Met with Home Program Director Today

[KurosawaRhap]

I'm a 3rd year student interested in derm. Spoke with my PD today just to get her thoughts on the whole process (I've only recently decided) and she was less than encouraging.

It wouldn't be a huge hit for me as I've only had my heart set on this for a short while but I wanted to run it past a couple more people before abandoning ship.

Pre-clinical = Pretty good. Almost all honors, one or two passes.

Step 1 = 250

Clinical (so far) = Decent. High passes, no honors. (Can't explain it. If I could, I would have tried to remedy this. The PD thought this was a pretty big hit as our clinical marks count double as compared to our pre-clinicals)

Research = No publications. No presentations. Some derm research over the summer but without the pubs/posters/presentations, I'm not sure it means much. The PD said the research was nice just to show an interest but any serious research takes a year off anyway. (Not sure if that was a hint)

AOA = Nope. I'm in the top 25% of the class but the cutoff was top 20%.

School rep = Not a good one.

So even as I'm typing this up, I realize, duh! Of course I wouldn't be an amazing applicant. But my hope was that I could get into any program. I'm not aiming at a specific location or a specific prestige level.

End note = My PD said that it usually takes 6-10 interviews to secure a spot. And well, with those stats, it just doesn't look like it will happen.

Again, not shocked, not surprised, not angry (well, maybe a little ). Just wanted to get some opinions. Highly enjoyed my family med rotation this year as well so there is a backup plan in place!

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[strongson]

you're PD was "less than encouraging". what exactly does that mean? she would obviously be the one with the greatest insight into what your (or other) program is looking for in an applicant. besides showing concern over clinical grades, and characterizing your research as "non-serious", did she offer any helpful advice?

I'm a 3rd year student interested in derm. Spoke with my PD today just to get her thoughts on the whole process (I've only recently decided) and she was less than encouraging.

It wouldn't be a huge hit for me as I've only had my heart set on this for a short while but I wanted to run it past a couple more people before abandoning ship.

Pre-clinical = Pretty good. Almost all honors, one or two passes.

Step 1 = 250

Clinical (so far) = Decent. High passes, no honors. (Can't explain it. If I could, I would have tried to remedy this. The PD thought this was a pretty big hit as our clinical marks count double as compared to our pre-clinicals)

Research = No publications. No presentations. Some derm research over the summer but without the pubs/posters/presentations, I'm not sure it means much. The PD said the research was nice just to show an interest but any serious research takes a year off anyway. (Not sure if that was a hint)

AOA = Nope. I'm in the top 25% of the class but the cutoff was top 20%.

School rep = Not a good one.

So even as I'm typing this up, I realize, duh! Of course I wouldn't be an amazing applicant. But my hope was that I could get into any program. I'm not aiming at a specific location or a specific prestige level.

End note = My PD said that it usually takes 6-10 interviews to secure a spot. And well, with those stats, it just doesn't look like it will happen.

Again, not shocked, not surprised, not angry (well, maybe a little ). Just wanted to get some opinions. Highly enjoyed my family med rotation this year as well so there is a backup plan in place!

 

[KurosawaRhap]

you're PD was "less than encouraging". what exactly does that mean? she would obviously be the one with the greatest insight into what your (or other) program is looking for in an applicant. besides showing concern over clinical grades, and characterizing your research as "non-serious", did she offer any helpful advice?

Not really. That's why I came here. She was kind of aloof and seemed anxious to end the meeting.

She recommended doing as many away rotations as humanly possible if I'm not in the top 10% of my class. (Even sacrificing vacations just to "work" at an away site. It doesn't count because my school limits how many electives you spend in one specialty)

She's a big researcher herself but there was no discussion regarding attaining a publication before the year ended or possibly taking a year off to puruse research.

 

[OntheRoof55]

hey I'm pretty much in the same boat as you...similar grades/usmle/research...just realized i wanted to derm this year (I'm also a third year) i feel like my best chances are going to be here at my home school, so gonna try for that and also apply for medicine as a back up =( wish i had gotten started earlier

 

[Long Dong]

I had the same not so encouraring feeling when I spoke to the people at my derm department around Jan of my third year as well, and had similar stats too. So all you other wouldbe dermies out there the take home message is if you even have the slightest inclination to do derm, start research asap.

