Matching after OMFS Internship

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OMFSPrime

OMFSPrime

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Can one safely say that after completing an OMFS internship at one of the top programs in the North East, that one's chances of subsequently matching the following year are significantly higher? I will work my tail end off to prove myself, as I know I will be constantly evaluated during the internship.

Just wondering.

One would have the best chances at the same program that one was doing an internship at, at least that is my logic.

Me no know. Any opinions? Thanks in advance to Gary "know everything, always wants to help" Ruska, OMFSOrif, and the rest of the oral & maxillofacial (For DreDay) gang. I frequently visit the forum and read, just thought I would chime in.

Thanks,
OMFSPrime
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Internship will help if you have decent grades and boards. Without those you will learn a lot, but chances are still slim.
 
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Unless you go to USC and do internship there for two years in a row and they feel sorry for you so you get their 4 yr spot. i think anything's possible.
 
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setdoc7 said:
Internship will help if you have decent grades and boards. Without those you will learn a lot, but chances are still slim.
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Interesting. You'd rather have someone unproven in your program with high boards vs a proven intern with lower scores? With all the cheating I hear about regarding boards, this is saddening. But of course these minimums are a reality and standards must be met.
 
rlee99p said:
Unless you go to USC and do internship there for two years in a row and they feel sorry for you so you get their 4 yr spot. i think anything's possible.
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You better be talking about yourself. Otherwise that's cold, haha. Glad he matched though. Met him/you at USC.
 
So, DrDM, what kind of cheating on the boards are you talking about? I have never heard of anyone cheating on the boards...
 
Our program has a minimum pt 1 score set by the med school ad com. Besides, not everyone cheats on the boards, and I am sure the vast majority do not. Further, since only a small fraction of the entire group score over 92, who are they cheating from? You have to know something to score in the top 5%, and bd scores must match up with GPA, or no chance here either.

I have seen two interns over the last 7 years get in to 4 year OMFS programs with low scores. Both were literally in the right place at the right time. Otherwise it never would have happened. Luck plays a part in this as well
 
Kong57 said:
So, DrDM, what kind of cheating on the boards are you talking about? I have never heard of anyone cheating on the boards...
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Stories of remembered questions. When the difference in a 90 and 89 is just a few questions, don't you think these banks are a big deal? I sure do. It's always a 'i know someone who had 50% of the test questions beforehand'. Maybe they are exagerating or telling a story but I think it's a legitamite problem and given the stakes, this is a big deal. But like I said, it's all rumors. I've never had anyone tell me 'i cheated'. There is an ADA document that shows scores went up on a test the longer the test bank was in action. How is that possible? I say remembered questions!! Hopefully I'm wrong. I'm on an iPhone so I can't easily search for that PDF but can grab it later.
 
Interesting remarks by all.

My story is a little different. I scored really well on Part I, have a strong gpa at a top school, and have done considerable research (for a student) with publications.

I just did not know what specialty to go after or even if I wanted to specialize.

I have always had a fascination with Oral Surgery, I find myself naturally gravitating, volunteering, going out of my way to be a part of complex procedures, assisting, and being allowed to do a few minor "resident" procedures at my school...all of it subconsciously, unaware that I was actively pursuing an interest in oral surgery.

I figure, I'll kick my own @$$ working hard during the internship with the goal of learning as much as possible, my work ethic and quality will prove itself, the rest is up to a higher power...be it administration, chairs of departments, or God (all synonyms at this point in my lowly position on the ladder).

OMFSPrime

P.S. I'm really happy this internship option even exists, it will be a great way for me to open my eyes and be a part of a team that is at the forefront of dentistry and medicine.
 
With an internship, what would "decent" board scores and class rank to be accepted to one of the so called "mid to lower tier" schools be?
 
OMFSPrime said:
My story is a little different. I scored really well on Part I, have a strong gpa at a top school, and have done considerable research (for a student) with publications.
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Just be careful, because it seems like there are some programs out there that treat people who've done intern years as 'damaged goods'. I meta few people on the trail who had good numbers and didn't match for whatever reason, did an intern year and got less interviews than they did right out of school, despite being ostensibly better qualified.
 
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armorshell said:
Just be careful, because it seems like there are some programs out there that treat people who've done intern years as 'damaged goods'. I meta few people on the trail who had good numbers and didn't match for whatever reason, did an intern year and got less interviews than they did right out of school, despite being ostensibly better qualified.
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You should know that good numbers doesn't mean everything. I remember almost everyone who interviewed at my program this year, all with outstanding numbers and commendable achievements, but a few were off in the personality department. There is a reason "top" numbers don't match.
 
Shabu2,
I will agree with what you said about personality. The reason most interviews take place in front of a panel is, it is very hard to hide your personality when being bombarded by multiple interviewers. Your true self always comes out. Numbers are there to equivocate everyone, what sells them on you is...quite frankly...your personality...they do not want to get stuck with someone they don't like personality wise for 4-6years.

I feel that interviews are always a mixed bag of getting to know you and trying to put pressure on you with an off the cuff question or statement, just to see how you handle dynamics.

