Need your help..

[premedmind]

I just got my NYS EMT-B certification this past Thursday. I am already a member of my local volunteer FD, however, there are a couple of problems with this scenario.

1. My local FD did NOT refund the $800 I spent on the EMT training course (alledgedly because I started the course BEFORE I applied for membership to the FD). I didn't know that the course was free in the first place..

2. They require all EMT's to go to "fire-school"..to be trained as a "fire-medic"...Quite frankly I don't have time, nor the patience, nor the desire, to go to be trained in fire when I my ultimate goal is to go to MEDICAL school. Most of the other departments around my area do NOT require EMT's to be trained in fire. I did not know this until after my 9th visit (they require you to make 10 visits to the FD before you can apply).

3. They gave me a pager, but after almost 3 or 4 months have YET to assign me to a squad to go on calls. Now I have the pager on all day, stressing about which calls to go on and which to not. Plus, when I make it to the fire-house, the ambulance is not even there half the time?? (I get there in like 1 minute flat, so that's not the issue). Now I am going to be blamed for not going on calls.

OK, sorry, I just had to vent. Been having a lot of stress about this lately.

Here are my possible solutions, you can suggest new ones if you have.

1. Quit my local FD and join the FDNY as a paid EMT.
2. I already applied to Jones Beach EMS as a paid EMT (waiting for their reply).

Can you guys please help me out in sorting this mess? I am clueless when it comes to fire departments and going on calls. What you would pre-meds do in my situation (still, keeping the ultimate goal of going to med-school in mind)?

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[MadMack]

I just got my NYS EMT-B certification this past Thursday. I am already a member of my local volunteer FD, however, there are a couple of problems with this scenario.

1. My local FD did NOT refund the $800 I spent on the EMT training course (alledgedly because I started the course BEFORE I applied for membership to the FD). I didn't know that the course was free in the first place..

2. They require all EMT's to go to "fire-school"..to be trained as a "fire-medic"...Quite frankly I don't have time, nor the patience, nor the desire, to go to be trained in fire when I my ultimate goal is to go to MEDICAL school. Most of the other departments around my area do NOT require EMT's to be trained in fire. I did not know this until after my 9th visit (they require you to make 10 visits to the FD before you can apply).

3. They gave me a pager, but after almost 3 or 4 months have YET to assign me to a squad to go on calls. Now I have the pager on all day, stressing about which calls to go on and which to not. Plus, when I make it to the fire-house, the ambulance is not even there half the time?? (I get there in like 1 minute flat, so that's not the issue). Now I am going to be blamed for not going on calls.

OK, sorry, I just had to vent. Been having a lot of stress about this lately.

Here are my possible solutions, you can suggest new ones if you have.

1. Quit my local FD and join the FDNY as a paid EMT.
2. I already applied to Jones Beach EMS as a paid EMT (waiting for their reply).

Can you guys please help me out in sorting this mess? I am clueless when it comes to fire departments andr going on calls. What you would pre-meds do in my situation (still, keeping the ultimate goal of going to med-school in mind)?

You probably won't survive the interview process with the FDNY; they're not looking for summer workers, they're looking for career folks. A company like AMR might not be a bad idea if you want hands on experience with patients. Just remember, EMT work isn't necessarily going to improve your grasp of medicine as everything a Basic does is external; splinting, bleeding control, immobilization etc, it may however improve your patient skills beyond those possessed by some of you colleagues; if you can ascultate a BP when the truck is doing a priority 1 trauma alert you're gonna be ahead of the curve, same with palpating pulses and listening/differentiating lung sounds.

As far as a FDs procedures go, I can only speak from my experience with career departments and what I've heard from fellow Paramedic students about volie departments. Career departments you're in the station for 24-48 hours waiting for the calls, training, whatever your department has you do with downtime. Volie departments are much the same, though with shorter shifts of 6-8 to 12-24 for officers.

