Originally posted by pathdr2b
Finally I think if anyone is still interested in pursuing an MPH I would certainily do it ONLY in Epidemiology and at a top school like Yale, Harvard, or UNC-Chapel Hill.
Hey! Add Michigan in there...
Originally posted by pathdr2b
Finally I think if anyone is still interested in pursuing an MPH I would certainily do it ONLY in Epidemiology and at a top school like Yale, Harvard, or UNC-Chapel Hill.
Originally posted by pathdr2b
MCATAZ made some interesting points in her/his last post but I think many of you were felt the need to defend your choice to get the MPH. It's simply a matter of statistics. Which degree, the MPH or MS will BEST help an applicant get into medical school. As I stated before, the acceptance rate for MS degree holders on SDN appears to be around 100%.
I too am very curious about where you applied because the adcoms I have spoken with hail from very good programs including Harvard which I didn't want to name drop but since you did I thought I should follow in suit.
The admissions office at Harvard, Hopkins, UPenn, and Duke told me the EXACT SAME THING. Get the MS not the MPH, so I guess that makes 2 of us. And the funny thing is that most of these schools have very strong MD/MPH programs.
You don't need a Masters in Public Health to find job opportunities in health care.
I won a fellwoship in cancer epidemiology a few years back at the NCI with the MS in Chemistry( and a few courses in Epidemiology). Because I had the MS and not the MPH, I was awarded an additional 2K over the MPH folks.
Finally I think if anyone is still interested in pursuing an MPH I would certainily do it ONLY in Epidemiology and at a top school like Yale, Harvard, or UNC-Chapel Hill.
Originally posted by gujuDoc
I'm just going to post what Mr. Larkin the USF admission's director told me last month at a Premed AMSA event....
He said that it depends on the case:
If you have a high GPA and need something to do for a year because you have to reapply or you need to retake the MCAT, then yes go ahead and get a Master's in Public Health.
If you however need to raise your GPA because you undergrad GPA is not high....then the way to prove yourself depending on your individual case is to either do a postbac degree in a science degree or to get a master's in a hardcore science background to prove you can handle a tough load of science courses.
That is what people mean when they say that it is better to get a science Masters instead of a public Health masters when applying to medical school.
Originally posted by FoughtFyr
Really, so my 2.8 undergrad (2.7 science), followed by an MPH got me into school how again?
I still think, all things considered the degree are equal in the eyes of most schools. While there may be exceptions, I think an MPH works to bring a non-competitive student "back into the fold" and thus subject to the randomness of the medical school admissions process.
- H
FoughtFyr said:Really, so my 2.8 undergrad (2.7 science), followed by an MPH got me into school how again?
I still think, all things considered the degree are equal in the eyes of most schools. While there may be exceptions, I think an MPH works to bring a non-competitive student "back into the fold" and thus subject to the randomness of the medical school admissions process.
- H
I'm a Florida Alumnae and a URM and ALL of the Florida MD schools wanted me to have above a 3.0 undergrad years ago when I was considering going back to Florida.gujuDoc said:I have talked to the people in my institution and from other Florida institutions that have medical schools...Mr Larkin the Admissions Director was the one that said that an MPH is discouraged if it is due to poor GPA.
gujuDoc said:FoughtFyr,
Congrats to you and yes you may be a living example of getting in, but as I said, what the rules are in illinois is different from Florida and other states.
Where I go to school a 3.7 Sci GPA and overall GPA is what they consider academic honors and good for scholarship receiving. Extracurriculars or no extracurriculars, they look more at GPA first for preliminary screening then at other things.
My admissions Director even told us that most people had a 3.6-3.7 avg AVG GPA and 30 Avg MCAT this year and in past years. They won't even look at us with a 2.8 undergrad even if we have a 4.0 MPH, unless we take some postbac science classes to get our gpa back to 3.0 minimum in both science and overall. Which is what I'm working toward figuring out right now, by hoping my senior year and a some extra chemistry courses. Then I'm planning on getting a Masters in microbiology and/or going to G'towns SMP program in DC if I can get in, While applying to medicals school.
pathdr2b said:This thread just goes to show how special nontrads are. We can all agree to disagree!!!!!
