MCAT question

[Gallix23]

Hey everyone,

Out of curiosity, I was looking at a few websites that give information about what the average GPA/MCAT scores were for the students who were accepted to different medical schools. However, when I looked at "Average MCAT" it said "9.5".

What does 9.5 actually mean? I find it hard to believe that the students at BU medical averaged out to a 9.5 MCAT score?

Thanks for any help!

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[Crazyday]

That might mean average MCAT individual scores, because very few people get into medical school with a 9.5 composite, if any.

The MCAT has 4 sections: Verbal, Physical Science, Biological Science, and Writing. The first three are on a number scale from 1-15, and Writing is on a letter scale. Much less emphasis is on the writing as on the first three.

The highest MCAT score is a 45T. The average MCAT is around a 27 or so I think. That average of 9.5 must mean for each individual section.

 

[Gallix23]

That might mean average MCAT individual scores, because very few people get into medical school with a 9.5 composite, if any.

The MCAT has 4 sections: Verbal, Physical Science, Biological Science, and Writing. The first three are on a number scale from 1-15, and Writing is on a letter scale. Much less emphasis is on the writing as on the first three.

The highest MCAT score is a 45T. The average MCAT is around a 27 or so I think. That average of 9.5 must mean for each individual section.

Ohh, I see. So the average composite would be around a 36? Exactly how hard is it to get a score in the 30s?

Oh, and when you apply to med schools, when do you get your decision letters back?

 

[Crazyday]

Ohh, I see. So the average composite would be around a 36? Exactly how hard is it to get a score in the 30s?

Oh, and when you apply to med schools, when do you get your decision letters back?

Average composite isn't a 36. The writing doesn't get a number score, it's juts a letter. If the score has an average of 9.5, then the composite average is probably around a 27-29.

And you usually want a balanced score, ie. a 10BS 10PS 10V is preferable to a 12BS 10PS 8V.

Not sure on the med school letters thing. I haven't read up too much on the whole when you get a response thing, although I know you want to send applications as early as possible.

 

[DrYoda]

Oh, and when you apply to med schools, when do you get your decision letters back?

You send in a primary application at earliest in June, then you get and send back a secondary application (some schools give everyone a secondary, some screen). Then you get an interview invitation and go to the interview. After the interview it take a variable amount of time to hear back (two weeks was the shortest for me), you can hear anytime up until Mar 30th. After that you are on a waitlist and can hear back any day until classes start (but most usually get un-waitlisted in May or June).

So basically there's alot of waiting for many people. Earliest day you can be accepted is Oct. 15th unless you do early decision.

 

[Maygyver]

Ohh, I see. So the average composite would be around a 36? Exactly how hard is it to get a score in the 30s?

Oh, and when you apply to med schools, when do you get your decision letters back?

Just a little confusion here. There are 4 sections, however, only 3 of them are added to create the number. The writing section is just the letter after the number. So for the school you were looking at the average would be roughly a 28.5. As far as how hard is it to get a score in the 30s, in simple terms, hard. Don't worry too much about it now. If you study hard in undergrad and study even harder before you take the exam, you will do fine. Just do your best. If you want more specifics, you can check out the MCAT forums just to get a glimpse of how much people study and the breadth of material. Don't start studying now though.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Just for the record, lots of places list their averages in terms of average section score, so when you see numbers lower than 15 listed, that's what's up. This practice is totally baffling since people routinely score quite a bit lower on the verbal section than in the sciences. The average matriculant's MCAT score is a 31.2. As Crazyday said, there are only 3 sections, verbal, physical sciences, and biological sciences, that are assigned numbered scores. The writing section is scored with letters J-T, presumably because that section is complete crap and disregarded unless you absolutely bomb it (or live in Canada).

As for how hard it is to get in the 30's, I think a 30 is roughly the 75-80th percentile.

 

[Gallix23]

Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it.

This is just sort of a random question, but I'm in a huge undergrad conundrum right now and I was wondering if you guys knew any websites that listed the % of pre-meds admitted to medical school from a given university? I want to compare the two schools that I'm debating, but they have drastically different numbers of students so percentages would be awesome. Is there such a thing out there?

 

[Maygyver]

To be completely honest, the biggest part of getting into medical school is work you do yourself. I think a lot of the legs up you can get from going to a school with a good advising system, you can get from on here. As long as you go to a pretty good school in your state, you should be good as long as you put in the effort. What schools are you considering?

