MS2 Interested in ENT, how to proceed

[deleted1099400]

I'm a second year DO student wanting to match into ENT, I'm basically going down and trying to check all the boxes and do everything I can to make myself competitive. I worked as an med tech in Peds ENT, for a couple years before going to medical school so when I came in last year I knew the direction I wanted to go in.

Mainly, am I approaching this the right way? I've gotten different feedback, especially from my career adviser who basically told me to "do as well as I can" while focusing on these things:

1. Publish as much as I can/ do exceptional on Step II
2. Ace clinical rotations /get recs
3. Show interest/leadership
4. Service work

Research: I have 1 first author publication in an oto text book, 2 papers in the publication process and am working on a couple papers as well as designing a study for a ENT fellow not even in my state (which I'm excited about)

Leadership/interest: ENT/Plastics President, ACOS-MSS VP, on the diversity committee at school, I will tutor 2 first year courses, started a club

Service work: not much really except a few school events

Grades: basically B student with 3 A's and 2 C's; my school is P/F. Do residencies even look at these besides from AOA designation which my school doesn't have/can they see the letter grades?

I feel like inherently I should be focusing on grades as I'm a medical student but especially as step is P/F, it honestly feels strange I spend probably 1/3 of my time studying; I'm hoping to do much better this coming year but I am a bit worried about my first year performance.

Thanks!

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[DOVinciRobot]

Grades are an issue, because they raise the concern of not doing stellar on boards. I don’t know any ENT residents that weren’t stellar academically.

@Tragal Pointer

 

[Neopolymath]

@Preston Garvey

 

[deleted1099400]

Grades are an issue, because they raise the concern of not doing stellar on boards. I don’t know any ENT residents that weren’t stellar academically.

@Tragal Pointer

Got it; I know a couple who were similar grade wise but were MD and obviously strong step 1 scores. Not sure of the emphasis PDs place on the preclinicals in general, either way will need to bring them up. Appreciate it.

 

[FistLength]

I'm a second year DO student wanting to match into ENT, I'm basically going down and trying to check all the boxes and do everything I can to make myself competitive. I worked as an med tech in Peds ENT, for a couple years before going to medical school so when I came in last year I knew the direction I wanted to go in.

Mainly, am I approaching this the right way? I've gotten different feedback, especially from my career adviser who basically told me to "do as well as I can" while focusing on these things:

1. Publish as much as I can/ do exceptional on Step II
2. Ace clinical rotations /get recs
3. Show interest/leadership
4. Service work

Research: I have 1 first author publication in an oto text book, 2 papers in the publication process and am working on a couple papers as well as designing a study for a ENT fellow not even in my state (which I'm excited about)

Leadership/interest: ENT/Plastics President, ACOS-MSS VP, on the diversity committee at school, I will tutor 2 first year courses, started a club

Service work: not much really except a few school events

Grades: basically B student with 3 A's and 2 C's; my school is P/F. Do residencies even look at these besides from AOA designation which my school doesn't have/can they see the letter grades?

I feel like inherently I should be focusing on grades as I'm a medical student but especially as step is P/F, it honestly feels strange I spend probably 1/3 of my time studying; I'm hoping to do much better this coming year but I am a bit worried about my first year performance.

Thanks!

if you have everything except exceptional grades in the first 2 years, most people won't care. Being on the admissions committee (not ENT), I have never heard of someone disparaging year 1 and 2 grades. Being a DO you will have to do that much more to stand out. Putting emphasis on grades won't give you bang for your buck, imho.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

if you have everything except exceptional grades in the first 2 years, most people won't care. Being on the admissions committee (not ENT), I have never heard of someone disparaging year 1 and 2 grades. Being a DO you will have to do that much more to stand out. Putting emphasis on grades won't give you bang for your buck, imho.

I think it’s more what the grades represent. If OP is one of those students who can bang out 95%+ on tests but doesn’t because they decide to allocate that extra study time to something else like research that’s one thing. However, if they are giving class all they have and are a B student with some Cs mixed in then that is poor indicator they will do well enough on COMLEX or USMLE for ENT. They will definitely need that other stuff too though.