Congrads Foughtfyr and good luck GujuDoc!!!
PS- Foughtfyr, that application of yours was pretty tight.
exmike said:MPH programs vary widely in reputation and quality, so it would be unfair to use a broad brush to categorize them as "springboard" programs that arent as useful as "hard science" MS program. I think it really depends on your background, your application, and your goals as to what program fits you best. For some is it an MPH, for others, an MS. You have to review your app and and figure out which will improve you the most.
premed said:But it is ignorant to think that there is only one route (eg MS or MPH). Just because he got in, who's to say that you will.
FoughtFyr said:Almost all of this info is on my profile. I am a cauc. male. I have a 2.8 undergrad GPA with my degree in Community Health from the University of Illinois at Urbana (The degree is with honors - I transferred in late). I worked full-time as a firefighter/paramedic throughout school. I have an MPH in Environmental and Occupational Health Sciences from the University of Illinois at Chicago. I finished my pre-reqs there during my first year and I continued to work as a firefighter/paramedic and EMS instructor. My second year I was placed on full academic scholarship. I took my MCAT and scored a 30 (11, 9, 10). I applied to medical school (21 schools) with little sucess (1 waitlist). I also did EMS research leading to a "best clinical paper" award at the World Congress on Trauma. After my MPH, I got a job for a municipal consulting firm, and was tasked 1/2 time to the Major Incidents Investigation Team of the U.S. Fire Admin. (solely based on my MPH). I also reapplied to medical school, in a controlled fashion (3 applications). I was accepted to the University of Illinois at Chicago and will graduate in two weeks with my MD. Many of my classmates hold MPH degrees or will achieve them this year from the MD/MPH program. My strongest letters of rec. were from faculty holding joint appointments to the School of Public Health and the College of Medicine. After obtaining my MPH, I felt as though my admission was assured, and it was.
I am a living example of the adage "there is always a way." I have one "D" (unfairly awarded IMHO) on my undergrad transcript, an unimpressive GPA, and a passable MCAT, but I am graduating from my #1 choice medical school. I based my application (both to residency and medical school) on demonstrating that while I may not be the smartest applicant, I am the hardest working. That worked for me (twice!). As it was later described to me when I was on the adcom, my MPH "gave them the excuse" to admit me despite my grades. An MS would not have led me to the career I had begun after grad school (one I could still be happily employed at if I did not get in), and a post-bacc program would have been even less helpful. I am happy with all of the choices I have made, and if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't change a thing.
Good luck to everyone! Pm me if there is anything I can do to help.
- H
daelroy said:One note of interest: If you read Foughtfire's post carefully, you will notice that Foughtfire got REJECTEDafter a year of MPH classes even with a 30 MCAT. Wow, he sure made a case for the MPH. I don't know of very many one year MS/postbac applicants who get rejected after a completing just a year of work.
daelroy said:I'm a postbac student that got into 7 medical schools this Spring which included 3 allopathic schools and 4 osteopathic schools. I also scored well enough on the MCAT to become a private MCAT tutor who is not only writing a book on MCAT review but currently commands $60 per hour tutoring. I chose the postbac over the MPH for a couple of reasons. I needed to raise my overall and science undergrad GPA. Most medical schools have cutoffs of 3.0 > to apply.
daelroy said:I'm a postbac student that got into 7 medical schools this Spring which included 3 allopathic schools and 4 osteopathic schools. I also scored well enough on the MCAT to become a private MCAT tutor who is not only writing a book on MCAT review but currently commands $60 per hour tutoring. I chose the postbac over the MPH for a couple of reasons. I needed to raise my overall and science undergrad GPA. Most medical schools have cutoffs of 3.0 > to apply. This cutoff counts whether you have a high MS or MPH gpa. One adcom jokingly stated that he had never seen a candidate have less than a 3.8 GPA in his MPH. I'm not suggesting we can conclude with any certainty wherther the MPH is good or bad. There are going to be candidates that were successfull and unsucessfull as MPH candidates. IMHO, I just got the impression that adcoms think the MPH is a rather easy degree. If I was going to do it all over again, I would enroll in the program that most resembled an MS 1 class load and the MPH is a far cry from that. You know that and I know that. Your emphasis is on public health not medicine. If you are trying to comensate for a low undergrad GPA, I still think its better to take many classes and do overload in an MS or a postbac.
