Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology

[Sanman]

Hey,
So I went to a grad school fair yesterday and talked to a representative yesterday. Apparently, its a 4 year PsyD program with an option for a 5th year APA internship and requires at least a 3.0 gpa and an 1140 on the GRE, but no psych GRE. It costs $36,000 a year!!! It seems like the avg's are low for a doctoral program. Is this program on the level or is this one of hack schools that I keep on being warned about? Anybody have info?

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[Sanman]

Anybody around...its pretty dead in here.

 

[ckent]

Originally posted by Sanman
Anybody around...its pretty dead in here.

Sorry, the psychology forum is a brand new branch of sdn. Give it time, eventually people will find this website and post here. If you go back to the beginning of the allopathic forum, you will find some posts saying exactly what you are saying here. $36,000 is a lot for graduate school; but they might make up for a lot of it with financial aid. If you are interested in research, you can go to some clinical psych PhD programs for free plus they will pay a stipend.

 

[Grad4Clinical]

Hey,
So I went to a grad school fair yesterday and talked to a representative yesterday. Apparently, its a 4 year PsyD program with an option for a 5th year APA internship and requires at least a 3.0 gpa and an 1140 on the GRE, but no psych GRE. It costs $36,000 a year!!! It seems like the avg's are low for a doctoral program. Is this program on the level or is this one of hack schools that I keep on being warned about? Anybody have info?

Hey, sorry no one has responded much earlier, and I don't know if my information will be at all helpful, but here are my thoughts on MPSP. First of all, they are a VERY psychodynamic school. Boston is actually one of the last "centers" of Freudian based theory, so that in itself scared me off. Secondly, housing in Boston sucks. After paying such HUGE bills for school you will also be paying $1,000/mo (if you're lucky) to have a roof over your head. I actually live in the suburbs here so I'm pretty aware of the crappy real estate options. Also, it is such a small school that if you have a run in with your advisor and need to switch, or any other potentially degree hindering events occur it would much harder to rearrange things to make you comfortable. I would just carefully read through all that they have to offer. I've heard people in the area say it's a good school, but you also need to take into account what YOU want to get out of a school.

 

[winnie]

I'm not sure about this, but I think MSPP is actually cheaper than many of the other expensive PsyD schools (e.g. Yeshiva, Denver, Hartford). I'm also wondering how these four compare in terms of quality. I noticed that Hartford got ranked much higher than the others in the list that's on the internet, but that's a few years old now. Anyone got any info on how these schools compare? I'm just wondering if it's worth applying to them as a backup in case I don't get in anywhere cheaper.

 

[PublicHealth]

How about Ph.D. programs? Most are funded.

Psy.D. is less recognized and puts you at a disadvantage when it comes to getting academic jobs. While it may land you a clinical position, these kinds of jobs are becoming scarce for doctoral-level psychologists, as Master's level therapists (M.S.W.'s in particular) are doing the same job for much less money.

 

[Kushkeeee]

How about Ph.D. programs? Most are funded.

Psy.D. is less recognized and puts you at a disadvantage when it comes to getting academic jobs. While it may land you a clinical position, these kinds of jobs are becoming scarce for doctoral-level psychologists, as Master's level therapists (M.S.W.'s in particular) are doing the same job for much less money.

Not to be a downer because I"m sure you are excited about the Psy.D. program. But my former advisor directed me away from pursuing this degree. Even aside from the fact that you can not get teaching positions with this degree, he feels the future of these programs are unstable at best and that if I want security when I graduate I should pursue a Ph.D. I'm not trying to be negative or anything, I'm just relaying to you the info he gave me.

ANd as far as the M.S.W comment is concerned, I've also heard people say that people with a master's in Social Work are replacing people with Master's in Psych, as well as people with the Psy. D. I have a friend who went on to get her master's in social work (as opposed to psych) for this very reason. Now you can even get a master's degree in counseling alone, which is considered totally separate from the psych field. There's just a lot of competition for jobs now, and I think it's affecting many areas, not just psych.

 

[Sanman]

Out of curiousity, do PsyD's find it difficult to get teaching positions at less research based schools (e.g. community colleges and small liberal art schools). I'm thinking of applying to one or two PsyD programs, the well-funded, more research-based ones.

