Need advice: Bad grades, post-bacc, gap year

[MiniR]

Hi everyone happy new year!
Looking for advice on how to spend my gap year(s), fixing holes in my app, and if this post-bacc plan is good.

One main issue is grades, especially sGPA, so thought I'd do a post-bacc in my city? The undergrad classes this post-bacc offers are mostly classes I've taken before, so I thought taking those wouldn't be very useful. However they also offer graduate level classes for post-bacc students so I've enrolled in those to show I can handle tougher science courses. Courses have not started yet.

My info:
- Graduated. Taking 1 gap year right now, then applying this June (so 2 gap years total)
- ORM
- cGPA: 3.55
- sGPA: 3.2-ish
- MCAT: 515 (127/129/130/129)
- 3 semesters clinical research (~300+ hrs). Will continue this.
- No bench research, no publications
- 2.5 yrs volunteer EMT (~300+ hrs). Will continue this.
- EMT examiner + helping train EMT students
- 4 yrs significant leadership in 1 student group
- Leadership roles/Volunteering in other student groups/non-campus organizations
- 1.5 yrs hospital info desk volunteer (~200 hrs)
- Retook Gen Chem II (C --> A)
- C+ in Statistics, upper division Neuroscience class, and O. Chem II
- Not much of an upward trend necessarily. Just flat with a dip sophomore yr
- No shadowing yet (Covid) but hoping to do some soon

Post-bacc:
- Enrolled in the following graduate level classes: Embryology, Histology, Biochem II, and Pharmacology
- Total 10 credits. Is this enough?
- However, not sure if pharmacology is considered science/BCPM so it might not be that helpful in showing my capabilities?
- Would any other classes be better to take?
- Should I be taking some of the undergrad post-bacc classes that I haven't taken before (ex: Microbiology)?
- Would SMP or something else have been better?
- Will be taking more post-bacc classes in summer term as well, but will have submitted primaries and secondaries by the time those classes end and grades come out, so thought I should put more stock into the spring semester classes

Haven't used SDN much so let me know if I should be posting this in some other forum as well/instead. Thanks in advance!

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[Grifalicious]

Hey MiniR! Welcome to SDN. Your application looks very similar to mine, but you're stronger in several areas than I was. I took a couple gap years (graduated in 2018, applied this cycle) and I also did a post-bacc at my local university. Congratulations on your MCAT score! A strong and balanced performance like yours does a lot to assuage any doubts schools might have about your preparedness, especially when paired with post-bacc work. I had a similar grade trend, however, I graduated with much lower GPAs (both cGPA and sGPA about 0.5 below yours).

For my post-bacc, I took the following classes:

• Biochemistry
• Cell Biology
• Developmental Anatomy
• Genomics
• Genes and Development
• Immunology
• Microbiology
• Bio-medical Ethics

The most important part of the post-bacc is that your GPA is as close to a 4.0 as possible. I believe I took about 25 credit hours and even with all As/A+s it only moved my GPA up ~.15. You just want to have a strong performance now, so schools will focus on your current grades and not on your old ones. However, be prepared to address your academic performance in interviews.

I don't think you need an SMP. Your combination of GPA and MCAT is probably high enough to net you DO interviews/acceptances currently, but a strong performance in a post-bacc would make it more of a sure thing and allow you to apply to low-tier MD/your state schools. Good luck with your application preparation and let me know if you have any questions!

 

[unexpectedcomplications]

You will very likely get into several DO schools without any post-bacc, just get some shadowing experience esp with a DO. Most you e-mail/call will not even give you the time of day. But look for OMM trained DO PCPs because those will probably be the most welcoming to pre-meds interested in DO schools (and their LOR most valuable).

 

[Goro]

Hi everyone happy new year!
Looking for advice on how to spend my gap year(s), fixing holes in my app, and if this post-bacc plan is good.

