Nasal Flu Mist not effective

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Unchained

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Nasal flu mist has been pulled from the market for its lack of efficacy. The CDC has determined that it is only 3% effective despite Astra Zeneca claims that it is 48% effective. The only thing that shocks me about this is that the CDC admitted this. Astra Zeneca must have forgot to send their lobbying check to the CDC. Foolish medical professionals will continue recommending the flu shot until they admit in a few years that the others don't work either.

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Out of curiosity, do you believe that any vaccines are effective or are you just against the flu shot?
 
Foolish medical professionals will continue recommending the flu shot until they admit in a few years that the others don't work either.
The same data that found flu mist had 3% efficacy found that the shots had 63% efficacy.
 
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FYI: I don't think it has been removed from the market, yet. It just will not be recommended if the CDC director okays the advisory panel's conclusion.
 
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The same data that found flu mist had 3% efficacy found that the shots had 63% efficacy.
Read between the lines, man. The flu shot's true efficacy is 0%, so the flu mist is even worse.
 
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It's very nice to get some validation for what I have been teaching my students and patients from such an unlikely place. I'm surprised a brainwashed pharmacist hasn't defended flumist by saying that it saved 3% of the children so it is still worth it. You certainly cannot trust the studies which were performed by the company promoting their own product. I have to say this as though it's not common sense. It is not surprising given the quality of our educational system in the US though and the quality of the pharmacy grads today.
 
It's very nice to get some validation for what I have been teaching my students and patients from such an unlikely place. I'm surprised a brainwashed pharmacist hasn't defended flumist by saying that it saved 3% of the children so it is still worth it. You certainly cannot trust the studies which were performed by the company promoting their own product. I have to say this as though it's not common sense. It is not surprising given the quality of our educational system in the US though and the quality of the pharmacy grads today.

So nothing about the other flu shots effectiveness?
 
Unchained, you've posted 790 times. Have you ever addressed anything BESIDES vaccines? I'm looking to find some sort of evidence that you're actually a practicing pharmacist, and not just a really dedicated zealot pretending to be one to gain credibility.
 
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So nothing about the other flu shots effectiveness?

So Wagrxm wants to believe the CDC who let Bigpharma make their millions for years before merely recommending that Flumist not be used in the next flu shot season. I suppose Astra Zeneca's lobbying check was a little thin this season. Wagrxm you can just keep trusting them until they find shocking evidence in a few years that none of the flu shots are effective.
 
Unchained, you've posted 790 times. Have you ever addressed anything BESIDES vaccines? I'm looking to find some sort of evidence that you're actually a practicing pharmacist, and not just a really dedicated zealot pretending to be one to gain credibility.

I've actually posted 469 times. Keep looking. I've addressed other topics. Since you're supposedly a pharmacist can you explain the difference between Vaccine Efficacy and vaccine effectiveness? I've covered it before if you want to peruse my posts. It's very easy to brainwash this generation of pharmacists. They're depth of research goes as far as the headlines and maybe the first sentence. They believe everything corporate America tells them.
 
I've actually posted 469 times. Keep looking. I've addressed other topics. Since you're supposedly a pharmacist can you explain the difference between Vaccine Efficacy and vaccine effectiveness? I've covered it before if you want to peruse my posts. It's very easy to brainwash this generation of pharmacists. They're depth of research goes as far as the headlines and maybe the first sentence. They believe everything corporate America tells them.

So exactly what medicines do you dispense in good faith?
 
So Wagrxm wants to believe the CDC who let Bigpharma make their millions for years before merely recommending that Flumist not be used in the next flu shot season. I suppose Astra Zeneca's lobbying check was a little thin this season. Wagrxm you can just keep trusting them until they find shocking evidence in a few years that none of the flu shots are effective.

So did you miss that class when they talked about immunizations?

It's the saddest thing reading about a child dying because their horrible parents didn't immunize.
 
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It's very nice to get some validation for what I have been teaching my students and patients from such an unlikely place. I'm surprised a brainwashed pharmacist hasn't defended flumist by saying that it saved 3% of the children so it is still worth it. You certainly cannot trust the studies which were performed by the company promoting their own product. I have to say this as though it's not common sense. It is not surprising given the quality of our educational system in the US though and the quality of the pharmacy grads today.

Guess you missed it, huh?

SARCASM.jpg
 
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Guess you missed it, huh?

