Most "future proof specialty"; or one with the least likely chance to have to deal with BS in the future

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Taking in every factor you can possibly think of, what do you think is the specialty that will have less BS to deal with in the future. These can include declining reimbursements rapidly etc. My guess would be something like neurology, because the job market will always be there because people don't really go into it as much, and the knowledge base is vast and less likely to be "run over" by mid-levels.

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Taking in every factor you can possibly think of, what do you think is the specialty that will have less BS to deal with in the future. These can include declining reimbursements rapidly etc. My guess would be something like neurology, because the job market will always be there because people don't really go into it as much, and the knowledge base is vast and less likely to be "run over" by mid-levels.

Since there are basically a 1000 ways by a 1000 different people to define BS in medicine, this is such a vague question that to answer it efficiently would likely require an actual professional labor consultant firm. On top of that, specialty trends change every couple years--psych was still barely competitive in 2015--so other than saying in 10 yrs primary care will continue to have crap tons of paperwork, GNS will still be malignant and overworked, and dermatology grossly overpaid there are no "facts" to give you an answer. Just opinion. If anything, your question should be the good old "Which specialty is the BEST?" Which will still get you opinions.
 
You have to pick the specialty that interests you the most. If you fully commit to your true passion then no matter how much “BS” comes your way, it will always feel like an honor and a privilege to serve your patients.





























































jk The answer is derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm derm lol
 
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They're all future-proof. The ones that really have to worry about the future are the low-level techs, not us. I recently watched a video of a self-guided phlebotomy robot that could find and pierce veins on its own -- in the future I could see teams of techs in all areas of medicine being replaced by fields of machines like those that would only require one or two nurses to operate.
 
In general, I'd say the most "future proof" specialties are:

-Specialties where there is too much knowledge required for a midlevel to be able to master. For example, pathology and radiology.

-Specialties where patients wouldn't want a midlevel to treat them. For example, most cancer patients wouldn't want a nurse (NP) being the primary person to treat their cancer. They want to see an oncologist.

-Specialties where the bread and butter stuff isn't able to be put into an easy algorithm.

-Probably surgical pecialties would be among the most future proof.
 
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Taking in every factor you can possibly think of, what do you think is the specialty that will have less BS to deal with in the future. These can include declining reimbursements rapidly etc. My guess would be something like neurology, because the job market will always be there because people don't really go into it as much, and the knowledge base is vast and less likely to be "run over" by mid-levels.

The specialties with complex or dangerous procedures will be the most protected.

I also think Radiology is one of the most future-proof as well. There is no mid level threat and I don't think AI will ever be a real threat.
 
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First I'd say most specialties are still likely going to be fine in the future. Probably the "worst" thing that will happen is doctors will be working harder and for less money than before and not be able to live in their ideal location without working even harder and/or for less money. But they'll never be out of a job somewhere in the US.

In general, I'd say the most "future proof" specialties are:
-Specialties where there is too much knowledge required for a midlevel to be able to master. For example, pathology and radiology.
-Specialties where patients wouldn't want a midlevel to treat them. For example, most cancer patients wouldn't want a nurse (NP) being the primary person to treat their cancer. They want to see an oncologist.
-Specialties where the bread and butter stuff isn't able to be put into an easy algorithm.
-Probably surgical specialties would be among the most future proof.

The pathology section of SDN does NOT seem to be all that encouraging, for various reasons lol
 
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The specialties with complex or dangerous procedures will be the most protected.

I also think Radiology is one of the most future-proof as well. There is no mid level threat and I don't think AI will ever be a real threat.

AI is already a real threat to clinical Radiologists. Within the next 15 years, AI could easily reduce the demand for clinical Radiologists by 80%. It will start with algorithms working in parallel with clinicians: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1546144019305964

However, once Admin realizes that they only need 1 Radiologist + Comprehensive Computer Vision SaaS to do the work that 5 Radiologists are doing now, what do you think happens to those other 4 Radiologists?

And on "complex procedures", see . How difficult do you think it will be to automate LVO MT in stroke with this tech? Will happen within 20 years.

Coal miners and Auto assembly line workers failed to evolve with a changing economy. Physicians should not think that their white collars make them immune to the same.
 
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Surgery maybe? Idk. The amount of internal medicine they have to know in addition to all the procedural skills makes them pretty out of mid-level reach imo. They do have the burden of usually having to be under a hospital which is an entirely different set of BS. One thing I had an attending point out to me once was that surgeons are great at maximizing their time doing "doctor" things, and turfing everything else that can be to non-physicians. I think that's a valuable attitude to have in your specialty to justify your existence.
 
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AI is already a real threat to clinical Radiologists. Within the next 15 years, AI could easily reduce the demand for clinical Radiologists by 80%. It will start with algorithms working in parallel with clinicians: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1546144019305964

However, once Admin realizes that they only need 1 Radiologist + Comprehensive Computer Vision SaaS to do the work that 5 Radiologists are doing now, what do you think happens to those other 4 Radiologists?

