Minorities, I have good news!

[DDSY]

When you say best gradeschools, what exactly are you referring to? I was just curious, because I have lived in South Korea.

Referring to elementary schools. I've seen ranking of grade schools posted online (don't know exactly when, but many of them are in asia). I don't know about graduate/professional schools but I think US prob ranks as one of, if not, the top.

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[Dr IWannaBe]

Try this exercise: Pick the student who is more disadvantaged and deserves special consideration for admission into dental school:

A) The kid whose mom was a crack-addict, abondoning him/her as an orphan, causing the student to live with severe developmental problems and to work 40 hours a week while in school just to buy food, leaving no extra money for a Kaplan class and very little time for studying. GPA = 3.1, AA = 19, PA = 18

Or

B) The kid whose parents are wealthy doctors and lawyers able to provide the student with a lavish college lifestyle at an expensive private college. The student is able to shadow premier dentists and oral surgeons because they are friends of the family, and can afford to take any (even all) of the best prep classes available. GPA = 3.1, AA = 19, PA = 18

Would your answer change if I told you that Student A was white and student B was black? How about the other way around?

Very good.

 

[MIZUNOGRL29]

Fuji brings in an excellent point. After all the stereotype is that only minorities use crack and are on welfare.

 

[armorshell]

Since noone seems to be reading my posts I will draw a little more attention to them:

Professional schools do not over-accept minority applicants because they need a "leg up" due to poor educational conditions. They over-accept minority applicants because there is a documented shortage of minority health professionals.

Assuming minority students need a leg up after college is ludicrous, that would be akin to assuming community college students had a poor learning environment, and giving them additional consideration because of that. The health system needs minority doctors.

Think about this, is the dentist you see the same race as you? (Do not actually answer this question, just think about it )

 

[DAS]

I am in baby. 158 ( AA 20, TS 21, PAT 15)

 

[ChronarchB]

agree with amorshell. Ex: a hispanic person with little or no english will trust and feel more confortable if their health provider is hispanic and can speak spanish as well. how are they suppose to communicate to a white/black/asian doctor. This goes for every race. This country is becoming more and more diverse, so the health fields need to adjust as well.

 

[_veo_]

armorshell, I agree with you. However, i don't think they are "over-accepting". If you look at the statistics of schools, you will see that the majority of students are white. All I'm saying is that if you are a competitive candidate, you will get in. It is not like they accept students just because of their race. Yes, it might help a little, but it is not as bad as everyone is making it sound. They have to be decent candidates too. No school wants to lower their standards because then it will come right back at them. You don't want your school to be regarded as a bad school with unqualified students..

 

[Dr.Dientes]

Well said!

 

[musiq]

So, I am an African American female and I had an informal meeting with the director of admissions today at a school I am applying to (state school, not private). Anyways, he told me that I was IN!!!! Here are my stats 17/18/15, 3.57 gpa, 3.4 science gpa. He said that as long as the eight scores on your DAT add up to be 130 and you are a minority, then you are competitive and will get into your state school. Just thought I would share this information. Oh yeah, one more thing, he also said he would give me $10,000 a year to help pay for tuition.

Yeah, that is cool. But, I am also an African American. However, there are certain places that you can not say certain things. Even though that is good news to some, it feels bad to others to hear that people are getting accepted b/c of race or whatever. My girlfriend is in a Pharm. D program and they give minorities fees waivers and free tutoring and free study guides and all kinds of stuff just to retain the minority students. Her stats were above average for all the students, so make off it what you want. Good luck sister.

 

[armorshell]

armorshell, I agree with you. However, i don't think they are "over-accepting". If you look at the statistics of schools, you will see that the majority of students are white.

When I say over-accepting, I mean accepting a higher proportion of students then would be expected by the number of applicants. For example, if 1000 kids apply and 430 are granted admission, that would set the standard. Say 100 of those kids are minorities, and 83 of them are accepted. See what I mean?

 

[OSUDDS]

agree with amorshell. Ex: a hispanic person with little or no english will trust and feel more confortable if their health provider is hispanic and can speak spanish as well. how are they suppose to communicate to a white/black/asian doctor. This goes for every race. This country is becoming more and more diverse, so the health fields need to adjust as well.

Their are plenty of whites/blacks etc. fluent in spanish... what the hell are you thinking?

 

[apaul]

agree with amorshell. Ex: a hispanic person with little or no english will trust and feel more confortable if their health provider is hispanic and can speak spanish as well. how are they suppose to communicate to a white/black/asian doctor. This goes for every race. This country is becoming more and more diverse, so the health fields need to adjust as well.

entonces porque soy guero no puedo hablar con mis pacientes en su idioma, ellos requieren un doctor latino o que?