One note of interest: If you read Foughtfire's post carefully, you will notice that Foughtfire got REJECTEDafter a year of MPH classes even with a 30 MCAT. Wow, he sure made a case for the MPH. I don't know of very many one year MS/postbac applicants who get rejected after a completing just a year of work.
exmike said:I got a 3.7 in my MPH program and got 19 allopathic interviews. Hmm... 3.8? i dont think so. There is such variability between MPH programs that it is asolutely unfair to say they are all "easy". I got all A's in my non concentration classes b/c my concentration was infectious disease, which happens to be much harder than say, nutrition. In fact the large real science courseload in my concentration probably helped me in my apps.
I applied after i finished my MPH, that certainly helps since you have both the degree and two years of coursework.
As with any program, caveat emptor. You can do a post bacc MS program and not get in med school as well and have useless degree. At least a MPH is worth something in the non-medical field. I know plenty of people that get rejected after postbacc MS programs. The Georgetown SMP only matriculates 60% after yr 1 and maybe 80% year 2 and tahts including offshore and DO programs, and that program has the highest success rate.
I thing what is going on here is chest beating and arm waving about each persons own program being the best. Lets not confuse the issue here. The best program is different for each person, so 1) Stop putting down the program that you DIDNT do, and 2) lets give good information so the applicant can make an informed decision on what is best for him/her
Dont knock the MPH until you try it. It works.
kmjannie said:I have a question for everyone. Is it better to apply after you actually have the MPH degree or is it okay to apply after a year of classes. I am currently taking an overload (18 hours) and I did the same last semester. So, after May 19th I will only have 2 classes left in my MPH (Environmental Health and my Practicum project). However, due to a University mistake in processing my degree application, I cannot graduate (i.e. receive my MPH degree) until December 2004. But I will be complete with all degree requirements as of August 13th. Does this hurt me at all? I was thinking about sending an update to the schools in August and explaining the situation. Any advice?
Cheers.
exmike said:I got a 3.7 in my MPH program and got 19 allopathic interviews. Hmm... 3.8? i dont think so. There is such variability between MPH programs that it is asolutely unfair to say they are all "easy". I got all A's in my non concentration classes b/c my concentration was infectious disease, which happens to be much harder than say, nutrition. In fact the large real science courseload in my concentration probably helped me in my apps.
I applied after i finished my MPH, that certainly helps since you have both the degree and two years of coursework.
As with any program, caveat emptor. You can do a post bacc MS program and not get in med school as well and have useless degree. At least a MPH is worth something in the non-medical field. I know plenty of people that get rejected after postbacc MS programs. The Georgetown SMP only matriculates 60% after yr 1 and maybe 80% year 2 and tahts including offshore and DO programs, and that program has the highest success rate.
I thing what is going on here is chest beating and arm waving about each persons own program being the best. Lets not confuse the issue here. The best program is different for each person, so 1) Stop putting down the program that you DIDNT do, and 2) lets give good information so the applicant can make an informed decision on what is best for him/her
Dont knock the MPH until you try it. It works.
edit: you also say how public health focuses on public health, not medicine. you're missing the big picture if you don't see how the two are inextricably tied together. in fact, almost every adcom mentioned how great it was to have a MPH going into medical school.
FoughtFyr said:Actually, I do. I know of many one year MS students who didn't get in, including my brother-in-law, who is now a chiropractor {shudder}. Outside of my family, I have seen hundreds not admitted here. One year programs cannot raise your overall GPA that much, especially if you have more than 120 hours in undergrad (I had nearly 170 after changing majors).
If you also read my post carefully you will see that my school, like most, does not award full "credit" for completeing any post-bac work until that program is completed. Therefore, I only got "credit" for my MPH (beyond the GPA bump) after it was done. After working on the adcom (not just "talking to someone") I know that the "credit" given for completing any master's is more than is given for completion of a post-bac.