And on "complex procedures", see . How difficult do you think it will be to automate LVO MT in stroke with this tech? Will happen within 20 years.

Coal miners and Auto assembly line workers failed to evolve with a changing economy. Physicians should not think that their white collars make them immune to the same.


Mammo is one organ with one disease and a completely standard imaging protocol. Not impressed.
 
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Safest
-All the surgical subspecialties: Highly specialized. Largely impossible for low-level provider penetration. Limited by competitiveness and small number of residencies.

Mostly safe
-Gen surg: Again gated against LLPs, although wouldn't be surprised to see PAs doing chole/appys eventually. Brutal residency, terrible hours, and horrible culture allows most to self-select out of it.

-IR: Only not above because it's the flavor of the month right now in the competitive circles. Most hospitals don't need a ton of IR guys, so there's a possibility of flooding, but probably far off since there's only a small amount of residencies for now. Scope keeps increasing.

-Interventional neurology: thrombectomies are the future. High need, but don't need many so similar to IR in a sense.

-Neurology: You'll mostly be battling IMG/FMGs for spots. Not much exposure for most students and most think of neuroanatomy PTSD when they think of neurology. Seems like moderate/high need, although some of the small amount interested self-select out because they were unaware of how brutal residency is. Seen some LLP-mostly NPs in neuro, but I think most of them are too lazy to bother to learn neuro so seems safer.

-Psychiatry: Very high need. Can walk into fellowships. Plenty of NPs pretend to know what they're doing in this specialty, but the need is high enough it doesn't matter. A lot self-select out since having the worst patient population in medicine second to only vascular surgery.

-Rads: Previously had concerns about job market, but they tightened up their residency slots and seems like demand is there again. Anyone who thinks AI is an issue hasn't done a rads rotation and/or understand how the real world works.

Average
-Peds: Thankfully fairly unfriendly to hiring LLPs. but reimbursement/pay is very low so less interest.
-IM: Not outpatient, but inpatient side. Seems like average need. Some LLPs on the floors, but they mostly act as scribes for discharge summaries.
-Derm: All the old guys are selling themselves and their younger colleagues out to private equity companies (The same thing that happened years ago to EM already). Eventually they'll open a bunch of residencies themselves and flood the market (Like EM right now). Also tons of LLPs.
-Path: on the up and up it seems like. Plus most of them are 90 years old and have to retire soon. From what I've heard market is improving.

Not safe
-Anesthesia: More CRNAs than ever. CRNA leadership putting out weekly vitriol directly attacking actual anesthesiologists saying they're inferior to CRNAs, etc. Places outside of teritary care centers are staffed like 1MD to 10 CRNAs.
-EM: as already alluded to. Raped by coorpations/CMGs. Private groups gone long ago. Hundreds of residency spots added within the last 3-5 years alone, mainly from CMGs. Market is tightening all around and new grads having difficulty finding anything worthwhile. I'm sure some old guys on here who've been at their cush jobs for years will reference their weekly locums emails from a hospital that's has half it's lights on in a town where meth lab fires and Walmart is the only entertainment saying it's fine though.
-FM: Listen to your nurses talk to each other. I'm betting on average at least 30% of hospital nurses are in NP school right now. We went from about 3-4k NPs/year in the early 2000s, now it's ~40k/year graduating from these online degree mills (More than MD/DOs combined). They're already flooding FM first before anything.

Critical
-Rad/onc: Changes in how cancer is treated. Once coveted specialty, now had to SOAP a bunch of spots last year.

??
-Ob/gyn: Lots of alphabet soup LLPs trying to play ob/gyn. One of only specialties to decrease spots last year. Not sure of true need.
-PM&R: Still have no clue what these guys even do. Never seen one around. They're like unicorns.

As for BS: It all sucks. Find what you can tolerate the most.
 
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Safest
-All the surgical subspecialties: Highly specialized. Largely impossible for low-level provider penetration. Limited by competitiveness and small number of residencies.

Mostly safe
-Gen surg: Again gated against LLPs, although wouldn't be surprised to see PAs doing chole/appys eventually. Brutal residency, terrible hours, and horrible culture allows most to self-select out of it.

-IR: Only not above because it's the flavor of the month right now in the competitive circles. Most hospitals don't need a ton of IR guys, so there's a possibility of flooding, but probably far off since there's only a small amount of residencies for now. Scope keeps increasing.

-Interventional neurology: thrombectomies are the future. High need, but don't need many so similar to IR in a sense.

-Neurology: You'll mostly be battling IMG/FMGs for spots. Not much exposure for most students and most think of neuroanatomy PTSD when they think of neurology. Seems like moderate/high need, although some of the small amount interested self-select out because they were unaware of how brutal residency is. Seen some LLP-mostly NPs in neuro, but I think most of them are too lazy to bother to learn neuro so seems safer.

