other benefits I’m not interested

My group has problems with no one volunteering for exactly that reason so now they pay us hourly for all meetings like that.

 

[gutonc]

My group has problems with no one volunteering for exactly that reason so now they pay us hourly for all meetings like that.

As I mentioned above, my group is doing something similar soon as well. I think it’s completely reasonable and appropriate.
I will say that I have 2 admin positions at one of the hospitals I have privileges at (on top of all the admin work I do as part of my employed position) and I get paid for both of them. Not much...works out to ~$10k a year...but it’s something.