BTW - Has your post bac given you any training that will improve your career? Because my MPH has. Almost every residency program I applied to this year commented on it positvely. My close friend who did a post-bac program was advised not to bring it up at residency interviews.- H
daelroy said:An MS degrees afford one better research opportunities since their coursework is more rigorous and concentrated in science. MPH degrees offer you opportunities in public health because it is a more specialized field. And none of the MPH jobs that were available impressed me. Even the Centers for Disease Control prefer MS in chemistry or biochemistry over MPH grads because they are flooded with field workers. They are seeking researchers so for all intensive purpose the MPH is a useless degree unless you enjoy working for some wild life refuge examining e-coli in the water.
daelroy said:Whooa a 3.7 is much less than a 3.8. Yeah, you sure made your point. You are still missing the point by a mile and you refuse to acknowledge anyone's else point on this issue simply because you got the MPH. If you are trying to compensate for a low GPA, you should puruse an MS or post-bacc. If you are someone who has a strong GPA but a weak MCAT, the MPH is probably the better degree. The MPH degree 9 times out of 10 does not involve the same level of rigor as an MS or posbac. That is a fact. Compare any MPH curriculum with any hard science MS or postbac and the MPH curriculum is far easier. That is why most adcoms do not advise pursuing an MPH if one is trying to rectify a weak academic record.
daelroy said:A postbac may be a useless degree but then again I didn't need to complete two years in one before I got accepted. Most of my friends only need a year of postbac to get in.
daelroy said:I think that had a lot to do with the fact that adcoms recognized our class schedule and was impressed by how rigourous it was. Postbac kicks you ass. I had 23 credits in one quarter of all upper level biology courses. I didn't have ean useless MPH classes to infllate my GPA. I think adcoms were impressed by that. Most people in postbac don't complete it with the expectation that we won't get in. And I question your 60% success rate at Georgetown and citing that as the most successfull postbac in existance. My program easily exceed that rate.
daelroy said:Let's not make the MPH more or less than what it is.
daelroy said:I know you are proud of your MPH and you want to suggest that your curriculum was rigorous. If you have a high GPA and just need to do something while you are trying to raise your MCAT, go for the MPH. It's easier; you can party. You will have a better time. If you are trying to compensate for a low GPA, pursue a more challenging postbac or an MS.
daelroy said:There is no need to embellish the truth by suggesting that MPH degrees offer the same level of difficulty as an MS or postbac. You know that's not true; we know that's not true; most importantly ADCOMS know that's not true.
pathdr2b said:Not tyring to add more fuel to this "fire" but as the seemily ONLY person here that has completed graduate courses toward an MPH AND an MS in a Science, IMHO the MS was "harder" but not significantly harder than the MPH/Epidemiology courses I've taken at places like UFla, Chapel Hill and Hopkins.
W222 said:IF I have the opportunity and time to do both an MPH and MS before applying to medical school again (this will be application #3) should I go for both. I really have an interest in doing both programs and I know that both programs where I am now are strong. I dont plan on applying until the next cycle (for fall 2006). What are the opinions here?
FoughtFyr said:Hey Path,
Did the adcom chastise you for your MPH courses? Did your MPH courses count on your GPA the same as your MS courses? (I know they did, just wanted to point out the obvious to Daelroy et al).
- H
daelroy said:I know enough rejected MPH applicants that programs like postbac were introduced to offer a curriculum that would provide students an opportunity to demonstrate they could handle a rigorous courseload since MPH's were known for being easy.
daelroy said:Not all postbac serve to provide just the prereqs. Many of them were created to allow students to compensate for low GPA's. Most adcoms became skeptical of MPH degrees. Every year, they saw students with 2.8's get 3.8's in their MPH. Second and Third time MPH candidates are a dime a dozen. After while, adcoms caught on and realized MPH degrees were easy. Students could complete projects at their own pace and if they were on good terms with their professors, they got A's. Their classes were usually smaller and didn't have that gunner environment that postbacs have. I spoke to an adcom about this and she said that postbac puts students more on an equal scale than an MPH. She said that just like the MCAT compares students accross the board, she noted that postbac classes put students in the same classes as many gunner pre-meds. They know the competition in that environment is far more competitive than the benign MPH environment.