-Psychiatry: Very high need. Can walk into fellowships. Plenty of NPs pretend to know what they're doing in this specialty, but the need is high enough it doesn't matter. A lot self-select out since having the worst patient population in medicine second to only vascular surgery.

-Rads: Previously had concerns about job market, but they tightened up their residency slots and seems like demand is there again. Anyone who thinks AI is an issue hasn't done a rads rotation and/or understand how the real world works.

Average
-Peds: Thankfully fairly unfriendly to hiring LLPs. but reimbursement/pay is very low so less interest.
-IM: Not outpatient, but inpatient side. Seems like average need. Some LLPs on the floors, but they mostly act as scribes for discharge summaries.
-Derm: All the old guys are selling themselves and their younger colleagues out to private equity companies (The same thing that happened years ago to EM already). Eventually they'll open a bunch of residencies themselves and flood the market (Like EM right now). Also tons of LLPs.
-Path: on the up and up it seems like. Plus most of them are 90 years old and have to retire soon. From what I've heard market is improving.

Not safe
-Anesthesia: More CRNAs than ever. CRNA leadership putting out weekly vitriol directly attacking actual anesthesiologists saying they're inferior to CRNAs, etc. Places outside of teritary care centers are staffed like 1MD to 10 CRNAs.
-EM: as already alluded to. Raped by coorpations/CMGs. Private groups gone long ago. Hundreds of residency spots added within the last 3-5 years alone, mainly from CMGs. Market is tightening all around and new grads having difficulty finding anything worthwhile. I'm sure some old guys on here who've been at their cush jobs for years will reference their weekly locums emails from a hospital that's has half it's lights on in a town where meth lab fires and Walmart is the only entertainment saying it's fine though.
-FM: Listen to your nurses talk to each other. I'm betting on average at least 30% of hospital nurses are in NP school right now. We went from about 3-4k NPs/year in the early 2000s, now it's ~40k/year graduating from these online degree mills (More than MD/DOs combined). They're already flooding FM first before anything.

Critical
-Rad/onc: Changes in how cancer is treated. Once coveted specialty, now had to SOAP a bunch of spots last year.

??
-Ob/gyn: Lots of alphabet soup LLPs trying to play ob/gyn. One of only specialties to decrease spots last year. Not sure of true need.
-PM&R: Still have no clue what these guys even do. Never seen one around. They're like unicorns.
I like that we’re calling them low level providers now lol
 
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The pathology section of SDN does NOT seem to be all that encouraging, for various reasons lol
Lol true, very dismal! But good news maybe is I hear it’s mainly the IMGs who aren’t getting jobs. (Path has a lot of IMGs.) But any American from a decent university or academic program seems good.
 
Mammo is one organ with one disease and a completely standard imaging protocol. Not impressed.

I do not think you are appreciating how this will scale: End-to-end lung cancer screening with three-dimensional deep learning on low-dose chest computed tomography

Picture 500 of these deep learning algorithms all wrapped into a single SaaS, all with better performance than the average Radiologist, all focused on analyzing the image for a specific disease, with results returned in seconds because the SaaS is running on a distributed network via AWS. I doubt that most Chest-specialized Radiologists can even name 500 diagnoses to exclude on a standard Chest CT.
 
Fam med as we move from fee to service to bundled pay

Honestly anything but gas bc midlevels are overpaid boxes of rocks
I feel bad for anesthesia, all the CRNAs seem to be winning. Even the anesthesia forum thinks so. Every time someone asks about anesthesia, the anesthesia forum dissuades people from picking their own specialty! Not everyone is like that, some anesthesiologists are positive and recommend anesthesia, but enough aren’t that it’s kind of disconcerting. But their actual work is cool in my opinion.
 
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AI is already a real threat to clinical Radiologists. Within the next 15 years, AI could easily reduce the demand for clinical Radiologists by 80%. It will start with algorithms working in parallel with clinicians: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1546144019305964

However, once Admin realizes that they only need 1 Radiologist + Comprehensive Computer Vision SaaS to do the work that 5 Radiologists are doing now, what do you think happens to those other 4 Radiologists?

And on "complex procedures", see . How difficult do you think it will be to automate LVO MT in stroke with this tech? Will happen within 20 years.

Coal miners and Auto assembly line workers failed to evolve with a changing economy. Physicians should not think that their white collars make them immune to the same.


I don't think it'll be 15 yrs, more like 30-40. But yes, it'll happen, and soon. Same is also going to happen to Path, so the idea that those are the two "most future proof" gave me a pretty good chuckle.
 