If you look at this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=487784

The guy there has the same stats as well so I'll cut and paste my response to him in this thread:

I agree with the guy above don't listen to them. Around this time in my third year advisors from my school were telling me the same thing. To take a year off for research. My parents said hell no you got to get out from under our support. I had similar stats also with no pubs, but it is not to late. I got off 2 submissions by the begining of 4th year and they eventually became accepted for pub right before the rank list was due and I took step 2 keeping my boards in the 250s. I emailed my number 1 this updated info and matched there so don't let the nay sayers keep you down, esp those on the dermboard. Only about 70 people had above 250 last year who applied to derm, so 250 is still a great score. I know pleanty of people with 230-240s who matched. Just get the rest of your app together via pubs/rubing elbows, get a similiar score on step 2 to show that your step1 was not a fluke and you should be good to go. Take that year off if you don't match the first time around.

 

[KurosawaRhap]

I had the same not so encouraring feeling when I spoke to the people at my derm department around Jan of my third year as well, and had similar stats too. So all you other wouldbe dermies out there the take home message is if you even have the slightest inclination to do derm, start research asap.

If you look at this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=487784

The guy there has the same stats as well so I'll cut and paste my response to him in this thread:

I agree with the guy above don't listen to them. Around this time in my third year advisors from my school were telling me the same thing. To take a year off for research. My parents said hell no you got to get out from under our support. I had similar stats also with no pubs, but it is not to late. I got off 2 submissions by the begining of 4th year and they eventually became accepted for pub right before the rank list was due and I took step 2 keeping my boards in the 250s. I emailed my number 1 this updated info and matched there so don't let the nay sayers keep you down, esp those on the dermboard. Only about 70 people had above 250 last year who applied to derm, so 250 is still a great score. I know pleanty of people with 230-240s who matched. Just get the rest of your app together via pubs/rubing elbows, get a similiar score on step 2 to show that your step1 was not a fluke and you should be good to go. Take that year off if you don't match the first time around.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Is there some point that you would recommend going for a safer route and ditching the derm dream?

For instance, if you're starting out 4th year and you find yourself still with no pubs/no AOA/no honors in the clinical years?

 

[Long Dong]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Is there some point that you would recommend going for a safer route and ditching the derm dream?

For instance, if you're starting out 4th year and you find yourself still with no pubs/no AOA/no honors in the clinical years?

Never ever ditch derm, esp with your 250. Trust me as an intern rotating threw all these different services I thank the lord more now than ever that I was lucky enough to get derm. Working with residents in medicine, surg, and peds, who were probably all bright eyed bushy tail med students, more then happy to get into their fields, now are all miserable, complaining of no sleep, no social life, getting dumped on by other services and crappy admits that the ED hasn't even worked up. Trust me you don't want to be one of these guys.

You'll get in just keep at it. Say at the start of 4th year and no pubs/no honors then start networking around spring (april/may) for a research postion. Take that year off between 3rd and 4th year, study like no tomorrow for step 2 during that year as well and you should be able to bust 250/260s. You should also be able to publish several things in that time: case study, review article, basic sci, or present a poster at the AAD.

 

[KurosawaRhap]

Never ever ditch derm, esp with your 250. Trust me as an intern rotating threw all these different services I thank the lord more now than ever that I was lucky enough to get derm. Working with residents in medicine, surg, and peds, who were probably all bright eyed bushy tail med students, more then happy to get into their fields, now are all miserable, complaining of no sleep, no social life, getting dumped on by other services and crappy admits that the ED hasn't even worked up. Trust me you don't want to be one of these guys.

You'll get in just keep at it. Say at the start of 4th year and no pubs/no honors then start networking around spring (april/may) for a research postion. Take that year off between 3rd and 4th year, study like no tomorrow for step 2 during that year as well and you should be able to bust 250/260s. You should also be able to publish several things in that time: case study, review article, basic sci, or present a poster at the AAD.

