Need some advice...3.2/3.3sgpa 31 mcat, great ECs. MD chances?

[Goro]

The Adcom members aren't deciding who to invite...the Admissions dean does that. Did you speak to a Dean? or a faculty member?

And your chances are NOT 40%...it's not a random process, and you can't base your stats on the nationwide avg since you're not going to be applying to HBCs, or state specific schools like U AL or U OK, or U NM. You have to look at the odds for each individual school, and your GPAs are in the <10th %ile range for nearly every MD school in the US.

My chances as people had said is around 40%. For this process that's not bad considering that's right at the national average. I have said about 5 times through these pages that I have talked to adcom members at schools as well as students and my pre med adviser who said I have a chance this cycle. I'm a disadvantaged applicant which isn't the same as URM but I know it carries some weight. And the slim chance I don't get in after applying to 40 schools, I have a back up plan for the gap year before I would reapply.

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[WillburCobb]

Well I shouldn't have even posted here

 

[shaner123]

Delete thread

 

[Launcelot]

Well I shouldn't have even posted here since I'm going to just apply anyway. Thanks for the advice but I'll talk to you in October when there first acceptances are sent out.

k, talk to you in October 2020 after you're finished with your multiple post baccs and SMPs!

 

[shaner123]

Well I've thought about what everyone said. What if I bring my gpa up to a 3.35 after summer classes and strengthen my ECs a bit. Do I have a better chance?

 

[shaner123]

To clarify that would be my cgpa at 3.35 and science would be 3.32

Is it disadvantageous to submit AMCAS around July 1st so I can have my grades on there?

 

[shaner123]

Bump

 

[shaner123]

Any advice on my new post is appreciated.

 

[bearded frog]

​

 

[orangeman25]

Every bottom tier MD (~35 schools, too many to lists but know they were all SDN favorites) and mid to higher tier DO (~8). I got only two interviews from DOs (1 in CA, 1 in NV) and I was done. I completely over estimated my attractiveness to adcoms, my (our) gpa killed me before I even got started on MD interviews, not to mention most DO schools too.

I don't think you did anything wrong. You applied to a healthy amount of MD and DO schools.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

To clarify that would be my cgpa at 3.35 and science would be 3.32

Is it disadvantageous to submit AMCAS around July 1st so I can have my grades on there?

If your grades are appreciably higher by July 1st, then maybe it would help. But remember, your transcripts need to be sent in and verified before your app is blasted out to the schools. There isn't much data on the disadvantages of late apps (but anecdotes through the roof), and if your grades are updated July 1, transcripts received July 15, and verified August 15th, you'd be a late app with below average stats.
I know you're sick of hearing it, but a year off would do you some good. Your EC's, post name aside, aren't great, your upward-trending GPA still hasn't passed 3.6 (meaning even if you averaged your highest semester for all of college you still would be <10th % at your ideal schools like NYU and Sinai), and you can be an early app for the 2020 cycle.

 

[shaner123]

If your question is would a higher gpa increase your chances of acceptance? Yes, obviously. Is it worth the delay in submission? I don't know. Is that increase enough to perceptibly change your chances? Can't answer that either.

Going up by .12 is a big increase I would think in the time frame of 1 month

 

[candbgirl]

You ask the questions. You don't like the answers. End of story. Nothing in your scenario had changed from last night. May be you should go read the school specific threads and see who has been accepted and what their stats are. Maybe that will wake you up to how low your stats are. Or you could go read the Panic thread and see people with stats much higher than you still waiting for acceptances.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

You ask the questions. You don't like the answers. End of story. Nothing in your scenario had changed from last night. May be you should go read the school specific threads and see who has been accepted and what their stats are. Maybe that will wake you up to how low your stats are. Or you could go read the Panic thread and see people with stats much higher than you still waiting for acceptances.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

You cold @candbgirl
I mean, you're right, but you cold!

 

[bearded frog]

​

 

[V5RED]

Well I've thought about what everyone said. What if I bring my gpa up to a 3.35 after summer classes and strengthen my ECs a bit. Do I have a better chance?

You have never had a single semester that was even average for an MD matriculant. You claim to struggle with heavy course loads and this would take something like 30+ credits where you get all A's in a single month. Based on three years of grades, you are not capable of pulling this off. You did not do well for 3 years, you have never had a semester that would be competitive for MD. An upward trend means nothing if it goes from crap all the way up to below average.

