Male vs. Female Admission?

[david594]

I was just wondering if anyone could comment on the aspects of Male versus females when it comes to vet school admissions standards.

The stats I have found show that it is roughly 3:1 Female to male as the overall ratio for vet schools. How is this reflected in admissions standards? Are the standards pretty equal across the board for male versus female applicants or are males with lower scores more likely to be accepted because they are in the minority?

I know when I look at the Tuft class profile it seems very odd that the class ration is roughly 7:1 female to male which is even farther out of line compared to the ratio of the applicant pool.

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[cyrille104]

are males with lower scores more likely to be accepted because they are in the minority?

No, it was a nice thought though

 

[uppi]

Actually, at certain schools, I believe that males DO have an advantage over females. I posted this in a thread a long time ago, but if you take University of Wisconsin as an example, they are ALL ABOUT diversity. They invite 80 students per year to their class, and they state on their website that only 5-20 students per year will be accepted out of state, with the majority of those students being female, as there are more female applicants. Madison has roughly a 3:1 ratio a female:male applicants. 135 Instate Females applied to Madison last cycle, and 794 applicants from out of state. only about 15 applicants (the max OOS females madison will take any given year) are going to be out of state for a total class size of 58 females. that is about 31% chance for an in-state applicant to gain acceptance (assuming the max OOS students are taken). For males now, you have a total of 32 in state applicants. No more than 5 OOS males are taken every year. 22 males were accepted into last years cycle. Assuming that max OOS students were taken, thats a 53% chance that an in-state Male will get accepted. So yes it is possible that a male with lower stats then a female could get accepted because of gender.

Here are the statistics:
http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/Applicant_Statistics.126.1.html

 

[julieDVM]

This just doesn't happen. Men and women are both held to the same academic standards. Schools are not going to lower their admissions criteria based on gender/race etc.

If you want to get into vet school, get the best grades you can, diversify your volunteer experience, and put together the best application package you possibly can.

The feminization of the profession has been occurring for 15 or 20 years - more women are in vet schools because more women apply. I think its detrimental to have such a unbalanced representation of F:M, but there isnt much we can do about that if men aren't interested in becoming veterinarians.

 

[uppi]

This just doesn't happen. Men and women are both held to the same academic standards. Schools are not going to lower their admissions criteria based on gender/race

While I agree with what your saying, yes both men and women must meet the ADMISSION criteria to gain acceptance just as any other applicant from any other school. Obviously the school will not accept someone with a grade lower than a C in a prereq, etc.

However having said that, lets face it, with as many applicants as there are to vet schools, and as hard as it is to get into a school, especially OOS, Most applicants cannot afford to only meet the "minimum requirements" to gain admission. They must go above and beyond the admission criteria. This holds especially true for females and any OOS applicant for a school like madison. However, males can probably be on the low end of that minimum admission criteria and still gain acceptance if they are IS. Females who have the exact same stats face a much more difficult road to acceptance (at Madison) Males are the new minority.

 

[julieDVM]

While I agree with what your saying, yes both men and women must meet the ADMISSION criteria to gain acceptance just as any other applicant from any other school. Obviously the school will not accept someone with a grade lower than a C in a prereq, etc.

However having said that, lets face it, with as many applicants as there are to vet schools, and as hard as it is to get into a school, especially OOS, Most applicants cannot afford to only meet the "minimum requirements" to gain admission. They must go above and beyond the admission criteria. This holds especially true for females and any OOS applicant for a school like madison. However, males can probably be on the low end of that minimum admission criteria and still gain acceptance if they are IS. Females who have the exact same stats face a much more difficult road to acceptance (at Madison) Males are the new minority.

Having sit on the admissions committee at my school for a couple years now, i simply dont buy this.

Men have to be just as competitive with their grades as women do. They have to be just as competitive with their GRE scores, with their experience, with their references etc... Just because they're men, doesn't mean they get a free ride into vet school. If i was a man i'd be insulted by the insinuation that i wasnt held to the same standard as my female counterparts.