 

[Gallix23]

To be completely honest, the biggest part of getting into medical school is work you do yourself. I think a lot of the legs up you can get from going to a school with a good advising system, you can get from on here. As long as you go to a pretty good school in your state, you should be good as long as you put in the effort. What schools are you considering?

It's between Northeastern University and Emmanuel College (small liberal arts school in Boston).

Northeastern is huge, has a very strong science program, is a well respected school, has amazing co-op (especially for pre-meds) and an early-acceptance program with Tufts med school. It's expensive though =/

Emmanuel is tiny, has a brand new science building opening in fall 2009, has two hospitals literally a stone's throw away, a branch of Merck Research labs on campus, and I could possibly join a small research team at MGH run by a professor. Emmanuel is significantly cheaper.

And so, I am torn. My teachers are pushing me to go to Northeastern because they want me to challenge myself and say Emmanuel wouldn't be as rigorous, but the financial aspect is pretty scary.

 

[MilkmanAl]

In my opinion, it depends on what "significantly cheaper" means. If it's 5 grand a year, go to Northeastern. 20 a year, go to Emmanuel. The cheaper school should have the edge since you can always challenge yourself if you want, and GPA is GPA, for the most part, where med schools are concerned. The mitigating factor is that a larger school is likely to have a more diverse class selection, so you can take more specialized classes there.

 

[Gallix23]

In my opinion, it depends on what "significantly cheaper" means. If it's 5 grand a year, go to Northeastern. 20 a year, go to Emmanuel. The cheaper school should have the edge since you can always challenge yourself if you want, and GPA is GPA, for the most part, where med schools are concerned. The mitigating factor is that a larger school is likely to have a more diverse class selection, so you can take more specialized classes there.

Yeah, Northeastern has ten-fold the class selection that Emmanuel does. But the money would be about $20-25,000 difference, unless they choose to give me more money when I go beg and plead at the financial office this week

 

[MilkmanAl]

Oof, 20k per year is really hard to justify for undergrad. I hope for your sake you get a nice scholarship from Northeastern to make the call simple.

 

[Gallix23]

Oof, 20k per year is really hard to justify for undergrad. I hope for your sake you get a nice scholarship from Northeastern to make the call simple.

Yeah, I'm praying for something. I mean, the Co-ops do make good money which could be put towards the total cost, but right now financial aid is throwing me to the dogs. But my teachers, despite the cost, are still telling me to go NU because they feel it is that much of a better school. I mean, it is amazing and I did research over the summer there, but that much debt is pretty tough to imagine.

 

[Maygyver]

Yeah, 20k is a lot for undergrad. Aren't there any other options for undergrad schools you would like?

 

[Gallix23]

Yeah, 20k is a lot for undergrad. Aren't there any other options for undergrad schools you would like?

Oh, it's not 20k per year, it's 20k per semester. I wish it was only 20k a year

And I got into those two schools and a state school, but the state school doesn't have great hospital/research access.

 

[Maygyver]

WOWOWOWOW. That's ridiculous. What's the state school?

 

[MilkmanAl]

The state school will likely have plenty of research going on even if it doesn't have a hospital. Only the smallest, most obscure state schools don't conduct large amounts of research. The faculty will all still be PhD's.

 

[Maygyver]

The state school will likely have plenty of research going on even if it doesn't have a hospital. Only the smallest, most obscure state schools don't conduct large amounts of research. The faculty will all still be PhD's.

I would definitely check out the state school. In my opinion, it is probably better than going to a small liberal arts school.

 

[Gallix23]

I would definitely check out the state school. In my opinion, it is probably better than going to a small liberal arts school.

That's what I've heard, but the state school is Umass Amherst which is in the middle of no where. For some reason I didn't get into the honors college within the school either, even though I meet the criteria, so that means I'd be succumb to the hundred-person lecture halls with all the other party animals.

Emmanuel is going to cost about the same price as state school, but has 2 hospitals a literal stone's throw away and a professional research lab on campus. It also has a brand new science building opening in fall 2009. Plus, I contacted a professor there who is also a transplant surgeon, and he selects a few students every year to join his reaserach team (all whom get accepted to med/dental school).

But yet, I am still being pressed by ALL my teachers to go to NU. I'm really torn, I don't know what to do.

 

[DLi]

That's what I've heard, but the state school is Umass Amherst which is in the middle of no where. For some reason I didn't get into the honors college within the school either, even though I meet the criteria, so that means I'd be succumb to the hundred-person lecture halls with all the other party animals.