Also, you didn't build up your crappy GPA in a month, you aren't going to fix it in a month.

Even if you were granted an interview, you are coming off as wildly immature. The best path for you, based on stats, is DO. Personally I don't think you should apply to any medical school for a couple years, rather you should spend some time rehabilitating your grades slowly and maturing.

 

[shaner123]

You have never had a single semester that was even average for an MD matriculant. You claim to struggle with heavy course loads and this would take something like 30+ credits where you get all A's in a single month. Based on three years of grades, you are not capable of pulling this off. You did not do well for 3 years, you have never had a semester that would be competitive for MD. An upward trend means nothing if it goes from crap all the way up to below average.

Also, you didn't build up your crappy GPA in a month, you aren't going to fix it in a month.

Even if you were granted an interview, you are coming off as wildly immature. The best path for you, based on stats, is DO. Personally I don't think you should apply to any medical school for a couple years, rather you should spend some time rehabilitating your grades slowly and maturing.

I question where you get 30+ credits. Actually it would be 15 credits and it can be done bc I looked. There's no need for rudeness. Were here to help each other but this has turned into verbally attack the OP.

 

[WillburCobb]

Were here to help each other but this has turned into verbally attack the OP.

I wonder how that happened?

 

[V5RED]

I question where you get 30+ credits. Actually it would be 15 credits and it can be done bc I looked. There's no need for rudeness. Were here to help each other but this has turned into verbally attack the OP.

You said you had ~100 credits. If you do simple algebra, 100 [email protected] average requires 23 [email protected] to get to 3.35. I assumed you would not get a 4.0, so I estimated up.

If you only need 15 credits to raise a 3.2 to a 3.35, then you have, at most, 65 credits right now. That makes no sense given your claims of an overloaded schedule and having already completed your Junior year(which normally lands you 90 credits).

I did not attack you. Most people did not. You perceive statements of truth as attacks because they conflict with your desires. This is a mark of immaturity. I used to be very immature like this. I cannot tell if you are trolling, but I have said my piece.

 

[Doctorman45342]

I'm not saying it isn't difficult, it is. But there are thousands of applicants with 3.9 GPAs while taking big course loads and ECs. Furthermore, ADCOMs expect you to have good time management skills, and know when to cut back on extracurriculars, course loads when you are aware you cannot excel in them. This is the party line. I'm telling you what you're up against. If you can knock out a 3.9 this year that will help you with your upward trend story. If you can excell this year, and identify and reflect on the reasons you struggled in previous years, that will go a long way to help an ADCOM look past a underperfoming total GPA.

Assuming your MCAT scores are balanced, a 31 is a competitive score. The rate limiting step here is your GPA. A 36 MCAT will not make up for the issues your GPA presents, so there is no advantage for you to retake it.

lol, I think we have a tertiary reaction going on here...

 

[shaner123]

Well I recalculated my GPA and it's 3.26 and sgpa is 3.2. I plan on applying and seeing what happens this cycle. Thanks for the advice everyone and no I'm not trolling. I just wasn't ready for such harsh, yet true, criticism of my absolutely horrid GPA.

 

[Sean Lee]

Well I recalculated my GPA and it's 3.26 and sgpa is 3.2. I plan on applying and seeing what happens this cycle. Thanks for the advice everyone and no I'm not trolling. I just wasn't ready for such harsh, yet true, criticism of my absolutely horrid GPA.

I would like to reiterate what most have said to you: apply to a few DO schools.

I highly doubt that you'll have much success, if any, at MD schools with your stats.

 

[shaner123]

I would like to reiterate what most have said to you: apply to a few DO schools.

I highly doubt that you'll have much success, if any, at MD schools with your stats.

I know I should apply DO since I could get right in but it doesn't appeal to me. I would rather MD. Just personal preference. I have a few MD schools in mind where I might have a shot. Goro said I may a chance at TCMC since of the in state preference and I'm from a rural area. I know I might not have success. If I don't get in I'm gonna go SMP.

 

[edgerock24]

I know I should apply DO since I could get right in but it doesn't appeal to me. I would rather MD. Just personal preference. I have a few MD schools in mind where I might have a shot. Goro said I may a chance at TCMC since of the in state preference and I'm from a rural area. I know I might not have success. If I don't get in I'm gonna go SMP.