Thanks for the reassurance!

 

[mashnuts]

Never ever ditch derm, esp with your 250. Trust me as an intern rotating threw all these different services I thank the lord more now than ever that I was lucky enough to get derm. Working with residents in medicine, surg, and peds, who were probably all bright eyed bushy tail med students, more then happy to get into their fields, now are all miserable, complaining of no sleep, no social life, getting dumped on by other services and crappy admits that the ED hasn't even worked up. Trust me you don't want to be one of these guys.

You'll get in just keep at it. Say at the start of 4th year and no pubs/no honors then start networking around spring (april/may) for a research postion. Take that year off between 3rd and 4th year, study like no tomorrow for step 2 during that year as well and you should be able to bust 250/260s. You should also be able to publish several things in that time: case study, review article, basic sci, or present a poster at the AAD.

thanks for all the replies. i'm actually the other poster you referenced in teh earlier post

similar stats but unlike this guy/gal, i'm pretty much done with the year. no honors/no aoa/no pubs...sticky situation

anyway, you mentioned that it may be worth taking a year off in between 3rd and 4th year to do research to bolster an application

my questions is: if you decide to apply anyway, fail to match (oh god ), and then take the year off for research, are you chances significantly lowered?

i was hoping to avoid taking the year off and just giving it a shot but if it means giving myself a shorter leash the 2nd time around, i might just have to bite the bullet and take the yr off earlier

again (on behalf of all the derm wannabe freakouts), thanks for your insights

 

[KurosawaRhap]

thanks for all the replies. i'm actually the other poster you referenced in teh earlier post

similar stats but unlike this guy/gal, i'm pretty much done with the year. no honors/no aoa/no pubs...sticky situation

anyway, you mentioned that it may be worth taking a year off in between 3rd and 4th year to do research to bolster an application

my questions is: if you decide to apply anyway, fail to match (oh god ), and then take the year off for research, are you chances significantly lowered?

i was hoping to avoid taking the year off and just giving it a shot but if it means giving myself a shorter leash the 2nd time around, i might just have to bite the bullet and take the yr off earlier

again (on behalf of all the derm wannabe freakouts), thanks for your insights

I just read through your original thread and I have to say I share many of the same insecurities/questions/issues. I too spoke with my dean about two months ago and with no honors on board, he too was hesitant about urging me to go forward with a derm application not to mention structuring a 4th year schedule around the notion of a derm application

But as I go to other boards here, I'm not seeing much else that I'm interested in. I'm trying to talk myself into radiology, which, according to my dean, is a much easier match, and while both fields offer highly visual processes, decent lifestyle, and decent salary, it just doesn't interest me. I think, ultimately, I will even go as far as to take a year off to pursue this interest. Although you do mention an interesting point. I have heard that your chances for re-applying go down significantly if you've already failed to match once.

Maybe it is worth "pre-emptively" doing the year of research before applying the 1st time around?

 

[discontinuebed]

I was under the impression 3rd year grades are only meaningful in terms of acquiring an AOA position.

If you manage to make it to AOA (Jr or Sr), maybe the lack of honors isn't such a problem anymore?

(I have no idea how you can go about getting Jr AOA without honors but this is a hypothetical )

 

[Long Dong]

my questions is: if you decide to apply anyway, fail to match (oh god ), and then take the year off for research, are you chances significantly lowered?

I've heard that it is hard when you reapply but this is just rumors. You might wanna ask a faculty at this site for some better insight:

http://www.derminterest.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=445cb9e6d7f48207470b4a696b41225e

The PD at OSU said this "Once a program has "turned you down" more than once, it starts to become less likely that will consider you strongly."

Maybe it is worth "pre-emptively" doing the year of research before applying the 1st time around?

The people that I've known who took a year off and had good boards got a lot of interviews and matched well. So yes it might be worth it if you have no honors, and no pubs to do the pre-emptive year of research.