I feel bad for anesthesia, all the CRNAs seem to be winning. Even the anesthesia forum thinks so. Every time someone asks about anesthesia, the anesthesia forum dissuades people from picking their own specialty! Not everyone is like that, some anesthesiologists are positive and recommend anesthesia, but enough aren’t that it’s kind of disconcerting. But their actual work is cool in my opinion.

Hard to feel bad for anesthesia when they have 400,000+ reasons to love their jobs.
 
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In general, I'd say the most "future proof" specialties are:

-Specialties where there is too much knowledge required for a midlevel to be able to master. For example, pathology and radiology.

-Specialties where patients wouldn't want a midlevel to treat them. For example, most cancer patients wouldn't want a nurse (NP) being the primary person to treat their cancer. They want to see an oncologist.

-Specialties where the bread and butter stuff isn't able to be put into an easy algorithm.

-Probably surgical pecialties would be among the most future proof.

Are you in oncology?
Just curious because I definitely get reports back from oncologists offices on my patients and it’s a PA or NP who conducted the visit. These are mostly follow up and check in visits, but still I think PAs and NPs are invading every specialty. So I’m just curious if patients are actually complaining about this.
 
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Taking in every factor you can possibly think of, what do you think is the specialty that will have less BS to deal with in the future. These can include declining reimbursements rapidly etc. My guess would be something like neurology, because the job market will always be there because people don't really go into it as much, and the knowledge base is vast and less likely to be "run over" by mid-levels.
Plastic surgery.
 
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Yeah an anesthesiologist I know sat down with someone I know who was thinking of anesthesia (now is an anesthesia resident and seems to love it) and talked out the pros/cons. Pretty sure it helped especially since this was a senior attending whose hospital switched over to having a lot of CRNAs (due to being cheaper) than before. A good chunk of his job is to babysit them pretty much.
One of the main reasons I first looked at anesthesia was because of the low paperwork. Granted that's still true in an MD only model, but those are getting rarer each year. More often what I see now is an MD babysitting 6 or more CRNAs and running around doing preops/signing charts all day. Makes me sad but they did this to themselves.
 
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Aren't NP's/PA's affecting IM hospitalists as well?
Not as much. Because NPs/PA increase length of hospital stays and overall cost even tho they themselves are cheaper. They aren't good at diagnosising or treating and will get your bills rejected by insurance. Hospital is one area where 'providers' can be compared very easily.
 
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Any word on mid-level activity in pediatrics inpatient services and higher acuity pediatric subspecialties like NICU/PICU?
 
Gas will get down to who do you, the patient, want sitting at the head of the table. A physician or a nurse. If hospitals can hire crnas cheaper, they will. Anesthesiologists will have to market themselves better and go to all physician groups. Actively call out hospitals hiring a harem of crnas covered by a single non boarded anesthesiologist . Other midlevels will get the same treatment. Mid level care is not better, just cheaper.
 
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I like that we’re calling them low level providers now lol
Well if we are providers, then we certainly need to differentiate. Low level certainly describes thier training compared to ours (especially online NP's).
 
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Safest
-All the surgical subspecialties: Highly specialized. Largely impossible for low-level provider penetration. Limited by competitiveness and small number of residencies.

Mostly safe
-Gen surg: Again gated against LLPs, although wouldn't be surprised to see PAs doing chole/appys eventually. Brutal residency, terrible hours, and horrible culture allows most to self-select out of it.

-IR: Only not above because it's the flavor of the month right now in the competitive circles. Most hospitals don't need a ton of IR guys, so there's a possibility of flooding, but probably far off since there's only a small amount of residencies for now. Scope keeps increasing.

-Interventional neurology: thrombectomies are the future. High need, but don't need many so similar to IR in a sense.

-Neurology: You'll mostly be battling IMG/FMGs for spots. Not much exposure for most students and most think of neuroanatomy PTSD when they think of neurology. Seems like moderate/high need, although some of the small amount interested self-select out because they were unaware of how brutal residency is. Seen some LLP-mostly NPs in neuro, but I think most of them are too lazy to bother to learn neuro so seems safer.

-Psychiatry: Very high need. Can walk into fellowships. Plenty of NPs pretend to know what they're doing in this specialty, but the need is high enough it doesn't matter. A lot self-select out since having the worst patient population in medicine second to only vascular surgery.

-Rads: Previously had concerns about job market, but they tightened up their residency slots and seems like demand is there again. Anyone who thinks AI is an issue hasn't done a rads rotation and/or understand how the real world works.

Average
-Peds: Thankfully fairly unfriendly to hiring LLPs. but reimbursement/pay is very low so less interest.
-IM: Not outpatient, but inpatient side. Seems like average need. Some LLPs on the floors, but they mostly act as scribes for discharge summaries.
-Derm: All the old guys are selling themselves and their younger colleagues out to private equity companies (The same thing that happened years ago to EM already). Eventually they'll open a bunch of residencies themselves and flood the market (Like EM right now). Also tons of LLPs.
-Path: on the up and up it seems like. Plus most of them are 90 years old and have to retire soon. From what I've heard market is improving.

