Matched in Dermatology! Happy to Share My Thoughts on the Experience with Anyone Who is Interested.

[masaraksh]

This is a fun thread! Thanks for your openness.

Just want to jump in to dispel a myth: "No call, no weekends, no emergencies." This is not true. I thought it was, too - and I'm a derm resident on call right now so I can definitely say...don't go into derm thinking you'll be eating bonbons from Friday 4pm to Monday 9am. Even derm has life-threatening emergencies.

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[Wolfpack2014]

I've been accepted to a top 10 school in the midwest and a state school in California..

'I've been accepted to WUSTL.' Not exactly a wide range of top 10s in the midwest to choose from.

 

[samsunimomo]

'I've been accepted to WUSTL.' Not exactly a wide range of top 10s in the midwest to choose from.

University of Michigan? And University of Chicago in some years?

 

[kb0275]

Resources for step 1?

 

[Foot Fetish]

Resources for step 1?

He mentioned that he used UWorld and First Aid. Big surprise.

To OP, I know you said you dont want to talk about Step 1, but I was just wondering when you started studying?

 

[Astra]

I graduated from a top 20 medical school, P/F pre-clinical, Half Honors/Half High Pass clinical grades, Step 1: 264, Step 2 CK: 256, not AOA.

I took a research year and got a Masters Degree in Translational Research. Over that year I presented 3 posters, gave 2 oral presentations, published 2 case reports, published 1 review paper in basic science, and had a first author basic science paper in a medium impact journal.

I matched at my number 3 spot

How much did not being AOA impact your match prospects?

Also, you have great step scores so why were you not AOA?

 

[medschoolappl]

How much did not being AOA impact your match prospects?

Also, you have great step scores so why were you not AOA?

About 20% of accepted derm applicants are AOA. It is closer to 50% for the top programs in more desirable geographical locations. It is one important factor among many especially if you are applying with a bunch of other people from your school. You can bet each individual program will not be interviewing more than 1 or 2 of you and there will be a strong preference for the candidate with AOA status. It's a signaling mechanism.

My school assigns AOA to the top 20% of the class based on 70% clinical grades, 30% pre-clinical exam scores in each module and corrects for community service, leadership roles etc. I did not meet this criteria based on my clinical grades being half honors/half high pass.

 

[Psai]

This is a fun thread! Thanks for your openness.

Just want to jump in to dispel a myth: "No call, no weekends, no emergencies." This is not true. I thought it was, too - and I'm a derm resident on call right now so I can definitely say...don't go into derm thinking you'll be eating bonbons from Friday 4pm to Monday 9am. Even derm has life-threatening emergencies.

How often do you get called in?

 

[ERDOC555]

About 20% of accepted derm applicants are AOA. It is closer to 50% for the top programs in more desirable geographical locations.

Actually, 53% of all accepted MD senior derm applicants are AOA, at least in 2016. The match rate for seniors with AOA and seniors without is pretty stark. They break it down in the 2016 charting outcomes.

 

[sholamd]

How often do you get called in?

It varies. My residency has us take call a week at a time. I had one amazing week where I didn't get called in at all (I got calls at night, but all things I could handle from home). I had one hell week where I got called in every night and had to round on several patients while taking new consults over the weekend. I'd say average is to get called in once during the week, and expect to have to round one or both days on the weekend.

 

[Psai]

It varies. My residency has us take call a week at a time. I had one amazing week where I didn't get called in at all (I got calls at night, but all things I could handle from home). I had one hell week where I got called in every night and had to round on several patients while taking new consults over the weekend. I'd say average is to get called in once during the week, and expect to have to round one or both days on the weekend.

Huh I've consulted derm exactly once this year, for suspected dress

 

[pbrocks15]

About 20% of accepted derm applicants are AOA. It is closer to 50% for the top programs in more desirable geographical locations. It is one important factor among many especially if you are applying with a bunch of other people from your school. You can bet each individual program will not be interviewing more than 1 or 2 of you and there will be a strong preference for the candidate with AOA status. It's a signaling mechanism.

My school assigns AOA to the top 20% of the class based on 70% clinical grades, 30% pre-clinical exam scores in each module and corrects for community service, leadership roles etc. I did not meet this criteria based on my clinical grades being half honors/half high pass.

Half honors and half high pass? Are those who received getting practically honors across the boards for third year? I imagined half honors/half high pass would be a great result for third year.

 

[ActinicKeratosis]

How many away rotations did you do? With a 250+ Step 1 do you recommend taking Step 2 before application time? How many programs cared versus not cared about having a Step 2 score? Did you complete your medicine Sub I before applying or did you post-pone it until later in the year? Thanks!

