Major difference between DO and MD?

[drctother]

You sound just as close-minded (probably more so), and like someone who carries a bigger chip on their shoulder than any "anti-DO" person

Really? How so? Thats my opinion about TWO specialties out of how many? People who are "anti-DO" use the same argument time and time again, its get old.

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[Sugarrush]

You cannot separate OMM from the AOA, and being that the AOA is doing a absolutely horrible job and is light-years behind the organization of the AMA & NBME, it's hard to just criticize them and ignore the shortcomings in OMM.

As people have said, the argument about the need for research-proven efficacy of OMM isn't a new one...it's been rehashed time and time again over the years. So why then do we keep getting the same response that "there's tons of research underway..." It's 2006...at what point is the hardcore research going to come out in support of things like cranial?

I agree with his post, but I wanted to ask specifically, as someone who is more than a little skeptical of things like Cranial, where the heck is this research? It's no longer 2006, it's 2011!

We had the AoA president come speak a while back, and she dodged questions about hard-core published research articles. When we asked about new residency slots, she was thrilled to tell us that they were already moving to open a large number of new residency slots in both Family Practice AND Primary care Pediatrics. She looked confused when we pointed out that there was a surplus of those already and most of us wanted specialties.

Frankly, while I know that the majority of MD's are not members of the AMA anymore, at least they have themselves organized.

Can someone explain why the AoA is stuck in 1950? I hear more about "MD's HATE DO's!" then I do about how to be competitive for residencies or how to prepare for boards...

 

[Pansit]

I agree with his post, but I wanted to ask specifically, as someone who is more than a little skeptical of things like Cranial, where the heck is this research? It's no longer 2006, it's 2011!

We had the AoA president come speak a while back, and she dodged questions about hard-core published research articles. When we asked about new residency slots, she was thrilled to tell us that they were already moving to open a large number of new residency slots in both Family Practice AND Primary care Pediatrics. She looked confused when we pointed out that there was a surplus of those already and most of us wanted specialties.

Frankly, while I know that the majority of MD's are not members of the AMA anymore, at least they have themselves organized.

Can someone explain why the AoA is stuck in 1950? I hear more about "MD's HATE DO's!" then I do about how to be competitive for residencies or how to prepare for boards...

Yeah seriously...most DO's have moved waaaay beyond that except the 70-80 year old DO's who wont go away and still are in charge of things like the AOA.

 

[scpod]

....When we asked about new residency slots, she was thrilled to tell us that they were already moving to open a large number of new residency slots in both Family Practice AND Primary care Pediatrics. She looked confused when we pointed out that there was a surplus of those already and most of us wanted specialties....

First, there have been more than just FP and Peds being created in the past few years. This shows you a quick summary:

http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/111/4/234/TBL5

Second, everyone wants to fly jets when they enter the Airforce, but there are many more supporting positions needed than there are pilots. It doesn't really matter what YOU want as an individual. You have to decide whether you are willing to accept an available slot, or whether medicine might not be the field for you. You are never guaranteed a slot in anything when you enter med school. There will NEVER be enough slots for everyone who wants to specialize.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

In order for the AOA to stay relevant, they will need to vamp up ALL aspects of their residencies, primary care and specialty medicine. Also, not just relegate them to the sticks, either.

 

[carolinablue]

From my little experience....md students always seem a bit nerdy, cut throat, and a bit cocky....DO students are a bit more laid back, friendly..and seem to really like the "helping ppl in medicine" more then the actual science of it. dO students also have usually a diverse background and really have to be more humble to not care what ppl think of osteopathic med.
just my 2 cents...

 

[Torr]

From my little experience....md students always seem a bit nerdy, cut throat, and a bit cocky....DO students are a bit more laid back, friendly..and seem to really like the "helping ppl in medicine" more then the actual science of it. dO students also have usually a diverse background and really have to be more humble to not care what ppl think of osteopathic med.
just my 2 cents...

I think I knew where you were going but you lost me there.

 

[MSmentor018]

It may not matter in some specialties. But in anesthesiology, I see where the poster above was coming from. If you surf the gas boards on SDN, most MD and DO's agree that ACGME/ABA certification is considered the gold standard for clinical practice. You are right that you won't find any unemployed AOA residency anesthesiologists, but in terms of private practice, fellowship opportunities, academic medicine and certain hospital systems, ABA certification may give a person a major advantage.

unfortunate but true, some hospitals will not grant you accreditation due to your residency training, ie; no trauma rotation, neurosurg, not enough central line placements.....etc. I remember reading a thread regarding a DO being denied accrediation in MI

 

[235009]

This argument always cracks me up because I personally think these people who want to match into Ortho or Derm care mainly about the lifestyles, salary etc of being a doctor as opposed to the medicine. I call bluff on anyone who finds epithelial cells or the retina fascinating enough to strictly pick that specialty on the medicine alone.

