NAPA in trouble in NJ

[Hoya11]

im in academic and here we cant take our sick days for family member having surgery i believe. no problem if its your own surgery.

crnas are telling me there are bunch of places paying 200 a hr per diem, and highest ive heard was 250/hr for crna. the crnas here make more than docs (but they do also work 12 hr shifts so they are guaranteed 12 hrs per day)

i think you are comparing CRNA AGENCY rates to MD DIRECT rates.

MD agency rates can easily be 350 - you know, "agency" rates where you are paying for travel and gas and hotel. Through one of those national agencies where they fly in docs/crnas.

Not apples to apples. Around me its CRNA 150, MD 220. DIRECT rates.

Agency rates are CRNA 180-200, MD 300-350.

CRNAs often cite these "agency" rates to impress you with their market value. But they dont see all that money. And its usually a temporary traveler type situation.

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[nimbus]

it depends. in some scenario, if the difference isnt THAT large, it can still make sense.

for example, if we are a level 1 trauma hospital. having a few crna provide flexibility. where as having all MD only can create a problem, because if all the MD are in rooms, theres no one to give breaks, you give our own break/lunch. also if a trauma comes in, who is doing it? everyone is in room. who is covering the pacu? we do sick patients, and our PACU have patients waiting for ICU, post strokes/thrombectomies, etc.

so if its MD only, do you have 1 MD just sitting there waiting for traumas? do you have 1 person sitting there just for PACU? with crna we can cover a room, generate some revenue, while still cover PACU, and trauma if it hits by pulling a CRNA from another room. and it makes it safer by having more than 1 pair of hands for big cases. its impossible to manage sick patients, chart, MTP, with 1 anesthesiologist and no help

unfortunately, crnas getting more is just the supply vs demand right now. the crnas dont want to work for less than their rate, while for a lower rate we have MDs applying for the job.

We do all the same cases MD only. Take breaks when we can during turnovers. Traumas almost always take 20 min to get to OR for scans, COVID tests, etc. usually someone frees up during that time. We have non-CRNA trauma nurses and anesthesia techs who can run the Belmont. We have folks who are “on the hook” after they finish their lineup and they could get called back but they don’t wait around in the hospital.

 

[GravelRider]

it depends. in some scenario, if the difference isnt THAT large, it can still make sense.

for example, if we are a level 1 trauma hospital. having a few crna provide flexibility. where as having all MD only can create a problem, because if all the MD are in rooms, theres no one to give breaks, you give our own break/lunch. also if a trauma comes in, who is doing it? everyone is in room. who is covering the pacu? we do sick patients, and our PACU have patients waiting for ICU, post strokes/thrombectomies, etc.

so if its MD only, do you have 1 MD just sitting there waiting for traumas? do you have 1 person sitting there just for PACU? with crna we can cover a room, generate some revenue, while still cover PACU, and trauma if it hits by pulling a CRNA from another room. and it makes it safer by having more than 1 pair of hands for big cases. its impossible to manage sick patients, chart, MTP, with 1 anesthesiologist and no help

unfortunately, crnas getting more is just the supply vs demand right now. the crnas dont want to work for less than their rate, while for a lower rate we have MDs applying for the job.

None of that explains why CRNAs get paid more.

 

[anbuitachi]

States designate hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to subsidize trauma care at their trauma centers. Your department can use some of that money to make sure there is an MD at the board, an MD on regional/PACU, and an MD holding the trauma pager. All of those people can help start a trauma. And if you need extra hands to spike blood and hand you stuff, the answer is anesthesia techs, not more CRNAs.

a lot of replies here are saying what my employer can do and blah blahs, and i agree with some of them, but im not the ceo, so i dont make these decisions, and my goal isnt to become ceo. im just a employee.

i also certainly dont make policies. here the techs dont do clinical patient related stuff. so no transfusions.

also i have no idea how much my hospital get for the trauma care honestly and i dont know how to look it up. either way that money goes to the hospital not us. im sure hospital gets money for thrombectomy care too. but again we dont get that money.

we are employees, they give us a certain # of FTEs and the salary for the FTE. thats the basics of that. if no one joins us, then im sure they'll increase it to keep the trauma program open, but that is not happening