daelroy said:Every adcom I spoke emitted this same sentiment. Again, this is an adcom I spoke with. You aren't the only who spoke with them.
daelroy said:What? You don't get grades? You don't have a transcript from the work you completed? You are telling everyone here that you could only get credit for classes after you completed your MPH 2 years later? {SNIP} I'm calling bs on that one. And even if this is true, don't you think your MPH handcuffed you by preventing you from claiming credit until after you completed your program. You had no choice but to waste two years.
daelroy said:My postbac has prepared me for medical school far better than your MPH did. Do you think your MPH environment was as competitive as my gunner pre-med postbac environment? Did you take one quarter of 23 credits of all upper level science classes that were exam based? {SNIP} That's probably why my classmates are in the top 15% of their class now. We were all used to working really hard in our program which makes the transition to medical school that much easier. Also, I didn't need to complete two years of an MPH. I got in after only a year of postbac. That saved me 55K that year. Not having to waste another year saved me money.
daelroy said:And what about all the candidates that don't have an MPH. You really think your MPH gave you an edge over them if they had better board scores, grades and medically relevant research; probably not. If anything, the MPH will indicate to them that you were a reapplicant. However, many non-science majors with respectable scores enroll in postbac so postbac doesn't always indicate reapplicant like the MPH does because MPH grads were former science majors. They know that you didn't just enroll in an MPH because you loved public health.
daelroy said:However, many non-science majors with respectable scores enroll in postbac so postbac doesn't always indicate reapplicant like the MPH does because MPH grads were former science majors. They know that you didn't just enroll in an MPH because you loved public health.
daelroy said:I don't care about my job prospects because I didn't plan on working after my postbac. I planned on getting into medical school. My program paid off. I'm going to medical school. I don't need to waste time pursing a field like public health which I'm not interested in.
daelroy said:And most resident directors know that MPH = reapplicant. And no resident director at any of the local hospitals which I'm affiliated with cared at all whether you had your MPH.
daelroy said:They care about your USMLE step one scores and your medical school grades.
daelroy said:Can you honestly say your MPH prepared you better for your basic science classes as well as my postbac or most hard science MS programs; probably not.
daelroy said:Finally, a student in our program matched in dermatology at the University of Tennessee this year. Interestingly enough, this person was the valedictorian of our program and had a 4.0 GPA. Competitive programs like derm ask for undergrad grades and transcripts. When the program saw the valedictorian award and 4.0 GPA in the student's physiology degree, they were impressed particularly since it was the student's most recent grades. And in derm, they could care less about an MPH. I would say a position in the most competitive residency in medicine in the world would speak well of a postbac.
daelroy said:My last point is this. How many MPH schools have an established linkage program with associated medical schools? That's what I thought. There are many postbac and MS programs that have linkage programs with medical schools. This is yet another reason why postbac and a hard science MS should be pursued above the MPH.
daelroy said:An MS degrees afford one better research opportunities since their coursework is more rigorous and concentrated in science. MPH degrees offer you opportunities in public health because it is a more specialized field. And none of the MPH jobs that were available impressed me. Even the Centers for Disease Control prefer MS in chemistry or biochemistry over MPH grads because they are flooded with field workers. They are seeking researchers so for all intensive purpose the MPH is a useless degree unless you enjoy working for some wild life refuge examining e-coli in the water. Whooa a 3.7 is much less than a 3.8. Yeah, you sure made your point. You are still missing the point by a mile and you refuse to acknowledge anyone's else point on this issue simply because you got the MPH. If you are trying to compensate for a low GPA, you should puruse an MS or post-bacc. If you are someone who has a strong GPA but a weak MCAT, the MPH is probably the better degree. The MPH degree 9 times out of 10 does not involve the same level of rigor as an MS or posbac. That is a fact. Compare any MPH curriculum with any hard science MS or postbac and the MPH curriculum is far easier. That is why most adcoms do not advise pursuing an MPH if one is trying to rectify a weak academic record. A postbac may be a useless degree but then again I didn't need to complete two years in one before I got accepted. Most of my friends only need a year of postbac to get in. I think that had a lot to do with the fact that adcoms recognized our class schedule and was impressed by how rigourous it was. Postbac kicks you ass. I had 23 credits in one quarter of all upper level biology courses. I didn't have ean useless MPH classes to infllate my GPA. I think adcoms were impressed by that. Most people in postbac don't complete it with the expectation that we won't get in. And I question your 60% success rate at Georgetown and citing that as the most successfull postbac in existance. My program easily exceed that rate.