To your statement of "sometimes the ambulance is gone", unless someone is on the can or the gym, we're generally rolling out of the station within 20-30 seconds of getting a call; sometimes faster if we're already in the bay. So unless you're in the station when the rescue gets toned out, you're probably going to miss it.

In regards to Firefighter/EMTs, not to be confused with Firefighter/Paramedics or Firemedic as some departments call them; departments are moving towards dual role so they can swap members between the engine and the rescue. No sense in having someone on a pump engine if they don't what the hell they're doing. Same is true with sticking a Firefighter on an Ambulance; no sense having someone there who doesn't have the training.

Not sure if any of that helped, but its my .02.

 

[cavalier329]

I have been a NYS EMT for about 3 years and a NYS CFR for 3 years prior to that, so I kindve know what your looking for. It seems I live in the same general vicinity as you as well.

How old are you? If you are pre-med, then joining FDNY will require more time than you have if you are in school. FDNY EMS is a full time job and they don't hire summer students as was stated already.

Also, if you do join FDNY, your NYS EMT-B is meaningless. They send you to their academy where they re-train you for city protocol and their way of doing things. You will retake the EMT class all over again and have to complete the FDNY EMS academy.

You may find it difficult to get a paid job since the ink on your card is still wet. Many agencies may not hire you with less than a year of experience, but then again some may, Im not familiar with Jones Beach though.

What I do suggest is that you stay away from FD EMS agencies. That may be all you have, but you should try to find a volunteer ambulance agency within a half hour of you. You may be SOL with the cost of the class, but you seem to know that already.

Your situation with an FD EMS squad is pretty typical, which is why I dont believe being in a combined squad is good for someone seeking medical experience. Like I said, the best option for you is to try and find a volunteer EMS squad. It also seems that you are looking for a paid position. If thats the case, you may be directed towards EMS transport. I would advise against this if you are a new EMT. EMS transport does not really give you practice because most of what you will be doing is pre-scheduled transports to dialysis centers and such. You will have very very little, if any, 911 experience.

So if 911 experience is what you want, I'd try and find an EMS agency. If you actually have the time to work full time somewhere and not just for the summer, and you live near NYC, look into the ambulance agencies for the city hospitals.

Hope this helps. I would also be very careful to separate EMS and premed. They do not go hand in hand. EMS is a great experience, but if your doing it for pre-med reasons only then I think you should do your future patients a favor and find another "clinical experience" to pursue. Remember you will sometimes be a person's lifeline and if you only have your medical school application as a motivation for your time as an EMT, then you will be doing these people a great disservice.

I dont want to sound accusatory, its just something I personally despise. I hope I have helped you though, feel free to ask me anything.

 

[premedmind]

I have been a NYS EMT for about 3 years and a NYS CFR for 3 years prior to that, so I kindve know what your looking for. It seems I live in the same general vicinity as you as well.

How old are you? If you are pre-med, then joining FDNY will require more time than you have if you are in school. FDNY EMS is a full time job and they don't hire summer students as was stated already.

Also, if you do join FDNY, your NYS EMT-B is meaningless. They send you to their academy where they re-train you for city protocol and their way of doing things. You will retake the EMT class all over again and have to complete the FDNY EMS academy.

You may find it difficult to get a paid job since the ink on your card is still wet. Many agencies may not hire you with less than a year of experience, but then again some may, Im not familiar with Jones Beach though.

What I do suggest is that you stay away from FD EMS agencies. That may be all you have, but you should try to find a volunteer ambulance agency within a half hour of you. You may be SOL with the cost of the class, but you seem to know that already.

Your situation with an FD EMS squad is pretty typical, which is why I dont believe being in a combined squad is good for someone seeking medical experience. Like I said, the best option for you is to try and find a volunteer EMS squad. It also seems that you are looking for a paid position. If thats the case, you may be directed towards EMS transport. I would advise against this if you are a new EMT. EMS transport does not really give you practice because most of what you will be doing is pre-scheduled transports to dialysis centers and such. You will have very very little, if any, 911 experience.