Not safe
-Anesthesia: More CRNAs than ever. CRNA leadership putting out weekly vitriol directly attacking actual anesthesiologists saying they're inferior to CRNAs, etc. Places outside of teritary care centers are staffed like 1MD to 10 CRNAs.
-EM: as already alluded to. Raped by coorpations/CMGs. Private groups gone long ago. Hundreds of residency spots added within the last 3-5 years alone, mainly from CMGs. Market is tightening all around and new grads having difficulty finding anything worthwhile. I'm sure some old guys on here who've been at their cush jobs for years will reference their weekly locums emails from a hospital that's has half it's lights on in a town where meth lab fires and Walmart is the only entertainment saying it's fine though.
-FM: Listen to your nurses talk to each other. I'm betting on average at least 30% of hospital nurses are in NP school right now. We went from about 3-4k NPs/year in the early 2000s, now it's ~40k/year graduating from these online degree mills (More than MD/DOs combined). They're already flooding FM first before anything.

Critical
-Rad/onc: Changes in how cancer is treated. Once coveted specialty, now had to SOAP a bunch of spots last year.

??
-Ob/gyn: Lots of alphabet soup LLPs trying to play ob/gyn. One of only specialties to decrease spots last year. Not sure of true need.
-PM&R: Still have no clue what these guys even do. Never seen one around. They're like unicorns.

As for BS: It all sucks. Find what you can tolerate the most.
I've never seen or meet LLPS/NPs in neuro lol. I think neurology is pretty safe.
 
Gas will get down to who do you, the patient, want sitting at the head of the table. A physician or a nurse. If hospitals can hire crnas cheaper, they will. Anesthesiologists will have to market themselves better and go to all physician groups. Actively call out hospitals hiring a harem of crnas covered by a single non boarded anesthesiologist . Other midlevels will get the same treatment. Mid level care is not better, just cheaper.
Only problem is that only 44% of people think anesthesiologists are physicians. 42% think they are part of another medical professional and 13 don't know the answer. Nursing board signs off on 'anesthesiologist' title
 
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My personal opinions in order:

#1 Surgery and all surgical subspecialties including IR
-No/least threats from midlevels
-No/least threats from AI
-Excellent job market
-Very high income

#2 (tie) Psychiatry
-No/least threats from AI
-Moderate threats from Low Level Providers
-Excellent job market
-Decent income

#2 (tie) Radiology
-Moderate threat from AI (although personally I think it's far overblown)
-No/least threats from midlevels
-Very good and improving job market
-Very high income

For the course of a 25-30 year career any of these fields are likely to have great job security and stable income
 
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It bears mentioning in any discussion of being "future proof" specialties that plenty of the untouchable surgical specialties are only a reimbursement change away from huge income fluctuations. Obviously everyone on SDN gets super jazzed about Medicare for All, but even within the context of our current system all it takes is CMS deciding to change the reimbursement for certain procedures to suddenly make derm the new FM, or deciding that screening colonoscopies are over reimbursed to make GI the least competitive IM subspecialty or whatever. Simultaneously, reimbursement changes could suddenly make ID or nephro lucrative. None of this has anything to do with job markets, NPs/PAs, or oversupply--though obviously those can have an effect too.

If you try and predict the future too closely it's probably 50/50 whether you look like a genius or an idiot, and that's probably being generous. My extremely uneducated opinion (about the same level as everyone else here, I'd guess) is that the more hyperspecialized and small your field is the more you're vulnerable to new technology, job market changes, and reimbursement changes (for example pathology and rad onc).

(Also there are 100% NPs in neuro, the stroke team at the last hospital I was at was one or two NPs and sometimes a neuro resident.)
 
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Are you in oncology?
Just curious because I definitely get reports back from oncologists offices on my patients and it’s a PA or NP who conducted the visit. These are mostly follow up and check in visits, but still I think PAs and NPs are invading every specialty. So I’m just curious if patients are actually complaining about this.

Not oncology, just a loud-mouthed med student. Personally I'm hoping for pulm/cc though.

That's true, good point, PAs/NPs in every specialty, though I think some specialties are worse off than others. For example, I don't surgical PAs are a real threat to surgeons today.

From what I've seen, again I'm just a med student, but patients usually still want to and do see the oncologist for first time visits. Like you said, some follow ups are with PAs/NPs, but I thought that depends how things are going with their treatment. Follow-ups can also be with an oncologist from what I've seen. In other words I think at some point they want to see an oncologist, but not necessarily for every visit. It'd probably be strange for most patients to only be seen by midlevels from beginning to end.

However, from what I've seen, some midlevels like to pass themselves off as physicians, or at least not say explicitly that they are a midlevel, so I wonder if patients are even aware they're seeing a PA/NP for example and not an oncologist.

