NAVY SAR

[DrZogg]

Evening All.

I'm very interested in being involved with prehospital care as a doc, and particularly interested in SAR operations.

I'm really unsure what, if any, role a military physician has in this process. Especially in the Navy. From my terrible research, it seems SAR operations are primary AF via PJs but I know the Navy has SARCs and rescue swimmers. Furthermore, I'm really not sure what a physician's role is in this process. I know civilian side there would be a medical director but I'm unsure of the military side (HSPSer here).

Can someone point me down the right path to researching this? Ideally I'd be an EM physician and on the side helping out the boys in SAR or medics since no where in America will send Docs out to the field.

Thanks all.

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[DrMetal]

Evening All.

I'm very interested in being involved with prehospital care as a doc, and particularly interested in SAR operations.

I'm really unsure what, if any, role a military physician has in this process. Especially in the Navy. From my terrible research, it seems SAR operations are primary AF via PJs but I know the Navy has SARCs and rescue swimmers. Furthermore, I'm really not sure what a physician's role is in this process.

Almost none whatsoever. Then don't go to medical school.

SAR operations are run by line personnel. Any medical care done on scene is for the purposes of stabilization and transport back to a higher level of care (where the physicians are). This on-scene care can be done a well-skilled corpsman. Your role as a doctor belongs in the rear, ready to receive and further treat the patient at your MTF (or equivalent).

 

[DrZogg]

Almost none whatsoever. Then don't go to medical school.

Too late

In the civilian world, there is a medical director for these operations. I know PJ Medcast is run by a doc, who I assume helps train the PJs.

I'm interested in being involved in SAR operations but I realize that it would be a minor role. I'm hoping to help from an educationial standpoint or something of the sorts. I find it hard to believe that SAR operations would not have a physician involved in some capacity.

 

[DrMetal]

Too late

In the civilian world, there is a medical director for these operations. I know PJ Medcast is run by a doc, who I assume helps train the PJs.

I'm interested in being involved in SAR operations but I realize that it would be a minor role. I'm hoping to help from an educationial standpoint or something of the sorts. I find it hard to believe that SAR operations would not have a physician involved in some capacity.

If you want to teach and train, that's fine. If you expect to be the guy jumping out of helicopters, that's likely not going to happen.

 

[DrZogg]

Yup that's it. Essentially I have a prehospital background, love the outdoors and want to be involved as much as possible.

I realize that at my stage in life and education I will never be out in the field.

What direction should I go into researching this in the military? Thanks.

 

[DrMetal]

Yup that's it. Essentially I have a prehospital background, love the outdoors and want to be involved as much as possible.

I realize that at my stage in life and education I will never be out in the field.

What direction should I go into researching this in the military? Thanks.

You'd likely do an Emergency Medicine residency. I know there's civilian fellowships after EM in pre-hospital care (ambulance management, etc) and wildness medicine. Whether or not the Navy lets you do said fellowships (at any given time) is hard to say. When the time comes, you can certainly try and see what happens. For now, get into an EM residency.

 

[DeadCactus]

Physicians with these groups provide a combination of medical directorship, training, and primary care. The enlisted do the cool stuff but you might get to tangentially be involved. There's no magic to getting these positions.

1. Be a good physician. Ideally in EM or FM. Bonus points for an EMS fellowship.
2. Be reliable and easy to work with.
3. Network.
4. Luck into a chance to prove yourself to the right people.

 

[DrZogg]

Thanks all!

 

[armytrainingsir]

Join the navy! 😂

These Speedy New Navy Medical Ships Are Designed with the Pacific in Mind

Tucked inside the recently passed DoD budget for 2023 is funding for a new kind of Navy medical ship – one built to operate more like an ambulance than a hospital.

www.military.com

EM, orthopedic surgery or general surgery will get you the closest to the ‘action’ as a physician, and as mentioned above, with a bit of luck, into a planning/oversight role.

Of the three, general surgery with a trauma surgery fellowship would be my pick. As a side note, I have an AD acquaintance that told me army thinking seems to be gradually moving away from EM somewhat as they aren’t nearly as capable in the field as big army once imagined.