SARCASM.jpg

Momus, you should just stick to the financial thread. Go argue with someone about taking advantage of the Brexit. We all know you lead a miserable existence where you don't travel, have no friends and no fun. You have a lot of money though.
 
Momus, you should just stick to the financial thread. Go argue with someone about taking advantage of the Brexit. We all know you lead a miserable existence where you don't travel, have no friends and no fun. You have a lot of money though.
Maybe, you missed what I have been up to. Sorry, I'm not accepting applications for uneducated friends. In case you still don't get it, see my post above yours. Love to see everyone rips you a new one. Keep posting dumb sh1t. You are entertaining.
 
I've actually posted 469 times. Keep looking. I've addressed other topics. Since you're supposedly a pharmacist can you explain the difference between Vaccine Efficacy and vaccine effectiveness? I've covered it before if you want to peruse my posts. It's very easy to brainwash this generation of pharmacists. They're depth of research goes as far as the headlines and maybe the first sentence. They believe everything corporate America tells them.
I actually attempted to peruse your posts. I would love to be proven wrong on your post history - but you unfortunately block access to your profile, and I'm not going to open up random threads on a quest to find the elusive non-vaccine-related-Unchained post. Even my boredom has it's limits.
 
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I actually attempted to peruse your posts. I would love to be proven wrong on your post history - but you unfortunately block access to your profile, and I'm not going to open up random threads on a quest to find the elusive non-vaccine-related-Unchained post. Even my boredom has it's limits.

You can click his name then click on the # of messages. To summarize his posts: a whole bunch of posts decrying vaccines, some posts about how naturopathic medicines and Eastern therapies have done amazing things, and a few others about how he's trying to obtain a license to dispense medical marijuana.

So he's one of THOSE people.
 
So Wagrxm wants to believe the CDC who let Bigpharma make their millions for years before merely recommending that Flumist not be used in the next flu shot season. I suppose Astra Zeneca's lobbying check was a little thin this season. Wagrxm you can just keep trusting them until they find shocking evidence in a few years that none of the flu shots are effective.
As I said before the data the CDC used to provide us with the 3% effectiveness of the flu mist is the same data that says the flu shot had 63%. Why do you choose to believe the 3% numbers, but not the 63% numbers? Is it simply because one supports your bias and one doesn't?

You can click his name then click on the # of messages.
I get an error message when I click his name saying he limits who can view his profile.
 
I get an error message when I click his name saying he limits who can view his profile.

The popup with the link to the profile has a post count.
 
As I said before the data the CDC used to provide us with the 3% effectiveness of the flu mist is the same data that says the flu shot had 63%. Why do you choose to believe the 3% numbers, but not the 63% numbers? Is it simply because one supports your bias and one doesn't?


I get an error message when I click his name saying he limits who can view his profile.

I can't explain why ACIP decided to issue this recommendation on nasal flu mist. The politics, lobbying and money that go into the process can cloud the science. It's possible that Astra Zeneca paid to get an ineffective vaccine introduced in the first place. The CDC may have got so many complaints about its lack of efficacy that they had no choice but to downgrade it. It also may have been injuring children presenting a liability issue.
 
I can't explain why ACIP decided to issue this recommendation on nasal flu mist. The politics, lobbying and money that go into the process can cloud the science. It's possible that Astra Zeneca paid to get an ineffective vaccine introduced in the first place. The CDC may have got so many complaints about its lack of efficacy that they had no choice but to downgrade it. It also may have been injuring children presenting a liability issue.

You didn't answer the question, do you not believe the 63%?
 
I always wondered how effective it could be considering the majority of it falls out of the nostrils after administration.
 
And this is science. Usually right, sometimes wrong or even corrupted. It's difficult to find hard truth. True scientists don't mind being wrong and understand that it can still be an advancement. As pharmacists (not scientists) we would be more useful by viewing people not as patients or customers but as clients. We their advisors. If a 65 year old man doesn't see the benefit of a zostavax for himself I should view that with respect. It's his body. Crazy this all has to devolve into a blanket pro or con vaccine discussion. And don't get me started on climate change. The world is infinitely complex and dynamic. Stay humble and stay curious.
 
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And this is science. Usually right, sometimes wrong or even corrupted. It's difficult to find hard truth. True scientists don't mind being wrong and understand that it can still be an advancement. As pharmacists (not scientists) we would be more useful by viewing people not as patients or customers but as clients. We their advisors. If a 65 year old man doesn't see the benefit of a zostavax for himself I should view that with respect. It's his body. Crazy this all has to devolve into a blanket pro or con vaccine discussion. And don't get me started on climate change. The world is infinitely complex and dynamic. Stay humble and stay curious.

