Military working hours vs Civilian working hours

[NAVYLABTECH08]

Hello all,

Just curious. Is there a major difference in the amount of hours that military surgeons work in comparison to their civilian counters? For example, everyone dreads the long neuro hours and the dedication required. Are military neurosurgeons or any surgeon as stressed about work than in the civilian sector. Excluding deployments and war, how miserable are military surgeons?

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[Galo]

Hello all,

Just curious. Is there a major difference in the amount of hours that military surgeons work in comparison to their civilian counters? For example, everyone dreads the long neuro hours and the dedication required. Are military neurosurgeons or any surgeon as stressed about work than in the civilian sector. Excluding deployments and war, how miserable are military surgeons?

If anything military surgeons are distressed about not working enough hours...ie not operating enough!

 

[IgD]

How about situations where you are the only specialist at a small facility? You are on call 24-7. Do you get situations like this at small community hospitals?

 

[Galo]

How about situations where you are the only specialist at a small facility? You are on call 24-7. Do you get situations like this at small community hospitals?

In this case you are literally a walking pager not able to go anywhere with little or nothing to do other than be in call. Especially if you are no longer supported by your base as in the OR is severely limited, you have no anesthesia, or you just do not even have an OR. You may have to use a civilian facility, but the end result is that you are still severely limited as to what you can do, and how much you can do. Skill deterioration is one of those issues you just cannot have as a surgeon.

 

[Perrotfish]

My impression was that the hours had gotten significantly worse with GWOT. Is that correct?

 

[NAVYLABTECH08]

It appears that your skills may not be fully used in the military sector. I am not quite sure what type, but I know I want to be some kind of surgeon. When the day is done and my military career is over, will I still be able to function as a surgeon (i.e neuro) in the civilian sector?

 

[Galo]

It appears that your skills may not be fully used in the military sector. I am not quite sure what type, but I know I want to be some kind of surgeon. When the day is done and my military career is over, will I still be able to function as a surgeon (i.e neuro) in the civilian sector?

There are too many ways to answer this, but it looks like you are going to have to do alot more reading of these forums. Short answer, yes you should be able to function on the outside. Better question is will you get to practice what you think you want, (neurosurgery), and will your military training be on par with civilian training. Again, a multitude of information on that. Its discussed everyday on these forums with a general attitude of those of us who have been thorugh the system that not only is in possible that you will not get to do the training you want, but that it may also be substandard.

You may be in the boat that you have some active duty time in already, and why waste it and not apply it towards retirement. If you really want to be a neurosurgeon, and have the grades and surgical skill, your salary as a civilian neurosurgeon could be more that half a million/year. On the military side, you will languish at some place where you may not have enough cases to even take boards for a few years, (happened at Wilford Hall), and you'll be lucky to break 100K. SO if retirement or any type of money is an issue, the military will only hold you back. In my opinion, it will POSSIBLY hold you back on training, and the quality of training.

Keep reading, and ask lots of questions, especially current AD physicians that you may have access to.

 

[NAVYLABTECH08]

Thanks for your input. I will continue to ask questions.

 

[Galo]

Given that the yearly specialty bonus for NSG is $36,000, I'd say it's a certainty that you will be well above 100k by the end of residency.

Gee, 130K is comparable to 6-700K?? Give me a break. There is just no way to compare the salary of a ns in the military versus one on the outside.

 

[Galo]

That's not what I was saying, nor is that what you originally said. You said that a residency-trained Neurosurgeon in the military would be lucky to break 100k. All I was saying is that your statement was stupid.

Also, if you factor in the very large bonuses you get for signing longer committments, any military BC Neurosurgeon will be making more than 200k. Also, the average salary in the U.S. for NSG is on the order of 350-400k. Are these comparable? Of course not. But at the same time, the disparity is not as bleak as you make it out to be.

Its amazing how people in a crap situation can sometimes be so sure of themselves when they are so wrong. Tell me of ONE DoD neurosurgeon you know that is making 200K. Also, I am pretty sure you're a little off on what the average NS in the civilian world makes. But even if you are not, a difference of 150K to 200K over say a minimum of 5 years is a hell of alot of money. If you do not realize that, the brainwashing has been too effective. Even beyond stupid.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Its amazing how people in a crap situation can sometimes be so sure of themselves when they are so wrong. Tell me of ONE DoD neurosurgeon you know that is making 200K. Also, I am pretty sure you're a little off on what the average NS in the civilian world makes. But even if you are not, a difference of 150K to 200K over say a minimum of 5 years is a hell of alot of money. If you do not realize that, the brainwashing has been too effective. Even beyond stupid.

If there is one thing we shouldn't argue about its what a military physician makes. It is definitely public record. So...I plugged a Navy Neurosurgeon in to the pay calculator with the following assumptions: lives in Bethesda, has kids.
1. Just out of training after 6 years, now an O4
$150000
2. Last obligated year (12 year mark), now an O5
$166,000
3. Stayed past initial obligation, now an O6 at 17 years with a 4 year MSP
$240,000



So, I know of at least one Navy Neurosurgeon making $200K, I also know a Navy cardiologist making in the $250k range.

I have no idea what a civilian NS makes (or why anyone in their right mind would want to be a NS). Galo, be nice to your surgical intern, he's already heading out on the short end of the sucky stick known as Camp Lejeune/Iraq GMO.

 

[Galo]

Yeah. misery loves company.

No neurosurgeon in his right mind would stay in that long. The worst example I know is an academy grad who got bamboozled into a sponsored ns civilian residency, and owes like 17 yrs of payback time. Different practices have offered to pay off the military in order to get him out, but you know the answer to that query.

 

[alpha62]

Civilian Cardiovascular Physician Assistant: $150,000 per year.

No Pregnant Bipolar females on your team to dig up on the weekends.

do that math and a risk matrix

 

[Re3iRtH]

Civilian Cardiovascular Physician Assistant: $150,000 per year.

No Pregnant Bipolar females on your team to dig up on the weekends.

do that math and a risk matrix

What?

 

[Re3iRtH]

Yeah. misery loves company.

No neurosurgeon in his right mind would stay in that long. The worst example I know is an academy grad who got bamboozled into a sponsored ns civilian residency, and owes like 17 yrs of payback time. Different practices have offered to pay off the military in order to get him out, but you know the answer to that query.

Just this past week, I met a spine surgeon, military.
He was a LtCol, so he has plenty of time till retirement.
But he wasnt an academy grad. He has no intentions to
switch over to civilian, thats what he told me in a 1v1
conversion. Makes me think that money is a lot more
important to some than others.

 

[alpha62]

What?

The Marines, they're looking for a few totally disruptive Bipolars.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

The Marines, they're looking for a few totally disruptive Bipolars.

I can't beleive your actually making fun of a dead pregnant woman. You're disgusting.