millionaire doctors?

[bigfrank]

Yes there are tons even some on that are public employees who have to publish their income:
http://www.sfgate.com/news/special/pages/2005/ucsalary/

Philip E. Leboit
Professor of Clinical... UC San Francisco $1,516,451

Timothy H. Mccalmont
Professor of Clinical... UC San Francisco $1,502,671

Both academic patholgists, neither work full time.

To use a statistical term, these are freak-oddities.

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[ASDIC]

I am a MD/MBA student and I am in a good position to write on the business side of medicine.

The secret to being a rich doctor lies with the following:

-managing cash flows
are you getting paid consistently? are the payments increasing over time? are you reinvesting some of the cash into your practice? are you saving enough in interest bearing accounts? are you good enough in managing account receivables (collection agencies)? Are you a provider for the major insurance companies?

-managing cost structures
do you have too many overhead expenses? staff levels? should you buy or lease expensive medical equipment? do you have enough doctors in your group practice to share the overhead costs? can u avoid doing expensive procedures that place too much financial burden on your part? have you looked around for the cheapest insurance?

-managing debt structures
do you have good payment plans to pay off ur student debt? mortgages? office loans? have you looked for loans that have the lowest interest rates?
Remember some debt is useful to get tax deductions, but too much debt is bad.

Its always a good idea to get loans to start ur private practices from the US Small Business Adminstration versus from banks, as the latter charge a lotta interest and fees.

-managing investments
There are some people I know who really dont work at all.They pretty much sit in thier homes playing the stock market, and earn 6 figure incomes. So if you wanna make extra cash, the stock market can be a good idea.
To reduce risk/earn money you must follow up on business news such as WSJ, Business Week, CNBC etc.

There are some doctors who invest/own nursing homes, hospitals, clinics etc to get some side cash.

-developing and implementing strategies for future growth
Successful businessmen have excellent foresight with regards to "whats the next big thing?". If you are able to predict where and when you will be able to earn more and develop strategies to get there, you will be richer than your peers who didnt think that far ahead.

-reducing risk
Risk in medicine has mainly to do with malpractice and uninsured populations. Group practices reduces both these risks, as you can "eat up" sunk costs (theory of economies of scale).

-marketing
If you are the best doctor in town and nobody knows that you exist, thats a problem. Marketing and advertising through mail, media and referrals could substantially increase your patient base. offering discounts or coupons or convenient hours and locations can substantially help draw patients.

-location
You want to be located in a community that has low operating/living expenses (definitely NOT the cities). Its the suburban areas where the costs are high and the patient payor mix is mostly insured.

-tax liabilities
In 2005, the tax brackets for a single (unmarried) person were:
10%: from $0 to $7,300
15%: from $7,301 to $29,700
25%: from $29,701 to $71,950
28%: from $71,951 to $150,150
33%: from $150,151 to $326,450
35%: $326,451 and above
(Source: Wikipedia)

If you make over $100,000 it puts you in the 30%-35% tax bracket...in other words a third of ur money goes back to the government.

If you are able to "shelter" income through legal means and obtain enough deductions you can decrease ur taxes signicantly...I sound like Andy in the movie The Shawshank Redemption when he convinces the guard about his taxes.

good luck-)

 

[LeighMD]

This is pretty rare and those that do are usually unethical, surgeons, great businessmen or made those millions from something else besides medicine. Just my take on it.

 

[blkkd]

Its not hard really just diversify once you start getting you 100,000+ salary. Buy land, some townhouses, open a store...just do whatever you don't have to make a million off medicine alone...I know enough people who have done it...

 

[dz88]

since surgeons have no free time whatsoever, would it be wise to pursue a specialty with good hours like radiology or anesthesiology and spend more time investing or starting another business to generate more income?

 

[Law2Doc]

Its not hard really just diversify once you start getting you 100,000+ salary. Buy land, some townhouses, open a store...just do whatever you don't have to make a million off medicine alone...I know enough people who have done it...