One main issue is grades, especially sGPA, so thought I'd do a post-bacc in my city? The undergrad classes this post-bacc offers are mostly classes I've taken before, so I thought taking those wouldn't be very useful. However they also offer graduate level classes for post-bacc students so I've enrolled in those to show I can handle tougher science courses. Courses have not started yet.

My info:
- Graduated. Taking 1 gap year right now, then applying this June (so 2 gap years total)
- ORM
- cGPA: 3.55
- sGPA: 3.2-ish
- MCAT: 515 (127/129/130/129)
- 3 semesters clinical research (~300+ hrs). Will continue this.
- No bench research, no publications
- 2.5 yrs volunteer EMT (~300+ hrs). Will continue this.
- EMT examiner + helping train EMT students
- 4 yrs significant leadership in 1 student group
- Leadership roles/Volunteering in other student groups/non-campus organizations
- 1.5 yrs hospital info desk volunteer (~200 hrs)
- Retook Gen Chem II (C --> A)
- C+ in Statistics, upper division Neuroscience class, and O. Chem II
- Not much of an upward trend necessarily. Just flat with a dip sophomore yr
- No shadowing yet (Covid) but hoping to do some soon

Post-bacc:
- Enrolled in the following graduate level classes: Embryology, Histology, Biochem II, and Pharmacology
- Total 10 credits. Is this enough?
- However, not sure if pharmacology is considered science/BCPM so it might not be that helpful in showing my capabilities?
- Would any other classes be better to take?
- Should I be taking some of the undergrad post-bacc classes that I haven't taken before (ex: Microbiology)?
- Would SMP or something else have been better?
- Will be taking more post-bacc classes in summer term as well, but will have submitted primaries and secondaries by the time those classes end and grades come out, so thought I should put more stock into the spring semester classes

Haven't used SDN much so let me know if I should be posting this in some other forum as well/instead. Thanks in advance!

Read this:

• Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[MiniR]

You will very likely get into several DO schools without any post-bacc, just get some shadowing experience esp with a DO. Most you e-mail/call will not even give you the time of day. But look for OMM trained DO PCPs because those will probably be the most welcoming to pre-meds interested in DO schools (and their LOR most valuable).

I definitely plan on shadowing with a DO, but thank you for the more specific advice!

 

[MiniR]

Hey MiniR! Welcome to SDN. Your application looks very similar to mine, but you're stronger in several areas than I was. I took a couple gap years (graduated in 2018, applied this cycle) and I also did a post-bacc at my local university. Congratulations on your MCAT score! A strong and balanced performance like yours does a lot to assuage any doubts schools might have about your preparedness, especially when paired with post-bacc work. I had a similar grade trend, however, I graduated with much lower GPAs (both cGPA and sGPA about 0.5 below yours).

For my post-bacc, I took the following classes:

• Biochemistry
• Cell Biology
• Developmental Anatomy
• Genomics
• Genes and Development
• Immunology
• Microbiology
• Bio-medical Ethics

The most important part of the post-bacc is that your GPA is as close to a 4.0 as possible. I believe I took about 25 credit hours and even with all As/A+s it only moved my GPA up ~.15. You just want to have a strong performance now, so schools will focus on your current grades and not on your old ones. However, be prepared to address your academic performance in interviews.

I don't think you need an SMP. Your combination of GPA and MCAT is probably high enough to net you DO interviews/acceptances currently, but a strong performance in a post-bacc would make it more of a sure thing and allow you to apply to low-tier MD/your state schools. Good luck with your application preparation and let me know if you have any questions!

Thank you so much for the detailed post! I hope to take immunology and micro as well. Yes, my GPA definitely will not change much from this either as I have too many undergrad credits. Moreso just hoping to show I have improved and can handle challenging classes. For the grades, I have nothing to blame but myself and lack of effort put in. So any advice on how to address the academic performance in interviews?

 

[Grifalicious]

Thank you so much for the detailed post! I hope to take immunology and micro as well. Yes, my GPA definitely will not change much from this either as I have too many undergrad credits. Moreso just hoping to show I have improved and can handle challenging classes. For the grades, I have nothing to blame but myself and lack of effort put in. So any advice on how to address the academic performance in interviews?