 

[Onefellswoop87]

Join the navy! 😂

These Speedy New Navy Medical Ships Are Designed with the Pacific in Mind

Tucked inside the recently passed DoD budget for 2023 is funding for a new kind of Navy medical ship – one built to operate more like an ambulance than a hospital.

www.military.com

EM, orthopedic surgery or general surgery will get you the closest to the ‘action’ as a physician, and as mentioned above, with a bit of luck, into a planning/oversight role.

Of the three, general surgery with a trauma surgery fellowship would be my pick. As a side note, I have an AD acquaintance that told me army thinking seems to be gradually moving away from EM somewhat as they aren’t nearly as capable in the field as big army once imagined.

Spoken like a surgeon . . . forgetting about anesthesiology (apologize for the dig if you are not a surgeon, I can’t remember)
Two of those three don’t function too well in the OR without us. It’s a navy critical wartime specialty and is very deployable. How much time you’ll spend in the OR is deployment specific (I’ve know some who were very busy and some who never saw a surgery in a deployment)

But do OP’s question, if you are interested in prehospital care, EM with a fellowship will get you oversight of that (in or out of the military). But you won’t be doing the prehospital care, that’s for paramedics in the civilian world or specialized medics/corpsmen.

 

[armytrainingsir]

I am a surgeon,lol
And no dig taken because you’re right, surgery without anesthesia sucks.

No idea about the navy, but the army has left MD anesthesia practically in the dust and is all about deploying CRNAs.

 

[Onefellswoop87]

I am a surgeon,lol
And no dig taken because you’re right, surgery without anesthesia sucks.

No idea about the navy, but the army has left MD anesthesia practically in the dust and is all about deploying CRNAs.

It’s odd. Anesthesiologists and CRNA have near identical credentials in hospitals but some billets are for CRNAs (fleet surgical teams) where as others are for anesthesiologists (those with the marines for example). Doesn’t seem the a rhyme or reason to it, outside of that’s the way it’s been done.

 

[alpinism]

Hate to say it but I did SAR in the Air Force prior to medicine and there's very little if any involvement of military physicians.

First of all missions are extremely rare events even during wartime and most places will only have about one a month at most.

Second of all missions usually just involve the recovery of downed pilots most of whom don't actually require any medical care.

Third of all missions will typically in most cases only need to perform simple first aid treatment for non life threatening injuries.

Realistically speaking the missions are not anywhere near as exciting in real life despite what people see in the movies.

 

[pgg]

Evening All.

I'm very interested in being involved with prehospital care as a doc, and particularly interested in SAR operations.

I'm really unsure what, if any, role a military physician has in this process. Especially in the Navy. From my terrible research, it seems SAR operations are primary AF via PJs but I know the Navy has SARCs and rescue swimmers. Furthermore, I'm really not sure what a physician's role is in this process. I know civilian side there would be a medical director but I'm unsure of the military side (HSPSer here).

Can someone point me down the right path to researching this? Ideally I'd be an EM physician and on the side helping out the boys in SAR or medics since no where in America will send Docs out to the field.

Thanks all.

Honestly your odds of doing that kind of work are probably better as a civilian.

I knew an active duty physician (a pediatric anesthesiologist) who somehow knew someone in the local civilian EMS system, and somehow wound up doing some volunteer work with their police/SWAT teams. He'd schedule weekend or other occasional call shifts during which he would respond to calls with them. Spent some time at the firing range with their teams participating in their training.

I don't think him being in the Navy was any sort of "in" with them ... in fact I got the impression that if he wasn't in the Navy he'd have been able to do more.

 

[Correlate Clinically]

I know a few MDs who have done medical training for the AF equivalent, but none are involved in active ops. Probably some surgeons involved in the training somewhere too, but the guys I knew were ED or flt med and I've never had a reason to ask more. It was an extra duty for the guys I knew.

I worked with some while deployed, but no physicians were riding out with them. And by worked with, I mean I got along with them, helped them out once or twice, and they dropped off trauma from time to time (the PJs usually without radioing ahead).