 

[username456789]

Half honors and half high pass? Are those who received getting practically honors across the boards for third year? I imagined half honors/half high pass would be a great result for third year.

There are quite a few schools (seems like the majority from reading anecdotes on here) that seem to hand "Honors" out like candy.

 

[medschoolappl]

Half honors and half high pass? Are those who received getting practically honors across the boards for third year? I imagined half honors/half high pass would be a great result for third year.

Everything in derm is skewed to the right. I am a super star candidate for internal medicine, I would have easily gotten interviews at the Brigham or UCSF but I chose a highly competitive speciality. We have 7 core clerkships; based on some not statistically significant polling people who get AOA at my school have 6 or 7 honors or have 5 but were like school president or equivalent. Something that really set them apart in preclinical.

 

[username456789]

Huh I've consulted derm exactly once this year, for suspected dress

The environment for consulting Derm varies from institution to institution. It also depends on how well the Derm department ingratiates itself to the other services.

I used to get plenty of legit consults in a given week (DRESS, GVHD, SJS/TEN, autoimmune blistering disease, newborn with ichthyosis/blistering disease, etc) but it was always bolstered by tons of absolutely terrible consults (suspicious mole on any patient admitted, "bilateral lower extremity cellulitis" [which essentially doesn't exist], onychomycosis, etc).

 

[medschoolappl]

There are quite a few schools (seems like the majority from reading anecdotes on here) that seem to hand "Honors" out like candy.

This is the reason top 20 schools are so over represented in derm. An honors at Weil or Penn means more than an honors at a third tier medical school. Again, people from non top 20 med schools match all the time but they usually do like 3 aways, summer research, research year/fellowship in a department with a link program or something.

 

[medschoolappl]

How many away rotations did you do? With a 250+ Step 1 do you recommend taking Step 2 before application time? How many programs cared versus not cared about having a Step 2 score? Did you complete your medicine Sub I before applying or did you post-pone it until later in the year? Thanks!

I did two aways: one was an excellent learning experience with exposure to derm surg, a high quality didactic program taught by faculty, and a lot of exposure to consultation derm with a really busy consult service. I saw SJS, really severe pemphigus, DRESS, etc. They did not give me an interview which was frustrating but expected given that I live on the east coast and program was on the west. Would do it again because it was a legitmately worthwhile learning experience. The other was a bull**** community program in my home state that I rotated through as a safety. It was mostly "faculty practice" read private practice with resident support. Unbelievably boring as a student, very little autonomy, totally bread and butter, a total waste of time.

With respect to aways generally, my mentor once gave me an insight that I found useful. He said that when he looks at away candidates, about 10-15% he loves and will actively try to recruit them to the institution, 10-15% he hates and will advocate against (they act bored, unhelpful, bad cultural fit, etc), 70-80% he is indifferent too and often will decline them an interview given that he wasn't wowed. Everybody is a super star on paper in derm, but in real life are people with flaws. Sometimes away rotations hurt you because they allow the department to peak behind the veil. If you think you will be the top 10% they see, totally do it. Otherwise, be cautious with this unless your goal is simply to learn a lot as opposed to just getting an interview.

I was told by multiple mentors to defer step 2 until after applying given my very high step 1 score. The theory is that I would likely regress to the mean, which I did, and that shows a downward trend. Maybe my step 1 score was just luck is how it may appear. It's something to keep in mind and the department will look for any reason to disqualify your application given they have to narrow 450 down to 30-45 for interviews.

Did subI well into interview season, honored it, but was neutral to my application.

 

[ActinicKeratosis]

I did two aways: one was an excellent learning experience with exposure to derm surg, a high quality didactic program taught by faculty, and a lot of exposure to consultation derm with a really busy consult service. I saw SJS, really severe pemphigus, DRESS, etc. They did not give me an interview which was frustrating but expected given that I live on the east coast and program was on the west. Would do it again because it was a legitmately worthwhile learning experience. The other was a bull**** community program in my home state that I rotated through as a safety. It was mostly "faculty practice" read private practice with resident support. Unbelievably boring as a student, very little autonomy, totally bread and butter, a total waste of time.

With respect to aways generally, my mentor once gave me an insight that I found useful. He said that when he looks at away candidates, about 10-15% he loves and will actively try to recruit them to the institution, 10-15% he hates and will advocate against (they act bored, unhelpful, bad cultural fit, etc), 70-80% he is indifferent too and often will decline them an interview given that he wasn't wowed. Everybody is a super star on paper in derm, but in real life are people with flaws. Sometimes away rotations hurt you because they allow the department to peak behind the veil. If you think you will be the top 10% they see, totally do it. Otherwise, be cautious with this unless your goal is simply to learn a lot as opposed to just getting an interview.