 

[winnie]

Thanks for your input, guys. Food for thought...I've heard so many different opinions about PsyDs. I have 2 sisters-in-law who are clinical psychologists (both with PhDs) and they encouraged me to go the PsyD route because it's quicker and "you can do the same things." Both were adamant that the places where they work don't treat PsyDs any differently from PhDs.

But then I understand where you guys are coming from too...One of the main reasons I decided to apply mostly to PsyD programs (as well as a few clinically-oriented PhD ones) was that I want to work primarily as a clinician. I'm not at all interested in being a professor or full-time researcher. Still, to broaden my options I probably would apply to more "regular" PhD places if I could get more research experience. I live abroad in a country without much of a volunteer culture and where I'm not fluent in the language. On the plus side I do have volunteer clinical experience and great grades (4.00) and GRE scores (1420 Q+V). I also have other tangentially related experience (teaching, and I've had a language textbook published). I don't know what this will count for, though. I'm older (37) and don't feel like I can wait much longer...

Now you got me wondering about MSWs. What's stopping me from going this route? Am I just being snobbish?

 

[sukurux]

bringing mspp back from the dead. anyone else get accepted here?

 

[h2oLillies]

Now you got me wondering about MSWs. What's stopping me from going this route? Am I just being snobbish?

yea i am wondering the same thing and in the same boat. Clinical MSW seems like it may be the best route with my main clinical and teaching interests but I still have PsyD thoughts...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

yea i am wondering the same thing and in the same boat. Clinical MSW seems like it may be the best route with my main clinical and teaching interests but I still have PsyD thoughts...

It is still apples and oranges. I think the doctoral training will be far more in depth than you'd get at the MS level. Research and stats classes, significantly more academic instruction and supervision, etc. I am a big believer in the value of research in practice, so I have an obvious bias.

I'm not sure about being a prof, though I'd think you'd be limited in what you could do. (I don't know as much about academia, it is not my area, so I'd defer to someone who works in the area for direct info)

That being said, for strictly therapy, the MSW can be a good fit. I think the pay is definitely a downside. There seems to be a lot of opportunity at the MS level, but they don't seem to pay that well. I know quite a few LCSWs (slightly different), and they do great work. From what they told me, they learned a lot during and after their licensure....I think it has a lot to do with what you want out of your training, and if you are willing to actively seek out more training.

After going through doctoral training I feel like I've learned so much more than I would have at the MS level. It really comes down to what you want to do, but if I did it all over again, I'd choose the doctoral route again, though I would have looked at more clinically based PhD programs. (I applied pre-SDN psych forum, so I was working with much more limited information about what was out there)

-t

 

[Shrinkaway]

I live in MA, so whenever I talked with one of my professors, plus one current psychologist with a PO,and told them i was interested in grad school, they often mentioned MSPP as a great program. They told me that PsyDs are the wave of the future for those who want to be clinicians (vs. research); then they always mention MSPP as a good program i should look into. However, I also talked with a psychologist who graduated from MSPP back when it first started, and now works at a prestigious hospital, and he flat out told me that you wouldnt be able to get an internship at the hospital with a degree from MSPP though; that they want "high-powered" schools like UofM, Berkeley, etc. (so in a sense discrediting psyd's in general too).

On a personal note though, during my interview there, I really liked it because of how approachable and friendly the professors and students were, the broad range of courses they offer, as well as all the practicum sites they have (over 160!). Also, they have a good # of their profs wear multiple hats, which i thought was a good sign; some of them had psyd's too, so they were profs, had a PO, worked in a community mental health center, at a hospital, etc.

 

[Shrinkaway]

I live in MA, so whenever I talked with one of my professors, plus one current psychologist with a PO,and told them i was interested in grad school, they often mentioned MSPP as a great program. They told me that PsyDs are the wave of the future for those who want to be clinicians (vs. research); then they always mention MSPP as a good program i should look into. However, I also talked with a psychologist who graduated from MSPP back when it first started, and now works at a prestigious hospital, and he flat out told me that you wouldnt be able to get an internship at the hospital with a degree from MSPP though; that they want "high-powered" schools like UofM, Berkeley, etc. (so in a sense discrediting psyd's in general too).