Granting interviews is a numbers game. Every candidate is ranked from 1 to however many applicants there are based on their numbers. At my school, we interview twice as many applicants as we accept. If your name appears above the line drawn across the page, then you get an interview. If it doesn't, then too bad for you. I can also assure you that if all those who qualify for an interview are female, then so be it.

When I said you had to meet the standards, what i meant was you had to meet the competitive standard - not the minimum standard.

 

[cyrille104]

Men don't get affirmative action, sorry.

 

[catlover25]

I recently talked to a male vet that I know about the whole male vs. female vet issue. He said that when he went to vet school (around 30 years ago), his class was mostly males, with very few females because being a vet was a very popular career choice for males back then. He said that now, females are more likely to want to be a vet because of the booming pet industry and popularity of companion animals, which women are more drawn towards (motherly instinct or something?). Anyway, that's just what his thoughts were and I thought I'd share.

 

[lailanni]

I recently talked to a male vet that I know about the whole male vs. female vet issue. He said that when he went to vet school (around 30 years ago), his class was mostly males, with very few females because being a vet was a very popular career choice for males back then. He said that now, females are more likely to want to be a vet because of the booming pet industry and popularity of companion animals, which women are more drawn towards (motherly instinct or something?). Anyway, that's just what his thoughts were and I thought I'd share.

I was talking with some female doctors about the large gender difference -- we don't know why. They supposed that they're less drawn to the field, possibly because it has lower pay than other medical jobs.

I asked asked an admissions person on a school visit - they say more females than males apply - and the females are generally more qualified.

But it's about 50/50 for med school. ....

 

[banditalfi]

I recently talked to a male vet that I know about the whole male vs. female vet issue. He said that when he went to vet school (around 30 years ago), his class was mostly males, with very few females because being a vet was a very popular career choice for males back then. He said that now, females are more likely to want to be a vet because of the booming pet industry and popularity of companion animals, which women are more drawn towards (motherly instinct or something?). Anyway, that's just what his thoughts were and I thought I'd share.

There might be some validity to this. There has been a tremendous shift in the field from LA to SA within the past century. That, coupled with the feminist movement (mainly, that women are now "allowed" to have jobs even if they are considered unfeminine), has finally resulted in more women in vet medicine (and biology, too). I wonder what the breakdown is within the different fields of veterinary medicine. I have a hunch you'll see more men in LA than women, but who knows.

 

[ri23]

That may be true, but it seems like more females are going into all of the medical professions. If you look at a class of doctors just a few years ago it was majority male. Now the classes are 50/50, and many are leaning more females to males.

 

[banditalfi]

That may be true, but it seems like more females are going into all of the medical professions. If you look at a class of doctors just a few years ago it was majority male. Now the classes are 50/50, and many are leaning more females to males.

It's a really interesting topic. We spoke a lot about this in one of my courses - though at the time it was geared more to explaining the disparity between women in bio (large majority women) and women in physics (large majority men). My theory is it's just going to take longer for women to get more involved with physics, but then we'll take over that too and soon men won't have any jobs left... mwahahaha

Or maybe not.

 

[VAgirl]

I have a hard time believing it doesn't play a role at all. By this I don't mean that unqualified men would be admitted to vet schools. I don't believe this in the same way that I don't believe that unqualified females would be admitted into a computer science or physics graduate studies program simply because they are part of a very under-represented group in the field.

I cannot imagine, though, that being a male applying to vet school wouldn't play a role in the decision making process if the adcoms are considering a group of similiarly talented candidates. And since the majority of vet school applicants are female, and some schools are openly trying to seek out diversity, if you have male candidates who are as good as the females, it seems to me they'd have a slight leg up.

 

[banditalfi]

I have a hard time believing it doesn't play a role at all. By this I don't mean that unqualified men would be admitted to vet schools. I don't believe this in the same way that I don't believe that unqualified females would be admitted into a computer science or physics graduate studies program simply because they are part of a very under-represented group in the field.