I've also seen that oncologists seem to live and die by the NCCN clinical guidelines. They seem to stick fairly closely to the NCCN. So in this respect oncology is easy to put into something like an algorithm maybe? Not sure.

Maybe in the end we'll all be replaced by midlevels, but I think some specialties will take much longer than others.

Hope that's helpful.
 
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Hard to feel bad for anesthesia when they have 400,000+ reasons to love their jobs.
Lol, that's true anesthesia still making lots of money, but to be fair the question wasn't about money but about "future proof". I think a specialty could be making tons of money today, but have a less than bright future. Look at pathologists, they make on average around $350,000-$400,000, for a nice lifestyle, but only if they can find a job!

(To be fair to pathologists, it seems like it's really the pathologists who are IMGs who are the ones having the most difficulty finding jobs. Or those who are geographically limited. US MDs/DOs graduating from good academic or university programs seem to be able to get a job. Starting salaries are low, around $200,000 I have heard, but when they become partner it's much better, closer to $350,000 or $400,000.)

Looking at the anesthesia forum, a lot of them are recommending med students think twice about anesthesia. They make a lot of money, as do most procedural specialties, but they're saying if you have a choice, then pick a better specialty. Not all of the anesthesiologists are saying this, some are very optimistic about anesthesia, but there are enough saying it that's it's kind of worrying. And most the surgical specialties, several of the IM subspecialties (cards, GI, pulm/cc, hematology/oncology) also make at least as much as anesthesia $400,000+. This is an older MGMA from 2016, but probably approximately accurate enough:



Also look at other things besides money like hours worked overall, RVUs, medical liability, etc.

If you like being "the boss", anesthesia often isn't regarded that way in the OR. That's usually the surgeon. And even in private practice, where anesthesiologists and surgeons get along, everyone including anesthesioloigsts have to wait for the surgeon. If the surgeon wants to operate on a weekend, or wants to stay late for an add-on case, even though you want to be home, then an anesthesiologist will have to cover them. Surgeons are the ones that bring in the patients and the money so hospitals give them a lot of respect, but anesthesiologists don't have their own patients and are seen more as someone who is necessary to facilitate the surgical case. Anesthesiologists are like the IT department of the company/hospital, no one really appreciates their true value (which is very valuable), but they're regarded more as closer to a "necessary evil" to be able to do business. I'm not saying this is right, I think anesthesiologists deserve far more respect etc. for everything they do, but that's how it seems to be for them, even though it's not right. On the plus side, anesthesiologists don't always have to carry a pager like often surgeons do. They don't have to take their work home, once they are done, they are done. But when they are on call, it's often in-house call, but the older anesthesiologists seem to be saying it's not always pleasant taking in-house calls and being in the hospital and away from your family once you're married or have kids or are just older. Surgery is horrible during training, and when you're establishing yourself for the first few years, but you can build your surgical practice how you want. I think it's usually the "big" surgeries like general surgery, trauma, neurosurgeons, and cardiothoracic that are always intense throughout your career, with a much worse lifestyle than anesthesia. But others like ophtho, ENT, uro, plastics seem to do better. Of course that's why they're so competitive.

And of course there are CRNAs. The anesthesia forum a lot of them are saying the future is supervising CRNAs. That's already true for the majority of anesthesia groups or practices according to Richard Novak at Stanford (see his website the Anesthesia Consultant I believe it's called). And it's likely only going to increase. So their job isn't always getting to do their own cases, but managing 2-4 CRNAs who are doing the cases, and going around the OR putting out fires. I guess how easy or hard your job is as an anesthesiologist depends on how good your CRNAs are and how much you trust them. I think the West coast is still largely independent practice for anesthesiologists, they are still sitting their own cases for the most part, but much the rest of the country seems to be gradually taken over by CRNAs. And eventually it might hit the West coast too. Plus there are many states where CRNAs can practice independently, and even where they can't, CRNAs can be supervised by a surgeon rather than an anesthesiologist since my understanding is the requirement is they have to be supervised by a physician, it doesn't say which type of physician. So people have to mind not being in a more supervisory role as an anesthesiologist (except for places like the West coast), and jumping in when there's something the CRNA can't handle.

And look at Trends for the Future of Anesthesiology from a Stanford anesthesiologist:


But all that said I really still like anesthesiology as a specialty. The problems are mostly related to things not inherent to the specialty, like politics, CRNAs, etc., but the specialty itself is really cool. You do have to have the personality for it though (e.g. remain calm when patients are crashing). It's not for the feint of heart, and some would argue they'd be willing to take less money for less stress, liability, being their own boss, etc. But that's subjective and person-dependent. Some people would be bored by doing clinics all day for example.
 
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All of this talk about AI... reimbursement... and LLP creep... You want to know what’s future proof?!