So if 911 experience is what you want, I'd try and find an EMS agency. If you actually have the time to work full time somewhere and not just for the summer, and you live near NYC, look into the ambulance agencies for the city hospitals.

Hope this helps. I would also be very careful to separate EMS and premed. They do not go hand in hand. EMS is a great experience, but if your doing it for pre-med reasons only then I think you should do your future patients a favor and find another "clinical experience" to pursue. Remember you will sometimes be a person's lifeline and if you only have your medical school application as a motivation for your time as an EMT, then you will be doing these people a great disservice.

I dont want to sound accusatory, its just something I personally despise. I hope I have helped you though, feel free to ask me anything.

Thanks guys...I am 20 years old and pre-med, entering my Junior year. I am from Nassau County. I want the best experience for myself, whether it be paid or volunteer.

I did have a volunteer EMS agency within 30 minutes of me that I applied to...the only problem with that was the commute I was going to have to do, which was about 20 minutes. I actually ended up turning them down because by the time they were done processing my application (took them nearly 2 months), I was already finishing up my 10 visits at my local FD, and didn't really know what I was getting myself into. I rationalized my decision that volunteering at a FD 2 minutes from my house would be easier on me than commuting 20 minutes to an EMS corps.

I already feel as if I have committed myself to this fire department, and would feel crappy to leave. The guys at the FD are already getting on my back for not going on enough calls.

As far as the FDNY EMS job, if what you say is true, then I might as well abandon that idea right off the bat. I was looking for a summer position.

At this point I feel as if my only option is to stay with the FD...FDNY EMS is out of the question, city transports are out of the question also. I had turned down the volunteer EMS squad a few months back and don't know if it would be a wise idea to call them up again. Jones Beach EMS seems like my last hope...and even that isn't a great option (they said you will be doing odd-jobs, like picking up trash during your off-time). I was hoping there would be more options geared towards students than there are...

 

[MadMack]

Thanks guys...I am 20 years old and pre-med, entering my Junior year. I am from Nassau County. I want the best experience for myself, whether it be paid or volunteer.

I did have a volunteer EMS agency within 30 minutes of me that I applied to...the only problem with that was the commute I was going to have to do, which was about 20 minutes. I actually ended up turning them down because by the time they were done processing my application (took them nearly 2 months), I was already finishing up my 10 visits at my local FD, and didn't really know what I was getting myself into. I rationalized my decision that volunteering at a FD 2 minutes from my house would be easier on me than commuting 20 minutes to an EMS corps.

I already feel as if I have committed myself to this fire department, and would feel crappy to leave. The guys at the FD are already getting on my back for not going on enough calls.

As far as the FDNY EMS job, if what you say is true, then I might as well abandon that idea right off the bat. I was looking for a summer position.

At this point I feel as if my only option is to stay with the FD...FDNY EMS is out of the question, city transports are out of the question also. I had turned down the volunteer EMS squad a few months back and don't know if it would be a wise idea to call them up again. Jones Beach EMS seems like my last hope...and even that isn't a great option (they said you will be doing odd-jobs, like picking up trash during your off-time). I was hoping there would be more options geared towards students than there are...

Go into the FD and talk with whoever is in charge of the volunteer program and find out what's going on. Something could've slipped through the cracks, especially if they're piling on about not going on calls. Chances are something got missed somewhere and it'll be easy enough to correct.

However, you last sentence inspired something of a rant. Apologies in advance if anything I say sounds condescending.

Emergency Medical Services doesn't have a lot of things geared towards students because its not for students. Even as a Basic, there may be times when your ability to do your job is going to mean the difference between someones life and death; can you effectively do CPR during a code? Can you be sharp enough to catch something your Paramedic misses? Can you recognize a life threatening condition and convince someone that they need to get to an ED, even if they initially don't want to?