Well said. You speak with wisdom.
 
And this is science. Usually right, sometimes wrong or even corrupted. It's difficult to find hard truth. True scientists don't mind being wrong and understand that it can still be an advancement. As pharmacists (not scientists) we would be more useful by viewing people not as patients or customers but as clients. We their advisors. If a 65 year old man doesn't see the benefit of a zostavax for himself I should view that with respect. It's his body. Crazy this all has to devolve into a blanket pro or con vaccine discussion. And don't get me started on climate change. The world is infinitely complex and dynamic. Stay humble and stay curious.
When we talk about anti-vaccination people we're not talking about adults who don't want zostavax or pneumovax, we're talking about idiot parents who refuse to vaccinate their children.

Its well known that all vaccines given later in life don't work that well. For zostavax in particular you see a steep decline in effectiveness every decade you delay.

What is fact is that childhood vaccines work, they work well, and they save lives. If you disagree with this basic premise, you're just flat out wrong (generic you, not you specifically). The flu vaccine at most ages is more debatable, though the data is very strongly in favor of using it. Its certainly more effective (with fewer side effects) than Tamiflu...
 
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jesus...every year we get a thread like this.
 
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And don't get me started on climate change.

What are trying to say, Bubba? You mean anthropogenic global warming is a scam for a global carbon tax? Be careful, these socially engineered Millennials will start screaming for a safe space.
 
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When we talk about anti-vaccination people we're not talking about adults who don't want zostavax or pneumovax, we're talking about idiot parents who refuse to vaccinate their children.

Its well known that all vaccines given later in life don't work that well. For zostavax in particular you see a steep decline in effectiveness every decade you delay.

What is fact is that childhood vaccines work, they work well, and they save lives. If you disagree with this basic premise, you're just flat out wrong (generic you, not you specifically). The flu vaccine at most ages is more debatable, though the data is very strongly in favor of using it. Its certainly more effective (with fewer side effects) than Tamiflu...
I think this thread is most pertinent to a retail pharmacist who has administered Flumist in the past and explained its benefits(stronger immune response, pain free, etc)...maybe even persuaded someone who was reluctant...and now is faced with this info from the CDC. "What if that person comes back with questions? How do I respond?"
Your clarification is well taken but I would further clarify your statement. Which childhood vaccines? Most children will never receive a flu shot, chicken pox vaccine, HPV to name a few. Part of the corruption I mentioned is associating a product with one with enormous proven benefit.
 
What are trying to say, Bubba? You mean anthropogenic global warming is a scam for a global carbon tax? Be careful, these socially engineered Millennials will start screaming for a safe space.
Whole separate thread...forum even
 
I can't explain why ACIP decided to issue this recommendation on nasal flu mist. The politics, lobbying and money that go into the process can cloud the science. It's possible that Astra Zeneca paid to get an ineffective vaccine introduced in the first place. The CDC may have got so many complaints about its lack of efficacy that they had no choice but to downgrade it. It also may have been injuring children presenting a liability issue.

Will you please respond to the 63% instead of only looking at the data that supports your thoughts?
 
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It's very nice to get some validation for what I have been teaching my students and patients from such an unlikely place. I'm surprised a brainwashed pharmacist hasn't defended flumist by saying that it saved 3% of the children so it is still worth it. You certainly cannot trust the studies which were performed by the company promoting their own product. I have to say this as though it's not common sense. It is not surprising given the quality of our educational system in the US though and the quality of the pharmacy grads today.

I know I shouldn't encourage it, but it's hard to resist.

Do you read every bit of published literature for every single medication you dispense? Because if not then you are guilty of exactly what you accuse every other "brainwashed pharmacist" of; believing anything corporate tells you. So, please tell us. Do you read ALL the literature for everything you dispense?
 
I think this thread is most pertinent to a retail pharmacist who has administered Flumist in the past and explained its benefits(stronger immune response, pain free, etc)...maybe even persuaded someone who was reluctant...and now is faced with this info from the CDC. "What if that person comes back with questions? How do I respond?"
Your clarification is well taken but I would further clarify your statement. Which childhood vaccines? Most children will never receive a flu shot, chicken pox vaccine, HPV to name a few. Part of the corruption I mentioned is associating a product with one with enormous proven benefit.

Bubba, I'd like to get your opinion on the chicken pox vaccine. It is a vaccine which is very effective but unnecessary.
 
