Most Chill, easiest, safest Caribbean Medical School

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pharmadentist said:
I'm not so informed but I thought (and could be wrong), that Sackler graduates are basically treated on par as domestic graduates due to the unique way their partnership works. I would consider it, to some extent, just another US medical school in some ways. Their match statistics are quite decent.
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If one has the stats for sackler,one has the stats for a us school. According to gonnif .
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libertyyne said:
No. You don't have to be Jewish to attend touro.
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Following up on libertyyyne's answer - I think the goal of the program is to build a diverse set of candidates. Like in any country, there are various racist elements in Israel. However, I've heard the Sackler is very welcoming to diversity people from different countries/religions etc., I cannot verify that, its just what I read on another post.
 
pharmadentist said:
If someone wants an MD, they can just go to the place where it is easiest to get.
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Which is none of the Caribbean schools because of the dismal match rate they have. Any quick search on these forums will show the many reasons why Caribbean schools are such a bad decision. Plus, if you are coming into the field because you want a "chill job" with good pay, than as a future physician, I do not want you as a future colleague. Please stick to dentistry where you are hard pressed to have someone's life in the balance and don't occupy the spot for someone who is truly passionate about being a positive change in this world.
 
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gonnif said:
Its a perfectly open, diverse and solid program. From its location and following the Jewish calendar, it has pluses for Jews. The program is English and its quality is on par with any US medical school. However, while its residency placement is good, and it is approved by NY states, it is still is an International School and you have go thru those hoops.
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Appreciate the insight. I did not know that.
 
HFlash said:
Which is none of the Caribbean schools because of the dismal match rate they have. Any quick search on these forums will show the many reasons why Caribbean schools are such a bad decision. Plus, if you are coming into the field because you want a "chill job" with good pay, than as a future physician, I do not want you as a future colleague. Please stick to dentistry where you are hard pressed to have someone's life in the balance and don't occupy the spot for someone who is truly passionate about being a positive change in this world.
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You are entitled to your opinion. But, I have met doctors who went into the career for a chill, respectable job with good pay. There is nothing wrong with that. A good and comfortable income and low job stress (or at least positive stress) can mean a more satisfying life for many people. To me, chasing a career to live a comfortable life is nothing less than commendable.

With that said, I wish you only the best on your future endeavours.
 
libertyyne said:
If one has the stats for sackler,one has the stats for a us school. According to gonnif .
Click to expand...

Would someone pick Sackler over a US school given that it still is an international school? I'd imagine they wouldnt be first pick in the match given that international distinction.
 
LutGholein said:
Would someone pick Sackler over a US school given that it still is an international school? I'd imagine they wouldnt be first pick in the match given that international distinction.
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I have no idea, i am assuming hassidic hebrews pick sackler over another institution considering it would be easier for them to maintain their religious practices. Today is the first time i have even heard about sackler.@gonnif could perhaps illuminate us with the special place sackler holds in IMGs.
 
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LutGholein said:
Would someone pick Sackler over a US school given that it still is an international school? I'd imagine they wouldnt be first pick in the match given that international distinction.
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I think the reason is that Sackler seems to be very networked in New York. Additionally, the chance to live in Israel, learn Hebrew and potentially Arabic, and especially for Jewish or maybe even Muslim students, the ability to practice their religion more easily may be benefits.

However, you are right. Sackler is kind of a back plan that is far more superior to the Caribbean, but far inferior to US Allopathic Schools.
 
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hey guys, back a few years ago, I was looking strongly at University of Queensland in Brisbane Australia. They do rotations in New Orleans. Is this a better option than Carib route? I have not seen anyone rag on this program. Just curious.
 
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Riles said:
hey guys, back a few years ago, I was looking strongly at University of Queensland in Brisbane Australia. They do rotations in New Orleans. Is this a better option than Carib route? I have not seen anyone rag on this program. Just curious.
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For sure. Queensland is itself a top medical school (and dental for that matter), and is itself respected around the world. The only hard part would be that the training would not be USMLE focused. However, UQ Admission is not a free ticket, one has to earn it.
 
This is all one needs to know about going to a medical school abroad.
upload_2016-11-30_22-19-24.png
 
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Are we all just gonna sit here and act like we didn't read that post about "just studying and boning" and go on our merry way?
 
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Riles said:
hey guys, back a few years ago, I was looking strongly at University of Queensland in Brisbane Australia. They do rotations in New Orleans. Is this a better option than Carib route? I have not seen anyone rag on this program. Just curious.
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Yes I heard you don't even have to take exams or boards you just go right into orthopedic surgery and make 500k+ in 1 year of training
 
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The most chill, easiest, safest way to approach going to medical school in the Caribbean is to not go at all.
 
