Mbbs = us md?

[schrizto]

Let's say somebody trained in a country where they award MBBS degrees and then they come to the US. Can they "say" they are an MD, because MBBS is considered its equivalent? I don't think I've seen a doctor practicing with an MBBS in the US and there has to be some of them.

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[Winged Scapula]

Let's say somebody trained in a country where they award MBBS degrees and then they come to the US. Can they "say" they are an MD, because MBBS is considered its equivalent? I don't think I've seen a doctor practicing with an MBBS in the US and there has to be some of them.

There are plenty of us.

Most of us use MD as the MBBS is generally not recognized by patients and there are no regulations against this.

 

[dggopal]

you say you practice as an MBBS but just refer to yourself as an MD... just to clarify... don't you have to do a residency after coming back from india( with an MBBS degree) and thus gain the MD there... as in a residency in general Medicine... or whatever specialty.

In India you can practice right off the bat with an MBBS degree... I don't think thats the case in America... or is it?

 

[Winged Scapula]

you say you practice as an MBBS but just refer to yourself as an MD... just to clarify... don't you have to do a residency after coming back from india( with an MBBS degree) and thus gain the MD there... as in a residency in general Medicine... or whatever specialty.

In India you can practice right off the bat with an MBBS degree... I don't think thats the case in America... or is it?

An MD is the terminal degree in the US; in countries where the MBBS is the medical degree, you can obtain an additional MD after doing some research and work.

In the US you have to do some post-graduate training to be licensed; the amount varies depending on the state. You cannot practice right out of medical school.

So if you obtained an MBBS in India and wanted to work in the US, you would do a residency and could use the designation MD, but technically you do not have an MD.

 

[dggopal]

ohhhhh... yeah thats what I thought

 

[hmm...]

My cousin is on the MBBS degree system, while I am on the MD system. I think of an MBBS (5-6yrs) degree like a BS/MD degree (6-7yrs) here in the US. In HS, they are already learning ochem at college level, and do not have to take absolutely useless humanities courses to become well rounded saving them a year.

edit: However, a real MD degree on the British system requires you do min 2 years research after you already a "doctor." The term doctor is used out of courtesy and respect.

 

[bsvelan]

I have a question...I did my MBBS in India and I am currently doing my PhD in the US. Can I use the title Dr.?

 

[hmm...]

I have a question...I did my MBBS in India and I am currently doing my PhD in the US. Can I use the title Dr.?

maybe to your students, but not to patients who might confuse you for a licensed US doc.

 

[bsvelan]

Thank you. And in any case I deal with patients no more. Can I call myself an MD as and when I complete my USMLE steps 1,2 and CS and am I right in assuming that I need not do any residency to call myself so? I am asking that 'coz I think an MD, PhD gives me more credibility than an MBBS.

 

[schrizto]

Thank you. And in any case I deal with patients no more. Can I call myself an MD as and when I complete my USMLE steps 1,2 and CS and am I right in assuming that I need not do any residency to call myself so? I am asking that 'coz I think an MD, PhD gives me more credibility than an MBBS.

I think anyone who has completed medical school can call themselves Dr., but someone can't practice medicine if they didn't complete their residency here. I have heard of people who have gotten an MD or MD/PhD and went on to a postdoc or consulting firm instead of a residency, but they are still addressed as Dr.

 

[tkim]

I have a question...I did my MBBS in India and I am currently doing my PhD in the US. Can I use the title Dr.?

If you have already been awarded the MBBS degree, then you have every right to be addressed as 'Doctor'. Licensure is not a requirement to be addressed at the level of doctorate already awarded by your medical school.

 

[tkim]

Thank you. And in any case I deal with patients no more. Can I call myself an MD as and when I complete my USMLE steps 1,2 and CS and am I right in assuming that I need not do any residency to call myself so? I am asking that 'coz I think an MD, PhD gives me more credibility than an MBBS.

This depends on the state you live in. In NY if you are licensed to practice medicine, you can pay a fee and have the SUNY Board of Regents award you a MD degree if you have a foreign degree. People with the MBBS and license have no problem practicing medicine otherwise and do it for the MD name-brand recognition.

http://www.op.nysed.gov/med-mdconferral.htm

 

[bsvelan]

Thanks a lot to everyone. I ll probably write the MLE in a few years.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Thanks a lot to everyone. I ll probably write the MLE in a few years.

There is absolutely no point to writing the USMLE if you do not plan to do a residency. It's not going to help you get grants.

Agreed that you can call yourself Dr. now if you want.

Also, once you complete your PhD, you are welcome to call yourself Dr. regardless of your prior degrees.

I would not call yourself MD unless you truly have an MD. Some states have statutes that allow you to do so, but esp in a grant application I would not bend the truth. I do not think that NY gives MD's to MBBS's anymore, but I could be wrong about that.

 

[tkim]

I do not think that NY gives MD's to MBBS's anymore, but I could be wrong about that.

They do. For a fee.