Thus this whole "wah wah DOs cant match Ortho or Derm (which is false to begin with)" argument is old. So Anti-DO people, any other reasons why DO is so inferior?

Ortho =/= Ophthalmology

that is all .....

 

[carolinablue]

I think I knew where you were going but you lost me there.

I feel like MD students are more obsessed with learning biology, biochem, ect ect then bring obsessed with helping ppl...DO students usually just see memorizing biology and **** as a means to an end. Just my opinion

 

[235009]

I feel like MD students are more obsessed with learning biology, biochem, ect ect then bring obsessed with helping ppl...DO students usually just see memorizing biology and **** as a means to an end. Just my opinion

that's one of the dumbest things i've ever heard but i'm not surprised you think that. not sure how you can make such a generalized distinction between MD and DO students when almost all DO students applied to MD schools as well and most of the rest didn't bother applying because of low numbers so implying that one group is inherently different than the other is silly.

 

[carolinablue]

that's one of the dumbest things i've ever heard but i'm not surprised you think that. not sure how you can make such a generalized distinction between MD and DO students when almost all DO students applied to MD schools as well and most of the rest didn't bother applying because of low numbers so implying that one group is inherently different than the other is silly.

i know its really dumb, but its just a feeling i get...i can't help the feelings i get! call me stupid all u want, ill agree with you...but i can't help it dude. its a comlpete generalizations and there are millionssssss of exceptions...but in general its just what i personally feel. dont be mad at me for what i feel....i dont think its true...but i feel its true...and i cant get mad at you for saying its stupid, but i cant be happpy if someone agrees..thats how feelings are. And it was a MD resident who told me this and I started to see the same thing. I dunno whatever bro who cares anyways, it's just a thought that more than one parson has shared with me

 

[deleted245139]

the difference is...
there is no difference.

You're doing to be the doctor you want to be. There will be a** hole DO's and a** hole MD's, and there will be caring/amazing DO's and MD's. There will be d*ck FM docs, and kind and warm cardiologists.
I have a theory as to the lack of research as well... piggy backing on the wavefront of holistic care in America ("new-age" if you will), DO practitioners can BANK if they use/bill for OMM/Acupuncture/you name it. Insurance pays out blindly for some of this, because they're attractive add-ons to some plans that may attract people to their company. If you do research, and you prove your product to be ineffective, or only moderately effective, insurance will stop paying.
For example, the FDA has no control over claims of the benefits of much of the massive supplement market. If those companies were held responsible for actual data supporting claims of "blahblahblah cures cancer blahblah", then they wouldn't be around long.

Now sure, docs using these things could use a cash practice, sort of day-spa-esque, but at the end of it, their client base will be crushed when people back out because insurance no longer covers it.

Just a crack-pot theory, but as people have pointed out... VERY little research comes out of the AOA, and people don't like to field questions about the situation

 

[DocEspana]

that's one of the dumbest things i've ever heard but i'm not surprised you think that. not sure how you can make such a generalized distinction between MD and DO students when almost all DO students applied to MD schools as well and most of the rest didn't bother applying because of low numbers so implying that one group is inherently different than the other is silly.

I think what he meant to say, if I could perhaps put it more elegantly, was this: he feels that the MD student population has a significantly higher representation of students who are interested in clinical (and non-clinical) research as a large, if not the majority, part of their future career. These people, if one generalizes a lot, tend to be more focused on esoteric elements of obscure mechanisms that wont be relevant to treatment unless they do invent that new drug or treatment modality.

Not that DO schools don't have some of these students, but I do think it would be quite correct to say we have less. I think he is applying the unusual eccentricities of a small but visible subculture of MD students to the entire degree.

 

[MtHoodWood]

At the current trajectory DO's and MD's will soon merge allowing us to never again address the DO/MD question. The MD's will learn some OMT techniques where they will undoubtedly double-blind-placebo-control their hearts out before realizing they are wasting their time researching OMT when they should be treating.

 

[patel2]

At the current trajectory DO's and MD's will soon merge allowing us to never again address the DO/MD question. The MD's will learn some OMT techniques where they will undoubtedly double-blind-placebo-control their hearts out before realizing they are wasting their time researching OMT when they should be treating.