 

[armorshell]

Their are plenty of whites/blacks etc. fluent in spanish... what the hell are you thinking?

That doesn't mean a hispanic patient would be as comfortable as seeing a hispanic practitioner.

And how many white doctors do you think will be willing to set up shop in the barrio?

 

[OSUDDS]

so then it just comes down to racism, right?

 

[armorshell]

so then it just comes down to racism, right?

Pull your head out of your ass man. Most people are racists in some way or another. Trying to pull the wool over your eyes and pretend everyone is as "high and mighty" as you or I and can see past these things is ridiculous.

If your situation were ideal then the areas that are currently underserved...wouldn't be

 

[_veo_]

entonces porque soy guero no puedo hablar con mis pacientes en su idioma, ellos requieren un doctor latino o que?

There are white and black hispanics too.. Actually, "hispanic" is an ethnicity, not a race

 

[_veo_]

When I say over-accepting, I mean accepting a higher proportion of students then would be expected by the number of applicants. For example, if 1000 kids apply and 430 are granted admission, that would set the standard. Say 100 of those kids are minorities, and 83 of them are accepted. See what I mean?

I don't know the statistics of all the schools, but I really don't think it is much. I get that not as many apply and it is less competition for those spots.. while the others have higher competition, thus higher stats are required.

 

[OSUDDS]

Pull your head out of your ass man. Most people are racists in some way or another. Trying to pull the wool over your eyes and pretend everyone is as "high and mighty" as you or I and can see past these things is ridiculous.

If your situation were ideal then the areas that are currently underserved...wouldn't be

laugh. allright dude, i guess were all closet racists.

 

[PlanB21]

maybe your friend's dad was not qualified for the promotion...just cuz he was there longer, doesn't mean he is automatically more qualified. Why didn't he go talk to his boss and ask for the real reasons?

excuses are like dinguses..everyone has one and they stink.
Assuming makes an ass out of U and Me...

 

[MoobDDS]

This has become a very popular thread.

 

[ChronarchB]

OSUDDS, obviously your either from ohio or oklahoma. why don't you come down to miami and see that there are more spanish speaking people in ft lauderdale and miami then actual "white" people.

 

[OSUDDS]

ok? i dont get it. i lived in mexico for 6 weeks. there were a lot of spanish speakers there.

 

[ChronarchB]

fine how about this...osudds go get better grades and test scores if your worried about minorites taking your spot. if you have the grades then you shouldn't worry right???

oh and I dont fall in the catagory of a minority either. I could care less what others are doing. im just focus on myself and what i need to do to get in rather than worry about Afirmattive action.

 

[in her drawer]

It's alright, everyone. Let's not get worked up over this anymore and let us chill out. OK, now everyone be friends.

 

[earthcap]

It's alright, everyone. Let's not get worked up over this anymore and let us chill out. OK, now everyone be friends.

Nice...

 

[Uracil]

It all comes down that patients will go and see the doctors they trust and feel more comfortable with. The same works vice versa. And yes, race influences, that is why schools take a certain proportion of applicants who fall under "minorities". Whether they are highly qualified applicants or not, it all depends on the school criteria.

 

[Uracil]

fine how about this...osudds go get better grades and test scores if your worried about minorites taking your spot. if you have the grades then you shouldn't worry right???

oh and I dont fall in the catagory of a minority either. I could care less what others are doing. im just focus on myself and what i need to do to get in rather than worry about Afirmattive action.

I agree.. and well said. (In my opinion)

I am spanish, and I will never use my ethnicity as an excuse to get into dental school. I have done my best to compete with the best and whatever the rest might be . If the schools pick me over some else because of my ethnicity merely, then that's their problem .

 

[OSUDDS]

i just think its silly. thats all. why should i get better stats and grades when nobody else has to?

PS: i hope this thread ends soon.... pleeeeeeeease.

 

[egots]

to the original poster, 1st congrats, no matter what anyone says if we were given the same oppurtunity we wouldnt resist it...to everyone whining life is unfair get over it...im curious tho being of African American decent do you think you will practice in an urban area...i ask b/c im from jersey and i grew up in the "ghetto" and actually lived and went to school in one of the worst neighborhoods in jersey, i went to college and most black ppl i meet who didtn have that upbringing could care less about that community and would avoid it...i want to serve that community when im older b/c its where i grew up at, having been giving this oppurtunity do you feel obliged to do the same?

 

[OSUDDS]

obviously the op ain't from the hood
read the thread

that being said, many people, myslef included aren't from the bad neighborhoods but would still like to serve in areas of need.