Emmanuel is going to cost about the same price as state school, but has 2 hospitals a literal stone's throw away and a professional research lab on campus. It also has a brand new science building opening in fall 2009. Plus, I contacted a professor there who is also a transplant surgeon, and he selects a few students every year to join his reaserach team (all whom get accepted to med/dental school).

But yet, I am still being pressed by ALL my teachers to go to NU. I'm really torn, I don't know what to do.

Go to NU if your parents aren't that rich, because the massive sticker price is usually just for the rich kids. And be sure to seek out financial aid and scholarships as often as you can. UMass Amherst is also a great place to go, and I'm going to a massive state university myself.

I don't have a preference for small liberal arts schools, but they aren't usually known for their research and pre-med programs.

 

[Gallix23]

Go to NU if your parents aren't that rich, because the massive sticker price is usually just for the rich kids. And be sure to seek out financial aid and scholarships as often as you can. UMass Amherst is also a great place to go, and I'm going to a massive state university myself.

I don't have a preference for small liberal arts schools, but they aren't usually known for their research and pre-med programs.

Yeahh, I know what you mean. The sucky thing is that [I think] I already got the majority of my financial stuff back from NU, and I'm getting next to nothing. I hear you make decent money from co-ops, but I don't know how significant that is in the broad scheme of things.

My family doctor told me to go to a small liberal arts school, my teachers tell me go to NU, my guidance counselor "can't advise that I take on the kind of debt that NU will give me." I though getting the acceptances back and choosing was suppose to be the easy part of all this!

However, the professor/surgeon at Emmanuel said 100% of pre-meds with a GPA of over 3.5 and MCAT greater that 28 get into med school. I'm not exactly sure of the weight of both those numbers, but that sounds attainable? Do you think he's just saying that? I mean that sounds like a deal to me (Emmanuel is literally a 1 minute walk to Harvard Med, so I'd certainly have the inspiration )

 

[DLi]

However, the professor/surgeon at Emmanuel said 100% of pre-meds with a GPA of over 3.5 and MCAT greater that 28 get into med school. I'm not exactly sure of the weight of both those numbers, but that sounds attainable? Do you think he's just saying that? I mean that sounds like a deal to me (Emmanuel is literally a 1 minute walk to Harvard Med, so I'd certainly have the inspiration )

I'm not sure about the co-op, but in the "broad scheme of things", you'll be a doctor making AT LEAST 150K as a general practitioner, and if you don't spend extravagantly, your debt isn't all that much compared to how much you make. However, these private universities are extremely expensive for undergrad. I know a number of people who went to Duke, which is very expensive, one is going to med school this fall. She says it's definitely worth the cost and I bet her parents agree.

As for the quoted thing about 3.5 GPA and 28, I'm not too sure. Only 42% of med school applicants get in, the other 58% or so get rejected by every single school they applied to. The average applicant also applies to 13 schools! The average GPA seems to be around 3.6 and the MCAT sounds just about right. Remember that a lot of other factors apply into admissions, not unlike the admissions process we are going through.

I remember a study showing that the people who are accepted into Ivy League schools but chose a cheaper school equal the incomes of those who graduated from Ivy League schools, so it really depends on what you do during your college years, not where you go.

I'm sure none of what I said clarified anything about where you want to go, but best of luck wherever you go.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Being in an honors program will make absolutely no difference whatsoever in your med school admission. Assuming the honors classes are separate from the normal classes, you'll probably be better off taking the easier class with the easier curve. Succumbing to the party animal classes means succumbing to the party animals' scores. Pump those grades up.

the professor/surgeon at Emmanuel said 100% of pre-meds with a GPA of over 3.5 and MCAT greater that 28 get into med school.

You'll hear statistics like this all the time. The best thing you can possibly do is ignore them.

 

[Gallix23]

She says it's definitely worth the cost and I bet her parents agree.

That's exactly what my teacher is telling me, that a better education is greater than huge debt.

It's just scary to think that I'd be close to 200,000 in debt just from undergrad, would that hinder my ability to afford med school, or could I defer everything until I finally get a job, in which case I'd be able to pay it off in a fairly short amount of time?