I cannot imagine, though, that being a male applying to vet school wouldn't play a role in the decision making process if the adcoms are considering a group of similiarly talented candidates. And since the majority of vet school applicants are female, and some schools are openly trying to seek out diversity, if you have male candidates who are as good as the females, it seems to me they'd have a slight leg up.

I agree. And I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing. If there were two identical candidates and already 80% of those accepted are female, then why not accept the male over the female? These candidates would be borderline anyway, so it seems like it would have to be an arbitrary decision as to who to offer admission.

 

[chris03333]

All you have to do is look at the # applied vs # accepted to see if gender is influencing admission.

 

[wivet2011]

Wisconsin- class of 2011: 58 females accepted/929 female applicants = 6%
22 males accepted/206 male applicants = 11%

 

[banditalfi]

Wisconsin- class of 2011: 58 females accepted/929 female applicants = 6%
22 males accepted/206 male applicants = 11%

The part of me that just took stats is screaming "lurking variables!!"

I really don't think numbers tell us much. I would love to sit on an adcom to see how it really functions. For those of you in vet school, do you know of anyone who is involved with admissions and how they got involved?

 

[wivet2011]

The part of me that just took stats is screaming "lurking variables!!"

I really don't think numbers tell us much. I would love to sit on an adcom to see how it really functions. For those of you in vet school, do you know of anyone who is involved with admissions and how they got involved?

Entirely possible, but chris03333 suggested stats, so that's what I gave! FWIW, there are really 22 guys in the class and most of them are IS...

 

[VAgirl]

The part of me that just took stats is screaming "lurking variables!!"

Ok, maybe, if you're looking at numbers for just one school. But if you're looking at numbers across all the schools? Makes a stronger case for the fact that what you're looking at is actually telling you something.

But like you, I'm not saying that this is bad or good. All I'm saying is, if the numbers say it's true, let's at least call a spade a spade.

 

[Bill59]

For those of you in vet school, do you know of anyone who is involved with admissions and how they got involved?

At the school I work at, gender is not a factor in admissions.

 

[banditalfi]

Ok, maybe, if you're looking at numbers for just one school. But if you're looking at numbers across all the schools? Makes a stronger case for the fact that what you're looking at is actually telling you something.

But like you, I'm not saying that this is bad or good. All I'm saying is, if the numbers say it's true, let's at least call a spade a spade.

I hate myself a little for going through all the slides from my course to find this example, but essentially, these numbers don't tell us anything unless we know the whole picture.

Anyway, here's the problem, an example of Simpson's Paradox:

360 men apply to a school, 198 accepted (55%)
200 women apply, 88 accepted (45%)
Overall, it looks like a higher percentage of men were admitted - is this an example of discrimination?

But, the school had two schools:

For the business school:
120 men applied, 18 accepted (15%)
120 women applied, 24 accepted (20%)

For the art school:
240 men applied, 180 accepted (75%)
80 women applied, 64 accepted (80%)

Anyway, as you can see, overall a higher percentage of men were accepted than women, though if you look at the stats for each individual school you can see that it was actually the opposite.

I propose that we could see a similar situation present itself in vet school, be it what field an applicant wants to go into, or state status or something. Anyway, this is why I don't trust the numbers at all.

 

[wivet2011]

I hate myself a little for going through all the slides from my course to find this example, but essentially, these numbers don't tell us anything unless we know the whole picture.

Anyway, here's the problem, an example of Simpson's Paradox:

360 men apply to a school, 198 accepted (55%)
200 women apply, 88 accepted (45%)
Overall, it looks like a higher percentage of men were admitted - is this an example of discrimination?

But, the school had two schools:

For the business school:
120 men applied, 18 accepted (15%)
120 women applied, 24 accepted (20%)

For the art school:
240 men applied, 180 accepted (75%)
80 women applied, 64 accepted (80%)

Anyway, as you can see, overall a higher percentage of men were accepted than women, though if you look at the stats for each individual school you can see that it was actually the opposite.