 

[bsvelan]

And I forgot to say I am a legal alien.
@aProgDirector
Then does it mean I can't say I am an MD PhD in my grant application even after getting my license?
And does being an MBBS PhD help your resume rather than just a PhD? I have this doubt because I find a lot of people here quiet unfamiliar with what an MBBS is.
And there is no way I can call myself an MD anywhere in the US apart from NY after paying the fees. Is that right?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

And I forgot to say I am a legal alien.
@aProgDirector
Then does it mean I can't say I am an MD PhD in my grant application even after getting my license?
And does being an MBBS PhD help your resume rather than just a PhD? I have this doubt because I find a lot of people here quiet unfamiliar with what an MBBS is.
And there is no way I can call myself an MD anywhere in the US apart from NY after paying the fees. Is that right?

First, passing the USMLE does not equal a license. You'll need some residency training to qualify for a license. Second, even if you get a license, that does not make you an MD. I am not an expert in this by any means, but I would worry that calling yourself an MD when you don't really have one could be seen as fraud. Agree with above that the people reading the grant likely know what an MBBS is.

No idea if MBBS/PhD is better than PhD. Since you already have the MBBS, it's a bit of a moot point.

Some states specifically have laws allowing you to call yourself MD if you have an MBBS. Even so, I wouldn't count on that if you apply for a grant (which could be based in another state, or be federal). If you have a real document from a board of medicine granting you some sort of honorary MD for your MBBS, then you're good to go. I cannot find a link to the NY program -- if anyone has it, please post it.

 

[tkim]

First, passing the USMLE does not equal a license. You'll need some residency training to qualify for a license. Second, even if you get a license, that does not make you an MD. I am not an expert in this by any means, but I would worry that calling yourself an MD when you don't really have one could be seen as fraud. Agree with above that the people reading the grant likely know what an MBBS is.

No idea if MBBS/PhD is better than PhD. Since you already have the MBBS, it's a bit of a moot point.

Some states specifically have laws allowing you to call yourself MD if you have an MBBS. Even so, I wouldn't count on that if you apply for a grant (which could be based in another state, or be federal). If you have a real document from a board of medicine granting you some sort of honorary MD for your MBBS, then you're good to go. I cannot find a link to the NY program -- if anyone has it, please post it.

couple posts up. you need a NY license though, which requires passing the steps plus intern year.

 

[miscalculated]

Interesting point about the MBBS/MD designation. I wondered also if I can call myself an MD in the States. Anyone know how much is it to confer the MD title if you have an MBBS?

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

So if you obtained an MBBS in India and wanted to work in the US, you would do a residency and could use the designation MD, but technically you do not have an MD.

They are both equivalent medical degrees. In order to apply for a UK (or Commonwealth) MD degree (research) you would need to have either: an MBBS or US-MD degree and usually a minimum of 5 years post graduate experience.

So you could for example see either:

John Smith, BA, MD (Harvard), MD (Oxford)

or

John Smith, BA, MBBS (London), MD (Oxford)

same-same

 

[Winged Scapula]

They are both equivalent medical degrees. In order to apply for a UK (or Commonwealth) MD degree (research) you would need to have either: an MBBS or US-MD degree and usually a minimum of 5 years post graduate experience.

So you could for example see either:

John Smith, BA, MD (Harvard), MD (Oxford)

or

John Smith, BA, MBBS (London), MD (Oxford)

same-same

As a holder of the MBBS, I am aware of the difference.

The point I was making is that regardless of whether or not they are equivalent in the US, technically someone with an MBBS does not have an MD. So while they can use the MD designation, when asked by licensing bodies, etc. about your specific degree, they need to specify MBBS. Hence, this is why my correspondence from the licensing bureaus and the American Board of Surgery, say Winged Scapula, MBBS and not Winged Scapula, MD.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

I've never seen this combination of degrees with both a US medical degree and then a UK MD. Would this be considered similar to the degree combination MD, PhD? I looked up the UK MD degree and it can be awarded with a submission of new research or a portfolio of previous work.

Yeah.. it would be "similar" to a PhD.. in the fact that the UK MD is granted based on original research and academic contributions to your field. Many people actually receive the UK MD degree after obtaining a PhD even.

There is a similar degree for dentists in the UK (the DDSc) Doctor of Dental Sciences which is granted (often after a PhD) for original research.

 

[schrizto]

Yeah.. it would be "similar" to a PhD.. in the fact that the UK MD is granted based on original research and academic contributions to your field. Many people actually receive the UK MD degree after obtaining a PhD even.

There is a similar degree for dentists in the UK (the DDSc) Doctor of Dental Sciences which is granted (often after a PhD) for original research.

darn that's overkill... MD, MD, PhD.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

darn that's overkill... MD, MD, PhD.

.. some do it.

 

[usmd]

This thread has been very interesting for me. While training in the US, I had colleagues who were MBBS and were always addressed as Dr. There was no distinction. It was well-understood. I don't believe any patients were ever confused. There were some who had their degrees changed to MD so they would not have to explain the MBBS, while others kept their MBBS.