And Milkman Al, yeah I figured those statistics sounded too good to be true. I guess at this point I'm just hearing what I want to hear

Oh, and that overall statistic of 48% of pre-meds accepted to med school, is that like country wide? Like is every med school just about as hard as the next one to get into (besides like Hopkins and Harvard and those "elite" schools)? Because I'd like to stay close, which means I'll probably be applying (when the time comes) to BU, Tufts, Umass, Uconn, etc. etc. Like are those schools any harder to get into compared to ones further south or west?

 

[Maygyver]

That's what I've heard, but the state school is Umass Amherst which is in the middle of no where. For some reason I didn't get into the honors college within the school either, even though I meet the criteria, so that means I'd be succumb to the hundred-person lecture halls with all the other party animals.

Not everyone that didn't get into honors is a party animal. You didn't, and it doesn't seem like you are. I wouldn't let that stop you from going. There will be party animals at pretty much any school you go to and to be honest, most of them won't be bothering you in lecture. People that go to lecture are generally well behaved. The people that are annoying in lecture are actually the ones that always ask questions in an effort to brown nose.

 

[DLi]

200K in debt? That seems a bit excessive IMO. Unless your parents are millionaires, I can almost assure you college won't cost you nearly as much. I guess you really have to contact the co-op and see if there are any more scholarships or grants before you make the call to go there.

As for when you have to pay it back, I'm not sure. Hopefully they'll give you a timeline of when you finally become a certified physician to start making your payments, but I'm not sure. In your case, if you don't have much money, and you are serious about your finances, I doubt NU would be worth the extra money.

I'm probably as torn about giving this advice as you are about going to the school. All I know is that you better make it to med school if you do go to NU!

 

[Gallix23]

200K in debt? That seems a bit excessive IMO. Unless your parents are millionaires, I can almost assure you college won't cost you nearly as much. I guess you really have to contact the co-op and see if there are any more scholarships or grants before you make the call to go there.

As for when you have to pay it back, I'm not sure. Hopefully they'll give you a timeline of when you finally become a certified physician to start making your payments, but I'm not sure. In your case, if you don't have much money, and you are serious about your finances, I doubt NU would be worth the extra money.

I'm probably as torn about giving this advice as you are about going to the school. All I know is that you better make it to med school if you do go to NU!

Well, you see that's another thing. The Co-op program at NU gaurantees you a job when you graduate. Something like 99% of students have jobs secured before they even graduate. It's pretty much the perfect fall back option in case medical school does fall through (which I'm going to make sure doesn't happen )

Ughh... I love stress!

 

[DLi]

Well, you see that's another thing. The Co-op program at NU gaurantees you a job when you graduate. Something like 99% of students have jobs secured before they even graduate. It's pretty much the perfect fall back option in case medical school does fall through (which I'm going to make sure doesn't happen )

Ughh... I love stress!

Well this brings us back to the original MCAT post. You and I have 3 years to study, better start now.

 

[Gallix23]

Well this brings us back to the original MCAT post. You and I have 3 years to study, better start now.

See, I was thinking that but I was told not to start studying for it now? I'd gladly read any texts that would help me prepare even starting now, but I'm not sure if that would be frowned upon. Are you starting now?

 

[Algophiliac]

See, I was thinking that but I was told not to start studying for it now? I'd gladly read any texts that would help me prepare even starting now, but I'm not sure if that would be frowned upon. Are you starting now?

This forum is almost unanimous in saying no to this question. Take your pre-reqs (biology, chemistry, physics) first, and then study hardcore over a short period of time (4 months or so) nearer to your actual test date. I have heard of people studying for 6 months, but 3 years is just a waste of time. Focus on ECs, so when the time comes, you have the time and energy to study for the MCAT.

Also, I recently saw an article on this forum stating that the MCAT will be changed? Is this likely to happen before any of us high schoolers take it?

 

[MilkmanAl]

Like is every med school just about as hard as the next one to get into (besides like Hopkins and Harvard and those "elite" schools)?

No, there's quite a range of selectivity. You'll find that pretty much every school wants something different out of its applicants, and the only thing you can do is get the best scores and grades possible, do some clinical extracurriculars that interest you, and let the chips fall where they may. There's a book called the MSAR published by the AAMC that will tell you the median scores of accepted applicants, but the subjective aspects they value are anyone's guess. I'd also wager that what a particular school values is at least somewhat plastic and will change based on the applicant pool from year to year.

 

[Gallix23]

This forum is almost unanimous in saying no to this question. Take your pre-reqs (biology, chemistry, physics) first, and then study hardcore over a short period of time (4 months or so) nearer to your actual test date. I have heard of people studying for 6 months, but 3 years is just a waste of time. Focus on ECs, so when the time comes, you have the time and energy to study for the MCAT.