None of that explains why CRNAs get paid more.

i think i said it. supply vs demand. we have X # of lines for attendings and a Y # for CRNAs given to us from the hospital. attendings are willing to come, but not crnas. therefore hospital increase crna rate

 

[anbuitachi]

We do all the same cases MD only. Take breaks when we can during turnovers. Traumas almost always take 20 min to get to OR for scans, COVID tests, etc. usually someone frees up during that time. We have non-CRNA trauma nurses and anesthesia techs who can run the Belmont. We have folks who are “on the hook” after they finish their lineup and they could get called back but they don’t wait around in the hospital.

our techs are not allowed to run the belmont. idk, state, cms, jhaco, or hospital policy or a combination. we do not have trauma nurses

 

[anbuitachi]

We do all the same cases MD only. Take breaks when we can during turnovers. Traumas almost always take 20 min to get to OR for scans, COVID tests, etc. usually someone frees up during that time. We have non-CRNA trauma nurses and anesthesia techs who can run the Belmont. We have folks who are “on the hook” after they finish their lineup and they could get called back but they don’t wait around in the hospital.

you guys delay traumas for covid testing??? some traumas dont need scans, they just go to OR from ED directly

 

[Hoya11]

you guys delay traumas for covid testing??? some traumas dont need scans, they just go to OR from ED directly

we did not delay, had several you find out after you induce

 

[ambiturner]

Ah - but your employer can play you with that mindset. Often they'll use your professionalism and good will against you by suggesting the systems problems are actually created by you, the worker-bee. If the system they created allocates paid sick days as suggested and you don't use them then the system benefits at your expense.

Similarly the guy working a late day is also getting played unless they get paid overtime, which they probably don't.

I in large part agree with Dr. Rude that employees should think like employees. Be professional but don't let the system play you.

And as noted it's an entirely different ballgame when you're a partner/owner or slated to be one. Being a true partner is like owning the McDonald's franchise vs being a burner-flipper. As a burger-flipper I'm taking my sick days.

Take the sick days and everything else they give you. When you sit down with the non-profit hospital admin bean counters as an employee, they will put a value on every single thing they give you, regardless of whether you want it or are using it, and consider it part of your ‘total compensation’. If they’re willing to have a conversation about trading some of the sick days for money then you can reconsider, but that will never happen.

And I 100% agree that you shouldn’t feel bad making someone stay late because you’re out sick. Eventually it’ll happen to you too. That foxhole mentality works in small private groups but AMCs/academics are strictly contractual relationships where you need to put yourself first.

 

[amyl]

My work is exactly what my contract states is required of me for the precisely negotiated price. My free time for money. The company's failure to prepare and staff apropriately is not my emergency. All you dunces who are not using your sick leave are working those days for free. I dunno about you but I dont work for free. Thus I use all my alloted sick leave. Stop thinking like an owner and start thinking like the employee that you are.

You don't get a pat on the back for not taking sick leave. You get laughed at for providing free labor.

Obviously eat what you kill, small private practices, etc are different. This is for the W2 / AMC employee.

We don’t have sick leave, it’s vacation I think. If I had assigned sick days I would use them but I don’t.
Aside from that my integrity is priceless… and no I wouldn’t feel right calling of sick dumping on my colleagues and partners who go out of their way for me.
My husband has a last minute all expenses paid trip to Greece - for me to get to go I needed to swap weeks of vacation with one guy and swap calls with another…. One partner just took my call, another was happy to swap weeks as he hadn’t already booked stuff. We look out for each other… Im sorry y’all belong to sucky groups that don’t have the same environment. The docs are best thing about my job… they’re the last people I’d dump on

 

[Twiggidy]

States designate hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to subsidize trauma care at their trauma centers. Your department can use some of that money to make sure there is an MD at the board, an MD on regional/PACU, and an MD holding the trauma pager. All of those people can help start a trauma. And if you need extra hands to spike blood and hand you stuff, the answer is anesthesia techs, not more CRNAs.