Now, being in England, I have the opposite problem. Some people can't understand the MD degree. Apparently, it's something much different - sort of like a PhD in Medicine, rather than a licensed doctor. Imagine me being told by the coroner's office that they've never had an MD sign a death certificate. They almost didn't allow me to do so.

 

[schrizto]

This thread has been very interesting for me. While training in the US, I had colleagues who were MBBS and were always addressed as Dr. There was no distinction. It was well-understood. I don't believe any patients were ever confused. There were some who had their degrees changed to MD so they would not have to explain the MBBS, while others kept their MBBS.

Now, being in England, I have the opposite problem. Some people can't understand the MD degree. Apparently, it's something much different - sort of like a PhD in Medicine, rather than a licensed doctor. Imagine me being told by the coroner's office that they've never had an MD sign a death certificate. They almost didn't allow me to do so.

In the UK, do people who get an MD there have to get an MBBS before they get the MD degree?

 

[Shoushu]

In the UK, do people who get an MD there have to get an MBBS before they get the MD degree?

Could be. I'm 22-yo premed senior. I can't get in U.S. med school w/ current stats, unless I spend a couple of years to beef up my app. I'm considering Carribean or other foreign schools. In U.S., is Carribean considered > other foreign-trained med students?

I'm Chinese, but Naturalized U.S. Citizen. I did hospital volunteering in China and know that after 5 years of Medical University, Chinese med students receive MBBS. After another couple of years, they can earn Master of Medicine, and after 2-3 more years, a PhD of Medicine.

I want to know the equivalence of MBBS and MD too. Are ppl with MBBS allowed to put M.D. after their names?

 

[jtlc2345]

In the UK, do people who get an MD there have to get an MBBS before they get the MD degree?

In essence yes - as already mentioned above, in the UK, an MD degree is a research degree only open to those with a primary medical degree (e.g. MBBS). It is similar to a PhD with the exception (as far as I am aware) that a MD requires a minimum of two years full time research whereas a PhD requires three years (and also a PhD is open to non-medical graduates).

Jonathan

 

[Raigon]

Could be. I'm 22-yo premed senior. I can't get in U.S. med school w/ current stats, unless I spend a couple of years to beef up my app. I'm considering Carribean or other foreign schools. In U.S., is Carribean considered > other foreign-trained med students?

WRONG.

Caribbean is NOT better regarded by residency programs and their director. In fact, most even look down upon them more so than international students from first class medical schools in first world countries like England, Ireland, Australia, and competitive medical schools in Asia like Japan or Taiwan or even China for heck's sake.

The only reason Caribbean students may have a small edge over international students is that they do their clinical rotations in the United States and can obtain letters of recommendation from US hospitals (which is like a 40% bonus to your application). And their courses are USMLE oriented. But other than that, they don't hold much advantage. In fact, many medical schools across the world, including the one I'm applying to: Flinders University and University of Sydney, give you a few months of electives to choose in America. And they train you better because they are good medical schools that have good faculty and good facilities and clinical schools. Carribean medical schools are basically cram courses. I'm not even sure they qualify as medical schools (although they are approved by most US states) because they don't even provide clinical rotations in their own hospitals because they don't have the facilities. They send you to America for that. Unlike Caribbean schools, good medical schools in other countries have better planned clinical training and such. That's why I'm choosing Australia over Caribbean.

If your school doesn't allow overseas electives, sucks for you, but that doesn't mean you don't get a chance. If your score is high enough (USMLE step 1 scores), then you have a great chance, especially if you beat 90% of the test-takers. In any case, you can also sign up for electives during your winter and summer vacations.

I want to know the equivalence of MBBS and MD too. Are ppl with MBBS allowed to put M.D. after their names?

Yes, people in America from Australia or England do it all the time. Look at Winged_Scapula. She graduated from Flinders, Australia, but puts an MD on her nametag. They are the same thing. MD=MBBS in America, and MBBS=MD. Note that in England, Ireland, and Australia (etc) they are NOT the same thing.

 

[tkim]

Yes, people in America from Australia or England do it all the time. Look at Winged_Scapula. She graduated from Flinders, Australia, but puts an MD on her nametag. They are the same thing. MD=MBBS in America, and MBBS=MD. Note that in England, Ireland, and Australia (etc) they are NOT the same thing.

As a holder of the MBBS, I am aware of the difference.

The point I was making is that regardless of whether or not they are equivalent in the US, technically someone with an MBBS does not have an MD. So while they can use the MD designation, when asked by licensing bodies, etc. about your specific degree, they need to specify MBBS. Hence, this is why my correspondence from the licensing bureaus and the American Board of Surgery, say Winged Scapula, MBBS and not Winged Scapula, MD.

post #23, this thread.

 

[Raigon]

post #23, this thread.

Yeah, I know, it's formally MBBS, but during clinical hours at her hospital, she still tells people she's xxx MD. Here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=689273

Post #28.

 

[tkim]

Yeah, I know, it's formally MBBS, but during clinical hours at her hospital, she still tells people she's xxx MD. Here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=689273

Post #28.

Ah. Rodger dodger.