Also, I recently saw an article on this forum stating that the MCAT will be changed? Is this likely to happen before any of us high schoolers take it?

That's sort of strange though. It's kind of like saying you have two weeks to study for a huge test, but instead you should wait until the last two days to cram in all the information. I mean I understand not studying Orgo chem before you actually took the class, but would it really be a bad idea to study those MCAT sections while taking the class/afterwards so that you retain the information and it becomes permenant?

 

[Algophiliac]

That's sort of strange though. It's kind of like saying you have two weeks to study for a huge test, but instead you should wait until the last two days to cram in all the information. I mean I understand not studying Orgo chem before you actually took the class, but would it really be a bad idea to study those MCAT sections while taking the class/afterwards so that you retain the information and it becomes permenant?

Most argue that studying 3 years in advance would just be a waste of time, but I suppose if you have absolutely nothing else to do, there would be no harm in studying early. While taking the class, it is more important to focus on the class itself and get the best possible grade while understanding the information and committing it to long-term memory. Afterwards, between other classes and ECs, there really will not be too much time left over that could not be better spent elsewhere.

Regarding your analogy, there is a huge difference between 2 weeks and 3 years. I have no clue how great your memory is, but I certainly would not be able to retain all four of those classes in my permanent memory--and certainly not for as long as 3 years!

If you really want to do something, and I know the feeling, start reading scientific articles online...like on PubMed. This supposedly will help you become familiar with verbal skills, and in my opinion, is totally a fun activity. Read current events and keep track of everything going on in the world around you. But really, don't stress this early!!!

 

[Gallix23]

Most argue that studying 3 years in advance would just be a waste of time, but I suppose if you have absolutely nothing else to do, there would be no harm in studying early. While taking the class, it is more important to focus on the class itself and get the best possible grade while understanding the information and committing it to long-term memory. Afterwards, between other classes and ECs, there really will not be too much time left over that could not be better spent elsewhere.

Regarding your analogy, there is a huge difference between 2 weeks and 3 years. I have no clue how great your memory is, but I certainly would not be able to retain all four of those classes in my permanent memory--and certainly not for as long as 3 years!

If you really want to do something, and I know the feeling, start reading scientific articles online...like on PubMed. This supposedly will help you become familiar with verbal skills, and in my opinion, is totally a fun activity. Read current events and keep track of everything going on in the world around you. But really, don't stress this early!!!

Yeahh, I see what you mean. I do have a pretty good memory, but yeah I'd rather do better in the class. And that actually sounds like a good idea, I think I might start reading some science articles and things.

I've never heard of PubMed though, so thanks for that!

 

[RySerr21]

That's sort of strange though. It's kind of like saying you have two weeks to study for a huge test, but instead you should wait until the last two days to cram in all the information. I mean I understand not studying Orgo chem before you actually took the class, but would it really be a bad idea to study those MCAT sections while taking the class/afterwards so that you retain the information and it becomes permenant?

you arent going to retain it, and its not goign to be permanent. You will forget it eventually. A few months to study for the MCAT is more than enough. The material you will review will come back quickly.

 

[Gallix23]

I just have one more question:

If I do go to NU, I'm going to go to Umass Boston for one semester (because I got accepted into NU for the spring semester). I heard that to transfer credits, you need at least a C, but those grades don't count towards your GPA once you get to the school you're transferring too (in my case NU). Is this true?

 

[RySerr21]

I just have one more question:

If I do go to NU, I'm going to go to Umass Boston for one semester (because I got accepted into NU for the spring semester). I heard that to transfer credits, you need at least a C, but those grades don't count towards your GPA once you get to the school you're transferring too (in my case NU). Is this true?

I dont konw if all schools do it differently, but I know for my school, if you transferred credits from another institution it WAS NOT included in your schools GPA. That doesn't mean that you won't get a grade for it or that it wont or that it wont be counted in GPA when applying to med school. You'll have a separate GPA for NU and a separate GPA for Umass. When you apply to med school, you will send transcripts from BOTH schools and they will calculate ALL courses into your GPA. So dont think that your one semester at NU will go unnoticed.

 

[DLi]

For the most part RySerr is correct. UMass won't count towards your NU GPA, but the grades still mean something and you should definitely do well because you will use it for med school applications.