No, this will never happen. AOA leadership prides itself on maintaining it's contradictory "we are separate but equal physicians" but also "more holistic and caring than MDs" philosophy, and they have no interest in merging. Though I do agree there are little differences besides OMT (which most don't end up using) between MD and DO.

 

[TriagePreMed]

No, this will never happen. AOA leadership prides itself on maintaining it's contradictory "we are separate but equal physicians" but also "more holistic and caring than MDs" philosophy, and they have no interest in merging. Though I do agree there are little differences besides OMT (which most don't end up using) between MD and DO.

I wouldn't say never. This change will simply not happen as long as DO's don't complain enough. If they complain enough and the AOA is threatened, or if the MDs start converting degrees like they did back in the day in california, things will change.

 

[thesauce]

I wouldn't say never. This change will simply not happen as long as DO's don't complain enough. If they complain enough and the AOA is threatened, or if the MDs start converting degrees like they did back in the day in california, things will change.

What do they have to complain about? They have equal practicing rights in all 50 states despite lower admission standards for their schools. They should be overjoyed!

 

[Just Joshin]

"DOs receive extra training in the musculoskeletal system, which is comprised of the nerves, muscles, and bones. This training gives DOs a better understanding of how an injury or illness in one part of the body can affect another part of the body; therefore, DOs have a therapeutic and diagnostic advantage."

This is very debatable. Especially considering how packed the average MD program is. Do DO's really have the time to take everything we do and more? It seems pretty unlikely, but I really don't know.

Just from reading threads in allo, I'd say yes. It appears at most MD schools, you guys have 2-4 lectures a day and once or twice a week, you have small groups or clinical stuff. At my DO school, we're generally there from 8-5 most days of the week with lectures in the morning and in the afternoon, clinical, small groups, and OMM.

 

[carolinablue]

I think what he meant to say, if I could perhaps put it more elegantly, was this: he feels that the MD student population has a significantly higher representation of students who are interested in clinical (and non-clinical) research as a large, if not the majority, part of their future career. These people, if one generalizes a lot, tend to be more focused on esoteric elements of obscure mechanisms that wont be relevant to treatment unless they do invent that new drug or treatment modality.

Not that DO schools don't have some of these students, but I do think it would be quite correct to say we have less. I think he is applying the unusual eccentricities of a small but visible subculture of MD students to the entire degree.

 

[Kuba]

What do they have to complain about? They have equal practicing rights in all 50 states despite lower admission standards for their schools. They should be overjoyed!

As a DO grad, I used to agree with you on the admission standards. Objectively, this is how I got into a DO school, ~3.0 GPA 32 MCAT. Obv. my GPA wouldn't allow me to get into a MD school during that cycle. However, recently I've started changing my mind. DO schools are careful, for the most part, to attract candidates that will make very capable physicians. The objective measures of ability are only part of a bigger picture. A lot of my classmates that sucked a@@ on the MCAT, and consequently couldn't get into MD schools, got exceptional USMLE scores, and landed very good residencies despite the bias in the ACGME arena. There are also the students that got into both MD and DO, and chose DO, but that is less than 5 in my class and definitely the exception rather than the norm.

 

[Kuba]

P.s. listening to pre-DO and DO students say that DO's are more compassionate as a group, etc. is one of my biggest pet peeves. Maybe some are more humbled, but MDs and DOs have the same mix of Mother Teresas and Charlie Sheens as the other.

 

[carolinablue]

P.s. listening to pre-DO and DO students say that DO's are more compassionate as a group, etc. is one of my biggest pet peeves. Maybe some are more humbled, but MDs and DOs have the same mix of Mother Teresas and Charlie Sheens as the other.

i completely understand what your saying and i agree with you for the most part...
but i just feel like MD students didn't have to convince schools they really wanted to help people as much because their numbers would do the talking for them....a DO applicant on the other hand is like..."hey i know my mcat isn't that great, but i make up for it by volunteering for 2 years...or i made a clinic for kids, so you know i wanna be a doctor for the right reasons.."
because our numbers are a little bit lower we had to compensate for that by going the extra mile in extra-curricular activities and altruism...all of which build interesting characters...i shouldn't have said that osteopaths care more about helping people....but i should have said that they are more personable and in college we didn't spend as much time with our heads lost in bio books and instead spent time doing other things that normal college kids do...which kind of made us more balanced people...and may also have played a role in getting a bit lower numbers....i dunno man, i know alot of students who went to md schools but really had to sacrifice alot to get there...sacrifices that took a toll on their personalities. conversations with them are sometimes limited....all they would talk about was mcat this and mcat that....medicine is cool, its awesome actually, but it can't be your entire life. anyways im generalizing like a mofo right now too