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gonnif said:
Sackler, and to a lesser extent the other Israeli schools, are in a different class when compared to most other off-shore schools. To understand why, I have to give you some history

Beginning in the late 1960s, urban decay, drugs, crime, etc was ravaging the inner cities, prompting "white flight", including much of the medical community. New York City was hit especially hard as it had (and still has) the largest municipal hospital system in the world. While Nelson Rockefeller, one of the grandsons of the oil tycoon John D. Rockefeller, was Governor of New York he built up the SUNY system including the medical schools. But it still wasnt enough. Trying to recruit doctors from oversea "legitimate" medical schools wasnt enough. So the the influential Jewish medical community helped get a law passed in 1981 that allowed the NYS office of professions to approve and register overseas schools essentially making them as if they were in the state. Sackler was one of the first. This was also before all residencies where part of the Match (which didnt become complete until circa 2005). This approval allowed complete freedom for these schools to run most if not all clinical rotations in New York. (As an aside, this doctor shortage and limited spots in medical schools also prompted the beginning of the Caribbean medical school phenomenon with the founding of St. George's. Also, because of Nelson Rockefeller's bad back and use of an Osteopath, it was the beginning of DO's getting full physician and hospital privileges) . So many of these students where highly qualified but couldnt get a very limited medical school spot in the states. In 1980 or so, the acceptance ratio was nearly 4:1. About 28% of applicants got accepted

Sackler, unlike the later Caribbean schools, is a legitimate university, from a country with high "western" standards of medicine following the British model, with a limited class size (now 43) and was not intended as a profit making venture. It was also seen as a place where Jewish students could get a spot in medical school without discrimination. The Ivies especially, with the "blue blood" culture had set quotas on Jews thru the 1960 and early 1970's. This latter was formally dropped only to be replaced by a series of agreements between Ivy UGs and med schools basically guaranteeing seats. Even more so some schools purposely had a Saturday morning seminar to keep religious Jews out. All this led to Sackler and the big "3/4" Caribbean schools to have most clinicals in New York, having students network, and having placement into residencies (prior to NRMP as we know it today.). At one point in 1980s-1990s something like 1/3 of all doctors did some of their medical training (either medical school, residency, or fellowship) in NYC. I would venture say a sizable number of religious jews (both Hasidic and Orthodox) use Einstein and Sackler as their top choices. Perhaps 1/3 or more a Sackler class is this group.

This went on until 1990 when their was a shift in undergraduates. Prior to this medicine was a big goal for students. But with rise of PC and computers as well high level finance and business, many students who would have been premeds now shifted. This was also when HMOs and doctor's liability insurance when making the profession less attractive. So acceptance rates dropped from nearly 4:1 in 1996 to 2:1 by 2003. Along with this drop the quality of applicants dropped and was the beginning of the Caribbean real corporate business profit model. with huge class sizes and taking any warm bodies they can find. Since Sackler did not go this route, its reputation has stayed solid. And again, it is different than off shore schools in that 1) legitimate university; 2) follows a strong western medicine standard overseen by a "real" government; 3) its class size 63) is small ; 4) it is competitive to get a slot; 5) it has attrition rates as good if not better than most US schools ; 6) So virtually everyone who starts earns a degree and gets a residency slot. These slots are reported and I would say the graduates are competitive.

So in education and reputation, Sackler is much more like a US school

Overview of History/Law in NYS
http://www.iaomc.org/nyef.htm

AAMC applicant pool chart
https://www.aamc.org/download/153708/data/
Click to expand...

Thanks @gonnif !! Did not know about this side of medical history! I had seen that NYITCOM was partly founded by Nelson Rockerfeller-- I was always stumped as to why he had any stake in that formation but it now makes sense!

So Sackler in the eyes of PDs is basically weighed as any other US Allo school with that unique cultural emphasis-- that's pretty cool!
Given that Sackler is probably overlapping to some degree with the Einstein student body--does this effect reach beyond NY(or the east coast in general)? Or would Sackler face any pushback from PDs in the west coast as an "international" school even though it's up to western standards from a legit university?
 
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I personally, from just researching around, can tell that there is none, if any stigma for a Sackler graduate. I firmly believe it is a good choice.
 
Only go to a Caribbean school if school is already easy for you. If school stresses you out already, a Caribbean school is going to amplify that 100x.

You need to know that you will be in the top quartile of Step 1 to safely match as a US IMG. Even If you have an average score it is still likely a safe bet..

But you need to know you are capable of matching an AMG on the step before you start in a Caribbean school. You don't want to repeat multiple terms and then get a 203 on step 1 and get no interviews. And then be $350000+ in debt.


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coffee-doc said:
the whole place turns into a huge **** fest / orgy". Nobody gives a **** about that awkward first couple months where people discuss "who is talking to who". anymore. All they do is study and bone. And on an island filled with rich kids, there's probably going to be a lot of attractive students.
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Are you sure you're not a sneaky St. George shill? Because I suddenly feel like I should have applied to the Carribbean.
 
