Mortgages and Practice Ownership

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StilgarMD

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Wondering if you are someone aiming to purchase a practice within the next couple years, should you avoid taking on a mortgage now? Do people have experience getting both in a short period of time? This is in the setting of ~300k student debt.

Additional Q: When it comes to practices, how do you weigh the potential return on having a home as an investment vs putting all the extra money into a practice? Is this a trade off people must make? fwiw, practice would be general.

Any resources/tips would be great.

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IMO No home is an investment if you’re paying the mortgage/utilities/electric/insurance :) different story if there are renters who are paying it for you
 
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If you can afford the home you want, get a home before you start a practice. Generally speaking, its nearly impossible to get a mortgage as a new, self employed, small business owner without at least 1 full calendar year of tax history of your business.
 
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It depends on how much you (and your spouse) make and the selling price of the practice (and the house) you want to buy. Three months after graduation, we bought our first house for $380k. My wife and I owed $450k in student loans. Our initial income (both of our salaries combined) was in the low $300k. And 6 months later, we took out another $120k loan ($90k for a practice + $30k working capital) to buy a run-down practice from a 71yo periodontist for my wife. With massive debt amount, we could only afford to buy such small office. To make it more efficiently run, my wife cut down the number of office days from 5 days/wk down to 3 days/wk by booking as many patients in one day as possible. She did all the cleanings herself, instead of paying the hygienist. And for the other extra days in the week, she traveled to work at other GP offices to supplement her income.

Four years later, I set up my 1300 square foot ortho office from scratch for $125k. I took out a $75k business loan + $50k was from my own saving. At that time, we also upgraded to a bigger $992k house. I didn’t want a lifestyle downgrade so I kept my full time 22 days/month associate job at the corp offices and worked at my newly built office on Saturdays and Sundays. We hired a live-in nanny to take care of our kids, who were still very little (under 3 yrs old), so we could both work 6-7 days/wk.

It’s much more expensive to build an office now. I think the new grad dentists should look at some of the abandoned dental and medical offices and hire a handyman to remodel them for much lower cost. Five years ago, I converted an existing medical office (I found it on loopnet.com) to an ortho office for $55k. I know an ortho, who has an office that doesn’t any underground plumbing….she just used a self-contained mobile cart…..the air and suction of the portable unit were strong enough for my friend, who is a perio, to perform canine exposure surgery at her office. One of my referring GPs built a partition inside her dad's pharmacy store and added 2 dental chairs in there. Patients don’t really care what equipment you have in your office. If you are a specialist, your success depends on the relationship you have with the referring GPs. As long as the office looks nice and clean, it’s good enough. New paint and new floor are inexpensive.

It helps a lot when you have dual income + stable associate jobs elsewhere to supplement your income.
 
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It depends on how much you (and your spouse) make and the selling price of the practice (and the house) you want to buy. Three months after graduation, we bought our first house for $380k. My wife and I owed $450k in student loans. Our initial income (both of our salaries combined) was in the low $300k. And 6 months later, we took out another $120k loan ($90k for a practice + $30k working capital) to buy a run-down practice from a 71yo periodontist for my wife. With massive debt amount, we could only afford to buy such small office. To make it more efficiently run, my wife cut down the number of office days from 5 days/wk down to 3 days/wk by booking as many patients in one day as possible. She did all the cleanings herself, instead of paying the hygienist. And for the other extra days in the week, she traveled to work at other GP offices to supplement her income.

Four years later, I set up my 1300 square foot ortho office from scratch for $125k. I took out a $75k business loan + $50k was from my own saving. At that time, we also upgraded to a bigger $992k house. I didn’t want a lifestyle downgrade so I kept my full time 22 days/month associate job at the corp offices and worked at my newly built office on Saturdays and Sundays. We hired a live-in nanny to take care of our kids, who were still very little (under 3 yrs old), so we could both work 6-7 days/wk.

It’s much more expensive to build an office now. I think the new grad dentists should look at some of the abandoned dental and medical offices and hire a handyman to remodel them for much lower cost. Five years ago, I converted an existing medical office (I found it on loopnet.com) to an ortho office for $55k. I know an ortho, who has an office that doesn’t any underground plumbing….she just used a self-contained mobile cart…..the air and suction of the portable unit were strong enough for my friend, who is a perio, to perform canine exposure surgery at her office. One of my referring GPs built a partition inside her dad's pharmacy store and added 2 dental chairs in there. Patients don’t really care what equipment you have in your office. If you are a specialist, your success depends on the relationship you have with the referring GPs. As long as the office looks nice and clean, it’s good enough. New paint and new floor are inexpensive.

It helps a lot when you have dual income + stable associate jobs elsewhere to supplement your income.

That's interesting - I'll be a resident making around 70k - 90k/yr for the next 4 years, she'll be a GP doing as much as she can. I can't imagine us moving around that much, more likely to staying put wherever we land (house/rent wise) for the 5 to 6 years at least. Seems like maybe juggling a mortgage with a new office might be a bit too risky, so It may boil down to picking one.
 
That's interesting - I'll be a resident making around 70k - 90k/yr for the next 4 years, she'll be a GP doing as much as she can. I can't imagine us moving around that much, more likely to staying put wherever we land (house/rent wise) for the 5 to 6 years at least. Seems like maybe juggling a mortgage with a new office might be a bit too risky, so It may boil down to picking one.
With 2 doctors’ incomes, you will be fine. If you don’t know where you want to live and to set up your wife’s dental practice, I think it is better to rent now. Home prices are too high. One of the safe ways to park your hard earned money is to buy short term T-bills…..you get 5.3-5.5% interest, which is better than buying a house and renting it out….and you don’t have to pay the local and state taxes on the interest that you earn. Hopefully, after 5-6 years, you two will have enough in your saving to buy a dental practice (or a house or both) and not have to take out any loan. There might be better and safer ways to invest than buying T-bills that I don’t know…please chime in.
 
Charles is adamantly in the "no debt" camp. For some, there is not such thing as good debt but it is NOT the only way to do business. Your cash flow will suffer up front if you try and save up to buy a practice without debt.
 
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I don't think my income will be at a point where it will count as '2 doctors' for a while (I'm going to be doing research stuff, rather than popping straight into an attending job). It does seem like renting just for arriving makes more sense.
 
I bought my practice first. After a few years then bought a house. No regrets. My practice search was wider since I was renting and I knew my income as a practice owner so I was able to get a house I wanted and was comfortable with. I think the general rule of thumb is wait to buy practice before house if you can.
 
I don't think my income will be at a point where it will count as '2 doctors' for a while (I'm going to be doing research stuff, rather than popping straight into an attending job). It does seem like renting just for arriving makes more sense.
Don’t underestimate the power of dual income in a household. I believe being a medical resident, you will get health + some other benefits, correct? If this is true, your $70-90k income is equivalent to a dentist’s $100k income since dentists have to buy health insurance for themselves + their spouse and kids. Another benefit of both of you working all the time is you’ll have less chance to go out to spend/waste money on stupid things.

Yeah, renting is a good starting point. You'll need to spend time to explore the city to see if you like it or not. If this city/state is not where you want to live (and your kids to grow up in) for the rest of your life, there’s no reason to buy a house or a practice here. If you don’t know what to invest your money in, you should pay off the student loan debt ($300k debt isn’t much for a dual income couple) ASAP.
 
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