Boobs! Boobs are timeless! And the doctors that turn normal great boobs in huge fantastic boobs... Well those docs are always going to have a job! And ain’t no women going to let some NP, who got their degree from ITT Tech get fresh their assets!

tl;dr

Surgical subspecialties are the most future proof....
 
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Psychiatry is the only field that has a large and easy to sustain cash only market. Cosmetic plastic surgery is a close second, but that tends to require a lot more marketing and hustle than a psych practice. People tend to not want to shell out cash for NPs. It's also a field that is unlikely to suffer much intrusion from AI. Most midlevels also have a hard time functioning independently due to lack of ability with regard to challenging patients, the sort of patients that tend to find themselves being seen by psych rather than PCPs to begin with.
 
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Lol, that's true anesthesia still making lots of money, but to be fair the question wasn't about money but about "future proof".

I personally just find the CRNA thing overblown. I'm about as certain as one can be without actually looking that if you go back 20 years on SDN, there are people saying anesthesiology is doomed from CRNAS. In the following 20 years, what has happened to anesthesiology? A quick google from a variety of years shows me that their salary has done nothing but go up despite more and more CRNAs entering the market.

As for anesthesiologists warning people not to go into that field, I take that with a grain of salt as well. There's this humorous phenomenon on here where if you go into just about any specialty section on SDN, someone, somewhere is comparing their field to another and saying "those guys have it right and we're doomed". You look at anesthesiology and they all say they should have been surgeons or emergency docs. You look at emergency med and they're all saying to look at some other specialty because they're over-expanding their own residencies and their salaries will never be the same. Look at critical care and they think they're doomed to oversupply due to NPs filling spots. I never look at the derm threads but they're probably the only ones not saying this, lol.

I think the take-away from this thread is that all of this is purely conjecture and no one can predict the future of any specialty. At the end of the day, doctors, in general, will always be in demand. I'm not going to base my future around worrying about clinics hiring NPs or PAs to do their follow-up med checks and whatnot, but that's just me. In my work experience prior to med school, I have found the physician:NP/PA model actually works well despite what you read on SDN. When it takes 5 months to see a specialist, it's hard to argue that it's a bad thing that they hire an NP/PA to do med check appointments and whatnot to free up their time for the people who really need to see them.
 
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-PM&R: Still have no clue what these guys even do. Never seen one around. They're like unicorns.

As for BS: It all sucks. Find what you can tolerate the most.

Just building off this as a plus for PM&R having a bright future. It's super true that barely anyone knows what they do so it puts them into this weird safety a lot of specialties don't have. Though I'm just a med student, I've never heard of physiatrists complaining about mid-level encroachment (except in pain oddly enough). Physiatrists just have worked themselves in a weird niche role, intersecting neuro, IM, and ortho, that somehow still stays very broad in scope. Idk much but I really think PM&R has worked themselves into a very nice looking future.

PM&R aside, I really agree with most people that most specialties are going to have some level of a role on patient care for the very foreseeable future. Roles just may be adjusted and pay may change.
 
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I personally just find the CRNA thing overblown. I'm about as certain as one can be without actually looking that if you go back 20 years on SDN, there are people saying anesthesiology is doomed from CRNAS. In the following 20 years, what has happened to anesthesiology? A quick google from a variety of years shows me that their salary has done nothing but go up despite more and more CRNAs entering the market.

As for anesthesiologists warning people not to go into that field, I take that with a grain of salt as well. There's this humorous phenomenon on here where if you into just about any specialty section on SDN, someone, somewhere is comparing their field to another and saying "those guys have it right and we're doomed". You look at anesthesiology and they all say they should have been surgeons or emergency docs. You look at emergency med and they're all saying to look at some other specialty because they're over-expanding their own residencies and their salaries will never be the same. Look at critical care and they think they're doomed to oversupply due to NPs filling spots. I never look at the derm threads but they're probably the only ones not saying this, lol.

I think the take-away from this thread is that all of this is purely conjecture and no one can predict the future of any specialty. At the end of the day, doctors, in general, will always be in demand. I'm not going to base my future around worrying about clinics hiring NPs or PAs to do their follow-up med checks and whatnot, but that's just me. In my work experience prior to med school, I have found the physician:NP/PA model actually works well despite what you read on SDN. When it takes 5 months to see a specialist, it's hard to argue that it's a bad thing that they hire an NP/PA to do med check appointments and whatnot to free up their time for the people who really need to see them.

What's also funny is that the same replies as yours (and mine) come up every year too, if you look at past threads on SDN! :) So I guess every year there might be different actors but we're all playing the same roles and saying the same things in the same drama. It's interesting.