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Saifa said:
Something not often discussed-- even if you DO land a residency and try to enter a practice it seems you will likely end up laughed out of whatever region you're in unless you're the only physician for like 50 miles. Everyone's heard of "that fake doctor that went to Granada or something" in passing.
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This is not entirely true. There is a dear (foreign-born) friend of our family, a Caribbean medical school graduate with an allopathic residency and fellowship, who is a highly regarded Cleveland Clinic physician in a highly competitive specialty. However, this Caribbean graduate has been a stellar student with stellar Step scores and incredible LORs and, as of today, has already been an attending for a good number of years. One of the brightest people I know since childhood. :)

And yet, if anyone were to pursue a Caribbean path, I would warn them of numerous traps down that dangerous avenue. One has got to have incredible Step scores and other regalia to succeed to a US residency. Afterwards, it does not matter whether you are a US or Caribbean graduate.
 
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gonnif said:
Sackler, and to a lesser extent the other Israeli schools, are in a different class when compared to most other off-shore schools. To understand why, I have to give you some history

Beginning in the late 1960s, urban decay, drugs, crime, etc was ravaging the inner cities, prompting "white flight", including much of the medical community. New York City was hit especially hard as it had (and still has) the largest municipal hospital system in the world. While Nelson Rockefeller, one of the grandsons of the oil tycoon John D. Rockefeller, was Governor of New York he built up the SUNY system including the medical schools. But it still wasnt enough. Trying to recruit doctors from oversea "legitimate" medical schools wasnt enough. So the the influential Jewish medical community helped get a law passed in 1981 that allowed the NYS office of professions to approve and register overseas schools essentially making them as if they were in the state. Sackler was one of the first. This was also before all residencies where part of the Match (which didnt become complete until circa 2005). This approval allowed complete freedom for these schools to run most if not all clinical rotations in New York. (As an aside, this doctor shortage and limited spots in medical schools also prompted the beginning of the Caribbean medical school phenomenon with the founding of St. George's. Also, because of Nelson Rockefeller's bad back and use of an Osteopath, it was the beginning of DO's getting full physician and hospital privileges). So many of these students where highly qualified but couldnt get a very limited medical school spot in the states. In 1980 or so, the acceptance ratio was nearly 4:1. About 28% of applicants got accepted

Sackler, unlike the later Caribbean schools, is a legitimate university, from a country with high "western" standards of medicine following the British model, with a limited class size (now 63) and was not intended as a profit making venture. It was also seen as a place where Jewish students could get a spot in medical school without discrimination. The Ivies especially, with the "blue blood" culture had set quotas on Jews thru the 1960 and early 1970's. This latter was formally dropped only to be replaced by a series of agreements between Ivy UGs and med schools basically guaranteeing seats. Even more so some schools purposely had a Saturday morning seminar to keep religious Jews out. All this led to Sackler and the big "3/4" Caribbean schools to have most clinicals in New York, having students network, and having placement into residencies (prior to NRMP as we know it today). At one point in 1980s-1990s something like 1/3 of all doctors did some of their medical training (either medical school, residency, or fellowship) in NYC. I would venture say a sizable number of religious jews (both Hasidic and Orthodox) use Einstein and Sackler as their top choices. Perhaps 1/3 or more a Sackler class is this group.

This went on until 1990 when their was a shift in undergraduates. Prior to this medicine was a big goal for students. But with rise of PC and computers as well high level finance and business, many students who would have been premeds now shifted. This was also when HMOs and doctor's liability insurance when making the profession less attractive. So acceptance rates dropped from nearly 4:1 in 1996 to 2:1 by 2003. Along with this drop the quality of applicants dropped and was the beginning of the Caribbean real corporate business profit model. with huge class sizes and taking any warm bodies they can find. Since Sackler did not go this route, its reputation has stayed solid. And again, it is different than off shore schools in that 1) legitimate university; 2) follows a strong western medicine standard overseen by a "real" government; 3) its class size of 63 is small ; 4) it is competitive to get a slot; 5) it has attrition rates as good if not better than most US schools ; 6) So virtually everyone who starts earns a degree and gets a residency slot. These slots are reported and I would say the graduates are competitive.

So in education and reputation, Sackler is much more like a US school

Overview of History/Law in NYS
http://www.iaomc.org/nyef.htm

AAMC applicant pool chart
https://www.aamc.org/download/153708/data/
Click to expand...

Vunderlekh postn, @gonnif. A dank! :) A wonderful post, @gonnif. Thank you! (Translated from Yiddish)
 
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JB50 said:
Yes I heard you don't even have to take exams or boards you just go right into orthopedic surgery and make 500k+ in 1 year of training
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Some of the ads that I get even on here are ridiculous. One is for a one year medical school. I'm like what????
 
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Kgizzle said:
Some of the ads that I get even on here are ridiculous. One is for a one year medical school. I'm like what????
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Is there such a thing as a one year medical school?
 
Goro said:
Sarcasm doesn't travel well over the electrons, lib.
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Ah, I knew there were 3 year and degrees. I am assuming you could push a 2 year one by killing all breaks. I wasn't sure if you could compress it any further.
 
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