Always find it funny when people with borderline/low stats are too stubborn or picky to apply to osteopathic medical schools.

And FYI, you may complete a SMP and still not get accepted to an MD school.

 

[Sean Lee]

I know I should apply DO since I could get right in but it doesn't appeal to me. I would rather MD. Just personal preference. I have a few MD schools in mind where I might have a shot. Goro said I may a chance at TCMC since of the in state preference and I'm from a rural area. I know I might not have success. If I don't get in I'm gonna go SMP.

I won't be so sure about that...

Your stats are competitive for DO schools (especially that MCAT), but DO schools aren't just "walk-ins" for people with stats not competitive for MD schools.

 

[lmn]

Always find it funny when people with borderline/low stats are too stubborn or picky to apply to osteopathic medical schools.

And FYI, you may complete a SMP and still not get accepted to an MD school.

Why is this an issue? DO schools shouldn't just be a "fallback" for people who can't make it into MD programs. Although over time their training and career paths/work have gotten much more inline with MD's, there is still a substantial difference, and if that difference isn't something someone wants or likes they absolutely shouldn't pursue that path. I personally think it is a bit of a lame excuse for people to go DO simply because they aren't competitive for MD if they don't know/care about anything regarding OMM/DO differences.

 

[edgerock24]

Why is this an issue? DO schools shouldn't just be a "fallback" for people who can't make it into MD programs. Although over time their training and career paths/work have gotten much more inline with MD's, there is still a substantial difference, and if that difference isn't something someone wants or likes they absolutely shouldn't pursue that path. I personally think it is a bit of a lame excuse for people to go DO simply because they aren't competitive for MD if they don't know/care about anything regarding OMM/DO differences.

Most DO's could care less about OMM/"DO differences." It doesn't really factor into much in the long run, unless one chooses to do an OMM residency (most don't). Therefore, people should apply to osteopathic med schools to become physicians, and having to partake in OMM training should not be a deal breaker at all. Just my $0.02.

 

[lmn]

Most DO's could care less about OMM/"DO differences." It doesn't really factor into much in the long run, unless one chooses to do an OMM residency (most don't). Therefore, people should apply to osteopathic med schools to become physicians, and having to partake in OMM training should not be a deal breaker at all. Just my $0.02.

I don't disagree at all that a DO is perfectly capable of never using any of the DO portion of their education in practice, I am more against it from a moral perspective. I personally just think it's pretty pathetic to lie and pretend that you want to be a DO vs MD during your interviews when in reality you just want to be a physician and don't care about the DO aspect. Again, not saying that it isn't an effective way to become a physician when the doors to MD are closed to you, just not something I particularly like.

 

[shaner123]

DO school is a final back up for me if it came to it. I don't see the problem of using it as a back up plan if you don't get accepted to MD school.

 

[V5RED]

I don't disagree at all that a DO is perfectly capable of never using any of the DO portion of their education in practice, I am more against it from a moral perspective. I personally just think it's pretty pathetic to lie and pretend that you want to be a DO vs MD during your interviews when in reality you just want to be a physician and don't care about the DO aspect. Again, not saying that it isn't an effective way to become a physician when the doors to MD are closed to you, just not something I particularly like.

I wonder if many of the DO schools would have to close if everyone who would rather be an MD/disliked OMM simply did not apply DO.

In any event, lying to get into medical school is almost mandatory. There are way more applicants that could be great doctors than there are spots available, so everyone has to present themselves as exactly what the school wants whether it is true or false. We pretend we are in love with every school we interview at, we pretend that we would be okay working primary care in the sticks while being paid in eggs, we pretend we are not in this for the money/job security/prestige, we pretend that we are all little Mother Theresas, we pretend to be interested in our professors' lives for great LORs, we pretend to be fascinated by research for the EC, and I am sure there are many other things we pretend to be true so we can get an acceptance to MD or DO schools. Condemning people for pretending to like OMM to get to be a doctor is a bit silly when you consider how fake the whole process is.

Note: I realize many of the things I listed do not apply to many applicants, but aside form one person I know(who is giving up a massive income from a business he owns to pursue medicine, he will actually lose millions of dollars from this whole process), I have yet to meet a premed who is not lying on some level to get accepted to medical school.