This can be done but over the long haul. You are going to have to save for a very long time though. You cannot service mortgage on multiple projects like this (and presumably live elsewhere) on, say, $120,000. After taxes, rent or mortgage, food, student loans, car payments/loans/gas, and any family expenses, you'd be surprised how little "extra" money you have. Most people seem to have a knack to expand their needs into their income (bigger house, better car, better clothes, nicer class of restaurants). So it will take a lot of planning and a lot of restraint just to have a modest bankroll to play with. Certainly not enough for any sort of real estate investment for quite a few years. And thus you are assuming your family situation, etc. don't change by then (marriage, divorce, kids) and divert the funds away.

 

[Law2Doc]

since surgeons have no free time whatsoever, would it be wise to pursue a specialty with good hours like radiology or anesthesiology and spend more time investing or starting another business to generate more income?

What's the goal here? I think you are losing sight of the big picture. The point should ideally be to find a career that excites you, and makes you happy to get up in the morning. Making money is nice, but it won't make you happy, especially if you are effectively doing two jobs you don't like to get it.

 

[riDer]

you guys aim cheap i am looking to be worth over 100 million by 40. of course its not by a physicians salary probably by business .

 

[Law2Doc]

you guys aim cheap i am looking to be worth over 100 million by 40. of course its not by a physicians salary probably by business .

Why so low? An even trillion or nothing.

 

[LeighMD]

Why so low? An even trillion or nothing.

ha!

 

[RunnerMD]

To get back to the OPs original question, the first physician I shadowed told me he cleared over a mil/year after taxes/expenses. He was a non-trad who went into derm. When he was in school/residency, he had a mentor who retired the same year that he finished his residency. So the mentor decided to turn over his entire (very successful) practice over to the new doc.

 

[MedicineNutt]

This thread sucks...!! money is a bitch and im not even complainin...just enjoy what you wanna do...some ppl dont give a sh** in what you wanna do!! if you wanna make millions go do it on your own without the help of otheres...cuz most of the ppl you will be talkin to dont make millions!!

 

[riDer]

Why so low? An even trillion or nothing.

thats the short term goal. by the time i am 40 the rest has to be thought through .

 

[dz88]

funny, riDer

 

[DKlein]

if you're going into medicine for the money...

you're going into the wrong businesses

and doing your potential patients a great disservice.

 

[pharmer]

if you're going into medicine for the money...

you're going into the wrong businesses

and doing your potential patients a great disservice.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

if you're going into medicine for the money...

you're going into the wrong businesses

and doing your potential patients a great disservice.

please,

go practice medicine in uganda.

let the rest of us make our money

 

[SteveUTexas]

There was an article in the Houston Chronicle today about a GI doc who cleared 44 million in 3 years. He doesn't have a license and tried to burn down his wife's house but that is another story. http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3716296.html

 

[blkkd]

^^^the way you ended that post was classic man have my dying here....

 

[ieatpaste]

If you want to become rich, why don't you just become a banker/trader?

All of my friends from college became bankers and they're making a ****load of money while I'm in medical school. They will be making more money than me when I'm a physician also.

 

[ShyRem]

Really, I don't need to be rich. I have right now a modest 3 BR house (1600 sq ft). I have two cars, the newest one is 9 years old. I don't need a newer one - it works just fine.

I'd be happy being paid in pigs and fresh bread as long as I had enough to pay my bills and an occassional dinner out. I don't need a huge mansion, just a nice modest home, preferably one I can work on fixing up occassionally. The most precious thing about being a physician is making a difference in your patient's lives, not making the most money.

Yeah, I know. Laugh. But really, that's how I see it. Practicing medicine is more of a privilege than all the money in the world.

 

[pagemmapants]

Liver transplant surgeon at UCLA: $1.6 million. Of course he has done 3000 of the 4000 liver transplants performed at UCLA in the past 20 years and has an estimated output of 175% that of a 'normal' transplant surgeon.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'd be happy being paid in pigs and fresh bread

I'd hate to be your office bookkeeper

 

[ShyRem]

Yeah, but you'd love to be a guest at my dinner table!