When we talk about anti-vaccination people we're not talking about adults who don't want zostavax or pneumovax, we're talking about idiot parents who refuse to vaccinate their children.

Its well known that all vaccines given later in life don't work that well. For zostavax in particular you see a steep decline in effectiveness every decade you delay.

What is fact is that childhood vaccines work, they work well, and they save lives. If you disagree with this basic premise, you're just flat out wrong (generic you, not you specifically). The flu vaccine at most ages is more debatable, though the data is very strongly in favor of using it. Its certainly more effective (with fewer side effects) than Tamiflu...

When you study the history of disease you learn that the major diseases of the 20th century were in steep decline decades prior to the invention of vaccines. They declined primarily due to improvements in nutrition and the separation of potable water from sewage. When no on studies history it is easy to rewrite it to ones monetary advantage. It's happened over and over again. They are clever.
 
I think this guy just gets off on being a troll.

I'm all for having a conversation but the person has to be willing to see the other side instead of ignoring all facts.
 
I think this thread is most pertinent to a retail pharmacist who has administered Flumist in the past and explained its benefits(stronger immune response, pain free, etc)...maybe even persuaded someone who was reluctant...and now is faced with this info from the CDC. "What if that person comes back with questions? How do I respond?"
Your clarification is well taken but I would further clarify your statement. Which childhood vaccines? Most children will never receive a flu shot, chicken pox vaccine, HPV to name a few. Part of the corruption I mentioned is associating a product with one with enormous proven benefit.
Happens all the time in medicine. I basically explain that we/I was wrong (patients actually like hearing us admit fault as opposed to trying to weasel out of it), explain that this is why medical research never stops, and offer my best recommendations based on the current evidence.

In this case, if a patient came in after hearing about this and was angry about it I'd say something like "I'm sorry that I recommended this. At the time, our best evidence was that this vaccine would help. Now that we know it doesn't, I've stopped recommending it. The same study that shows that the nasal vaccine didn't work did show that the flu shot is effect around 2/3rds of the time which in medicine is pretty darned good so I still recommend that. I'll be keeping an eye out for more studies like this one and continue to improve the care I provide."

When you say most children never receive, I'm assuming you mean worldwide. In the US, most kids do get the chicken pox vaccine (and as someone who had chicken pox, I completely support the vaccine), a large number (not sure the percentage) do get the flu vaccine, the the HPV vaccine is also quite popular (in raw numbers, again not sure percentage wise). I personally have gotten flu shots every year since I was 8 and wish they'd had the HPV vaccine before I got too old to get it.
 
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When you study the history of disease you learn that the major diseases of the 20th century were in steep decline decades prior to the invention of vaccines. They declined primarily due to improvements in nutrition and the separation of potable water from sewage. When no on studies history it is easy to rewrite it to ones monetary advantage. It's happened over and over again. They are clever.
You are astoundingly wrong...

Epidemiology — The polio epidemics that occurred in the first half of the 20th century in the United States were, ironically, a result of improved sanitation. Prior to 1900 in the United States, polio was endemic. Most infants were infected with poliovirus before age six months. While some developed infantile paralysis, many were protected by maternal antibodies and had inapparent infections, resulting in widespread immunity in American children. Improved sanitation led to many less infants being exposed to poliovirus, creating a large pool of susceptible individuals. When exposure occurred later and the individuals were not protected by maternal antibodies, there were polio epidemics.

In 1952, there were 57,000 reported cases of polio [4,5]. This number included paralytic, nonparalytic, and unspecified cases; paralytic cases peaked at over 21,000 that year [6]. With the introduction of Salk inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV) in 1955, the number of cases rapidly declined to under 2,500 cases in 1957. By 1965, only 61 cases of paralytic polio were reported.


So wait, improved sanitation actually made polio worse? Huh, isn't that interesting. And in 1952 (you know, when we had decent nutrition and sanitation in this country), around 35% of polio cases resulted in paralysis. Man, it sucks that we've essentially eradicated this disease in the US.

Background
In the decade before the live measles vaccine was licensed in 1963, an average of 549,000 measles cases and 495 measles deaths were reported annually in the United States. However, it is likely that, on average, 3 to 4 million people were infected with measles annually; most cases were not reported. Of the reported cases, approximately 48,000 people were hospitalized from measles and 1,000 people developed chronic disability from acute encephalitis caused by measles annually.

