Missing statistics on COVID-19?

[BMBiology]

I guess Sweden and their epidemiologists are flat earthers

No fatty in Sweden. And they follow the rules.

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[owlegrad]

I guess Sweden and their epidemiologists are flat earthers

Huh?

 

[DagS132]

Not knowing if full quarantine helped vs partial quarantine as far as death rate...

Shutting down the economy would do more harm as far as quality of life for the general public....

Why are those two ideas funny? Do you realize how many people are being laid off and companies are shutting down?

Implying shutting down the economy and doing the quarantine are two totally separate and unrelated events. Lol, I was laughing at the contradiction man. Calm down.

 

[sfachine]

Huh?

There is more than self distancing to fight a pandemic.Sweden did not close their borders and passed very few social distancing measures.They kept their economy open.They believe let the virus run its course, protect the vulnerable only, and gain herd immunity.The results are not in as a public health matter but they didn't destroy the social and economic fabric of their citizens,

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Implying shutting down the economy and doing the quarantine are two totally separate and unrelated events. Lol, I was laughing at the contradiction man. Calm down.

Huh? i'm confused... how are they unrelated? economy was shut down because of full quarantine...

As I said before... again, if we had partial quarantine with just the vulnerable population and let the less risky population out, we could still run the economy. Or even maybe regional shut downs like New York/New Jersey area. There aren't enough cases in Texas to even consider this a problem yet everything is shut down here. People aren't stupid. They see that this forced quarantine is futile and forced the governor to open up the economy.

 

[DagS132]

Huh? i'm confused... how are they unrelated? economy was shut down because of full quarantine...

As I said before... again, if we had partial quarantine with just the vulnerable population and let the less risky population out, we could still run the economy. Or even maybe regional shut downs like New York/New Jersey area. There aren't enough cases in Texas to even consider this a problem yet everything is shut down here. People aren't stupid. They see that this forced quarantine is futile and forced the governor to open up the economy.

lol. Im trying to say how funny it is to hear you say how you don't know how the quarantine effected our current situation but your last sentence states how you think the quarantine was more harmful than good.

 

[owlegrad]

There is more than self distancing to fight a pandemic.Sweden did not close their borders and passed very few social distancing measures.They kept their economy open.They believe let the virus run its course, protect the vulnerable only, and gain herd immunity.The results are not in as a public health matter but they didn't destroy the social and economic fabric of their citizens,

I don’t believe in a one sized fits all solution. More rural areas certainly don’t need the same level of quarantine as urban areas for example.

I actually don’t know what level of quarantine the US needs/needed. Certainly New York needed more. The rest of the US isn’t as clear cut to me. My main point was that some quarantine is more effect than no quarantine and that we shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good/better.

I will say in Florida the idea of quarantine is laughable. Everything is essential. Pool service, lawn service, and live wrestling matches are all essential. So are church services. I don’t know of anything that is not essential. I know people still getting hair and nails done. Some is better than none but we are pretty close to “none” here I would say.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

lol. Im trying to say how funny it is to hear you say how you don't know how the quarantine effected our current situation but your last sentence states how you think the quarantine was more harmful than good.

Ok... maybe you have a weird sense of humor or continuing to misunderstand what im saying but we can move on...

 

[DagS132]

Ok... maybe you have a weird sense of humor or continuing to misunderstand what im saying but we can move on...

Im laughing at you contradicting yourself, lol. You can't even see it yourself, the irony. Or maybe you are just conveniently playing dumb to appear as if contradictions didn't happen. Either way, im laughing

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Im laughing at you contradicting yourself, lol. You can't even see it yourself, the irony. Or maybe you are just conveniently playing dumb to appear as if contradictions didn't happen. Either way, im laughing

I get how in these forums, misunderstanding could happen since the conversation or posts may not be as fluid as one on one conversations or in person and I could also see that you think I am contradicting myself, although I am not. I have been nothing but consistent in how I approached this issue and the current covid19 situation. But the fact that you think you're being smart and condescendingly throw in the "oh, the irony" bs makes me think that you do not care about the content of this conversation therefore would not be worth my time to take you seriously. Im sure you don't care about what I think as much as I couldn't careless about... anything you say at this point.

 

[DagS132]

I get how in these forums, misunderstanding could happen since the conversation or posts may not be as fluid as one on one conversations or in person and I could also see that you think I am contradicting myself, although I am not. I have been nothing but consistent in how I approached this issue and the current covid19 situation. But the fact that you think you're being smart and condescendingly throw in the "oh, the irony" bs makes me think that you do not care about the content of this conversation therefore would not be worth my time to take you seriously. Im sure you don't care about what I think as much as I couldn't careless about... anything you say at this point.