I think a lot of med students and doctors tend to be risk averse. We want something secure and stable. We want guarantees. It makes sense in a way because we've invested so much of our lives, time, effort, money, and other tangibles and intangibles into medicine. We want to be sure. We want certainty. Plus if we get a bunch of hyper intelligent and hyper analytical people into a room (like SDN), which most med students and doctors are, we could easily over analyze everything and worry ourselves to death. However like you said I think doctors in all specialties (even pathology!) will likely have a job. It might not be their ideal job, it might not be for as much money as they hoped for, or not as good of a life/work balance as they had thought it would be, or not in the location they want to live, but doctors are still going to have a job where they'll always be at least middle class. Many people would love to become doctors, but can't for many different reasons.

All that said, I think there are real uncertainties in the future of health care. Things that didn't exist in the past. I'm talking about big issues like what our health care system will look like. For example, will we end up with socialized medicine and universal health care as many Americans want? Medicare for all. If so, then that could drastically affect how doctors are paid and how we work. It could be better or worse, which I'm sure we could debate for hours, but it would be a radical change that hasn't happened in the past. Another example is that it's true midlevels (like CRNAs) have existed for decades in the past, but CRNAs weren't able to practice independently in so many states, and same or similar with the nature and scope of NP and PA practices. Also, it used to be that the mainstream model for anesthesia was one anesthesiologist for one patient/OR, but today the mainstream model is anesthesia care teams (ACTs) where one anesthesiologist oversees (for example) four CRNAs.

In the end, I agree with you there's a lot of circularity to what's being said today vs. in the past. Lots of doctors faced similar challenges in the past and came out fine and my hunch is most doctors today will likely still come out fine a couple of decades from now. At the same time there are significant events on the horizon that could potentially affect all specialties, though some specialties may be more drastically affected than other specialties, depending on what happens, and some would argue anesthesia is a canary in the coal mine, but like you said no one can predict the future. In the end, we have to just do what we enjoy and find reasonable given the facts we have today, not the facts we don't have tomorrow.
 
Just building off this as a plus for PM&R having a bright future. It's super true that barely anyone knows what they do so it puts them into this weird safety a lot of specialties don't have. Though I'm just a med student, I've never heard of physiatrists complaining about mid-level encroachment (except in pain oddly enough). Physiatrists just have worked themselves in a weird niche role, intersecting neuro, IM, and ortho, that somehow still stays very broad in scope. Idk much but I really think PM&R has worked themselves into a very nice looking future.

PM&R aside, I really agree with most people that most specialties are going to have some level of a role on patient care for the very foreseeable future. Roles just may be adjusted and pay may change.
To the bolded, not really that odd. If it makes money they go after it hard to “provide access” or whatever. Only mon-fri 8-5 of course.

Med students are just the same. The difference is for us there’s just way higher barriers to entry compared to a LLP (seriously loving this) who just applies and goes for it.
 
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To the bolded, not really that odd. If it makes money they go after it hard to “provide access” or whatever. Only mon-fri 8-5 of course.

Med students are just the same. The difference is for us there’s just way higher barriers to entry compared to a LLP (seriously loving this) who just applies and goes for it.
Yea definitely. I just found it odd when I heard about it because pain procedures can go really bad if you don't know what you're doing. I guess that can be the case with anesthesia though.

Pain is a scary one they are moving in on because, from what I have been told by pain guys, it's all about knowing when and when not to do procedures in order to best help the patient. Mid-levels, let alone other docs, tend to not know that. Scary stuff.
 
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I still don’t believe that PMR exist. They like unicorns. You see them online but not in real life
I shadowed a PMR doc who focused on pain management and worker's comp cases, it was pretty depressing and he genuinely seemed to hate his job lol
 
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Yea definitely. I just found it odd when I heard about it because pain procedures can go really bad if you don't know what you're doing. I guess that can be the case with anesthesia though.

Pain is a scary one they are moving in on because, from what I have been told by pain guys, it's all about knowing when and when not to do procedures in order to best help the patient. Mid-levels, let alone other docs, tend to not know that. Scary stuff.
This is fine in their world. If they fall, there’s always a safety net. As a result, they typically are more cavalier about stuff than physicians since the consequences for messing up are at most a slap on the wrist.
 
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This is fine in their world. If they fall, there’s always a safety net. As a result, they typically are more cavalier about stuff than physicians since the consequences for messing up are at most a slap on the wrist.
Jesus, so if the patient is worse off they genuinely just shrug it off?
 
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I vote psychiatry due to reason's already elaborated by @Mad Jack .

I also vote infectious disease because there's not a lot of people interested in going into it so it's low competition. Reimbursement is lower but satisfaction is pretty good, antibiotic resistance is increasing (and midlevils might actually help job security for ID because they're some of the worst around here about giving out antibiotics for anything and everything), and we'll never eradicate the bugs.
 
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Jesus, so if the patient is worse off they genuinely just shrug it off?
Then it’s “Hey I’m just the [insert specialty here] NP/PA!” Then the doc is on the hook.
 
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