We have to remember we're also talking about a NYC hospital here. There's a lot of hands in that pot to a bare minimum keep the hospital functioning. And quite frankly, in NYC, since doctors don't have a union, they usually take the worse of it. It contributes to why a hospital employed CRNA can make more than the MD. Nursing union is STRONG.

 

[vector2]

a lot of replies here are saying what my employer can do and blah blahs, and i agree with some of them, but im not the ceo, so i dont make these decisions, and my goal isnt to become ceo. im just a employee.

i also certainly dont make policies. here the techs dont do clinical patient related stuff. so no transfusions.

also i have no idea how much my hospital get for the trauma care honestly and i dont know how to look it up. either way that money goes to the hospital not us. im sure hospital gets money for thrombectomy care too. but again we dont get that money.

we are employees, they give us a certain # of FTEs and the salary for the FTE. thats the basics of that. if no one joins us, then im sure they'll increase it to keep the trauma program open, but that is not happening


i think i said it. supply vs demand. we have X # of lines for attendings and a Y # for CRNAs given to us from the hospital. attendings are willing to come, but not crnas. therefore hospital increase crna rate

Don't worry, no one here was confusing you for the CEO. After all, you make less than the nurses.


But seriously, you made a post describing your model and essentially acting as if it was impossible that level I trauma could be done in an MD only fashion, and the responses you got told you that not only is it possible, it's being done (and it's probably more feasible than you think because trauma brings in a big money pot)

I understand you have limitations based on your state, your city, your hospital, your administration, the people you work with, etc, but look at what your saying. On one hand you say that you have no problem at all filling MD spots and that CRNAs make more because you have trouble hiring them . But on the other hand you don't have enough MDs to do MD only even though you can easily hire them? I mean, what?

I get you don't make decisions, but I also suspect from reading in between the lines that you're content to just accept the absurd status quo of CRNAs who make more than you and do all the procedures you do.

 

[nimbus]

you guys delay traumas for covid testing??? some traumas dont need scans, they just go to OR from ED directly

Most of the time we wait for COVID test because most traumas can wait. Rarely we don’t wait.

 

[nimbus]

We don’t have sick leave, it’s vacation I think. If I had assigned sick days I would use them but I don’t.
Aside from that my integrity is priceless… and no I wouldn’t feel right calling of sick dumping on my colleagues and partners who go out of their way for me.
My husband has a last minute all expenses paid trip to Greece - for me to get to go I needed to swap weeks of vacation with one guy and swap calls with another…. One partner just took my call, another was happy to swap weeks as he hadn’t already booked stuff. We look out for each other… Im sorry y’all belong to sucky groups that don’t have the same environment. The docs are best thing about my job… they’re the last people I’d dump on

I’ve been with my group for 20 yrs. In 2013, my mom died and I needed to leave the country for a week on short notice to attend her funeral. All my partners offered condolences and willingly stepped up help me get the week off. At the end of last year, I developed a health issue and needed to take 3 months off again on short (0 days) notice, just before the holidays. Again all I heard from my partners was, “Don’t worry about it, we’ll take care of things at work. You go take care of yourself.” A couple of my partners, both with young kids, ended up taking unexpected last minute q2 heart call through the holidays. Both were endlessly supportive and without a single complaint. And I got messages of support not just from my partners but also our surgeons and OR staff. My partners brought me food, sent me food, sent me giant Grubhub credits. Those are the only times I’ve “called in sick.” We are compensated 100% based on productivity, so of course I didn’t expect to be paid for not working. Our definition of “sick leave” is that our job will be waiting for us when we are able to return to work. I’ve also willingly helped out whenever I could over the years. But this is one of the reasons why I am happy where I am and hope to finish out my career here. It is a cliche but my workplace really feels like a family, crazy eccentric uncles and all.

