So, I
started attending med school in Australia..5-6 years ago now.
I went on the basis of all international students were getting internships on applying. That was the year before I started.
the year I started, there was a shortfall of internships for the first time.
At the last minute, a month before internship started the federal government stepped in and created more positions,
but they're not a guarantee every year either.
Additionally, as the years got on, essentially nearly all international students end up working in rural hospitals for intern year (if not more). This is current state of things.
Even a good chunk of domestic students end up working in rural hospitals for residency not of their own volition. But because there are not enough metropolitan spots. Just to illustrate how changeable things are. If not year to year, then month to month.
If you want to rely on official 'government' statements of policy, go forth, it's your life after all. But the governments and ministries
are fickle and they don't care about grandfathering changes either. ACT can only make this "guarantee" while the international cohort is small. I've said this so many times on different threads. ANU is a medical school in a tiny city - canberra, in a small state - ACT. > 40% of domestic students attending ANU are actually from cities like Sydney (i.e. they could not get accepted in their home state - which is very common, the entry requirements vary very greatly for them). So they will not choose to stay in canberra after grad, they will move out for internship back to Sydney, Melbourne etc.
Class sizes are growing in all states. ACT may not get to guarantee anything forever. Or maybe you'll get lucky. Many of the domestics also want things that the small hospitals in ACT cannot offer.
Majority of premeds have no idea what they want. Most medical students change their minds every day, if not every month or every rotation by the time they get to the clinical years.
This is normal.
Unless you're thinking of getting internship in Australia, in order to move back to the UK, it's getting to be a torturous process to remain in Australia for training. Doesn't matter if you get an internship or not right now. with the VISA situation (unless that changes), you won't be able to register for a number of programs with the colleges (vocational training) until after 5 years of working random resident jobs or house officer years.
That's if you choose to stay long term. As in you wouldn't get to formally be registered for GP training to finish that off until you have Australian PR. Same for any surgical specialty or general surgery. Even then, nowadays, people are rotating until PGY6 to even get on any surgical program if not longer.
So, there's a number of UK grads that work in Australia after their foundation years as house officers for 1-2 years. then they get onto programs back home and leave for registrar training.
Finally, Australia is not the UK. Not entirely. Former colony yes, that still adopts some of the same training structures, such that Australia is more similar to the UK than the US or Canada.
But none of the Australian schools will hold the same prestige as Oxbridge - as medical schools that is. Research at a particular Australian hospital is different. If you want research, I'd strongly suggest looking into the hospitals affiliated with the med school and not the school itself. If you want transplant research and medicine, attend a school affiliated or close to a transplant hospital. then you will get access to transplant patients and data. there's a lot of fluff that the Australian schools add to their programmes to get their rankings, because they know it brings in business. research yes, is part of it. but sometimes they like to add things like "global health courses" - which sound great, but could end up being an online course. There's a lot of gaming the rankings.
The school matters yes, but really only with regards to the ability to match to the hospital with stronger training in what it is you wish to specialize in. Or access to a hospital's research if that's what you're wanting (what their consultants are doing really).
For instance, if you want rural medicine, you would attend a rural school like James cook University. They will train you well to be a rural generalist, you match in hospitals that will arm doctors to be strong rural generalists.
Compared to other schools in the entire state JCU is located in, it's graduates have much greater practical skills as residents on average. It's more practical, although it may be less research heavy in subspecialty fields. It's a trade-off.
If you want a subspecialty, they're so competitive now that nearly all subspec fellowships require research. even getting onto registrar programs, there is a certain level of expectation (Surgery definitely).
For Neurosurgery, in this case, you would need to be at a school with connections to large tertiary hospitals that have neurosurgery programs - so you can start research as a student potentially (if keen). Or it gives you the chance to make connections and get LORs to match at a hospital with strong neurosurgery programs. Then you get the Nsurg rotations as a resident. It's all about making the right connections, getting the appropriate training (via rotations as a resident) and referees. Small hospitals will not have neurosurgery. However, this is generally the case for domestics.
For internationals, as I stated early, it's not merit based. Already, because you don't have PR, very rarely will you be hired by a tertiary hospital. (not impossible mind you, but rarely nowadays) What's left to you is rural or regional. Neither of which will have neurosurgery for instance. So it hardly matters where you go to school. It can be very challenging to move from a rural hospital to a tertiary one after internship or residency. Because so many want tertiary. At least those first couple of years of postgrad. And most hospitals are loyal to their own home-grown interns and residents, with some exceptions. If they know their own trained interns and residents are reliable and want to stay with them, why would they hire outsiders they don't know?
So, I would disagree with this idea:
but if the teaching/resources are not as good as other unis, it puts you in a less advantaged position when competing with fellow doctors in the future as you haven't seen/done as much as others have.
Resources matter more with respect to what you want to be trained as. (
In terms of the skills you pick up to be a doctor, not necessarily just lecture and textbooks. There's a whole more to medical school than didactics). If you want neurosurgery, sure you're at a disadvantage if you go to some small rural medical school. Sure.
Also, all your lecturers at any Australian school had to train through the same colleges in their registrar or fellowship years. And you don't need to know the depths of neurosurgery as a student. You just need the basics to neuro/neurosurg. Pathology in the preclinical years is taught by pathologists, who all went to the Royal college of pathology.
Moreover, med school unlike uni, is about 'independent' or self-directed learning. they love that term. "self-directed". There's scores of threads griping on this issue on SDN, like poor Goro's derailed thread. I feel like half the students out there believe that USMLE review resources like Kaplan are better than their own school's coursework
(they're rampantly used even by Australians who have no interest in going to the US or ever taking the USMLE - it's the review material they like. Such as Pathoma).
Some even choose to completely abandon their school lectures for USMLE materials (things that anyone can purchase without even attending med school). In which case, then everyone has universal access to all the best things.
Don't confuse global rankings with quality teaching either. remember, doctors are trained to be clinicians, not teachers or lecturers or tutors.
If you want to debate about where you go to med school matters you can join the bandwagon here -
Apparently where we go to school affects our level of care. But I would argue that in terms of resources, doesn't matter in Australia. It matters in terms of access to research and consultants working the fields you want, sure, then it matters where you go.
All premeds and meds get stuck at thinking about internship when it comes to post-grad training. I did the same thing. If you don't want to think beyond intern year, which it sounds like you do - it's your call. It's a lot to consider about before even starting school when you haven't been immersed in hospital or medical culture yet. It was not something I wished to worry about, but I was mindful of it when I need to be (like planning out rotations/electives). That said. It's okay to have this mindset if you're flexible about things, go with the flow and are not entitled (which so many med students are). Then you won't be disappointed or disillusioned. It's been said in other threads, when you go offshore, it's a roll of the dice, and you have to be okay with where it lands. (The exception, is if you're from Singapore and intend to return there - in terms of, should you want a guaranteed job after grad)
Just because you get general registration as intern, doesn't entitle you to registration to any college in Australia.
For the UK, you would know more than me.
Edited for grammar and clarity.