Think long and hard about why you're doing this. Do you want experience for you med-school application or do you want to help people? Do you want to be able to tell your friends you have a cool job? Cavalier makes a great point, if you're doing this for your application, don't. I know this is a forum for doctors and a lot of doctors look down with disdain on Paramedics and EMT's, but we are healthcare professionals, and we do take our patient's care extremely seriously. If you're going to ride and do emergency response you need to realize that on that rig you're an EMT not a student, not a premed, not a doctor, not a paramedic. You are filling a slot in a high stress field where you're responsible for facilitating the pre-hospital care and transport of sick and injured people, some critically so; people's lives are on the line. This is not working at the mall or volunteering in the ER, Hospital or Clinic, this is the real deal.

It's not a summer job, its a unique and critical position in the healthcare field. If you're willing to dedicate yourself to being the best EMT you can possibly be, I say go for it. If you can't, we have enough half-assed career EMTs as it is.

Also, if you have any questions, feel free to ask me as well. Cavalier and I may have differing views on certain things, as we're from different regions of the country, but neither or us would steer you wrong.

 

[premedmind]

Go into the FD and talk with whoever is in charge of the volunteer program and find out what's going on. Something could've slipped through the cracks, especially if they're piling on about not going on calls. Chances are something got missed somewhere and it'll be easy enough to correct.

However, you last sentence inspired something of a rant. Apologies in advance if anything I say sounds condescending.

Emergency Medical Services doesn't have a lot of things geared towards students because its not for students. Even as a Basic, there may be times when your ability to do your job is going to mean the difference between someones life and death; can you effectively do CPR during a code? Can you be sharp enough to catch something your Paramedic misses? Can you recognize a life threatening condition and convince someone that they need to get to an ED, even if they initially don't want to?

Think long and hard about why you're doing this. Do you want experience for you med-school application or do you want to help people? Do you want to be able to tell your friends you have a cool job? Cavalier makes a great point, if you're doing this for your application, don't. I know this is a forum for doctors and a lot of doctors look down with disdain on Paramedics and EMT's, but we are healthcare professionals, and we do take our patient's care extremely seriously. If you're going to ride and do emergency response you need to realize that on that rig you're an EMT not a student, not a premed, not a doctor, not a paramedic. You are filling a slot in a high stress field where you're responsible for facilitating the pre-hospital care and transport of sick and injured people, some critically so; people's lives are on the line. This is not working at the mall or volunteering in the ER, Hospital or Clinic, this is the real deal.

It's not a summer job, its a unique and critical position in the healthcare field. If you're willing to dedicate yourself to being the best EMT you can possibly be, I say go for it. If you can't, we have enough half-assed career EMTs as it is.

Also, if you have any questions, feel free to ask me as well. Cavalier and I may have differing views on certain things, as we're from different regions of the country, but neither or us would steer you wrong.

I understand where you are coming from, and agree with you 100%. I became an EMT because I was interested in the experience I would gain in the healthcare field (I also thought it might be fun). I'm not going to lie, I also did it for my med-school app, because ultimately what I would like to do with my life is at least mildly related to it. I commend you for taking your job very seriously. What I meant by saying that it wasn't geared towards students was that I don't actually see many pre-med students like my self doing this.

 

[cavalier329]

There are TONS of premeds who are EMT's. Problem is, many of them do exactly what you do and don't show they did much of anything as EMT's. They may have seen a few "good" jobs, but there is no substance to their time.

Reality is, if you want to get something out of being an EMT, its going to take a lot more than 2 years and a few rotations during the summer. You may find that you hate EMS because there is a lot of BS associated with it.

You may be on the truck 100 times and never see an MVA or a code. You may take 300 people to the hospital for indigestion before you see anything emergent. Thats the reality of the job. People call, you come and you take them to the hospital, despite whether or not you believe its an emergency. Its not a glamorous job and you are rarely seen as a hero.

And I also just wanted to add this in. I am actually surprised you haven't experienced this as a member of an FD/EMS. The odd-jobs like picking up trash is a HUGE part of any job as an EMT or FF. It will probably be the responsibility of you and your crew to clean the building, take out the trash, wash the trucks, and check the trucks (this is a certainty). In some places, you may be required to cook for everyone. I was as a probie...