 

[MedicineNutt]

Really, I don't need to be rich. I have right now a modest 3 BR house (1600 sq ft). I have two cars, the newest one is 9 years old. I don't need a newer one - it works just fine.

I'd be happy being paid in pigs and fresh bread as long as I had enough to pay my bills and an occassional dinner out. I don't need a huge mansion, just a nice modest home, preferably one I can work on fixing up occassionally. The most precious thing about being a physician is making a difference in your patient's lives, not making the most money.

Yeah, I know. Laugh. But really, that's how I see it. Practicing medicine is more of a privilege than all the money in the world.

you went straight to my heart...!!! thats how i feel about practicing medicine in the future!!! it's usually those who live a simple life seem to get through life happily...i hope everyone realizes this in their lives someday!!

 

[Law2Doc]

you went straight to my heart...!!! thats how i feel about practicing medicine in the future!!! it's usually those who are simple-minded who seem to get through life happily...i hope everyone realizes this in their lives someday!!

Um, I don't think "simple-minded" means what you think it does, assuming you were trying to give a complement.

 

[PsyberOz]

I wandered across this site from God knows where on a quiet Sunday afternoon - my sister is a millionaire but made it in ReaL Estate - then she is 15 years older than me and has no children - so I get it in the end.

In the meantime, I chose Psych. as the least boring option in Medicine after I had graduated, with little thought about the money, which is just as well.

I registered with this site because I thought the cross-cultural input might amuse at both ends.

Millions in Med. in Oz? Orthopaedics, Eyes, Pathology groups, are the only ones who have a hope. I occasionally kick myself for not opting for Histopath. when I had the chance to be a founding partner in a company that eventually sold to a corporate for huge money, but I suspect I may have died long ago from boredom if I had.

As it is I keep myself amused running a small IT company as a side-line after I gave up running an Angora Goat and Alpaca stud.

 

[MedicineNutt]

Um, I don't think "simple-minded" means what you think it does, assuming you were trying to give a complement.

lol u know what i mean...living a simple life...sorry for the miscommunication there !!

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

I'd be happy being paid in pigs and fresh bread

pork is worthless, and unhealthy. they eat sewage. blah!


do insurance companies pay big outside the US? cuz i wanna scam insurance companies too, like that unlicensed GI doc.

 

[pagemmapants]

Chickens eat sewage. Rabbits have to re-eat their own poop. Cows regurgitate into their mouths and munch on it for hours. Some of the best food out there is also the most conceptually disgusting. Fois gras or maybe some marrow, anyone? Yum.

 

[Iseebigppl]

If you want to become rich, why don't you just become a banker/trader?

All of my friends from college became bankers and they're making a ****load of money while I'm in medical school. They will be making more money than me when I'm a physician also.

how exactly does one become a "banker," and make good money, as opposed to a "bank teller?"

 

[Jedix123]

There was an article in the Houston Chronicle today about a GI doc who cleared 44 million in 3 years. He doesn't have a license and tried to burn down his wife's house but that is another story. http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3716296.html

Ah to be a sugar daddy..

 

[don juan]

Are there any doctors/surgeons making more than a million per year? Are there many of them or do you have to be really really good to make that much?

michael crichton

 

[PhillyGuy]

i find it sad that people would choose elective plastic surgery over something essential like a needed heart surgery (my assumption)... (I have little regard for plastics)

Orthopedic surgeons can invent stuff?

I agree. However, many plastic surgeons spend most of their time doing reconstructive work. I have plenty of respect for them.

 

[BlondeCookie]

I agree. However, many plastic surgeons spend most of their time doing reconstructive work. I have plenty of respect for them.

Yeah. That's right! I read the initial replies on the 1st page showing disdain towards Plastic surgeons because the med students didn't think they were doing anything worthy of respect. And I thought, the judgemental comments in themselves are presumptious and rude. If a doctor is making his patients better, whether it is what society thinks or not, the that doctor is doing a worthy thing and deserves respect from his/her peers. How dare any person say otherwise??