On a personal note though, during my interview there, I really liked it because of how approachable and friendly the professors and students were, the broad range of courses they offer, as well as all the practicum sites they have (over 160!). Also, they have a good # of their profs wear multiple hats, which i thought was a good sign; some of them had psyd's too, so they were profs, had a PO, worked in a community mental health center, at a hospital, etc.

 

[KillerDiller]

Is it still true that the internship year is optional? That seems highly odd to me. I wasn't aware that any school awarded a doctorate without the fulfillment of the internship.

 

[kojo]

Not to be a downer because I"m sure you are excited about the Psy.D. program. But my former advisor directed me away from pursuing this degree. Even aside from the fact that you can not get teaching positions with this degree, he feels the future of these programs are unstable at best and that if I want security when I graduate I should pursue a Ph.D. I'm not trying to be negative or anything, I'm just relaying to you the info he gave me.

ANd as far as the M.S.W comment is concerned, I've also heard people say that people with a master's in Social Work are replacing people with Master's in Psych, as well as people with the Psy. D. I have a friend who went on to get her master's in social work (as opposed to psych) for this very reason. Now you can even get a master's degree in counseling alone, which is considered totally separate from the psych field. There's just a lot of competition for jobs now, and I think it's affecting many areas, not just psych.

Your comments about what your advisor said is not true. Many PhD academics are biased for a number of reasons and will spew this type of opinion. Psyds can teach, in undergrad programs, professional schools, in medical schools, and universities but the PhD person with a track record of research has a better chance. PsyDs are more popular than ever and social work just cannot compare-they are NOT psychologists-trained in psychology. Social workers cannot do psychological evaluations, dont seem to do program eval, will probably never prescribe drugs, and from my experience are less likely to be involved in administration compared to Psyds or PhDs.

 

[Jon4PsyD]

I have also heard good things about MSPP from the local Massachusetts area. It seems to be respected. My issue is that I had spoken to the dean there last year (Before deciding on the M.A. route first) and for me it's location was terrible--it's really in the middle of an industrial park, so basically nowhere. With no public transportation close to the school. He had mentioned to me that because of financial reasons the school could be moving in a year or two. Possibly closer in to Boston, possibly a longer distance from the city.

Anyone attending MSPP now or gone on recent interviews that may have updates on this?

Jon

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

From what I've heard about the school, it seems to place in the Boston area, like many other programs that get local roots and have a strength at placing in the area. It seems like it has solid faculty, but it seems very isolated. I like the university experience and feel more integrated in that regard, so I'm not sure how it would be at a place was just the classrooms, etc. Do they have clinics/research labs right there, or are they at other locations?

-t

 

[NeuroPhD]

Your comments about what your advisor said is not true. Many PhD academics are biased for a number of reasons and will spew this type of opinion. Psyds can teach, in undergrad programs, professional schools, in medical schools, and universities but the PhD person with a track record of research has a better chance.

Forget spewed opinions, just look at faculty listings. Of course some PsyDs teach, but they are a very small minority.

PsyDs are more popular than ever and social work just cannot compare-they are NOT psychologists-trained in psychology. Social workers cannot do psychological evaluations, dont seem to do program eval, will probably never prescribe drugs, and from my experience are less likely to be involved in administration compared to Psyds or PhDs

All of the above are opinions. Many social workers do perform psychological evaluations, and, I've come across just as many MSWs in administration as psychologists. Program evaluation is a general term and you can find every kind of professional doing it. As for prescribing drugs...that's a whole other issue. Rx issues shouldn't guide professional decisions for people entering training now (with the exception of two states).

I don't think anyone should commit to seven years of training and 150K of debt with a plan to be an exception in their own field.

 

[kojo]

Forget spewed opinions, just look at faculty listings. Of course some PsyDs teach, but they are a very small minority.



All of the above are opinions. Many social workers do perform psychological evaluations, and, I've come across just as many MSWs in administration as psychologists. Program evaluation is a general term and you can find every kind of professional doing it. As for prescribing drugs...that's a whole other issue. Rx issues shouldn't guide professional decisions for people entering training now (with the exception of two states).


I don't think anyone should commit to seven years of training and 150K of debt with a plan to be an exception in their own field.

Lots of PsyDs teach, just not in research based universities.

I know of no social workers that do formal psychological evaluations. Does anybody else? From my own experience, I have seen more psychologists managing psychiatric wards and outpatient centers than social workers. I have no hard evidence to back this up.