If you want to see what its like to be a doctor, EMS isn't gonna give that to you. If you want to get a taste of emergency medicine, EMS will certainly give you a small glimpse of the big picture...but there is MUCH more.

I am sorry if I sound condescending, but I want you to get a good idea of what EMS is all about because you seem to have some misconceptions about the business. As madmack said, dont hesitate to ask either of us anything. But I must stress...EMS is not meant to be a summer job for students. Dont treat it like one either.

 

[Druggernaut]

You may find that you hate EMS because there is a lot of BS associated with it.

You may be on the truck 100 times and never see an MVA or a code. You may take 300 people to the hospital for indigestion before you see anything emergent. Thats the reality of the job. People call, you come and you take them to the hospital, despite whether or not you believe its an emergency. Its not a glamorous job and you are rarely seen as a hero.

I find this to be a pretty big benefit of working EMS as a pre-med. A few years of dealing with some of the most loathesome people out there for minor and non-problems should help you decide whether putting seven or more years of time into medical education is worth it for you.

I doubt many jobs are going to give you a taste of what it's like to be a doctor. But EMS will give you some practice in talking to patients, taking a history and performing an assessment, and learning some basics of common drugs and medical conditions.

I'd also recommend finding a job in an emergency department to pre-med EMTs. You can get some idea of what goes into the workup of a patient, see part of what actually happens in the day-in, day-out of being a doctor, and depending on your local hospital rules, practice some skills that aren't in your scope of practice in the pre-hospital arena. As a EMT-B, I'm placing IVs and urinary catheters, and I'll be taking a 24 hour course in basic EKG interpretation paid for by the hospital, just for a few examples. You also get 8 to 12 hour shifts that can be worked into your schedule much easier as a student, assuming that you're working year round and not as a temporary summer student. If that's the case, your only option might be running grannies to their doctor's appointments with a private ambulance service (which can be boring, but still has some value, especially if you have no patient care experience).

 

[premedmind]

Thanks guys..

Well, guess what...I saw an ambulance from a town within 5 minutes of me that was part of an ambulance corps...looks like I have a new place to check out.

Only thing is, like I said before, I would feel terrible leaving my fire department. Not because I met so many great people, but because of the time I already invested in the place.

What would you do? Stick with a fire department that requires you to do "fire" training as a fire-medic (I think it's 3 months of training), or remain at the FD while you check out the ambulance corps, and if it turns out better than the FD, leave the FD?

*BTW, the reason I hadn't of found this ambulance corps sooner was because the guy from the ambulance corps 20 minutes from me said there were no other corps besides their own and another place in suffolk on Long Island. So basically, he lied, or he didn't actually know.

 

[cavalier329]

id stick with the FD and check out the new place...if it works out better leave the FD. I understand you might feel some sorrow doing this but they will understand that fire isnt for you. You would actually be costing them money by remaining a member but not going on calls.

 

[premedmind]

id stick with the FD and check out the new place...if it works out better leave the FD. I understand you might feel some sorrow doing this but they will understand that fire isnt for you. You would actually be costing them money by remaining a member but not going on calls.

Thanks...I think that's just what I'll do.

 

[KD1655]

I am a NJ EMT for about 5 years now, I was also a NYS EMT for 3 years. I started out doing volunteer work as an EMT and then moved to a paid suburban service. I now work for the largest paid urban EMS service in NJ. I am also a volunteer firefighter and have completed the Firefighter I and Firefighter II course. However, my fire department does no EMS and there are only a handful of guys that do have some medical credentials. Like you, I am also a pre-med and in my senior year. From what it sounds like, your volunteer FD is playing games with you and you should probably look elsewhere. As far as paid EMS experience, I'm not necessarily sure that it is the best thing to do as a premed. You will get a ton of experience working paid, especially in an urban setting however, it is extremely difficult to find time to work substanial hours on the truck while maintaining the grades needed to get into medical school. Also, from what I hear, medical schools do not differentiate between substantial paid service as an EMT or paramedic and volunteer service when it comes to admissions.