Let me elaborate. I am only laughing at the mistake you made of contradicting yourself, whether you think you did or not, in that 1 post. I am not contributing or taking away anything from your discussion or argument. For you to think I am attacking your intelligence is just your insecurity shining through, which explains why you can't just take it when 1 person laughs at you and maybe says some smart ass remark about nothing. Calm down dude.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Let me elaborate. I am only laughing at the mistake you made of contradicting yourself, whether you think you did or not, in that 1 post. I am not contributing or taking away anything from your discussion or argument. For you to think I am attacking your intelligence is just your insecurity shining through, which explains why you can't just take it when 1 person laughs at you and maybe says some smart ass remark about nothing. Calm down dude.

wtf? lol insecurity? okay...

 

[Old Timer]

I guess Sweden and their epidemiologists are flat earthers

No, they are *****s. They have the highest infection rate in Scandinavia. Iceland which is technically not Scandivanian, but is in Northern Europe has done social distancing and and they have about 10 times less infections than Sweden. England originally tried that, but after it was clear how many would die, they reversed course.

Don't just parrot what the right wing or left wing media says.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

No, they are *****s. They have the highest infection rate in Scandinavia. Iceland which is technically not Scandivanian, but is in Northern Europe has done social distancing and and they have about 10 times less infections than Sweden. England originally tried that, but after it was clear how many would die, they reversed course.

View attachment 303343

Don't just parrot what the right wing or left wing media says.

So, if im reading those numbers right, none of those countries are having issues with covid19...? Lol

 

[sfachine]

They actually fall in the middle compared to lockdown European countries.Their social structures and freedoms remain intact.While France and Denmark struggle with 25 percent unemployment after recovery Sweden will be light years ahead.If a rebound occurs in the winter who will be
in the most danger?It won't be Sweden or similar countries who decided to take a different route.

 

[Old Timer]

Why do I keep coming to threads like this thinking Im
Compare them with Spain UK

Typical, shown be wrong and you move the goal posts. Why not compare it to South Korea? You compare like countries, with similar geography, culture and population density. Italy is much older and has a far greater population density. Read more about Sweden. You make it seem like they have zero restrictions. In fact, 50% of the work force works from home, 70% reduction in traffic. The economy is shrinking. All you are doing is parroting what others say with no real knowledge of your own.

 

[sfachine]

The restrictions are voluntary.Their GDP loss is about 4 percent while the US is about 30 percent for the second quarter and I guarantee it won't be positive in the third quarter. Shutting down a society will also cost lives.We are debating tradeoffs.To me destroying the social fabric of a country for such a insignificant decrease in mortality according to your stats is just not worth it.I guess we will have to wait for the good data to arrive in a couple of years and see the rebound to see which method worked better.

 

[radio frequency]

The restrictions are voluntary.Their GDP loss is about 4 percent while the US is about 30 percent for the second quarter and I guarantee it won't be positive in the third quarter. Shutting down a society will also cost lives.We are debating tradeoffs.To me destroying the social fabric of a country for such a insignificant decrease in mortality according to your stats is just not worth it.I guess we will have to wait for the good data to arrive in a couple of years and see the rebound to see which method worked better.

You realize money is just a social construct, right? Dead people don’t come back.

 

[sfachine]

Resources(money)are scarce.There is no way of getting around that.You try to have policy that saves the most lives with the money you have.We are never going to have enough to save everyone.Dead people dont come back sounds good but try to make policy based on it is just not possible.

 

[Old Timer]

Resources(money)are scarce.There is no way of getting around that.You try to have policy that saves the most lives with the money you have.We are never going to have enough to save everyone.Dead people dont come back sounds good but try to make policy based on it is just not possible.

Sounds like the people who accused Obama of death panels.....

The best and cheapest way to turn the economy around is testing and contact tracing. Do that and you can open the economy. Don't and this will be a smoldering fire that flares up for the next 18 months. Do you think if they opened the economy tomorrow people would go to restaurants? Or Major League Baseball Games? or Broadway shows? Unless people think it's safe only the *****s and the rednecks will gather in numbers. The majority of Americans won't and the economy won't take off anyway.

 

[sfachine]

I agree but we are not even close to that so what are you going to do?You gonna keep up shutting the economy?How much unemployment is acceptable to you?20 percent(depression level) and for how long?Do you think a prolonged depression combined with the negative effects of self distancing will not cost lives?