I would agree, no one should commit to 150K debt whether its based on a PhD or PsyD, but then again who are we to say what one should and should not pay on their education?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Lots of PsyDs teach, just not in research based universities.

I think it is less likely they'll be in a research heavy university. I think they can 'prove' their way, but it is much more uphill. If you want to work at a research heavy university, there really is no substitute for a PhD.

I know of no social workers that do formal psychological evaluations. Does anybody else? From my own experience, I have seen more psychologists managing psychiatric wards and outpatient centers than social workers. I have no hard evidence to back this up.

I don't know of any either. Psychologists seem to have shifted from primary therapists to administrative.

-t

 

[NeuroPhD]

QUOTE=kojo;5054277]Lots of PsyDs teach, just not in research based universities.

I know of no social workers that do formal psychological evaluations. Does anybody else? From my own experience, I have seen more psychologists managing psychiatric wards and outpatient centers than social workers. I have no hard evidence to back this up.
I[/QUOTE]

How do you think social workers in private practice bill insurance companies? They may not use testing, but they do perform diagnostic evaluations. Quick Google search-I pasted a description below of a pacticum site for UM social work students.

http://www.med.umich.edu/psych/education/socialw/about.htm
Students will be assigned to one of three outpatient multidisciplinary teams. The student in this practicum will do comprehensive diagnostic assessments and treatment planning, and will provide outpatient psychotherapy for people requesting help with depression, personality disorders and other mental health disorders. The student will treat a wide range of patients, and will learn the theory and practice of various psychosocial interventions, including cognitive-behavioral treatment, interpersonal psychotherapy, dialectical behavior therapy, and brief psychodynamic psychotherapy. The student will primarily provide treatment to individuals, but will also have the opportunity to do some couples therapy and group therapy.

 

[kojo]

QUOTE=kojo;5054277]Lots of PsyDs teach, just not in research based universities.

I know of no social workers that do formal psychological evaluations. Does anybody else? From my own experience, I have seen more psychologists managing psychiatric wards and outpatient centers than social workers. I have no hard evidence to back this up.
I

How do you think social workers in private practice bill insurance companies? They may not use testing, but they do perform diagnostic evaluations. Quick Google search-I pasted a description below of a pacticum site for UM social work students.

http://www.med.umich.edu/psych/education/socialw/about.htm
Students will be assigned to one of three outpatient multidisciplinary teams. The student in this practicum will do comprehensive diagnostic assessments and treatment planning, and will provide outpatient psychotherapy for people requesting help with depression, personality disorders and other mental health disorders. The student will treat a wide range of patients, and will learn the theory and practice of various psychosocial interventions, including cognitive-behavioral treatment, interpersonal psychotherapy, dialectical behavior therapy, and brief psychodynamic psychotherapy. The student will primarily provide treatment to individuals, but will also have the opportunity to do some couples therapy and group therapy.[/quote]

Where I live they cannot diagnose. Also, would social workers be considered an "expert witness" with regard to assessment and diagnosis over a psychologist or psychiatrist? I highly doubt it. My point is that psychology offers a lot more in terms of mental health opportunities than social work, in my opinion.

 

[sicologia]

Hey,
So I went to a grad school fair yesterday and talked to a representative yesterday. Apparently, its a 4 year PsyD program with an option for a 5th year APA internship and requires at least a 3.0 gpa and an 1140 on the GRE, but no psych GRE. It costs $36,000 a year!!! It seems like the avg's are low for a doctoral program. Is this program on the level or is this one of hack schools that I keep on being warned about? Anybody have info?

Despite what folks are saying around here, you CAN teach with a PsyD or a PhD. I don't know where people get off on this tangent, but that's a whole different can of worms. I would say that MSPP's requirements are pretty low as well, yet most freestanding professional psychology schools have higher acceptance rates than university depts. of psychology or university-based professional schools.

All in all, the program is certainly a decent program with APA accreditation since 1987. Definitely not a hack school, certainly not a top tier either. Hope you find what you're looking for S.

 

[moxie89]

Since its been about 2 years since the last comment here, anyone have any more RECENT things to say about MSPP? Curious if stats or credibility have changed over time, as this is one of the controversial 'is it good or not?' schools. Thanks!