Military vs civilian urology training

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epsilonprodigy

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Anyone able to compare the quality of training in one vs the other, in terms if caseload, complexity, variety and opportunities to actually DO stuff as a resident? How do most military programs compare to the higher-quality civilian programs?

Background: I am not an HPSP student but am trying to decide if I should attempt to jump on the military bandwagon now vs. later (after residency.) This will be determined in part by differences in quality/preparatory ability of the residencies available. Thanks!

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Anyone able to compare the quality of training in one vs the other, in terms if caseload, complexity, variety and opportunities to actually DO stuff as a resident? How do most military programs compare to the higher-quality civilian programs?

Background: I am not an HPSP student but am trying to decide if I should attempt to jump on the military bandwagon now vs. later (after residency.) This will be determined in part by differences in quality/preparatory ability of the residencies available. Thanks!

Training is probably adequate either way as it is all governed by AUA standards. Will probably be impossible to find someone who has experienced both and can comment on your question. Regarding military, it's probably better to wait as long as possible. The financial benefits are about the same even if you wait. The biggest drawback to doing it now as far as uro goes is that there are very limited options in terms of residencies for military people. I think there are like 4. That means you may have to get waived into a civilian residency or you else have to do military residency in something else. They basically own you once you go military, and there is the possibility they will pull you out of residency after a year of surgery and deploy you as a GMO. I would wait at least until you have matched so that you can choose your place of training without military input.
 
I would advise against doing HPSP if your goal is to become a urologist.
 
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I think you can search my posts over at the military medicine forum and get a general idea of my frustrations.
 
I can only comment on the Navy as a current resident. The Navy does not have categorical residents, but the Air Force and Army do. In other words in the Navy, after internship you need to apply again for residency and generally do a GMO tour. You do get to operate quite a bit as well as see clinic. Just a word of caution, urology is now becoming very competitive both civilian and military. So keep your options open.
 
You'd probably see bigger balls in military uro.
 
Residency training is probably going to be similar military vs civilian. Ironically, military residency is probably a bit more relaxed and easy going. On the civilian side, numbers of patients matter more so. The attendings need to be busy and thus, as a resident you will be busy. This can be both a good and bad thing. It's always good to get experience. But after your 300th ureteroscopy for stones, it can be annoying having to cover that Friday afternoon 5pm ureteroscopy, yet again.

The big difference is once you get out. The military owns you in every sense of that word. They decide where you practice, how long you will be in a location, where you move to after that, etc. There is very little concern for the new graduate. You will likely be placed in one of the less desirable locations and find yourself doing very little. You'll have outpatient surgery, and most minor cases. That's great if that's all you want to do. But, if you want to do some oncology, robotics, etc, it can be very difficult to find those cases or be at a command that supports that work. Thus, in many ways the hospital will dictate even how you practice. Oh you want to do urodynamics on that patient with voiding dysfunction. Sorry, we don't have the funding for a urodynamic machine. Send out the patient. You want to do a PCNL? Oh, sorry, we don't have IR support. Send out the patient. The list goes on...

Now, if you compare yourselves to a civilian grad who comes out, he or she can probably find a job in a general region of the US. He might not get that job in Manhattan, but there's probably a job in Westchester, NJ, Long Island, or CT. So, at least he is in the general vicinity. The civilian grad will make more money - a lot more. And finally, she'll probably be at a hospital that supports her and doesn't find ways to impede patient care.

Think long and hard before signing that HPSP contract. I owe 4 years after residency. I went to a private med school and saved somewhere around $200k in student loan debt by taking the hpsp. If you take my base pay, bah, vsp, asp, isp x 3 years, board cert pay for about 2 years I am probably grossing about $700000 for the 4 years. That's just a guestimate, but I can't imagine I'm grossing more than that over the 4 years. Anyway, my civilian colleagues are bringing in at the minimum $400k per year. I know of some who make twice that. It doesn't take long to pay back all that student loan debt, squirrel away a bunch of money for retirement, and never have to deploy as a civilian doc.

Think long and hard about HPSP if you desire to become a surgical specialist, radiologist, anesthesiologist, etc. If you're going to be a family doc or internist, the argument probably favors military med.
 
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