 

[ShyRem]

As someone who at the age of 3 had a horse bite about 1/3 of my upper arm off (don't laugh - it was pretty horrible), the plastics folks did over 10 surgeries to close the defect - including taking partial thickness grafts to fill the hole for several of those surgeries while working to stretch the skin. I now have a noticable fairly large circumferential scar that overlaps under my arm. But it's linear and not an enormous hole; there's only so much they can do sometimes.

It's not all nose jobs for the rich and vain. Ask any trauma patient.

 

[Diceman M.D.]

Damn, it seems kind of obvious that children are a big drain on finances and can pretty much wreck your careful savings for investments, etc. That is, if you want to you know, educate and given them a good chance in life (as opposed to giving them a loincloth and a shiv and telling them to survive in the woods for a few years). Good thing I don't have kids. In any case, my plan was basically to work my ass off for a while after residency, join a good group that could boost my income, and slowly slowly start making investments on the side, mostly into commercial real estate (residential can be a downer, due to the fact that people who rent usually end up wrecking the apartments/rental homes they're in). Probably won't make big bank until I'm much older, but hey, that's okay as long as I can afford my dream car, the 1982 DeLorean DMC 12. Seriously, people with Ferraris are gonna go like OMG WTF when I open those beautiful gullwing doors on that shiny stainless steel body.

Anyone had good experience with hedge funds? I'm looking at all the rich neocons in the room (seriously, the more I realize I can make, and the more I realize I'll have to give up as taxes, the more I'm turning into one).

 

[Law2Doc]

Yeah. That's right! I read the initial replies on the 1st page showing disdain towards Plastic surgeons because the med students didn't think they were doing anything worthy of respect. And I thought, the judgemental comments in themselves are presumptious and rude. If a doctor is making his patients better, whether it is what society thinks or not, the that doctor is doing a worthy thing and deserves respect from his/her peers. How dare any person say otherwise??

Nothing wrong with plastics. But I think the perception of the specialty (on this board and in society in general) has been set back significantly by some of the docs on Dr 90210 and other makeover shows.

 

[laboholic]

I just want to make enough to buy me this yacht when i retire

link

 

[TheFlash]

Are there any doctors/surgeons making more than a million per year? Are there many of them or do you have to be really really good to make that much?

yes. my preceptor for GI pulls in nearly $3 million annually. he's the senior partner in a park avenue private GI practice, not counting how much the med school must be paying him to be faculty.

now THAT's BANK, SON.

 

[MikeyLu2010]

My cousin makes more than a million a year coming right after residency..but she's a cardiothoracic surgeon..i think shes up to 2 or 3 million a year now..having that said..she has absolutely no life outside work...still single..and 100% commited to her job

 

[billclinton]

My cousin makes more than a million a year coming right after residency..but she's a cardiothoracic surgeon..i think shes up to 2 or 3 million a year now..having that said..she has absolutely no life outside work...still single..and 100% commited to her job

pretty good considering the need for CT surgeons as dropped in the last few years...

 

[CTSballer11]

I just want to make enough to buy me this yacht when i retire

link

Hell yea

 

[Smoke This]

At my school the chairman of neurosurgery makes 840k and one of the ortho attendings makes over 1 million/year.

 

[NRAI2001]

yes. my preceptor for GI pulls in nearly $3 million annually. he's the senior partner in a park avenue private GI practice, not counting how much the med school must be paying him to be faculty.

now THAT's BANK, SON.

Wow, he makes 3 mill off his practice alone? Does he employ other docs and PAs or is he making the 3mill on his own?

Dam thats a lot of money

 

[NRAI2001]

If i can make 500k a year I ll be satisfied. I know someone of you may think thats still being greedy, but i think many docs can make upto 500k with some hard work.

My ambitions to become a millionare have gone way down along this entire process. I think i realized that most of my money will end up going to my wife and kids and little of it will be left for myself to spend. 500k a year will give you a very comfortable life any money after that will just go to your wifes shopping expenses.

 

[Ypo.]