Shabu2, where are you staying in regards to your program at Columbia?

NYC is so expensive!

Armorshell, I am one of the few who understand your avatar, that's some funny stuff.

OMFSPrime
 
Def:

Intern (IN - turn): One who will almost certainly still fail to match without at least a 90 on NBDE Part I.

Sad but true - it's mostly all a numbers game. There were 7 people in my graduating class and one of the GPR's who all applied for OMFS at the same time. One guy dropped out after 2 externships. One gal got 11 interviews, went to 7, and then decided to withdrawl from MATCH. The top dawg in our class matched to his 1st choice-- and totally deserved it -Awesome guy all around!

So, the GPR, 3 of my classmates and I all did grueling 1yr internships at excellent programs. Well, only one person out of five matched the next year, and he had a 91 on boards. However, he did NOT match at his intern program which was his top choice.

The rest of us got passed over despite slugging away with brutal work hours and some insane call schedules. I was at a Q-2 call program - YEP primary trauma call every other night for a stinkin year!! And when the R1 was off service, I'd get like 20 days/nights in a month!!. But thats not the worst of it... The GPR went to an Ultra Ultra Busy program where his senior residents loved him becasue he ended up taking Q-1 call for a huge stretch after 2 of his co-interns quit. Yet, his home program wouldnt even interview him b/c he didn't hit the magic "90." Fortunately for GPR guy, he got into another program on a late (like end of May kinda thing) post-match when a spot opened up (right place, right time kinda deal)... but again - the point is that he still didn't match after almost working himself to death as an intern.

So, a long answer to your question with a short summary... if you don't have a 90 on boards, re-take the darn thing and get there. With a 90 and an internship, you should be in good shape.

Good luck. I'm sure you will learn a ton as an intern, its a great experience regardless of whether you end up matching next year.:)
 
FullBonyTony said:
Def:

Intern (IN - turn): One who will almost certainly still fail to match without at least a 90 on NBDE Part I.

Sad but true - it's mostly all a numbers game. There were 7 people in my graduating class and one of the GPR's who all applied for OMFS at the same time. One guy dropped out after 2 externships. One gal got 11 interviews, went to 7, and then decided to withdrawl from MATCH. The top dawg in our class matched to his 1st choice-- and totally deserved it -Awesome guy all around!

So, the GPR, 3 of my classmates and I all did grueling 1yr internships at excellent programs. Well, only one person out of five matched the next year, and he had a 91 on boards. However, he did NOT match at his intern program which was his top choice.

The rest of us got passed over despite slugging away with brutal work hours and some insane call schedules. I was at a Q-2 call program - YEP primary trauma call every other night for a stinkin year!! And when the R1 was off service, I'd get like 20 days/nights in a month!!. But thats not the worst of it... The GPR went to an Ultra Ultra Busy program where his senior residents loved him becasue he ended up taking Q-1 call for a huge stretch after 2 of his co-interns quit. Yet, his home program wouldnt even interview him b/c he didn't hit the magic "90." Fortunately for GPR guy, he got into another program on a late (like end of May kinda thing) post-match when a spot opened up (right place, right time kinda deal)... but again - the point is that he still didn't match after almost working himself to death as an intern.

So, a long answer to your question with a short summary... if you don't have a 90 on boards, re-take the darn thing and get there. With a 90 and an internship, you should be in good shape.

Good luck. I'm sure you will learn a ton as an intern, its a great experience regardless of whether you end up matching next year.:)
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With what type of class rank are we talking in both situations?
 
Seriously? Aw crud!!! I wasn't aware of the no-retake rule... ouch! I re-took boards as an intern and improved, but didnt hit the magic number... so no soup for me!! I was actually digging up my dental decks and "First Aid" books to launch an assault for round three, but I guess that's a moot point, eh? Why did they do that??
 
FullBonyTony said:
Seriously? Aw crud!!! I wasn't aware of the no-retake rule... ouch! I re-took boards as an intern and improved, but didnt hit the magic number... so no soup for me!! I was actually digging up my dental decks and "First Aid" books to launch an assault for round three, but I guess that's a moot point, eh? Why did they do that??
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They did it because the JCNDE abhors the use of their boards for admissions purposes, which they believe it is not valid for. The 'no-retake' policy is their lead in to making the test Pass/Fail which I believe happens in 2012.
 
armorshell said:
They did it because the JCNDE abhors the use of their boards for admissions purposes, which they believe it is not valid for. The 'no-retake' policy is their lead in to making the test Pass/Fail which I believe happens in 2012.
Click to expand...

And according to setdoc's med school policy and others around the country, a great applicant could be banished from every 6 year in the country just from a bad test day. Maybe not even a bad day, just not a 100% on top of the game day. I understand it's a numbers game, I played it, got lucky, and matched well. But I do hope this is being addressed for fairness.