 

[Torr]

i completely understand what your saying and i agree with you for the most part...
but i just feel like MD students didn't have to convince schools they really wanted to help people as much because their numbers would do the talking for them....a DO applicant on the other hand is like..."hey i know my mcat isn't that great, but i make up for it by volunteering for 2 years...or i made a clinic for kids, so you know i wanna be a doctor for the right reasons.."
because our numbers are a little bit lower we had to compensate for that by going the extra mile in extra-curricular activities and altruism...all of which build interesting characters...i shouldn't have said that osteopaths care more about helping people....but i should have said that they are more personable and in college we didn't spend as much time with our heads lost in bio books and instead spent time doing other things that normal college kids do...which kind of made us more balanced people...and may also have played a role in getting a bit lower numbers....i dunno man, i know alot of students who went to md schools but really had to sacrifice alot to get there...sacrifices that took a toll on their personalities. conversations with them are sometimes limited....all they would talk about was mcat this and mcat that....medicine is cool, its awesome actually, but it can't be your entire life. anyways im generalizing like a mofo right now too

I'm glad you realize this.

You've made so many of these sweeping generalizations that I don't know where to start. You're basing this on your own experience (which is fine) but I'm telling you that your experience is severely limited.

No point in defending your opinion, just try to get out there and get more exposure to.....everything .

MD's don't always care about "the science of it all" as you put it and view areas like biochemistry as a means to an end as well (ie: ever hang out with ortho residents? )

Talk to enough DO's and you're bound to meet a jerk, a scientist, an anti-social hermit/bookworm....enough with this nonsense. Seriously.

 

[carolinablue]

I'm glad you realize this.

You've made so many of these sweeping generalizations that I don't know where to start. You're basing this on your own experience (which is fine) but I'm telling you that your experience is severely limited.

No point in defending your opinion, just try to get out there and get more exposure to.....everything .

MD's don't always care about "the science of it all" as you put it and view areas like biochemistry as a means to an end as well (ie: ever hang out with ortho residents? )

Talk to enough DO's and you're bound to meet a jerk, a scientist, an anti-social hermit/bookworm....enough with this nonsense. Seriously.

Okay ill just wait till I get more experience. This isn't something that I constantly think about, it's just a random thought I'm sure it will change...
Anyways all these arguments I'm getting into on these forums is getting tiring..I'm just expressing my opinion and I get called stupid, inexperienced...i come here to talk to other ppl in my field and just end up feeling like crap. I don't hang with premed students much anymore and I guess there's a reason for that..i just dont care about alott of stuff yall do. Anyways I'm out

 

[DocEspana]

MD's don't always care about "the science of it all" as you put it and view areas like biochemistry as a means to an end as well (ie: ever hang out with ortho residents? )

Orthos: DIY carpenters with big hammers and small prescription pads.

If you wanna bang you hammer against some osteum, no degree is going to modify your dreams.

 

[drctother]

Ortho =/= Ophthalmology

that is all .....

wow I didnt even realize that I wrote that haha should probably proof read my posts

Ortho definitely means orthopedic surgery (from what I understand) lol I meant ophthalmology

 

[MSmentor018]

As a DO grad, I used to agree with you on the admission standards. Objectively, this is how I got into a DO school, ~3.0 GPA 32 MCAT. Obv. my GPA wouldn't allow me to get into a MD school during that cycle. However, recently I've started changing my mind. DO schools are careful, for the most part, to attract candidates that will make very capable physicians. The objective measures of ability are only part of a bigger picture. A lot of my classmates that sucked a@@ on the MCAT, and consequently couldn't get into MD schools, got exceptional USMLE scores, and landed very good residencies despite the bias in the ACGME arena. There are also the students that got into both MD and DO, and chose DO, but that is less than 5 in my class and definitely the exception rather than the norm.

very true, as competition for med school ever increases the gpa and mcat requirement has gone up too. I remember 18-21's mcat getting into DO school. I think that's becoming a legend now.....

 

[DocEspana]

very true, as competition for med school ever increases the gpa and mcat requirement has gone up too. I remember 18-21's mcat getting into DO school. I think that's becoming a legend now.....