Let's not make the MPH more or less than what it is. I know you are proud of your MPH and you want to suggest that your curriculum was rigorous. If you have a high GPA and just need to do something while you are trying to raise your MCAT, go for the MPH. It's easier; you can party. You will have a better time. If you are trying to compensate for a low GPA, pursue a more challenging postbac or an MS. There is no need to embellish the truth by suggesting that MPH degrees offer the same level of difficulty as an MS or postbac. You know that's not true; we know that's not true; most importantly ADCOMS know that's not true. Just be honest and leave it at that. Trying to convince any of us that the MPH was a rigorous and challenging academic program is waste of time.
pathdr2b said:Not tyring to add more fuel to this "fire" but as the seemily ONLY person here that has completed graduate courses toward an MPH AND an MS in a Science, IMHO the MS was "harder" but not significantly harder than the MPH/Epidemiology courses I've taken at places like UFla, Chapel Hill and Hopkins.
exmike said:I've done both too. I'm getting a 3.9 in my post bacc MS and I got a 3.7 in my MPH. go figure. The point is that the daelroy person is wrong to be categorizing each program so strictly - in essence dismissing the MPH degree and its credibility.
AndyDufrane said:hi, here is my story in a nutshell.Graduated in 99 form a small NY state school with a 2.93 GPA and 27 MCAT(11-V,7-P,9-B) wih practically no clinical experience and a little bit of dinky research project my senior year, applied, to MD school no interview...did a master in natural sciences at U of Buffalo and retook the MCAT-30(9-V,9-P,12-B) but still not alot of clincal/volunteer experience-got 4 interviews, got waitlisted but still not accepted...took 1 year to do an AmeriCorp program related to community health 2 interviews at MD schoool9 SUNY Upstate and Drexel), got waitlisted at both, and finally got off the waitlist and accepted into Drexel last summer and am finishing up my first year, all in all, it tool my 4 years in the making and having to apply 3x...my advice, if I had to do it all over again... in rank from most impt
1.)Do well on the MCAT, at least a 30 and 9's or above
2.)forget these post bacs and masters programs, they are money making schemes, i wasted alot of unecessary time and energy doing a stupid masters.. do the following:I would take between 5-10 of these courses, whatever you financial and time constraints,
take part time graduate level classes(nothing too advance, just intro or something for grad students, if you can take classes that med students take, even better) in biochem, microanatomy/histology, human or medical physio, immunology, neuroscience, stats, nutrition, genetics,pharm, micriobiology..the ones really crucial to take are the first 3, they are bif courses, the rest if you can find them and if they come easy to you...by doing this and doing well, you not only demonstrate to adcoms you are capable of doing well but alos help yourself prepare for your first year in med school, trust me, when my classmates were sweating immuno, i was cruising along because I took it in grad school
3.)do part ime research in lab, but make sure your PI does not take you for a sucker and expect you to be ther 9-5, or treat you like a post doc, and the research should be somehting obviously medically related and you find interesting
4.)recs, recs, recs..I think these really helped me, I must have had like 15 letters of rec in my file, form physicans to volunteer coordinators to undergrad and grad professors
5.)volunteer, but make sure it is medically or clincally related, look into AmeriCorp, I think they have part time prgramd that are health related, and plus they let you work with medically underserved pops, which I think is gold on the app
6.)if you get waitlisted, write many letters telling the school how much you are interested and loved their school, etc.