 

[OptionOffense]

it depends. in some scenario, if the difference isnt THAT large, it can still make sense.

for example, if we are a level 1 trauma hospital. having a few crna provide flexibility. where as having all MD only can create a problem, because if all the MD are in rooms, theres no one to give breaks, you give our own break/lunch. also if a trauma comes in, who is doing it? everyone is in room. who is covering the pacu? we do sick patients, and our PACU have patients waiting for ICU, post strokes/thrombectomies, etc.

so if its MD only, do you have 1 MD just sitting there waiting for traumas? do you have 1 person sitting there just for PACU? with crna we can cover a room, generate some revenue, while still cover PACU, and trauma if it hits by pulling a CRNA from another room. and it makes it safer by having more than 1 pair of hands for big cases. its impossible to manage sick patients, chart, MTP, with 1 anesthesiologist and no help

unfortunately, crnas getting more is just the supply vs demand right now. the crnas dont want to work for less than their rate, while for a lower rate we have MDs applying for the job.

If you are paying crnas the same as an MD, it doesnt take a genius to figure out what kind of future you will see.

 

[anbuitachi]

Don't worry, no one here was confusing you for the CEO. After all, you make less than the nurses.


But seriously, you made a post describing your model and essentially acting as if it was impossible that level I trauma could be done in an MD only fashion, and the responses you got told you that not only is it possible, it's being done (and it's probably more feasible than you think because trauma brings in a big money pot)

I understand you have limitations based on your state, your city, your hospital, your administration, the people you work with, etc, but look at what your saying. On one hand you say that you have no problem at all filling MD spots and that CRNAs make more because you have trouble hiring them . But on the other hand you don't have enough MDs to do MD only even though you can easily hire them? I mean, what?

I get you don't make decisions, but I also suspect from reading in between the lines that you're content to just accept the absurd status quo of CRNAs who make more than you and do all the procedures you do.

i think you are overcomplicating things here. i decide where i want to work after deciding which region i want to be in. ive been around long enough to know many places do things differently.

never said its impossible to do MD only for level 1. im just saying its not practical here where i work with the staffing we have.

i dont see why you are confused by hiring MDs. like i said i am not the CEO. why is it so hard to understand that we cant just create salary lines out of thin air? if you give me a billion dollars annual budget, i'll get it done, MD only level 1 trauma center, no problem. we have a certain # salary lines for MD and a line for CRNA. i do not decide this. the anesthesiology chair does not determine this either. the hospital decides. and yes before you go on saying i can quit, yes i know that. i can go homeless whenever i want, it's definitely within my rights. im here because i want to stay in this region

 

[anbuitachi]

We have to remember we're also talking about a NYC hospital here. There's a lot of hands in that pot to a bare minimum keep the hospital functioning. And quite frankly, in NYC, since doctors don't have a union, they usually take the worse of it. It contributes to why a hospital employed CRNA can make more than the MD. Nursing union is STRONG.

yea its annoying doctors are not allowed to unionize

 

[anbuitachi]

If you are paying crnas the same as an MD, it doesnt take a genius to figure out what kind of future you will see.

well im hoping it means we will get a huge raise soon

 

[narcotics999]

well im hoping it means we will get a huge raise soon

Why do you stay at your place? What prevents you from working for NAPA as locums at 300-400/hr?

 

[anbuitachi]

Why do you stay at your place? What prevents you from working for NAPA as locums at 300-400/hr?

napa sucks. i dont like AMCs. also dont want to do locum at this time since i want stability for my kids/family/sick parents. and i need to be nearby

 

[2Fast2Des]

I’ve been with my group for 20 yrs. In 2013, my mom died and I needed to leave the country for a week on short notice to attend her funeral. All my partners offered condolences and willingly stepped up help me get the week off. At the end of last year, I developed a health issue and needed to take 3 months off again on short (0 days) notice, just before the holidays. Again all I heard from my partners was, “Don’t worry about it, we’ll take care of things at work. You go take care of yourself.” A couple of my partners, both with young kids, ended up taking unexpected last minute q2 heart call through the holidays. Both were endlessly supportive and without a single complaint. And I got messages of support not just from my partners but also our surgeons and OR staff. My partners brought me food, sent me food, sent me giant Grubhub credits. Those are the only times I’ve “called in sick.” We are compensated 100% based on productivity, so of course I didn’t expect to be paid for not working. Our definition of “sick leave” is that our job will be waiting for us when we are able to return to work. I’ve also willingly helped out whenever I could over the years. But this is one of the reasons why I am happy where I am and hope to finish out my career here. It is a cliche but my workplace really feels like a family, crazy eccentric uncles and all.

