Neurodevelopmental Disabilities Pediatrics

[Stewardess3900]

Hello!

I was reading through some SDN posts about developmental behavior pediatrics yesterday and learned a lot about the lifestyle, the types of patients they see, and private practice or if they are academics. I’m curious to learn about the neurodevelopmental disabilities pediatrics track and what the lifestyle and work life for neurodevelopental pediatricians is like. I know they qualify for 3 boards and have a 6 year residency and I understand the difference between NDD and DB peds, but I’d like to know more about the physicians. Thank you!

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[Lazerbeam13]

Hi! I'm in the end of my NDD training. I would say there are quite a few differences. One of them being, NDD physicians have a much much stronger background in neurology and neuroscience and most graduates tend to do a mix of neurology and neurodevelopmental clinics and some even do inpatient. The ability to do basically anything you can imagine is one of the benefits of NDD. There are some who double down and neuro critical care consults and then follow-up the patient's in clinic for their neurologic and developmental care after. Some set up private practice developmental clinics where they can also do joint neurologic and developmental assessment (but honestly most of us will tell you all neurology patients will need some form of neurodevelopmental care).

The big difference is that I would say NDD tends to be focused and more trained to handle the developmental and cognitive aspects of children with underlying neurologic disease and complex care. BDP tends to work best with otherwise typical pediatric patients with behavioral and some developmental issues.

The lifestyle in training is vastly different as well. NDD tends to be much more rigorous in regards to hours and service schedules as you need to do all of the inpatient neurology work as well. DBP is a pure outpatient fellowship for three years without weekends or calls.

Salary is a big difference as well. NDD trained folks get the pay of an adult neurologist on average, while DBP unfortunately tends to make equivalent to less than a general pediatrician (due to lower patient volume as nature of longer visits - but with some CMS changes to allow billing for developmental testing as a procedure).

Hope that answers.

 

[Stewardess3900]

Hi! I'm in the end of my NDD training. I would say there are quite a few differences. One of them being, NDD physicians have a much much stronger background in neurology and neuroscience and most graduates tend to do a mix of neurology and neurodevelopmental clinics and some even do inpatient. The ability to do basically anything you can imagine is one of the benefits of NDD. There are some who double down and neuro critical care consults and then follow-up the patient's in clinic for their neurologic and developmental care after. Some set up private practice developmental clinics where they can also do joint neurologic and developmental assessment (but honestly most of us will tell you all neurology patients will need some form of neurodevelopmental care).

The big difference is that I would say NDD tends to be focused and more trained to handle the developmental and cognitive aspects of children with underlying neurologic disease and complex care. BDP tends to work best with otherwise typical pediatric patients with behavioral and some developmental issues.

The lifestyle in training is vastly different as well. NDD tends to be much more rigorous in regards to hours and service schedules as you need to do all of the inpatient neurology work as well. DBP is a pure outpatient fellowship for three years without weekends or calls.

Salary is a big difference as well. NDD trained folks get the pay of an adult neurologist on average, while DBP unfortunately tends to make equivalent to less than a general pediatrician (due to lower patient volume as nature of longer visits - but with some CMS changes to allow billing for developmental testing as a procedure).

Hope that answers.

Thank you so much! That helps a lot. Do you mind if I PM you with more questions?

 

[Appellatelove]

I can’t find the answer to this elsewhere but can you do an NDD fellowship after child neuro? If so, how long is it? Also, how is the job market, given that it is so niche? I wish there were more program! My city doesn’t have any spots.

 

[Stewardess3900]

I can’t find the answer to this elsewhere but can you do an NDD fellowship after child neuro? If so, how long is it? Also, how is the job market, given that it is so niche? I wish there were more program! My city doesn’t have any spots.

Hey! I can answer some of your questions, I’m not an NDD resident but I’ve learned a bit from extensive research into a rabbit hole about NDD lol.