Hope it helps
All in all, everyone had their own root, keep strugglin, it'll happen , esp when you least suspect it, i actually had submitted my AMCAS when i found out I was taken off the waitlist, but you must realize you also have to be realistic, if you have s sub 2.5 GPA or sub 27 MCAT, look at Do schools befor eyou look at foreign schools, and if you must look foreign, look at St George
pathdr2b said:I don't knwo HOW i forgot about youwith the exceptional app you submitted.
However, I don't think he/she is categorizing becasue I have expereinced the same comments that he's referring to in regards to the perception that the MS is a more rigorous program than the MPH. Like some of you have said, it depends on what you want/need out of a program but I can tell you that the job market for someone with a MS in say Chemistry with an MPH in Environemntal Health is great!
exmike said:I've done both too. I'm getting a 3.9 in my post bacc MS and I got a 3.7 in my MPH. go figure. The point is that the daelroy person is wrong to be categorizing each program so strictly - in essence dismissing the MPH degree and its credibility.
daelroy said:I'm not dismissing the MPH. The MPH is a great degree if you want to work in public health. If you are trying to use the MPH to show adcoms you can handle a medical school course load, then the MPH will not serve that purpose. The MPH, in general, is not as academically rigorous as an MS or a hard science postbac. Those of you in an MPH know I'm right and are getting defensive because that was your degree. This isn't meant to be offensive but simply the truth. Compare any MPH curriculum with that of an MS in chemistry or postbac focusing exclusive on medical school related courses and it's not even close. Someone else on this thread said it best. If you have a high GPA and just need something to do while you are waiting as a reapplicant, get the MPH. You don't need to suffer in an MS or postbac unless you want an edge in medical school. BUT if you are trying cover up a weak academic record, avoid the MPH because adcoms know there are more challenging programs available.
I'm Out
FoughtFyr said:I still don't know where you are getting this drivel. I was on an adcom, and what you are saying is simply not true. See my previous posts (which you have left unanswered). Adcoms do not "rank" graduate programs in terms of challenge. There is no way to do that. Some adcoms (especially those in schools with post bacc programs) may feel a post bacc is best, but I know that mine did not. Those of us who took the time to answer you did so with facts, not opinions. Based on either service on adcoms or the completion of both of the degrees in question. You got in with a post bacc. Congrats and all but big deal. Many others have and many others have not. But your spouting off about what adcoms will and won't consider is pure bovine scatology. I really hope you find all you are looking for in school and your career. But please, try and limit your advice in these forums to things you know about. Not things you once heard or think are true.
- H
daelroy said:I read your drivel and you did no such thing. You simply provided your opinion. Your facts as always are unsubstantiated and you tend to embellish them with every post. Your post isn't worth my response. I have already proven my point which is why you are getting so angry. I exposed your weak defense three posts ago. But go ahread and try to convince the rest of the forum how an MPH is academically rigorous. Most people know better. Even your comrade on this forum is pursuing an MS postbac AFTER HE GOT AN A MPH. Hypocrisy at its finest.
FoughtFyr said:Post bacc programs were started by private medical schools to make money. Schools of Public Health were started to teach public health. Remember, the vast majority of public health students are not applying to medical school.
No sir, I served on one, not "spoke with".
The points here are only awarded when complete, so I didn't get the "extra" points for my MPH until it was done. The points for an MS are equal to the point for an MPH (unless the MS thesis was published, then there would be extra points for the publication - moot in my situation as I also had research).
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Do the math with me: number of people in post bacc programs applying to medical school = 100%. Number of MPH candidates applying to Medical School ~ 15%. And MPH=reapplicant?
Actually, I didn't decide to apply at all until I was in the MPH, my professors there suggested it. So, no, my first application was as an MPH candidate.
You still think a post bacc program doesn't suggest reapplicant? Consider this, there are many, many MPHs who never intend on going to medical school. There are several more who are already doctors. I was the TA for the MPH program at my campus of my medical school. Of the 45 students we had, 0 were applying to medical school. To be fair, there were 5 physicians and 11 MD/MPH students, but 66% had nothing what so ever to do with medical school.
Same could be said for many of my MPH classmates. BTW - do you have any clue how many public health students there are nationwide? The Public Health Student Caucus, a group similar to AMSA, has 4,500 members in more than 100 schools. They estimate the number of public health students totals over 20K nationwide. Are you so ignorant as to believe all of those people are trying to apply to medical school?