Wow that must be a dream job and nice to have empathetic partners\coworkers looking out for each other. You're probably in the lucky 1%. Wish my place was remotely like that... When I held back from using my vacation for the year to use for paternity time, I was told to take a hike and stop being a millennial wanting time off.

 

[Twiggidy]

napa sucks. i dont like AMCs. also dont want to do locum at this time since i want stability for my kids/family/sick parents. and i need to be nearby

I have friend who says the entire NYC/NJ metro market is a ****show and quite literally everyone is hiring. Academics seem the most stable in the region but the pay is lower and everything else will be AMC dominated with likely Northwell emerging victorious. There's PAGNY but from what I've heard their pay is lower than academics, but i also think they have a strick 50hr work week (at least that's what's advertised) which still really only comes out to about 150/hr. That's more a problem with payor mix given the places they cover.

You're in a comfort zone currently and I can't be mad at that. As been said on here, the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

yea its annoying doctors are not allowed to unionize

This is incorrect. Please show me a law that says doctors cant unionize (with the exception of the price fixing clause). you most definitely can collectively bargain for contractual negotiations and can even strike. The probability is however extremely low given the different priorities of the various specialties.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

This is incorrect. Please show me a law that says doctors cant unionize (with the exception of the price fixing clause). you most definitely can collectively bargain for contractual negotiations and can even strike. The probability is however extremely low given the different priorities of the various specialties.

I don’t think it is this simple.

 

[Twiggidy]

This is incorrect. Please show me a law that says doctors cant unionize (with the exception of the price fixing clause). you most definitely can collectively bargain for contractual negotiations and can even strike. The probability is however extremely low given the different priorities of the various specialties.

This is correct, the caveat is you the physicians must be employed by a hospital or healthcare system. So if you're employed by say Kaiser or NYC H+H, you can strike, but as Arch said this is where it gets tricky because for the most part, most of us work for groups that are contracted by a hospital and aren't actually hospital or health system employees.

 

[anbuitachi]

This is correct, the caveat is you the physicians must be employed by a hospital or healthcare system. So if you're employed by say Kaiser or NYC H+H, you can strike, but as Arch said this is where it gets tricky because for the most part, most of us work for groups that are contracted by a hospital and aren't actually hospital or health system employees.

yea its very complicated

 

[GravelRider]

This is incorrect. Please show me a law that says doctors cant unionize (with the exception of the price fixing clause). you most definitely can collectively bargain for contractual negotiations and can even strike. The probability is however extremely low given the different priorities of the various specialties.

Check your contract. Many doctor contracts include clauses that limit your ability to officially unionize. It doesn’t mean you can’t sort of collectively bargain, but it does mean you can’t employ the same full frontal negotiation tactics that unions use.

 

[nimbus]

Wow that must be a dream job and nice to have empathetic partners\coworkers looking out for each other. You're probably in the lucky 1%. Wish my place was remotely like that... When I held back from using my vacation for the year to use for paternity time, I was told to take a hike and stop being a millennial wanting time off.

Not a dream job for everyone, just for me and other like minded people. We’ve had plenty of people leave for Kaiser. We are MD only and a trauma center so our days are very unpredictable with no set end time. The pay, though improving, has always been meh unless you’re a workaholic. But our group is very supportive and fair, and partners are awesome. We’ve had people take 9-12 months off for maternity leave and welcomed them back. We used to offer leaves of absence for up to 1 year so people could do fellowship or try another job, then return. Although that is no longer an official policy but I’m sure we’d take many people back in an instant.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

I don’t think it is this simple.

Agreed, just pointing out that you can unionize as employed physicians.

This is correct, the caveat is you the physicians must be employed by a hospital or healthcare system. So if you're employed by say Kaiser or NYC H+H, you can strike, but as Arch said this is where it gets tricky because for the most part, most of us work for groups that are contracted by a hospital and aren't actually hospital or health system employees.

Correct. I should've clarified.

Check your contract. Many doctor contracts include clauses that limit your ability to officially unionize. It doesn’t mean you can’t sort of collectively bargain, but it does mean you can’t employ the same full frontal negotiation tactics that unions use.