 

[orangeman25]

Well I recalculated my GPA and it's 3.26 and sgpa is 3.2. I plan on applying and seeing what happens this cycle. Thanks for the advice everyone and no I'm not trolling. I just wasn't ready for such harsh, yet true, criticism of my absolutely horrid GPA.

OP, take an extra year and improve your GPA. Take heavy course loads (20 credits a semester at least). You clearly were able to do decent on the MCAT; pulling off a 3.7 at least for two semesters will be an easier feat in my opinion.

 

[shaner123]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I've decided that I'm going to stay another year and work on my gpa and then do a masters during my gap year.

 

[Sean Lee]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I've decided that I'm going to stay another year and work on my gpa and then do a masters during my gap year.

And you'll most likely have to retake the new, 9 hour MCAT when you apply.

If I were you, I'll apply to DO schools right away so I can become a physician.

 

[shaner123]

And you'll most likely have to retake the new, 9 hour MCAT when you apply.

If I were you, I'll apply to DO schools right away so I can become a physician.

My mcat score is only 2 months old so it should be okay, right?

 

[Sean Lee]

My mcat score is only 2 months old so it should be okay, right?

The new MCAT starts in 2015, and from what you just said, you wont be applying for at least another 2 years. Will medical schools still accept the old MCAT when the new MCAT begins to be administered? No one knows for sure.

 

[Australopithekus]

@shaner123, I would advise you not to apply DO. You don't sound like you would be happy with a DO school, so why spend the money and time on something you don't want to do? You won't be happy with the school, and if it's professors detect your attitude toward osteopathic medicine, they probably won't exactly want you either.

That said, I think it would be a great idea to talk to a few DOs and maybe shadow one if they'll let you. I don't think a "personal preference" is an intelligent reason to restrict yourself from becoming a physician. There are some good reasons for becoming a MD rather than a DO, but you haven't provided one.

You said it yourself- you have a shot at some low-tier MD schools. I know a guy who got into a mid-tier MD school with a 3.4 and a 22 mcat; if he got in, you potentially could as well. Your chance just isn't that great. There's a lot to weigh here. Maybe $3000 in application costs isn't much to you. That's fine. What about the emotional toll of potentially getting 25 rejection letters? Is that worth it? Is possibly having to check the "reapplicant" box next year worth the risk?

Maybe it is to you, and that's OK. It just wouldn't be to me. I'm not an expert, though; I'm just a guy with a weak GPA and a solid MCAT who will probably be applying to some of the same schools you will. Still, I was going to apply last year, but decided to wait to improve my application, and I don't regret waiting. I'm much more hopeful this time around.

EDIT: I missed the last page somehow. Good choice, OP.

 

[shaner123]

The new MCAT starts in 2015, and from what you just said, you wont be applying for at least another 2 years. Will medical schools still accept the old MCAT when the new MCAT begins to be administered? No one knows for sure.

Oops I meant I'll be applying next year. Will they not take the old score?

 

[shaner123]

@shaner123, I would advise you not to apply DO. You don't sound like you would be happy with a DO school, so why spend the money and time on something you don't want to do? You won't be happy with the school, and if it's professors detect your attitude toward osteopathic medicine, they probably won't exactly want you either.

That said, I think it would be a great idea to talk to a few DOs and maybe shadow one if they'll let you. I don't think a "personal preference" is an intelligent reason to restrict yourself from becoming a physician. There are some good reasons for becoming a MD rather than a DO, but you haven't provided one.

You said it yourself- you have a shot at some low-tier MD schools. I know a guy who got into a mid-tier MD school with a 3.4 and a 22 mcat; if he got in, you potentially could as well. Your chance just isn't that great. There's a lot to weigh here. Maybe $3000 in application costs isn't much to you. That's fine. What about the emotional toll of potentially getting 25 rejection letters? Is that worth it? Is possibly having to check the "reapplicant" box next year worth the risk?

Maybe it is to you, and that's OK. It just wouldn't be to me. I'm not an expert, though; I'm just a guy with a weak GPA and a solid MCAT who will probably be applying to some of the same schools you will. Still, I was going to apply last year, but decided to wait to improve my application, and I don't regret waiting. I'm much more hopeful this QUOTE]

 

[shaner123]

Thanks. So it makes sense to take one year off and then I would have a chance at MD schools?