As I said before, you are lucky, talented or both. But what about those who don't get in?
So now you have applied to residency too? Every residency I applied to mentioned my MPH positively. Every administrator at my school suggested I make it a point of my residency app. Open a medical textbook sometime and notice all of the MD, MPH authors. Find me one textbook where an author lists completion of a post bacc. Don't kid yourself, MPH is a respected degree in medicine.
BTW - how many MDs go back to school for their post baccs? How many go back for an MPH? Case closed.
Stpe 1 and clinical grades (M3) mostly, LORs too. It was nice to be able to offer something additional.
Well, I have classmates that matched into derm, optho, and neurosurg. None were asked for undergrad transcripts. But if they were, you really think that a lackluster performance in undergrad followed by a post bacc is better than graduating with honors from a big 10 school then getting an MPH on full academic scholarship?
If by linkage you mean guaranteed admission, none of them. That is not what an MPH is for.
If you mean how many are associated with medical schools with cross appointed faculty, almost all of them. Remember this, preventative medicine and occupational medicine residencies require acquisition of an MPH. How many residents were in your post bacc classes?
FoughtFyr said:Hey Path,
Did the adcom chastise you for your MPH courses? Did your MPH courses count on your GPA the same as your MS courses? (I know they did, just wanted to point out the obvious to Daelroy et al).
- H
daelroy said:If that's all it took, we would all be getting a Masters in Physical education and getting 4.0's....oh wait...that happens in the MPH. nevermind
exmike said:It is obvious that this poster insists on undermining the MPH. If you believe that, then that is fine. Sure, to you the MPH may be useless, but to 19 adcomm members out there, it was enough to prove I could hack it even though I had a 3.01 science GPA. If it didnt prove something, then maybe it was just LUCK that got me 19 interviews? Hmm luck, or my MPH? I'll go with my MPH.
On that note, i will no longer respond to your posts as you have no sense of compromise or reason. i hope your post bacc takes you far.
daelroy said:Then why are you currently pursuing a postbac? It's really a simple question. Why do you keep avoiding it? If the MPH was enough to get you 19 interviews, why are you pursuing a postbac then? You have defended the MPH and put down the postbac yet you are pursuing the latter. The truth is you value the postbac which is why you are currently pursuing one. You got 19 interviews and no acceptances with an MPH, therefore you are pursuing a postbac. You are a hypocrite and a disingenous one at that. Only a fool would argue that an MPH is more valuable than a postbac and then pursue a postbac after he got his MPH because he didn't get into medical school with the MPH. Yes, it's best that you don't respond becauseyou lost all credibility in this thread. Look up the word hypocrite when you get a chance.
exmike said:Are you smoking crack? because that must be some good stuff. I finished my MPH last year (2003) then applied THIS CYCLE, I got 19 interiews, went to 10, got in 6 schools. I'M ALREADY IN MED SCHOOL. I DID NOT DO THE POSTBACC TO GET IN MED SCHOOL.THEREFORE THE SCHOOLS INTERVIEWED AND ACCEPTED ME BASED ON MY MCAT/GPA and MPH.
[I am CURRENTLY in the post bacc b/c i decided it was the best way to spend my glide year 1) as insurance in case i didnt get somewhere i liked and 2) to prepare for my MS1 year. I got into all my schools before I even finished my first semester at the MS post bacc!
You pretty much just lost any credibility you have. You should read before you flame. Look up "foot in mouth" when you get the chance.
daelroy said:Foot in mouth, follow your own advice. You decided to spend a year in postbac as insurance in case you didn't get in somewhere. Right, so you criticize the postbac yet you entered one as insurance because you were unsure you would get in with your MPH even after 19 interviews. In other words you valued a postbac as insurance because you were unsure about your admissions success. Then you took it to prepare yourself for MS1 classes. What's wrong, your MPH didn't accomplish that? LOL For as much crap as you spoke about the postbac, you decided to enter one at the last minute. That's like an aetheist demanding last rites. You keeping making your situation worse with every response. Keep digging.