Med in US -> Residency in Canada

[PLT]

Sorry if this has been discussed ad infintum, but I wasn't able to find a previous thread to help me.

I am curious about the ease of matching to a Canadian residency after undergraduate medical school in the US as I've heard many conflicting thoughts on this issue.
Additionally, what advantage (if any) do you think that going to a 'good' school in the US may have on matching to a competetive residency program in Canada.

Thanks

edit: I am a Canadian citizen

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[Kakoshi]

Hi,
I've actually served on the postgrad selection committee and have seen several applicants like yourself.
Short answer is we don't really care what medical school you went to except for our medical school.
All the dean's letters and transcripts are so different from school to school it make comparison impossibly hard. We don't have a USMLE I equivalent so it's not easy trying to understand what honours at one school means compared to another.
You do need to do some electives in Canada though and if you can do an elective in the school of your choice you should definately do it. Just remember though we use different units than in the US so interpretation of some of our lab values may seem very different than what you're used to.
You also need good letters of reference which isn't any different than what you'd need in the US match but you should try and get them from your Canadian electives as there is a bigger chance someone on the committee may recognize them.
We did rank them BTW but they either dropped out of CaRMS to do the US match or they matched to another Canadian program I guess.

 

[):(]

Do American grads who are Canadian citizens have a significantly better chance of matching in Canada than European or Caribbean grads? Can American graduates get into residency programs such as surgery or are they restricted to family practice and internal medicine? What I am trying to get at, are American graduates competitive with Canadian graduates?

 

[Kakoshi]

As long as an American medical school grad has permanent residence or Canadian citizenship they are eligible for the first iteration of CaRMS and are not restricted in applying for only the second iteration (ie the leftovers) as were international medical school grads.
In other words American med school grads can apply for any Canadian program they want and be ranked in the first round of the match.
So to answer your question American med school grads were treated as equals to the Canadian med school grads although I don't think many apply.
In previous CaRMS rounds the first iteration was restricted to grads of Canadian or US medical schools but now it may be opening up to all international grads. Although many programs are fighting it. We don't have a USMLE I so it's really hard to evaluate candidates already that are Canadian grads.

 

[shetland]

As long as an American medical school grad has permanent residence or Canadian citizenship they are eligible for the first iteration of CaRMS and are not restricted in applying for only the second iteration (ie the leftovers) as were international medical school grads.
In other words American med school grads can apply for any Canadian program they want and be ranked in the first round of the match.
So to answer your question American med school grads were treated as equals to the Canadian med school grads although I don't think many apply.
In previous CaRMS rounds the first iteration was restricted to grads of Canadian or US medical schools but now it may be opening up to all international grads. Although many programs are fighting it. We don't have a USMLE I so it's really hard to evaluate candidates already that are Canadian grads.

Hi
Apart from recomendation letter, How do you rank Cdn med school grads if the school only does a honours, pass fail system?
Cheers

 

[Kakoshi]

Hi
Apart from recomendation letter, How do you rank Cdn med school grads if the school only does a honours, pass fail system?
Cheers

With great difficulty.
What we did was assign a mark to the applicants file then a mark to their interview and then discussed them all pre rank.
Honours seemed worthless because certain schools all their grads seemed to have them but others only had minimal. Also differing schools use different cutoffs for honours.
Really only the supersmart students stood out like Governor General's or prizes for best in rotation or best in the year.
We cared alot more about applicants that did local electives, did well and who seemed like we could live with for the next few years.
BTW you'd be surprised at how many candidates did poorly in interviews so my advice is to practice them.

 

[shetland]

With great difficulty.
What we did was assign a mark to the applicants file then a mark to their interview and then discussed them all pre rank.
Honours seemed worthless because certain schools all their grads seemed to have them but others only had minimal. Also differing schools use different cutoffs for honours.
Really only the supersmart students stood out like Governor General's or prizes for best in rotation or best in the year.
We cared alot more about applicants that did local electives, did well and who seemed like we could live with for the next few years.
BTW you'd be surprised at how many candidates did poorly in interviews so my advice is to practice them.

Cheers Kakoshi. Thanks for the heads up.

Whereabouts in Canada are you from?