 

[Sean Lee]

Oops I meant I'll be applying next year. Will they not take the old score?

Though none of us knows for sure, I can almost guarantee you that most/all medical schools will still accept the old MCAT if you apply next year. But don't quote me on that!

Let's call in the cavalry:

@Goro
@LizzyM
@Catalystik
@gyngyn

 

[Goro]

Your MCAT is good as long as it fits withing the school's expiration date. OP is fine on that score.

Though none of us knows for sure, I can almost guarantee you that most/all medical schools will still accept the old MCAT if you apply next year. But don't quote me on that!

Let's call in the cavalry:

@Goro
@LizzyM
@Catalystik
@gyngyn

 

[candbgirl]

Thanks. So it makes sense to take one year off and then I would have a chance at MD schools?

Depends on what all you do in the next year.

 

[WillburCobb]

Thanks. So it makes sense to take one year off and then I would have a chance at MD schools?

If you're gung-ho on MD your plan is good though I would say stay undergrad and build up your GPA instead of grad school (grad GPA will do you little if anything). If you just took the MCAT it should be good for two more years for most schools, beyond that start prepping for a retake. Also, keep building those ECs.

tl;dr - build your undergrad GPA and ECs over the next 1-2 years and you'll have much better odds.

 

[shaner123]

If you're gung-ho on MD your plan is good though I would say stay undergrad and build up your GPA instead of grad school (grad GPA will do you little if anything). If you just took the MCAT it should be good for two more years for most schools, beyond that start prepping for a retake. Also, keep building those ECs.

tl;dr - build your undergrad GPA and ECs over the next 1-2 years and you'll have much better odds.

The grad school is for the gap year. I have all next year for my grades since I'm a current junior. I have a lot of plans for ECs. I was going to look a TA position as well.

 

[WillburCobb]

The grad school is for the gap year. I have all next year for my grades since I'm a current junior. I have a lot of plans for ECs. I was going to look a TA position as well.

I realize that. I'm saying if yore going to take a gap year or so to try and better your chances, your efforts are best spent focused on your undergrad GPA; even if you graduate.

 

[tonymarc]

"Well I shouldn't have even posted here since I'm going to just apply anyway. Thanks for the advice but I'll talk to you in October when there first acceptances are sent out."


This right here!!!
You should really reconsider being a physician with that attitude. Everyone has just been trying to help and you haven't been the least bit thankful. Sheesh

 

[shopsteward]

OP: I'm glad you are taking the extra year. If you can knock out a 4.0 gpa in your senior year, it will raise your overall gpa and give you an excellent upward trend. There are MD schools who reward an upward trend like that, and you will also get a better response by not being a reapplicant but showing you have had the maturity to take the time necessary to demonstrate a solid turn-around to adcoms.

Plus, a 4.0 gpa in your senior year at undergrad is a good indicator of your ability to do well in med school.

A very inspiring thread featuring someone in a similar position to you who improved their grades and got into MD school is this one-

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/so-how-am-i-doing-right-track.595794/

 

[shaner123]

I realize that. I'm saying if yore going to take a gap year or so to try and better your chances, your efforts are best spent focused on your undergrad GPA; even if you graduate.

Oh okay I understand what you mean. Should I stick to just science courses?

 

[shaner123]

"Well I shouldn't have even posted here since I'm going to just apply anyway. Thanks for the advice but I'll talk to you in October when there first acceptances are sent out."


This right here!!!
You should really reconsider being a physician with that attitude. Everyone has just been trying to help and you haven't been the least bit thankful. Sheesh

That was awhile ago and I understood I didn't listen to advice. If you read further I am now taking the solid advice given.

 

[shaner123]

OP: I'm glad you are taking the extra year. If you can knock out a 4.0 gpa in your senior year, it will raise your overall gpa and give you an excellent upward trend. There are MD schools who reward an upward trend like that, and you will also get a better response by not being a reapplicant but showing you have had the maturity to take the time necessary to demonstrate a solid turn-around to adcoms.

Plus, a 4.0 gpa in your senior year at undergrad is a good indicator of your ability to do well in med school.

A very inspiring thread featuring someone in a similar position to you who improved their grades and got into MD school is this one-

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/so-how-am-i-doing-right-track.595794/

Which schools reward the upward trend more than others? I understand what you mean. Should I take normal course loads or like >20 credits per semester?