Navy FUBAR

[Monty Python]

I'm in the middle of applying for Navy HPSP, mainly because I've already got lots of years in the system towards my 20. Also because I'm ineligible for any federal student loans, due to my income in 2005 as a fulltime CRNA. (I guess the fact that I would be making zero in 2006 as a medical student has no bearing on the federal loan decision makers.)

Before starting the pile of HPSP paperwork, I made sure BUMED would give me an age waiver. I had it in writing from the O-6 who controlled (past tense) HPSP scholarships: "no problem." In fact, he said (and I quote): "Age waivers are not a problem. In fact the only thing not waiverable is death, and we're working on that as well."

I felt good about my HPSP chances, especially considering how 50% of Navy HPSP dollars were left on the table last August, unused.

I recently found out my friendly O-6 has transferred, and his replacement told me today "BUMED is not in favor of age waivers."

OK Navy, you're 50% manned in the HPSP pipeline, you have a motivated applicant with lots of prior military service (currently drilling as an O-4 NC reservist) and you play Indian-giver with him.

I'm loathe to go $250,000 in hock with private loans, or take that out of my 401(k) and sacrifice all those tax-deferred earnings over the next eight years (as med student and resident). What to do? I'm 49 and don't have five decades of potential private practice opportunity in front of me, to make up the losses from the 401(k).

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[backrow]

I'm 49

You Sir, are crazy. But best of luck on the new adventure.

 

[MoosePilot]

Where'd you get your figure of $250K from? That seems high.

 

[Heeed!]

I'm 49

And I thought Moose was old!!

 

[Monty Python]

You Sir, are crazy. But best of luck on the new adventure.

Yeah, if I had a nickle for every time ...........

When news of my acceptance started circulating around my ORs, most physicians were very warm, congratulatory, and enthusiastic. A couple inquired about my age, and at the conclusion of the conversation urged me to "press on, full speed ahead."

One particular physician (my wife's gyn, in fact) was doing a vag hyst when the circulator RN told him. I was at the head of the table as his CRNA. When Dr. V. heard the news he put down his instruments, looked me straight in the eye, and yelled, "Are you F***ING NUTS ??? Have you lost your F***ING MIND?" (He has this certain tongue-in-cheek OR demeanor. Outside the OR he is the perfect gentleman). A few minutes later he started asking me objective questions about the logistics of my planned adventure. He listened calmly and at the end of the case said, "Best of luck, Son." That's the first time he's ever called me that in 3 years of doing his anesthesia.

 

[Mirror Form]

When Dr. V. heard the news he put down his instruments, looked me straight in the eye, and yelled, "Are you F***ING NUTS ??? Have you lost your F***ING MIND?"

My thoughts exactly. You realize that you won't be finished training until you're 57 y/o, right? It just doesn't seem worth it to me, unless you plan to put off retirement until you're 75 or something.

Although, I guess you've already had this conversation a few times. Still though, you're crazy!

 

[Monty Python]

Where'd you get your figure of $250K from? That seems high.

Private school tuition $30K/yr
Living expenses, books, child support $30K/yr

 

[backrow]

I have to give you credit man. You've decided to pursue something and you're going for it. Obviously you've done your research and talked with your family about it, so I say more power to you. I'm not sure I would have the balls to take up something new at that age.

As an aside are you looking to become an anesthesiologist or are you looking to change fields completely?

 

[Monty Python]

My thoughts exactly. You realize that you won't be finished training until you're 57 y/o, right? It just doesn't seem worth it to me, unless you plan to put off retirement until you're 75 or something.

Although, I guess you've already had this conversation a few times. Still though, you're crazy!

Sledge (and others): I appreciate all input, both pros and cons.

Sledge to specifically answer your question (above), I refer you to your own signature line on your posts:

== >> Be bold and courageous. When you look back on your life, you'll regret the things you didn't do more than the ones you did.
-H Jackson Brown Jr

Respectfully, that pretty much sums it up.

 

[MoosePilot]

Private school tuition $30K/yr
Living expenses, books, child support $30K/yr

Sounds like reasonable estimates.

I agree that if it's what you want to do, you should. I would. You'll be that old in that amount of time anyway, don't let it drive your career decisions.

I like the surgeon's response and think it's indicative of what you'll experience.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Sounds like reasonable estimates.

I agree that if it's what you want to do, you should. I would. You'll be that old in that amount of time anyway, don't let it drive your career decisions.

I like the surgeon's response and think it's indicative of what you'll experience.

You might as well do what you like. As an aside, I'm giving serious thought to not retiring even if I can; my collected observation is that my healthiest and best adjusted elderly patients are the ones who choose to work long past the time in life when their peers have retired.

Is there an alternative to an expensive school for you? Even $5,000 less per year will have a huge effect on the back end.

 

[Monty Python]

I have to give you credit man. You've decided to pursue something and you're going for it. Obviously you've done your research and talked with your family about it, so I say more power to you. I'm not sure I would have the balls to take up something new at that age.

As an aside are you looking to become an anesthesiologist or are you looking to change fields completely?

Depends which day of the week you catch me. Sometimes I think "yes" because I've been doing it since 1993, I think I'm not bad at it, and I enjoy all the enjoyable aspects. Other days I think I don't want to spend another 20+ years in the OR.

 

[backrow]

i think if you choose to do anesthesia you should "forget" to tell the other residents that you were a CRNA and then let them wonder how the hell you know so much. I think that would be So wrong, but yet so funny. Probably wouldn't last long though as they'd figure it out, but I would be interested to hear from you during residency to see how if it was easy for you (even though by then you would have been out of the OR for a few years).

 

[bogatyr]

I'm in the middle of applying for Navy HPSP, mainly because I've already got lots of years in the system towards my 20. Also because I'm ineligible for any federal student loans, due to my income in 2005 as a fulltime CRNA. (I guess the fact that I would be making zero in 2006 as a medical student has no bearing on the federal loan decision makers.)

Before starting the pile of HPSP paperwork, I made sure BUMED would give me an age waiver. I had it in writing from the O-6 who controlled (past tense) HPSP scholarships: "no problem." In fact, he said (and I quote): "Age waivers are not a problem. In fact the only thing not waiverable is death, and we're working on that as well."

I felt good about my HPSP chances, especially considering how 50% of Navy HPSP dollars were left on the table last August, unused.

I recently found out my friendly O-6 has transferred, and his replacement told me today "BUMED is not in favor of age waivers."

OK Navy, you're 50% manned in the HPSP pipeline, you have a motivated applicant with lots of prior military service (currently drilling as an O-4 NC reservist) and you play Indian-giver with him.

I'm loathe to go $250,000 in hock with private loans, or take that out of my 401(k) and sacrifice all those tax-deferred earnings over the next eight years (as med student and resident). What to do? I'm 49 and don't have five decades of potential private practice opportunity in front of me, to make up the losses from the 401(k).

Your income only disqualifies you from subsidized federal stafford loans, you can still take out unsubsidized stafford loans up to the amount of your school's budget. If you are a CRNA then you can "moonlight" during medschool and cover nearly all your expenses. During years 1,2, and 4 you should be able to work at least 50% FTE (even if you didn't skip class and only worked evenings and weekends), especially since you can study sitting on the stool, or get one-on-one tutoring/pimping from the surgeon.