I also don't get why an intern is damaged goods. Is it truely the 'they have a different way of training now and I don't want to retrain them'? Or perhaps just the stigma of 'why didn't they match the first time?'

completing an intern year has got to be one of the greatest sacrifices an OMS applicant can do. Good rank....just stay focused for couple years, not that tough. Good boards....couple months and a great test day. Externahips....not that hard to get and a blast. Those all have guarantees of being a dds/dmd at the end of it. But an intern year.....q1,2,3 call, likely a feeling of being 2nd rate to the other interns, ..... all with no guarantee. I could only wish my co resident next year had that level of experience and commitment from day 1. It would instantly make my lack of experience less of an annoyance to the department.
 
Well said DrDM. I think an internship year before matching would produce a more confident, capable, and reliable candidate, as it shows that he/she knows what they are getting in to, the level of commitment it takes, and their work ethic.

In my mind, I already matched...just have to get the details out of the way.
 
shabu2 said:
You should know that good numbers doesn't mean everything. I remember almost everyone who interviewed at my program this year, all with outstanding numbers and commendable achievements, but a few were off in the personality department. There is a reason "top" numbers don't match.
Click to expand...

When you're talking about personality do u mean that they're making sure the applicant doesn't have negative traits like arrogance, cockyness?

Or you have to be an extroverted, charming, charismatic person to really impress the interviewers?

Can introverted people succeed in OMFS?
 
DrDM said:
And according to setdoc's med school policy and others around the country, a great applicant could be banished from every 6 year in the country just from a bad test day. Maybe not even a bad day, just not a 100% on top of the game day. I understand it's a numbers game, I played it, got lucky, and matched well. But I do hope this is being addressed for fairness.
Click to expand...

Fairness? Med schools have already been doing this for years with Step I. You can't take that test over to improve your score. You get what you get. That means putting in the time and working hard to get the score you want. It also means that some will slip through the cracks because they just don't test well on standardized exams. Well, guess what, if you knew you had to take the MOST important test in your career, you are gonna bust some tail. IMHO, this should have been done years ago; follow the USMLE testing format that is.

OMFSprime: I went to Columbia for d-school, Emory for OMFS.
 
wjdghks said:
When you're talking about personality do u mean that they're making sure the applicant doesn't have negative traits like arrogance, cockyness?

Or you have to be an extroverted, charming, charismatic person to really impress the interviewers?

Can introverted people succeed in OMFS?
Click to expand...

Its the whole package my friend. Humility with confidence, humor with sarcasm, teamwork with initiative, etc. Get it?
 
shabu2 said:
Fairness? Med schools have already been doing this for years with Step I. You can't take that test over to improve your score. You get what you get. That means putting in the time and working hard to get the score you want. It also means that some will slip through the cracks because they just don't test well on standardized exams. Well, guess what, if you knew you had to take the MOST important test in your career, you are gonna bust some tail. IMHO, this should have been done years ago; follow the USMLE testing format that is.

OMFSprime: I went to Columbia for d-school, Emory for OMFS.
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I get that and are excellent points. The NBDE part 1 has been stated by the ADA as not being consistent enough for the purposes of being a standardized test for admissions into post grad. And thus the P/F goal. If they can't guarantee that standardized score, then there is an element of unfairness. Maybe Step 1 has or doesn't have this issue, I have NO idea.

I don't have any issue with the one attempt, if there was consistency in scores. At a school like columbia, I'm sure any deviation for NBDE year over year is painfully obvious with so many top students. At least at my school, the past few years have been wildly different average NBDE and top quartile, top 5 scores. I don't believe the graduation classes are any different when you're talking so many students. Thus, on the surface, it appears to be inconsistent scoring.
 
Shabu: I assume Emory has filled its intern spots for 2010-11...??
 
Shabu: any official word on the extra intern spot? Do you know if Dr. Steed got my CV and such? Thanx again... =)
 
DrReo said:
With an internship, what would "decent" board scores and class rank to be accepted to one of the so called "mid to lower tier" schools be?
Click to expand...

Any info on this? I saw from the OMFS match 2010 thread that many people with 87's matching into 4 year programs. Some were straight from school and others did an intern year. I have my eye set on OMFS, but first I need to get into dental school :D
 
FullBonyTony said:
Shabu: any official word on the extra intern spot? Do you know if Dr. Steed got my CV and such? Thanx again... =)
Click to expand...

Try emailing Dr Steed. He is very good about responding back. PM me with results.
 
hey shabu,

where are all the omfs guys who were on here several years ago? ive read through some of the old posts and you guys were really going at it with each other and periodontists. i was laughing so hard at some of those threads and wish you guys were still here.

have you all moved on to bigger better things?
 
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CALgoob said:
hey shabu,

where are all the omfs guys who were on here several years ago? ive read through some of the old posts and you guys were really going at it with each other and periodontists. i was laughing so hard at some of those threads and wish you guys were still here.

have you all moved on to bigger better things?
Click to expand...

Which threads? Care to share the link?
 
just search for any of these member names:

esclavo, toofache32, icedomfs, doggie, north2southomfs

if i remember correctly, shabu was also a part of some of the threads too but the 5 guys above were seriously hilarious. if you arent hurt-your-stomach-laughing after reading some of the threads, you must be related to a periodontist...
 
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