So in the late 50s/early 60s (again, we had good sanitation and decent diet back then), 1/11 people who got measles ended up in the hospital. Its really a shame that we did away with that.

In infants younger than 12 months of age who get pertussis, about half are hospitalized. Hospitalization is most common in infants younger than 6 months of age. Of those infants who are hospitalized with pertussis approximately:

  • 61% will have apnea
  • 23% get pneumonia
  • 1.1% will have seizures
  • 1% will die
  • 0.3% will have encephalopathy (as a result of hypoxia from coughing or possibly from toxin)
So even at present day, 0.5% of kids under a year old will die from pertussis. And a full 50% end up in the hospital. I can't see why we'd try and prevent that.

Before the availability of pertussis vaccine in the 1940s, more than 200,000 cases of pertussis were reported annually. Since widespread use of the vaccine began, incidence has decreased more than 75% compared with the pre-vaccine era.

However, since the 1980s there's been an increase in the number of reported cases of pertussis. In 2012, the last peak year, 48,277 cases of pertussis were reported

Using these numbers, pre-vaccine (1940s, good sanitation and OK diet) we're talking 1,000 deaths. Nowadays, we're seeing more like 240. Its too bad, those extra 760 babies really just shouldn't be here.

I could do on, but I think I've made my point. The evidence is not on your side whatsoever. Talk to people who have had these diseases (you know, the baby boomers) and see if they would have preferred a vaccine to actually getting the disease.
 
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Bubba, I'd like to get your opinion on the chicken pox vaccine. It is a vaccine which is very effective but unnecessary.
Yes I would agree and who knows what happens in 60 years when those vaccinated get old. Phase 4 trials never really end.
 
When you study the history of disease you learn that the major diseases of the 20th century were in steep decline decades prior to the invention of vaccines. They declined primarily due to improvements in nutrition and the separation of potable water from sewage. When no on studies history it is easy to rewrite it to ones monetary advantage. It's happened over and over again. They are clever.

So the Walt Disney measles outbreak was because we suddenly lost control of our nutrition and sewage in that area?
 
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OP go eat your non-GMO/organic kale somewhere else and preach your antivax idiocy there too. You are in the wrong profession if you believe the crap that you are spewing (non evidence based medicine).

And just because I enjoy this video:

 
OP What can I take to treat the chemtrail flu?
(someone came in the pharmacy and asked this, no joke)


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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Happens all the time in medicine. I basically explain that we/I was wrong (patients actually like hearing us admit fault as opposed to trying to weasel out of it), explain that this is why medical research never stops, and offer my best recommendations based on the current evidence.

In this case, if a patient came in after hearing about this and was angry about it I'd say something like "I'm sorry that I recommended this. At the time, our best evidence was that this vaccine would help. Now that we know it doesn't, I've stopped recommending it. The same study that shows that the nasal vaccine didn't work did show that the flu shot is effect around 2/3rds of the time which in medicine is pretty darned good so I still recommend that. I'll be keeping an eye out for more studies like this one and continue to improve the care I provide."

When you say most children never receive, I'm assuming you mean worldwide. In the US, most kids do get the chicken pox vaccine (and as someone who had chicken pox, I completely support the vaccine), a large number (not sure the percentage) do get the flu vaccine, the the HPV vaccine is also quite popular (in raw numbers, again not sure percentage wise). I personally have gotten flu shots every year since I was 8 and wish they'd had the HPV vaccine before I got too old to get it.

It would be better for your patients and your profession if you just admitted that this is more evidence that the flu shot is not an effective way to prevent the flu. Explain to you patients that the virus they choose in China in march looks nothing like the virus which arrives on our shores 6 months later due to mutations. Also explain that the flu shot data is given using the lower standard of vaccine efficiency vs Vaccine efficacy. They are afraid to perform a double-blind placebo controlled study because it would reveal the fraud. Also tell them that no long term studies have been performed on the effects of receiving yearly flu shots. Advise them that that taking common sense measures and good nutrition are adequate to protect you from the flu. The flu shot isn't the only unnecessary medical procedure which has been or is being performed.
 
You are astoundingly wrong...

Epidemiology — The polio epidemics that occurred in the first half of the 20th century in the United States were, ironically, a result of improved sanitation. Prior to 1900 in the United States, polio was endemic. Most infants were infected with poliovirus before age six months. While some developed infantile paralysis, many were protected by maternal antibodies and had inapparent infections, resulting in widespread immunity in American children. Improved sanitation led to many less infants being exposed to poliovirus, creating a large pool of susceptible individuals. When exposure occurred later and the individuals were not protected by maternal antibodies, there were polio epidemics.