I propose that we could see a similar situation present itself in vet school, be it what field an applicant wants to go into, or state status or something. Anyway, this is why I don't trust the numbers at all.

You have way too much time on your hands!!

 

[banditalfi]

You have way too much time on your hands!!

I know I don't know what that face is supposed to mean, but there you have it.

Last night I sent my advisor an email asking to go back to school two weeks early to do research because there is nothing for me to do while home. These things happen.

 

[david594]

After posting this I did some more looking particularly at the stats from the AAVMC website and it seemed that across North America the percentage of males applying was 21% and accordingly the percentage of males enrolled in vet schools were almost spot on at 21%.

Would be nice of schools provided breakdown on stats between male and female students. I would also be curious if there are any differences in the average stats of incoming applicants.

 

[MacGyver]

This just doesn't happen. Men and women are both held to the same academic standards. Schools are not going to lower their admissions criteria based on gender/race etc.

If you want to get into vet school, get the best grades you can, diversify your volunteer experience, and put together the best application package you possibly can.

The feminization of the profession has been occurring for 15 or 20 years - more women are in vet schools because more women apply. I think its detrimental to have such a unbalanced representation of F:M, but there isnt much we can do about that if men aren't interested in becoming veterinarians.

Yeah I bet the DVM schools werent using that logic 40 years ago when all the DVMs were men.

Funny how the logic changes over time to suit the liberals who love affirmative action only when it suits them.

 

[ri23]

For those of you in vet school, do you know of anyone who is involved with admissions and how they got involved?

I actually just got involved in the admissions process by talking to the person in charge of admissions. At first she let me and another student sit in on interviews (and answer questions that the interviewees had) and I've actually gotten to do a few interviews. The AVMA is recommending getting students in on the admissions process (as some med schools do). It's an incredibly interesting process.

 

[ri23]

I was reading through the OSU interview posts and I saw that someone stated that they had two students sitting in on their interview. One of them was me (and I recognized a question of mine that you put on there). It was nice meeting you and feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the school.

 

[uppi]

[/QUOTE]Wisconsin- class of 2011: 58 females accepted/929 female applicants = 6%
22 males accepted/206 male applicants = 11%

Yes, but you neglected to mention that the vast majority of accepted males are in state, thus proving my original point that males have advantage over females (only 32 in state applicants last year)

 

[cyrille104]

Yeah I bet the DVM schools werent using that logic 40 years ago when all the DVMs were men.

Funny how the logic changes over time to suit the liberals who love affirmative action only when it suits them.

Oh god. Go back to trolling the pre-med boards.

 

[wivet2011]

Wisconsin- class of 2011: 58 females accepted/929 female applicants = 6%
22 males accepted/206 male applicants = 11%

Yes, but you neglected to mention that the vast majority of accepted males are in state, thus proving my original point that males have advantage over females (only 32 in state applicants last year)

Nope, mentioned that in my second post (had you read further). And I wasn't trying to disprove your point. I agree that males seem to have some sort of advantage...

 

[david594]

I agree that males seem to have some sort of advantage...

Or are just generally more qualified on average than the female applicant pool?


I feel like I am going to get yelled at for this one, but the comment was by no means meant to be offensive.

 

[ri23]

Or are just generally more qualified on average than the female applicant pool?


I feel like I am going to get yelled at for this one, but the comment was by no means meant to be offensive.

Anecdotally, I have not seen that to be the case.

 

[VeganSoprano]

I actually do think gender makes a difference. It won't compensate for being unqualified, but schools do want to build a diverse class as much as their applicant pool allows. Being male probably can make the difference between an acceptance and a waitlist. I highly doubt, though, that it can make a difference between acceptance and outright rejection.