 

[DagS132]

I agree but we are not even close to that so what are you going to do?You gonna keep up shutting the economy?How much unemployment is acceptable to you?20 percent(depression level) and for how long?Do you think a prolonged depression combined with the negative effects of self distancing will not cost lives?

Roll the dice then!

 

[wagrxm2000]

If Georgia decides to be the test dummy and open back up it's going to he interesting to see if they get a huge spike in cases

 

[Old Timer]

I agree but we are not even close to that so what are you going to do?You gonna keep up shutting the economy?How much unemployment is acceptable to you?20 percent(depression level) and for how long?Do you think a prolonged depression combined with the negative effects of self distancing will not cost lives?

No, If I was President I would put every ounce of my office into testing. I would use the line from the Patton Movie:

 

[lane one]

Sounds like the people who accused Obama of death panels.....

The best and cheapest way to turn the economy around is testing and contact tracing. Do that and you can open the economy. Don't and this will be a smoldering fire that flares up for the next 18 months. Do you think if they opened the economy tomorrow people would go to restaurants? Or Major League Baseball Games? or Broadway shows? Unless people think it's safe only the *****s and the rednecks will gather in numbers. The majority of Americans won't and the economy won't take off anyway.

What makes you think these are distinctly different groups of people? The majority of Americans aren't Lawyers in NYC or SF tech titans. They jump 4 wheelers and do ***** things while crushing natty light, and they miss their Nascar.

 

[Old Timer]

What makes you think these are distinctly different groups of people? The majority of Americans aren't Lawyers in NYC or SF tech titans. They jump 4 wheelers and do ***** things while crushing natty light, and they miss their Nascar.

Because there are *****s who happen not to be rednecks,

 

[lane one]

Because there are *****s who happen not to be rednecks,

I don't disagree with you there, I'm suggesting the majority of Americans are actually *****s OR rednecks. You bet your ass people would be packed into the NFL draft tonight if they could be. You really think even "intelligent" people are immune to peer pressure? That they're going to sit at home in fear while their friends are out on the lake? Taking risks is innately human. We love that ****.

 

[Old Timer]

I don't disagree with you there, I'm suggesting the majority of Americans are actually *****s OR rednecks. You bet your ass people would be packed into the NFL draft tonight if they could be. You really think even "intelligent" people are immune to peer pressure? That they're going to sit at home in fear while their friends are out on the lake? Taking risks is innately human. We love that ****.

I don't think so. If they opened up tomorrow and started MLB, the stadiums would not be full. Bars and restaurants would not be packed. Would people go out, sure. But the economy is not just going to snap back to where it was.

 

[owlegrad]

I don't think so. If they opened up tomorrow and started MLB, the stadiums would not be full. Bars and restaurants would not be packed. Would people go out, sure. But the economy is not just going to snap back to where it was.

I think you are going to be surprised how quickly stadiums fill. I am not saying full economic recovery overnight but packed stadiums and concerts and such? 100% absolutely.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Personally, I see no difference in the amount of games I go to this year.

 

[BMBiology]

Personally, I see no difference in the amount of games I go to this year.

You are a millionaire tho

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Is it just me or did we kill the economy for the wrong reason? Hmmmm so technically, we wont know the true numbers... interesting.

 

[wagrxm2000]

We just had the most confirmed cases in a day.

Yet we want to open up the country?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

We just had the most confirmed cases in a day.

Yet we want to open up the country?

Everyone is going to be infected at some point anyways. Mind as well open up and live normally. I need to go to the gym. I dying to see the new Bond film. No pun intended.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Everyone is going to be infected at some point anyways. Mind as well open up and live normally. I need to go to the gym. I dying to see the new Bond film. No pun intended.

Eh, if we never closed the country down, the cases would have overwhelmed the hospitals.

Americans are already dumb and clearly can't protect themselves on their own. Heck New Yorkers still can't.

 

[wagrxm2000]

One millionth positive test coming today

Congratulations to all the fools who didn't take it seriously and didn't social distance!!!!

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Eh, if we never closed the country down, the cases would have overwhelmed the hospitals.

Americans are already dumb and clearly can't protect themselves on their own. Heck New Yorkers still can't.

Like all Americans are dumb? does that include you too?

 

[wagrxm2000]

Like all Americans are dumb? does that include you too?

I didn't get it does that make me smart?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

One millionth positive test coming today

Congratulations to all the fools who didn't take it seriously and didn't social distance!!!!

Number of infected could be well over 1 million at this point.

Compared to the flu, covid19 doesn't sound too bad. lol.

Estimated 56 million cases and 62,000 deaths so far.