 

[MeowMix]

thanks, Kakoshi, for the details - this is really helpful.

 

[Kakoshi]

Cheers Kakoshi. Thanks for the heads up.

Whereabouts in Canada are you from?

No worries.

I'm from Edmonton originally but I'm not there now.

Probably shouldn't give too much info away just in case some angry MS IV comes down and tries to mess with me for not letting them into the program.

Oh yeah one other thing I forgot to mention is that it's much easier to compare interschool applicants ie to applicants from the same school so you'll have to be aware out for that.
A couple schools allow you to release your clinical clerk 3rd year marks on the various subject exams but will only allow you to do so in an all or none fashion so if your fellow applicant releases them and you don't, it makes us somewhat more nervous.

 

[shetland]

No worries.

I'm from Edmonton originally but I'm not there now.

Probably shouldn't give too much info away just in case some angry MS IV comes down and tries to mess with me for not letting them into the program.

Oh yeah one other thing I forgot to mention is that it's much easier to compare interschool applicants ie to applicants from the same school so you'll have to be aware out for that.
A couple schools allow you to release your clinical clerk 3rd year marks on the various subject exams but will only allow you to do so in an all or none fashion so if your fellow applicant releases them and you don't, it makes us somewhat more nervous.

Fair enough. I appreciate what you have shared with us.

It must be a difficult decision to decide which applicant for programs, esp. if Cdn schools have a pass fail or pass fail honours system. You are right about the interview process, I guess interview for med school is only the begining, i guess it never ends until you find a job, but continues when you change posts.

I am excited and at the sme time feel nervous about starting school. Hope all is well with you.

 

[medinvan]

HI Kakoshi,

in your opinion, do most residencies prefer (and rank higher) students from their own medical school versus from another med school?

And aside from the home medical school, do residency programs prefer certain med schools over others? Would you say a school's reputation plays a part at all? What about region (eg Western Can, vs, East)? And if I live in place X all my life, then went to place Y for med school, and want to be back in place X for residency, does that at all benefit my application for a place X residency?

Also, are clerkships generally graded H/P/F and P/F, or are there actual marks? Do all schools allow students to release these actual marks, or if not, do you know which schools do and don't?

THanks. Sorry for so many questions.

 

[Kakoshi]

We do prefer our own medical students usually because we know them best. If we don't know you and you're from our school there better be a really good explanation why you didn't do an elective at your own school!

The school I interviewed for did not care what school you came from too much. We bashed some Toronto people but to be honest they did have attitude issues ie why should we even consider leaving the great city of Toronto. We didn't care honestly if you were from Saskatchewan vs Toronto otherwise. Schools in Canada don't play a role because like it or not we see them all as fairly similar. We didn't care about regions either ie West Can vs. East. You have to remember that most PD's know how to use CaRMS to our advantage as well so we rank the best candidates not the ones we think are coming to our program. Going back home doesn't not help you with making us rank you higher although it is a nice hook.

The Dean's letter's I saw and remember did show for some schools Honours Pass Fail for each rotation, some summarized it year by year, some showed marks for exams, some schools don't have honours even, some you can block all your marks, some have scores out of 5 with 5 being outstanding and 1 being godawful and 3 being average.... What I'm getting at is that every school is different making our comparsion from school to school insanely hard. We can compare interschool wise though so it's something to keep in mind, ie your class Governor General awardee applies and so do you, but don't let it stop you or anything. I can't remember which schools do what BTW. Don't let be a decision maker for yourself because it will probably change by the time it begins to matter to you as every school tinkers with their Dean's letter.

Hope this helps.

HI Kakoshi,

in your opinion, do most residencies prefer (and rank higher) students from their own medical school versus from another med school?

And aside from the home medical school, do residency programs prefer certain med schools over others? Would you say a school's reputation plays a part at all? What about region (eg Western Can, vs, East)? And if I live in place X all my life, then went to place Y for med school, and want to be back in place X for residency, does that at all benefit my application for a place X residency?

Also, are clerkships generally graded H/P/F and P/F, or are there actual marks? Do all schools allow students to release these actual marks, or if not, do you know which schools do and don't?

THanks. Sorry for so many questions.