 

[egots]

yea i knew the op wasnt thats why i asked..and why would you want to serve a community that you have no attachment 2? are you that kind of a person haha

 

[DentalBoarder]

it's true that the US is becoming more populated with spanish speakers. but if people are accepted based on credentials, the accepted would be able to learn spanish that's used in the dental office. plus, u can just hire spanish speaking dental assistants and receptionists. but it's true what armorshell said. people go to dentists sharing the same ethnicity. whether u guys are racists or not doesn't really matter. many people ARE racist; hence, the patient pool is racist. maybe their racism is not turned on 24/7, but it can be a factor in deciding which doctor to go to. so it just makes sense to let more minorities enter the medical field to tend to different ethnic groups. anyway, hopefully the majority of people here see people as people. it's not because people received less education or they had f'ed up childhoods or some crazy parents that they're racist. it's just... them as a person. for some reason, i see more and more racism in LA these days. as an asian, i get treated differently if i'm not their own kind... whether it be at the department store or the restaurant. it doesn't provoke racism in me, rather sadness. whatever.. hopefully the world would change for the better. anyway, it IS good news to the minorities. congrats!

 

[NufinButTheToof]

So do you think that patients should have the right to choose the color of their doctor's skin?


Some on the thread seem to be saying that... a black/hispanic woman should be able to tell a white male doctor that she doesn't want to be seen by them and that they they should deserve to be seen by only a black/hispanic female doctor.

yes/no?


Well.. then.

Do you feel that it is also ok for a white male who arrives to the ER to refuse to be seen by a black/hispanic female doctor and demand to be seen by only a white male doctor?



I'm fine with people having different opinions, as long as you don't hold a double standard or contradict yourself.

Personally.. I'd want to be treated by the doctor who was most qualified for the job (regardless of gender or color)

 

[OSUDDS]

yea i knew the op wasnt thats why i asked..and why would you want to serve a community that you have no attachment 2? are you that kind of a person haha

whats "that kind of person"?

 

[pearlywhite]

yea i knew the op wasnt thats why i asked..and why would you want to serve a community that you have no attachment 2? are you that kind of a person haha

At least for me, my experience volunteering in a free dental clinic HAS given me an attachment to the said community. I am very blessed in the way that I grew up but I know that I'll treat a wide array of patients once I am a doctor- because I've been exposed to these communities that have a greater need for healthcare.

 

[maksidaa]

i just wanted to say that i'm tired of people saying that others are "whining" and to go get better stats to be competitive. as has been pointed out in every other thread and even in this thread a few times, a lot of people on sdn are have above-average stats and some have way above-average stats. just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are 1)whining and 2) have low stats.
there are alot of people on here saying that others are whining b/c they think affirmative action policies and other policies like AA will not keep them out of dental school, but i guarantee you that there will be plenty of you not getting into school this year, and though you think you have good stats it won't matter, and unfortunately when you get denied somewhere you'll think it's b/c you should retake the DAT when in reality someone else with a lower DAT score took the spot you should have been given. i don't really buy into the "minorities will serve minorities" idea. do they make minorities that benefit from such ideals sign a contract agreeing to serve poor communities? no, they don't. are there plenty of the majority that grew up in underserved areas that are eager to go back and help out? absolutely.

 

[egots]

At least for me, my experience volunteering in a free dental clinic HAS given me an attachment to the said community. I am very blessed in the way that I grew up but I know that I'll treat a wide array of patients once I am a doctor- because I've been exposed to these communities that have a greater need for healthcare.

maybe i have a cynical view of ppl as a whole, but its good that there are others that do actually care to provide dental care in undesired communities

 

[IdiotsAnnoyMe]

In healthcare, the practitioners must be able to place the concerns and care of their patients above all else. This is not merely a desirable trait to be selected for, it's an expected quality. To those that are not willing to place the well-being of the patients above their own, dentistry doesn't want you. Please move on and find yourself another field and career to go into. There are plenty of more "self"-motivated areas where you have the full liberty to think only of yourselves! ...Go into finance, maybe. Make yourself a nice life, making loads of money that way.

But please don't aim to make loads of money in dentistry and think you can not care about your patients' concerns. That's partly how we have practitioners providing unnecessary care to patients for the sake of increasing their bills.

 

[OSUDDS]

is this on the wrong thread?

 

[armorshell]

Do you feel that it is also ok for a white male who arrives to the ER to refuse to be seen by a black/hispanic female doctor and demand to be seen by only a white male doctor?

Do I feel that it's okay? No, that would be a terribly racist thing to do!

But it sure as hell is his right to do it if he feels the need. This is America, you can feel and do whatever you want within the confines of the law, and that includes choosing the medical/dental practitioner that makes you feel the most comfortable.