I was told by multiple mentors to defer step 2 until after applying given my very high step 1 score. The theory is that I would likely regress to the mean, which I did, and that shows a downward trend. Maybe my step 1 score was just luck is how it may appear. It's something to keep in mind and the department will look for any reason to disqualify your application given they have to narrow 450 down to 30-45 for interviews.

Did subI well into interview season, honored it, but was neutral to my application.

Very informative post thank you very much for taking the time to share!

 

[Dwan]

This is the reason top 20 schools are so over represented in derm. An honors at Weil or Penn means more than an honors at a third tier medical school. Again, people from non top 20 med schools match all the time but they usually do like 3 aways, summer research, research year/fellowship in a department with a link program or something.

The "third tier medical schools" are actually more likely to have rigorous grading standards compared to top schools. The fact that you need 6-7/7 honors to qualify for AOA is an indication of how many honors they're giving out there. No one values a top school's H more than other schools when they're given out like candy, they value the name of your school on their resident list website.

 

[medschoolappl]

The "third tier medical schools" are actually more likely to have rigorous grading standards compared to top schools. The fact that you need 6-7/7 honors to qualify for AOA is an indication of how many honors they're giving out there. No one values a top school's H more than other schools when they're given out like candy, they value the name of your school on their resident list website.

Repectfully disagree. They average grade for a core clerkship at my school is high pass. For each rotation about 20% get honors, 60% get high pass, 20% get pass. It varies from rotation to rotation some more generous other less. I don't think there is like rampant grade inflation at top medical schools like there is in college.

 

[MilkIsGood]

did you match at home institution?

 

[JPSmyth]

I am interested in derm as an MS1 however I know how insanely competitive it is and will continue to be. My plan is to do research in melanoma during my pre-clinical years, as this can potentially tie into derm, or IM, or some other specialties if my step 1 isn't competitive enough for derm. But will this still be looked at as potentially "derm related" research?

 

[Slack3r]

This is the reason top 20 schools are so over represented in derm. An honors at Weil or Penn means more than an honors at a third tier medical school. Again, people from non top 20 med schools match all the time but they usually do like 3 aways, summer research, research year/fellowship in a department with a link program or something.

I think your characterization of top 20 med schools in derm is fairly overblown. At the top programs, sure. But even perusing the match list this year, outside of the Penn/Stanford/NYUs of the world, there are a LOT of mid tier programs represented amongst the incoming PGY1s.

 

[ScottyD.O.]

I was originally thinking rheum which I liked a lot but didn't want to do IM, also the return on investment for those extra 2 years of fellowship is minimal, so not a great investment. Was also thinking optho and ENT for some of the reasons described above but the residencies were much more intense and I don't really like the OR. Ultimately, derm was the best fit.

You've mentioned twice a distaste for IM...which I share! What is the best way to avoid IM or FP?

 

[username456789]

You've mentioned twice a distaste for IM...which I share! What is the best way to avoid IM or FP?

Don't apply for IM or FP.

 

[medschoolappl]

You've mentioned twice a distaste for IM...which I share! What is the best way to avoid IM or FP?

Eat your vegetables and don't do drugs.

 

[medschoolappl]

I think your characterization of top 20 med schools in derm is fairly overblown. At the top programs, sure. But even perusing the match list this year, outside of the Penn/Stanford/NYUs of the world, there are a LOT of mid tier programs represented amongst the incoming PGY1s.

There are no PGY1 derm spots, essentially all advanced spots. I would love to see this "match list" you are referencing. Your schools? There is no database of derm resident medical school origins to my knowledge. I am only speaking with respect to the people I met on the interview trail and past classes of places I interviewed.

 

[Slack3r]

There are no PGY1 derm spots, essentially all advanced spots. I would love to see this "match list" you are referencing. Your schools? There is no database of derm resident medical school origins to my knowledge. I am only speaking with respect to the people I met on the interview trail and past classes of places I interviewed.

I am well aware of when dermatology residency starts. I meant newly matches 4th years, such as yourself (i.e. will be incoming PGY1s).

As for a database... the graduating class of 2017 spreadsheet is about 80% complete, and of the schools reported, a vast majority are mid-tier and lower tier schools. Less than 25% of total spots are represented from top 20 schools (depending on your definition of "top 20"), and most of those students, as I said, are concentrated at the very top programs.

Derm is a competitive field, no doubt about it. It will be difficult no matter where you come from. But to suggest you have to come from a top school, or sell your soul is a bit asinine.



And here is 2016-2013