Again, why don't we shut down the economy for the flu?! lol

Preliminary In-Season 2021-2022 Flu Burden Estimates

CDC's weekly cumulative in-season estimates of flu cases, medical visits, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I didn't get it does that make me smart?

No, that makes you... not infected? uhhhh... so you're saying everyone who got covid19 is stupid? like all the doctors and nurses that got it are stupid? isn't Boris Johnson pretty smart? haha

 

[wagrxm2000]

No, that makes you... not infected? uhhhh... so you're saying everyone who got covid19 is stupid? like all the doctors and nurses that got it are stupid? isn't Boris Johnson pretty smart? haha

You read into that way too much

 

[BMBiology]

Number of infected could be well over 1 million at this point.

Compared to the flu, covid19 doesn't sound too bad. lol.

Estimated 56 million cases and 62,000 deaths so far.

Again, why don't we shut down the economy for the flu?! lol

Preliminary In-Season 2021-2022 Flu Burden Estimates

CDC's weekly cumulative in-season estimates of flu cases, medical visits, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

What is covid19 transmission rate and death rate compared to the flu?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

What is covid19 transmission rate and death rate compared to the flu?

Not sure how much we can trust these numbers but they could be similar if you take out the outliners.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

If this is true, the number reported is wrong.

 

[BMBiology]

Not sure how much we can trust these numbers but they could be similar if you take out the outliners.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

If this is true, the number reported is wrong.

So we don’t know?

 

[deleted562805]

If this study is accurate, covid19 may have similar if not lower fatality rate than the flu. May be too early to tell.

I believe Fauci wrote an article on NEJM, saying it is similar to the flu

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I believe Fauci wrote an article on NEJM, saying it is similar to the flu

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

This one?

Brad Pitt had it right the whole time haha

 

[Old Timer]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

This one?

Brad Pitt had it right the whole time haha

I couldn't figure out why I put you on Ignore. Now I remember. You're a dope. Fauci said MAY not is. Secondly we don't know what the numbers are. What we do know is seasonal flu does not kill this many people this fast. We also know the seasonal flu does not overwhelm our healthcare system. Without social distancing we would have had a disaster on our hands. We have some innate antibodies to the flu from repeated exposure and we have some semblance of herd immunity die to vaccinations. This is a novel virus s we are totally naive from an immunologic perspective. We also have Amantadine, Tamiflu and zofluza. We don't anything for this yet. Since 2010 we range between 12,000 and 60,000 deaths per season. We will easily surpass that in just 2 months.

The numbers also don't take into account the number of people who are dying at home and not being counted. The flu does not become pandemic every year. There is no comparison between this and the flu, except they are both viral infections.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I couldn't figure out why I put you on Ignore. Now I remember. You're a dope. Fauci said MAY not is. Secondly we don't know what the numbers are. What we do know is seasonal flu does not kill this many people this fast. We also know the seasonal flu does not overwhelm our healthcare system. Without social distancing we would have had a disaster on our hands. We have some innate antibodies to the flu from repeated exposure and we have some semblance of herd immunity die to vaccinations. This is a novel virus s we are totally naive from an immunologic perspective. We also have Amantadine, Tamiflu and zofluza. We don't anything for this yet. Since 2010 we range between 12,000 and 60,000 deaths per season. We will easily surpass that in just 2 months.

The numbers also don't take into account the number of people who are dying at home and not being counted. The flu does not become pandemic every year. There is no comparison between this and the flu, except they are both viral infections.

Just keep on ignoring me. What you stated are too obvious of facts i feel stupid taking time reading it. Ill take an article on NEJM way more seriously than some random person on a blog ranting about everyone not being aligned with his agenda. I mean, are you a virologist or an epidemiologist that worked on covid19? Or are you working on a paper on covid19? What is your credential or where is you evidence to disprove Fauci’s report? How Can you so adamantly state all those things when clearly there are reports and journal articles reporting otherwise?

Overwhelm healthcare system? Hospitals are laying off employees. Hospitals are empty. My wife works at the biggest hospital in the state. The med school and the entire hospital is empty. Other than new york, where are we seeing such a problem? Most states hit peak in its spread weeks after social distancing began.

Dying at home? Wtf? So youre saying there are so many people just dying at home that are not being reported to a point where if they were reported it will actually make a difference in the death rate?! You actually think, in this country that could pump out 3 trillion dollars after purposely crashing its own economy, there are so many people just dying at home without anyone knowing? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok.

Again, im sure i am wrong. Just ignore me. Im sure there are millions of people dying everywhere and we will all die from this virus. No vaccines. No treatment.