If i can make 500k a year I ll be satisfied. I know someone of you may think thats still being greedy, but i think many docs can make upto 500k with some hard work.

My ambitions to become a millionare have gone way down along this entire process. I think i realized that most of my money will end up going to my wife and kids and little of it will be left for myself to spend. 500k a year will give you a very comfortable life any money after that will just go to your wifes shopping expenses.

Lucky wife.

 

[Plastikos]

if you're going into medicine for the money...

you're going into the wrong businesses

and doing your potential patients a great disservice.

I will gladly take any of the money that you guys feel so ashamed of making. Were most of you guys born into wealth or never had a job? Ever heard of taxes, you are going to **** when you see how much they take out. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to make money and in no way does that fact do your patients a great disservice. I have seen as many well intentioned low payed drs. do disservices to their pts as there are Dr. Rey's.

Actually going into medicine with the intent of making good money is exactly the right business. Its difficult, but no job where you make good money is simple. Although, in medicine you are basically guaranteed a damn good salary and dont have to be the best, the avg doc makes good money.


And for all you ignorant Plastics bashers: You should really learn something about a field before you start talking crap about it. Plastic surgeons do some of the best and most altruistic surgeries among the specialties. Just b/c there is also a facet that can be superficially exploited it gets a bad rap.

Moral: you dont have to be a duped slave to be a good physician, and most of you will realize this one day.

SIDE NOTE: I look forward to employing you guys in the future though, for the good of my patients. LMAO.

 

[Diceman M.D.]

Just so you guys don't freak out TOO much about taxes... the 1/3 to 1/2 that the government can take out of your salary doesn't apply to gross income, only taxable income. To the key is to lower your taxable income by deducting the HELL out of every item you possibly think you can on your gross. Seriously, the silliest stuff can be deducted - just experiment. That way, you can lower your taxable income bracket from 105K-326K to say, 60K-70K, which has a much lower tax rate. I know a lot of you may already know this but for the people who've never wrestled with taxes before this will prevent lot of "kneejerk republicanism" (ie. OMG WTF government takes half my money OUTLAW INCOME TAX PLZ)

Note: I agree heartily with Plastikos.

I will gladly take any of the money that you guys feel so ashamed of making. Were most of you guys born into wealth or never had a job? Ever heard of taxes, you are going to **** when you see how much they take out. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to make money and in no way does that fact do your patients a great disservice. I have seen as many well intentioned low payed drs. do disservices to their pts as there are Dr. Rey's.

Actually going into medicine with the intent of making good money is exactly the right business. Its difficult, but no job where you make good money is simple. Although, in medicine you are basically guaranteed a damn good salary and dont have to be the best, the avg doc makes good money.


And for all you ignorant Plastics bashers: You should really learn something about a field before you start talking crap about it. Plastic surgeons do some of the best and most altruistic surgeries among the specialties. Just b/c there is also a facet that can be superficially exploited it gets a bad rap.

Moral: you dont have to be a duped slave to be a good physician, and most of you will realize this one day.

SIDE NOTE: I look forward to employing you guys in the future though, for the good of my patients. LMAO.

 

[Law2Doc]

Seriously, the silliest stuff can be deducted - just experiment. That way, you can lower your taxable income bracket from 105K-326K to say, 60K-70K, which has a much lower tax rate. I know a lot of you may already know this but for the people who've never wrestled with taxes before this will prevent lot of "kneejerk republicanism" (ie. OMG WTF government takes half my money OUTLAW INCOME TAX PLZ)

Note: I agree heartily with Plastikos.

Not such good advice. Although a fairly small percentage of people get audited, a much larger percentage of higher income folks (eg doctors) do. And taking deductions you are not entitled to can lead to financial penalties plus interest, and if fraudulent then sometimes even jailtime. Periodically, high wealth individuals are made an example of by the IRS -- So absolutely do not "experiment". When you have this kind of income, consult an accountant and see what you are legally entitled to do. You have the right to minimize your taxes to the extent legally permitted by the Code and Regs, but you do not have the right to experiment and see what you can get away with. To do so risks your livelihood.