 

[IdiotsAnnoyMe]

is this on the wrong thread?

nope. those who can't see the goals of AA here also tend to not see that they must look beyond themselves. They see how "I" will be harmed. How "I" will be disadvantaged. They don't see how potentially tens of thousands of people would benefit by replacing that "I" with one minority dentist.

Think in terms of your patients, and maybe you'll appreciate the system more. It has a greater plan in stored.

 

[OSUDDS]

i don't think you understand. re-read this thread from the beginning.

 

[armorshell]

i don't think you understand. re-read this thread from the beginning.

She understands fine. She's just making an assumption about you based on your arguments, which is completely unfair and ridiculous.

Because someone doesn't support AA doesn't mean they're in dentistry for the money, nor does it means they won't care for their patients. It doesn't even mean they're a racist! It means they don't like the idea of AA, for whatever reason.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

what would be reality would be schools not giving handouts because of an individuals race. reality is competition, not freebies.

The thread starter is right. I would trade in some lousy addmission to be white anyday!

 

[armorshell]

The thread starter is right. I would trade in some lousy addmission to be white anyday!

The thread starter is black, and I'm sure she's pretty happy with that situation considering it just got her a ticket to dental school.

 

[litldime]

I wonder if people in other countries like Taiwan and Singapore are just as lazy as American children. I suppose lazy as in most of them learn multiplication by age 6 or 7 and have private tutors. I suppose some schools in Europe promote play so much that they allow 3 year olds into Kindergarten. I wonder of most of them have "ADD".

From 1st hand experience: meaning I lived in Nigeria til I was ten and moved over to the US.

I can tell you that the education system there is more thorough and advanced, not because of tutors but because of a more thorough curriculum.

I came over here when I was 10 and skipped a grade (6th grade). My brother came over when he was 8 and skipped 2 grades (3 and 4th grade). My brother is 18 and a junior in college. I'm 20 and a senior in college.

Never had a tutor, just required to learn more at an earlier age!

Does that make Americans lazy? No, the education system in this country needs to be revamped!

 

[Uracil]

i don't think you understand. re-read this thread from the beginning.

I don't think YOU understand. Re-read this thread from the beginning.

 

[egots]

nope. those who can't see the goals of AA here also tend to not see that they must look beyond themselves. They see how "I" will be harmed. How "I" will be disadvantaged. They don't see how potentially tens of thousands of people would benefit by replacing that "I" with one minority dentist.

Think in terms of your patients, and maybe you'll appreciate the system more. It has a greater plan in stored.

ppl see the world through their own perspective. i think its great for ppl to express their perspective on a issue, i wonder if someone like you would be in support of this greater plan if you were a borderline student who in a sense gets screwed and never gets the chance to attend dental school and pursue your dream. if you are are id say your naive, if you arent id say you are hypocritical. and if your stats are crazy good(which i know they are) in a sense you are thinking selfishly through your own perspective that you are secure so it doesnt affect you...

FYI most ppl on SDN are very strong applicants or strong applicants who start tripping when they compare themselves to the strongest, most ppl on SDN will get in, and most ppl who commented do not have to worry about the "I" you speak of they do care about individuals that put forth effort but get shafted and lose their spot to someone with much lower stats...

 

[Uracil]

The point is that is not the fact of picking someone with lower stats than the other person. I totally know is unfair.

But they have to do this selection merely for the well being in providing health care to our diversified society. Is that so hard to get?

And yes, they are thinking about the patients. Patients won't go and ask the doctor, "Please tell me what did you score on the DAT and on the Boards?" "Where exactly you graduated from again?" "OH Let me take a look at your stats and try to go to the most qualified dentist". No, patients don't do that. They go and see where they feel comfortable, it's their health in the hands of someone else, their trust, and race plays a major factor. Of course, patients go see other doctors regardless of race, but remember race plays an important role. Trust me on this, both of my parents are medical doctors.

Let me give a guys homework and read the post of the medical student on this other thread similar to this one. Again, this is my opinion.

 

[maksidaa]

nope. those who can't see the goals of AA here also tend to not see that they must look beyond themselves. They see how "I" will be harmed. How "I" will be disadvantaged. They don't see how potentially tens of thousands of people would benefit by replacing that "I" with one minority dentist.

Think in terms of your patients, and maybe you'll appreciate the system more. It has a greater plan in stored.

Affirmative Action at it's core has nothing to do with patient care. those are two separate arguments. if getting into school is based off of race then it's affirmative action. if it's based off of who will serve what ethical groups then it is a matter of statistical projection (and is still probably illegal).