Im not an employed physician. Although, having such a clause would violate NLRB rules and be unenforceable, so it would be a moot point.

 

[kidthor]

Check your contract. Many doctor contracts include clauses that limit your ability to officially unionize. It doesn’t mean you can’t sort of collectively bargain, but it does mean you can’t employ the same full frontal negotiation tactics that unions use.

It is illegal to restrict employees from joining a union.

Also all employed physicians could unionize. Independent contractors and partnership-ed physicians cannot.

 

[GravelRider]

It is illegal to restrict employees from joining a union.

Also all employed physicians could unionize. Independent contractors and partnership-ed physicians cannot.

I believe if they consider you part of “management” or in a supervisory role, you are not protected by those same laws. The description of “managers” or “supervisors” would almost always include physicians.

I’m happy to be wrong here, but that was my impression when trying to understand why more physicians don’t unionize.

 

[Twiggidy]

I believe if they consider you part of “management” or in a supervisory role, you are not protected by those same laws. The description of “managers” or “supervisors” would almost always include physicians.

I’m happy to be wrong here, but that was my impression when trying to understand why more physicians don’t unionize.

And that could be a useful trick for why hospitals and healthcare systems use CRNAs. Not just for the potential financial aspect, but now your doctors are supervisors and makes it harder to rebel against the system.

 

[kidthor]

I believe if they consider you part of “management” or in a supervisory role, you are not protected by those same laws. The description of “managers” or “supervisors” would almost always include physicians.

I’m happy to be wrong here, but that was my impression when trying to understand why more physicians don’t unionize.

Good point - employers will certainly want to argue the doctors are supervisors. But the current tide is in our favor.

The Doctor Is In…A Union? NLRB Orders Union Election for Physicians

“This DDE is notable, as it confirms that physicians will not automatically be considered supervisors under the Act and may seek union representation. Indeed, Piedmont’s physicians and providers ultimately voted in favor of union representation. Healthcare employers should consider reviewing their physicians’ job descriptions and job duties to determine whether they potentially can be considered supervisors under the Act.”

 

[anbuitachi]

Check your contract. Many doctor contracts include clauses that limit your ability to officially unionize. It doesn’t mean you can’t sort of collectively bargain, but it does mean you can’t employ the same full frontal negotiation tactics that unions use.

yes mine limits us i believe. but we can collectively bargain. also in our contract is inability to strike

 

[GravelRider]

yes mine limits us i believe. but we can collectively bargain. also in our contract is inability to strike

I seriously thought you were going to say “also in our contract they kick us in the groin once everyday.” It wouldn’t have surprised me.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

I believe if they consider you part of “management” or in a supervisory role, you are not protected by those same laws. The description of “managers” or “supervisors” would almost always include physicians.

I’m happy to be wrong here, but that was my impression when trying to understand why more physicians don’t unionize.

And that could be a useful trick for why hospitals and healthcare systems use CRNAs. Not just for the potential financial aspect, but now your doctors are supervisors and makes it harder to rebel against the system.

That definition falls under administrative management. This is why charge nurses who supervise floor nurses are still unionized, but ADNs who are largely fulfilling administrative roles are not.

yes mine limits us i believe. but we can collectively bargain. also in our contract is inability to strike

Theres still ways you can screw em. Forget to properly document your lines or make your chart unbillable. Striking can happen in many forms.

 

[Twiggidy]

Theres still ways you can screw em. Forget to properly document your lines or make your chart unbillable. Striking can happen in many forms.

This is actually happening somewhere......and that's all i'll say

 

[GravelRider]

That definition falls under administrative management. This is why charge nurses who supervise floor nurses are still unionized, but ADNs who are largely fulfilling administrative roles are not.

Theres still ways you can screw em. Forget to properly document your lines or make your chart unbillable. Striking can happen in many forms.

That’s why I say look at your contract. There are physician contracts that say you are an “executive” or “manager” or “supervisor” or some other word. It might be a single innocuous looking sentence, but it’s put there to prevent you from unionizing (among other protections given to workers).