One of the interns I currently work with is a woman whose first name is Tyler. She actually told me straight out that she thinks this influenced her being accepted vs. waitlisted, since the school she graduated from doesn't do interviews and they probably thought she was a man. Now, she's a smart and highly qualified person and absolutely belongs in the vet profession IMO. But seriously, schools are trying to build a class of 100 out of probably 300 or so perfectly qualified applicants. That means that every possible criterion that can be used to differentiate between candidates pretty much has to be used - including gender, ethnicity, professional interest, diversity of life experience, etc. To me, this isn't a bad thing.

 

[Bill59]

I highly doubt, though, that it can make a difference between acceptance and outright rejection.

Then what difference does it make? You're either accepted or you're not.

 

[ri23]

One of the interns I currently work with is a woman whose first name is Tyler. She actually told me straight out that she thinks this influenced her being accepted vs. waitlisted, since the school she graduated from doesn't do interviews and they probably thought she was a man.

You do realize that this probably wouldn't happen being that your sex is listed on your application.

 

[Emio]

It won't compensate for being unqualified, but schools do want to build a diverse class as much as their applicant pool allows.

fwiw, i agree with this.

i also agree with ri23 about the sex on the application thing. i'm sure they look past first names

 

[hoodle]

fwiw, i agree with this.

i also agree with ri23 about the sex on the application thing. i'm sure they look past first names

also, of course, letters of rec are likely to contain insightful pronouns. "he" vs she" and all that. hard to miss.

 

[VAgirl]

Warning...totally off the main topic.

...likely to contain insightful pronouns. "he" vs she" and all that. hard to miss.

And yet somehow people always manage to miss the pronouns I use to refer to my pets (when said people meet my pets and we're talking about them). These people always call any given pet "he" indiscriminately. Why is that?? Argh!

 

[thereservoirdog]

I stumbled upon this article, it talks about how vet schools are starting to address the gender gap.

"at the newly founded College of Veterinary Medicine at Western University of Health Sciences, in Pomona, Calif., the admissions process takes gender into consideration"

http://www.boston.com/news/educatio.../veterinary_schools_turn_increasingly_female/

 

[lailanni]

I stumbled upon this article, it talks about how vet schools are starting to address the gender gap.

"at the newly founded College of Veterinary Medicine at Western University of Health Sciences, in Pomona, Calif., the admissions process takes gender into consideration"

http://www.boston.com/news/educatio.../veterinary_schools_turn_increasingly_female/

An interesting article, thanks for posting it.

Something I found in the article...

--The practice of veterinary medicine is considered more flexible and less time-intensive than some other professional fields, making it attractive to women who hope to have families. --

More flexible and less time intensive? No, I don't think so.... If I had to pick one professional field that was flexible and less time intensive, I'd pick dentistry. My dentist works 4 days a week, and is often off for vacation a good 3 or more weeks in the year.... I think few vets can say that.

 

[VeganSoprano]

Then what difference does it make? You're either accepted or you're not.

Not quite. You can be accepted, waitlisted, or rejected. Waitlisted people are qualified for admission but there isn't room for the school to take every qualified applicant. It's why you have to set yourself apart from other applicants.

 

[Weazlebub]

Three years on an admissions committee and gender has never been a factor in our decisions

 

[philomycus]

Oh no! Another ad com. We've been infiltrated!!


JK

 

[BobDog]

Oh no! Another ad com. We've been infiltrated!!


JK

We may have to create a new highly secret site with lots of passwords and stuff

 

[Weazlebub]

Oh no! Another ad com. We've been infiltrated!!


JK

Just trying to keep the stress-inducing false rumors to a minimum I promise I won't try to figure out who you are!

 

[lailanni]

Just trying to keep the stress-inducing false rumors to a minimum I promise I won't try to figure out who you are!

I am curious, what are the more common false rumors?

Thanks for your advice : )

 

[philomycus]

This is cause for a new and improved avatar to ward off any possible evil.

 

[MickeysPet]

LMAO Philo! I needed a laugh!