You better hide yo kid, yo wife and yo dog.

 

[TheBlaah]

Not sure how much we can trust these numbers but they could be similar if you take out the outliners.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

If this is true, the number reported is wrong.

How deaths are recorded are state dependent. Thanks for a 30 second clip telling us how one state in the US records their COVID deaths and trying to relate it to the statistics for the entire nation. Do you even live in Illinois?

some random person on a blog ranting about everyone not being aligned with his agenda. I mean, are you a virologist or an epidemiologist that worked on covid19? Or are you working on a paper on covid19? What is your credential? How Can you so adamantly state all those things when clearly there are reports and journal articles reporting otherwise?

You just described yourself perfectly. What is this, your 40th post trying to downplay covid-19 moving the goalpost as time went on each time you were proven wrong?

I seem to recall you having a similar issue with reading comprehension from our last interaction. I believe you misinterpreted a text from an ED MD, inferring that due to coronavirus "panic", more patients were "voluntarily" admitting themselves to the hospital to use up ventilators. I'm glad you unburdened yourself of that misinformation since you've now come to the conclusion that admissions are actually down since patients are actively avoiding hospitals. However, it seems you've come to another incorrect conclusion from another person's expertise.

In regards to the "flu" similarity described in that article, it is described as similar to the severe seasonal or pandemic influenza in mortality rate of ~0.1-1% as opposed to SARS and MERS with fatality rates of 10% and 36%. It specifically quotes the 1957 and 1968 influenza "pandemic" seasons each of which caused 1-4 million deaths worldwide (100k+ in the US) and were two of the were flu seasons in the last 100 years.

Lastly, I'll say that in my state, our densest city is actually doing quite well. It's a smaller rural city that has the highest percentage of people infected and has had its one major hospital overwhelmed. For a hospital that originally only had 14 ICU beds (which they've obviously expanded since), they've had 75 covid deaths and 180 covid hospitalization requiring critical care in the span of a month.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

How deaths are recorded are state dependent. Thanks for a 30 second clip telling us how one state in the US records their COVID deaths and trying to relate it to the statistics for the entire nation. Do you even live in Illinois?



You just described yourself perfectly. What is this, your 40th post trying to downplay covid-19 moving the goalpost as time went on each time you were proven wrong?

I seem to recall you having a similar issue with reading comprehension from our last interaction. I believe you misinterpreted a text from an ED MD, inferring that due to coronavirus "panic", more patients were "voluntarily" admitting themselves to the hospital to use up ventilators. I'm glad you unburdened yourself of that misinformation since you've now come to the conclusion that admissions are actually down since patients are actively avoiding hospitals. However, it seems you've come to another incorrect conclusion from another person's expertise.

In regards to the "flu" similarity described in that article, it is described as similar to the severe seasonal or pandemic influenza in mortality rate of ~0.1-1% as opposed to SARS and MERS with fatality rates of 10% and 36%. It specifically quotes the 1957 and 1968 influenza "pandemic" seasons each of which caused 1-4 million deaths worldwide (100k+ in the US) and were two of the were flu seasons in the last 100 years.

Lastly, I'll say that in my state, our densest city is actually doing quite well. It's a smaller rural city that has the highest percentage of people infected and has had its one major hospital overwhelmed. For a hospital that originally only had 14 ICU beds (which they've obviously expanded since), they've had 75 covid deaths and 180 covid hospitalization requiring critical care in the span of a month.

Any evidence that rest of the country is recording death differently than Illinois?
Why does it matter how long the clip is? Did you see the longer clip of this? Does it say anything different? So youre admitting that it is okay for state of Illinois to record covid19 death the way she describes it?

Again, you did not have the conversation with my friend. Let it go. No matter how much you argue, it wont change the fact that she found your your zeal strange. Yes, i showed her what you wrote lol I did not misinterpret anything.

Not sure what you are trying to argue against at this point. So, 0.1% death rate that Fauci is comparing to is wrong? Or that covid19 does not have 0.1% death rate? You do not have to reiterate those number since clearly im the one who posted it and i read the article.

Since youre taking things out of context to make your argument, let me correct you. Facuci states, “severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968)”. Notice how he said “or” right after he said SEASONAL FLU? So, we shut down the economy and made millions of people lose their jobs from possible 0.1% death rate or the seasonal flu huh? And you are okay with that? Well, okay then i guess thats your argument and good for you.

If youre just gonna keep on twisting what I said instead of making a real convincing argument... eh go ahead lol it’s entertaining actually.