I tried to find ways to explain my performance without coming up with excuses, if that makes sense. They really just want to see you taking responsibility for your grades and for you to speak about what exactly you did to improve. For example, I wrote a lot in my application about how I tended to spread myself too thinly trying to do everything and I didn't really like to seek help, even when I really needed it. I used my performance in my post-bacc to talk about determination and tenacity. Essentially, you'll want to make it very clear that you have learned your lesson and you are ready to handle the rigors of med school.

 

[MiniR]

I tried to find ways to explain my performance without coming up with excuses, if that makes sense. They really just want to see you taking responsibility for your grades and for you to speak about what exactly you did to improve. For example, I wrote a lot in my application about how I tended to spread myself too thinly trying to do everything and I didn't really like to seek help, even when I really needed it. I used my performance in my post-bacc to talk about determination and tenacity. Essentially, you'll want to make it very clear that you have learned your lesson and you are ready to handle the rigors of med school.

All of that is 100% applicable to my situation as well; I'll be sure to talk about those points. Thank you so much!!

 

[mike3442]

Hi everyone! I hope all of you are well. Kinda new here and wanted to see if anyone could give input or advice for my current situation. I graduated in May of 2020 on the pre-med track while playing D1 basketball all 4 years. I finished without taking Organic 2 or Physics (which I understand some medical schools require that I take these prior). Following graduation I have been working as a scribe for about 7 months now. My plan from here (subject to change with input) is to enroll in a post bacc program for the fall of 2021 in order to increase my undergrad GPA. Finances are an issue though so if anyone knows of any programs/options that could help I would love your input on that as well as this plan. I understand my credentials aren’t competitive so please feel free to be as honest as possible. Any pointers and incite that you can provide with my path would be appreciated.



Info:

• MCAT: 490, planning on taking it again late May (Might push it to a later date)
• Undergrad GPA: 3.08
• sGPA: 2.8
• Scribe hours: Roughly 960 hrs. Will most likely continue this throughout the Summer
• Shadowing: Ortho and Trauma surgeon for a total of 110 hours

 

[Grifalicious]

Hi everyone! I hope all of you are well. Kinda new here and wanted to see if anyone could give input or advice for my current situation. I graduated in May of 2020 on the pre-med track while playing D1 basketball all 4 years. I finished without taking Organic 2 or Physics (which I understand some medical schools require that I take these prior). Following graduation I have been working as a scribe for about 7 months now. My plan from here (subject to change with input) is to enroll in a post bacc program for the fall of 2021 in order to increase my undergrad GPA. Finances are an issue though so if anyone knows of any programs/options that could help I would love your input on that as well as this plan. I understand my credentials aren’t competitive so please feel free to be as honest as possible. Any pointers and incite that you can provide with my path would be appreciated.



Info:

• MCAT: 490, planning on taking it again late May (Might push it to a later date)
• Undergrad GPA: 3.08
• sGPA: 2.8
• Scribe hours: Roughly 960 hrs. Will most likely continue this throughout the Summer
• Shadowing: Ortho and Trauma surgeon for a total of 110 hours

Hey Mike! I would strongly recommend reading the thread that @Goro wrote and linked above. It provides a lot of useful advice for premeds in your position-- a position that I found myself in a few years ago. I graduated in 2018 and was also a 4 year D1 athlete. My GPA was a 3.08 and my sGPA was even lower than yours, about a 2.6. If finances are an issue, I would recommend doing a DIY post-bacc at a local 4 year university. I took 8 courses over a couple years and paid about 2k a semester in tuition and fees. The courses that I took are listed in one of the earlier posts in this thread.