The DO match rate for ENT is sub-50%. The brutal truth is that the majority of people who manage to make it through med school and to the application stage still won’t match.

 

[FistLength]

I think it’s more what the grades represent. If OP is one of those students who can bang out 95%+ on tests but doesn’t because they decide to allocate that extra study time to something else like research that’s one thing. However, if they are giving class all they have and are a B student with some Cs mixed in then that is poor indicator they will do well enough on COMLEX or USMLE for ENT. They will definitely need that other stuff too though.

The DO match rate for ENT is sub-50%. The brutal truth is that the majority of people who manage to make it through med school and to the application stage still won’t match.

Don't disagree that it is an uphill battle. Just speaking from experience as part of the admissions committee for 2 years in a specialty that is not DO friendly, we have never once discussed year 1 and 2 grades. What happens is that people look at the MSPE statement, and somewhere in there pre clinical grades are listed if the reviewer even bothers to check. If you do well on clinicals, boards, research, and have strong LoR, no one in there right mind will nit pick at the pre clinical grades.

 

[deleted1099400]

Don't disagree that it is an uphill battle. Just speaking from experience as part of the admissions committee for 2 years in a specialty that is not DO friendly, we have never once discussed year 1 and 2 grades. What happens is that people look at the MSPE statement, and somewhere in there pre clinical grades are listed if the reviewer even bothers to check. If you do well on clinicals, boards, research, and have strong LoR, no one in there right mind will nit pick at the pre clinical grades.

Thanks for the insight, it really is appreciated. Yeah, anyone who's looking at surgical subspecialty, especially as a DO student, is aware of the situation that we've found ourselves in. It is good to have some perspective from the other side, will keep this in mind moving forward!

 

[Tragal Pointer]

A huge part of this will be your application strategy, and also dumb luck. With board exams being P/F for you, just assume that you need to be far above average in all areas at the least. That is just a given with ENT. Then, you have to go and crush your auditions. And you need to do as many auditions as you physically can. Beyond that, most advice is just speculation.

 

[Synchronous]

Residencies don’t look at grades per se… but they do look at quartiles. I graduated before all this pass/fail stuff happened so I don’t know how that’s going to play out. I imagine it’s going to make your class quartile even more important. Keep doing the research and try to get all your recommendations from ENT surgeons if possible. Do as well as you can on your boards and continue to build relationships in the field. At a lot of places having a known quantity (ie they know your work ethic, passion for the field, teachability, etc) will go a long way. Good luck!

 

[deleted1099400]

A huge part of this will be your application strategy, and also dumb luck. With board exams being P/F for you, just assume that you need to be far above average in all areas at the least. That is just a given with ENT. Then, you have to go and crush your auditions. And you need to do as many auditions as you physically can. Beyond that, most advice is just speculation.

Exactly, I have a game plan; my question was basically: I'm not top 20% is it even more out of the question than it was before. Thoughts on research year?

 

[deleted1099400]

Residencies don’t look at grades per se… but they do look at quartiles. I graduated before all this pass/fail stuff happened so I don’t know how that’s going to play out. I imagine it’s going to make your class quartile even more important. Keep doing the research and try to get all your recommendations from ENT surgeons if possible. Do as well as you can on your boards and continue to build relationships in the field. At a lot of places having a known quantity (ie they know your work ethic, passion for the field, teachability, etc) will go a long way. Good luck!

That is a good point; I'm not sure how we're ranked at my program, but I definitely will be trying to climb the ladder although it may be difficult. I have no idea, I tend to do a bit above average on exams but in reality I think there are a fair amount of people who are putting in the work and just crushing it. So I'll definitely be trying to spread out my efforts this coming semester.

Thoughts on research year applicants?

 

[Tragal Pointer]

My thoughts on a research year for a DO are "no". I would only recommend it if you have a personal connection with a program and can do research with facutly that also have a personal connection with said program. It is just too risky for a DO to do a year of non residency activity after graduation. Again, this is my opinion.