In 1952, there were 57,000 reported cases of polio [4,5]. This number included paralytic, nonparalytic, and unspecified cases; paralytic cases peaked at over 21,000 that year [6]. With the introduction of Salk inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV) in 1955, the number of cases rapidly declined to under 2,500 cases in 1957. By 1965, only 61 cases of paralytic polio were reported.


So wait, improved sanitation actually made polio worse? Huh, isn't that interesting. And in 1952 (you know, when we had decent nutrition and sanitation in this country), around 35% of polio cases resulted in paralysis. Man, it sucks that we've essentially eradicated this disease in the US.

Background
In the decade before the live measles vaccine was licensed in 1963, an average of 549,000 measles cases and 495 measles deaths were reported annually in the United States. However, it is likely that, on average, 3 to 4 million people were infected with measles annually; most cases were not reported. Of the reported cases, approximately 48,000 people were hospitalized from measles and 1,000 people developed chronic disability from acute encephalitis caused by measles annually.

So in the late 50s/early 60s (again, we had good sanitation and decent diet back then), 1/11 people who got measles ended up in the hospital. Its really a shame that we did away with that.

In infants younger than 12 months of age who get pertussis, about half are hospitalized. Hospitalization is most common in infants younger than 6 months of age. Of those infants who are hospitalized with pertussis approximately:

  • 61% will have apnea
  • 23% get pneumonia
  • 1.1% will have seizures
  • 1% will die
  • 0.3% will have encephalopathy (as a result of hypoxia from coughing or possibly from toxin)
So even at present day, 0.5% of kids under a year old will die from pertussis. And a full 50% end up in the hospital. I can't see why we'd try and prevent that.

Before the availability of pertussis vaccine in the 1940s, more than 200,000 cases of pertussis were reported annually. Since widespread use of the vaccine began, incidence has decreased more than 75% compared with the pre-vaccine era.

However, since the 1980s there's been an increase in the number of reported cases of pertussis. In 2012, the last peak year, 48,277 cases of pertussis were reported

Using these numbers, pre-vaccine (1940s, good sanitation and OK diet) we're talking 1,000 deaths. Nowadays, we're seeing more like 240. Its too bad, those extra 760 babies really just shouldn't be here.

I could do on, but I think I've made my point. The evidence is not on your side whatsoever. Talk to people who have had these diseases (you know, the baby boomers) and see if they would have preferred a vaccine to actually getting the disease.

It was never conclusively proven that polio was caused by a virus. The more likely candidate at the time was organophospate pesticides such as DDT. You can't sell a vaccine without a virus. I'm not going into this on this thread. I'll open another one later. I'll pick the lower hanging fruit such as the flu shot first.
 
So the Walt Disney measles outbreak was because we suddenly lost control of our nutrition and sewage in that area?

There are plenty of examples of measles outbreaks occurring in fulling vaccinated daycares. Look them up. The measles vaccine doesn't work.
 
Fully vaccinated daycares accept kids under the age of one that cannot be vaccinated. So if the less than one year old is infected the herd immunity is lost, and the kids who are vaccinated but not fully immunized get sick.
 
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OP go eat your non-GMO/organic kale somewhere else and preach your antivax idiocy there too. You are in the wrong profession if you believe the crap that you are spewing (non evidence based medicine).

And just because I enjoy this video:



Swearing magicians who know nothing are the best people to deliver a pro vaccine rant. I bet these two fools would perform an anti vaccination video if you gave them enough money. They throw a ball for tetanus. Hilarious. When was the last time you heard about someone contracting tetanus let alone dying from it. It's not due to their "immunity" from a vaccine received decades ago. They also told those monkeys to throw a ball for chicken pox. The lethality of chicken pox was close to 0 even before the vaccine. It's also funny how I personally know dozens of people and children who have never been vaccinated and somehow they are still alive and healthy. We are all smart enough not to inject concoctions which contain formaldehyde and aluminum among many other know toxic ingredients. Neither will I recommend them to my patients.
 
It was never conclusively proven that polio was caused by a virus. The more likely candidate at the time was organophospate pesticides such as DDT. You can't sell a vaccine without a virus. I'm not going into this on this thread. I'll open another one later. I'll pick the lower hanging fruit such as the flu shot first.

Oh my, you doubt the actual existence of the polio virus? Seriously????
 
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