Your hours as a scribe and shadowing both look good. The schools where you can apply will largely depend on your MCAT. If you score in the low 500s up to 505/506, apply to your state MD schools and DO schools. There are some lists floating around of good DO schools to apply to. You will also need to make sure that you have a physician LOR for DO schools (many prefer a DO letter, but will accept MD). If you score closer to 510+, shift your list more towards MD schools that are open to reinvention and DO schools. I would not take the MCAT until your practice scores are at least in the low to mid 500s.

You will most likely have to take Organic 2 and physics for most schools. Some will allow you to substitute biochem for Organic 2, but a lot will want 8 hours of Organic w/ labs. It might take you a couple years to get your application ready, but the wait will be worth it. When you are ready to apply, make sure to submit as soon as possible and focus on writing strong essays. In my experience, adcoms loved to talk about my athletics, especially the lessons that I have learned and can apply to medicine (n = 1, of course). Good luck!

 

[Goro]

Post-bacc:
- Enrolled in the following graduate level classes: Embryology, Histology, Biochem II, and Pharmacology
- Total 10 credits. Is this enough?
- However, not sure if pharmacology is considered science/BCPM so it might not be that helpful in showing my capabilities?
- Would any other classes be better to take?
- Should I be taking some of the undergrad post-bacc classes that I haven't taken before (ex: Microbiology)?
- Would SMP or something else have been better?
- Will be taking more post-bacc classes in summer term as well, but will have submitted primaries and secondaries by the time those classes end and grades come out, so thought I should put more stock into the spring semester classes

Haven't used SDN much so let me know if I should be posting this in some other forum as well/instead. Thanks in advance!

10 credits isn't enough data points to show reinvention. You need 30

Take upper level science classes that mimic a med school curriculum. I have a list in my post on reinvention for pre-meds.

SMPs and post-bacs both have their pluses and minuses. I lean to the former when given ata med school with good linakge as it's the back door to med school.

You're not ready to apply. You do so when you have the best possible app.

 

[mike3442]

Hey Mike! I would strongly recommend reading the thread that @Goro wrote and linked above. It provides a lot of useful advice for premeds in your position-- a position that I found myself in a few years ago. I graduated in 2018 and was also a 4 year D1 athlete. My GPA was a 3.08 and my sGPA was even lower than yours, about a 2.6. If finances are an issue, I would recommend doing a DIY post-bacc at a local 4 year university. I took 8 courses over a couple years and paid about 2k a semester in tuition and fees. The courses that I took are listed in one of the earlier posts in this thread.

Your hours as a scribe and shadowing both look good. The schools where you can apply will largely depend on your MCAT. If you score in the low 500s up to 505/506, apply to your state MD schools and DO schools. There are some lists floating around of good DO schools to apply to. You will also need to make sure that you have a physician LOR for DO schools (many prefer a DO letter, but will accept MD). If you score closer to 510+, shift your list more towards MD schools that are open to reinvention and DO schools. I would not take the MCAT until your practice scores are at least in the low to mid 500s.

You will most likely have to take Organic 2 and physics for most schools. Some will allow you to substitute biochem for Organic 2, but a lot will want 8 hours of Organic w/ labs. It might take you a couple years to get your application ready, but the wait will be worth it. When you are ready to apply, make sure to submit as soon as possible and focus on writing strong essays. In my experience, adcoms loved to talk about my athletics, especially the lessons that I have learned and can apply to medicine (n = 1, of course). Good luck!

Hey! Thanks for all of this advice and great detail. I really appreciate it! Good luck to you as well!

 

[deleted1066189]

OP, you'll definitely have a great shot at DO if you apply broadly. But you're gonna need a bunch of shadowing before you do

 

[dial1010usa]

Have you applied to DO/MD schools at all? You don't need a gap year. For DO, your gpa are ok as your MCAT gonna make it up for that. If you are not working then you should add more science classes. When time comes to apply add only one school so your app get verified and take more science classes doing summer time and once your summer grade comes in then add more schools to your app. Hope that make sense. As Goro mention 10 units are not sufficient. You can do undergrad science classes which you haven't taken yet if you think of any.
All the best!!!