An employment contract also probably has clauses to protect the employer from harm caused by purposeful incorrect billing. If they catch you and if they ask you to correct it and you don’t, they can fire you with cause…and potentially worse.

It’s impossible for an employer to prevent employees from collectively bargaining to a degree. However, a physician’s best and often only bargaining chip is the ability and willingness to walk away from a crappy job. The day you start thinking about purposely incorrectly billing is the day you should be handing a letter of resignation instead.

 

[anbuitachi]

That definition falls under administrative management. This is why charge nurses who supervise floor nurses are still unionized, but ADNs who are largely fulfilling administrative roles are not.

Theres still ways you can screw em. Forget to properly document your lines or make your chart unbillable. Striking can happen in many forms.

then my chair will be on my face about not charting properly

 

[DocVapor]

then my chair will be on my face about not charting properly

Is she hot though?

 

[OptionOffense]

then my chair will be on my face about not charting properly

s/he or it shouldnt be looking through your charts. It is a hippa violation

 

[DocVapor]

s/he or it shouldnt be looking through your charts. It is a hippa violation

I'm sure the chair isn't personally spying on charts. The hospital likely has a legion of clipboard nurses to do that who then report the noncompliant troublemakers.

 

[OptionOffense]

I'm sure the chair isn't personally spying on charts. The hospital likely has a legion of clipboard nurses to do that who then report the noncompliant troublemakers.

Nobody should be looking through charts unless you need to to provide medical care. Period. This is the most abused privilege. Going through charts to see if I charted my line properly is nobody;s business but mine and the patients and of course the medical doctor who is caring for the patient after me.

 

[IMGASMD]

Nobody should be looking through charts unless you need to to provide medical care. Period. This is the most abused privilege. Going through charts to see if I charted my line properly is nobody;s business but mine and the patients and of course the medical doctor who is caring for the patient after me.

There is a “exception” for the private charts: billing. Ain’t no one doing this for free…

 

[Twiggidy]

Nobody should be looking through charts unless you need to to provide medical care. Period. This is the most abused privilege. Going through charts to see if I charted my line properly is nobody;s business but mine and the patients and of course the medical doctor who is caring for the patient after me.

These are chart audits and it happens all the time and some hospitals pay groups bonus based on completed charts. None of this is a HIPPA violation, even if you personally feel no one should be looking over your shoulder. That’s like saying JACO inspections are HIPPA violations. It’s not

 

[OptionOffense]

These are chart audits and it happens all the time and some hospitals pay groups bonus based on completed charts. None of this is a HIPPA violation, even if you personally feel no one should be looking over your shoulder. That’s like saying JACO inspections are HIPPA violations. It’s not

I am not saying looking over my shoulder? I couldnt care less about that, I care about the patients privacy. People invariably see things in charts especially non medical people and those are the people who call the national inquirer, dailymail about the skin tag on your scrotum. They call plaintiffs attorneys on bad outcomes etc..

 

[OptionOffense]

There is a “exception” for the private charts: billing. Ain’t no one doing this for free…

Then let the pvt insurance company subpoena the charts in question. The hospital networks shouldn't devote an etnire office of disgruntled bedside nurses rifling through charts. this is so normalized that everyone on here thinks it is ok.

 

[Twiggidy]

I am not saying looking over my shoulder? I couldnt care less about that, I care about the patients privacy. People invariably see things in charts especially non medical people and those are the people who call the national inquirer, dailymail about the skin tag on your scrotum. They call plaintiffs attorneys on bad outcomes etc..

Ok…..except what you’re saying isn’t true in like 99% of cases

 

[OptionOffense]

Ok…..except what you’re saying isn’t true in like 99% of cases

I still lock my car doors even though 99.9 percent of the time nothing will happen. What is your pt?

 

[Twiggidy]

I still lock my car doors even though 99.9 percent of the time nothing will happen. What is your pt?

My point is your conspiracy theory doesn't have much weight. Chart auditors/JACO don't inspect with the intention of calling the National Enquirer.

 

[OptionOffense]

Chart auditors/JACO don't inspect with the intention of calling the National Enquirer.

Does not mean the potential is not there. You take away that privilege, you take the potential away.