I’m not sure if you could do an NDD fellowship after child neuro, but I did see a combined program at one of the 8 places that offers an NDD residency program. Child neuro is typically 5 years and NDD is usually 6 years and child neuro fellows can sit for two of the three boards NDD qualify for so I’m not sure why you’d want to do both. You could also do a fellowship into a specific subspecialty after a child neuro residency, even if it’s not specifically NDD.

Also not sure about the job market, but it seems like NDD specialists are in high demand. I would also like to know more about careers in NDD. There are only 8 programs in the country because it’s such a new field, created in 2002, so I’m not sure if you can find a program in your city.

Hope I helped! Please correct me if I’m wrong about any of this stuff.

 

[Lazerbeam13]

I can’t find the answer to this elsewhere but can you do an NDD fellowship after child neuro? If so, how long is it? Also, how is the job market, given that it is so niche? I wish there were more program! My city doesn’t have any spots.

you cannot. There are discussions of a pediatric behavioral neurology or one year transitional fellowship that would allow you to sit for NDD boards but it is still in the early stages. Right now you can only get NDD boarded as part of a combined/categorical 6 year program or a 4 year Child neuro/NDD fellowship after either 2 or 3 years of general pediatrics training (for an Advanced or reserved spot).

 

[Lazerbeam13]

Thank you so much! That helps a lot. Do you mind if I PM you with more questions?

Sure thing

 

[Lazerbeam13]

I can’t find the answer to this elsewhere but can you do an NDD fellowship after child neuro? If so, how long is it? Also, how is the job market, given that it is so niche? I wish there were more program! My city doesn’t have any spots.

also There are only around 275 to 300 NDD boarded folks in the country. They are very much needed andyou can go anywhere you just may need to sell on what you can do (becuase a lo of people don’t really know what NDD can do). A lot of people will take a “general child neuro” position and then jsut make it their own and write in the contract how they run things

 

[Crowder]

I can’t find the answer to this elsewhere but can you do an NDD fellowship after child neuro? If so, how long is it? Also, how is the job market, given that it is so niche? I wish there were more program! My city doesn’t have any spots.

Re: the job market for graduates

NDD is desirable in many/most places, especially with backdrop of child neurology training (as child neuro is also in high demand). That said, a lot of it can depend on what your specific area of interest is. The NDD training means you should have more latitude to shape your ideal practice (even in academics).

To echo what Lazerbeam13 said, many people will take a child neuro position and then do NDD work in that framework. Because there are so few people graduating from programs every year, a web search for NDD jobs will usually only yield a few results -- even though the demand is quite high.

 

[neurokids1]

you cannot. There are discussions of a pediatric behavioral neurology or one year transitional fellowship that would allow you to sit for NDD boards but it is still in the early stages. Right now you can only get NDD boarded as part of a combined/categorical 6 year program or a 4 year Child neuro/NDD fellowship after either 2 or 3 years of general pediatrics training (for an Advanced or reserved spot).

Where would I be able to find out more about potential NDD fellowships (after child neurology residency) that are in the works?

 

[whatisgood]

Currently interviewing for NDD/CN programs, and so far programs that have told me they have a 1 year NDD fellowship for folks who completed a 5 year CN program are UCSD, UC Irvine, CHLA, UTSW, KKI/JHU. These fellowships are either brand new or in the planning stages so you won't find much info on websites. If you are interested in these fellowships, you are able to customize outpatient clinics to be more tailored towards NDD patients even as a child neurology resident, so you get the longitudinal perspective. A few of the attendings who are creating these 1 year NDD fellowships seem to have done an individualized 1 year behavioral child neurology fellowship at Boston Children's after a 5 year CN program, and their job seems very similar to NDD attendings. Not sure how many NDD programs consider advanced spots for people who did 3 years of gen peds, but I know KKI/JHU have recruited such people the past few years. In any case, if you want to be NDD trained, there are multiple ways to get there.