>27 (most places are 28) MCATs in the DO schools mean they are 1 MCAT point below a handful of the MD schools. Will we ever overtake MD schools? It'd be nice if we overtook a few (not located in puerto rico), but who really cares. We are right there on the doorstep now anyways. Thats a huge step from 18-20s getting in.

 

[MSmentor018]

>27 (most places are 28) MCATs in the DO schools mean they are 1 MCAT point below a handful of the MD schools. Will we ever overtake MD schools? It'd be nice if we overtook a few (not located in puerto rico), but who really cares. We are right there on the doorstep now anyways. Thats a huge step from 18-20s getting in.

I don't think we'll overtake MD schools in terms of mcat scores, maybe some, but definitely not most. I don't know how much that'll make a difference but at least people can't say "you went DO b/c your grades sucked". yeah my school now is mcat 28 avg. as long as there are determined pre meds and not enough med school spots. the scores will always remain high

 

[patel2]

I don't think we'll overtake MD schools in terms of mcat scores, maybe some, but definitely not most. I don't know how much that'll make a difference but at least people can't say "you went DO b/c your grades sucked". yeah my school now is mcat 28 avg. as long as there are determined pre meds and not enough med school spots. the scores will always remain high

Yeah, while DO MCATs are certainly increasing, so are MDs. Applications are at all time highs almost every year to both, and so as it gets more competitive, stats will increase across the board. I think more of the best and brightest will opt for medicine early in their college career, based on the job security of medicine, especially as people realize how busted the prospects in law and financial fields are.

My guess...within 10 years the average MCAT score for DO creeps up to 30, while it increases to 34 for MD, and both will see slight increases in GPA.

 

[DocEspana]

Yeah, while DO MCATs are certainly increasing, so are MDs. Applications are at all time highs almost every year to both, and so as it gets more competitive, stats will increase across the board. I think more of the best and brightest will opt for medicine early in their college career, based on the job security of medicine, especially as people realize how busted the prospects in law and financial fields are.

My guess...within 10 years the average MCAT score for DO creeps up to 30, while it increases to 34 for MD, and both will see slight increases in GPA.

Likely completely the case. Still, it would be exciting to see us overtake a few of the MD schools in the 50 states. That would be cool and would be an easy way to diffuse a lot of random anti-DO sentiments. But I'm just sort of "typing out loud" here.

 

[thesauce]

DO schools are careful, for the most part, to attract candidates that will make very capable physicians.

The suggestion being that MD schools aren't?

The objective measures of ability are only part of a bigger picture.

I agree and I'm sure any MD admissions comittee would agree as well. At some point the old adage that "DO schools look at the whole picture" has been morphed into "those with lower MCAT scores are more well rounded." I doubt you could really make that claim. I've never looked at the stats (and really don't care to at this point) but I'd wager that the average MD matriculant has as many work, volunteer, and "life" experiences than the average DO matriculant.

A lot of my classmates that sucked a@@ on the MCAT, and consequently couldn't get into MD schools, got exceptional USMLE scores, and landed very good residencies despite the bias in the ACGME arena.

And I saw similar things at my state MD school (and yes, there is at least some bias against lower ranked MD schools in the match). Looking around at my colleagues, I'm not convinced that the MCAT is a great predictor of success on the USMLE.

Please don't feel that this is somehow anti-DO. It isn't. I personally feel this MD vs. DO discussion has been blown out of proportion on SDN. DOs compete in the match alongside MD students and earn their residency positions in the same way. Thus, post match-selection, they're every bit as qualified as their MD-counterparts or they wouldn't be there. Some of my intern co-workers are DOs and I honestly can't remember which ones anymore.

The big challenge is getting both sides to accept their degree and not try and convince the other (or patients) that their degree puts them at some professional advantage (i.e. ability to treat patients) over the other. That's what leads to these debates.

 

[thesauce]

>27 (most places are 28) MCATs in the DO schools mean they are 1 MCAT point below a handful of the MD schools. Will we ever overtake MD schools? It'd be nice if we overtook a few (not located in puerto rico), but who really cares. We are right there on the doorstep now anyways. Thats a huge step from 18-20s getting in.

It'll probably happen with DO schools in highly desirable locations vs. MD schools in less desirable locales. But what does it matter? It's ludicrous to grab for examples like this for the sake of these arguments. All it does is propogate this pointless debate further.

 

[DocEspana]

It'll probably happen with DO schools in highly desirable locations vs. MD schools in less desirable locales. But what does it matter? It's ludicrous to grab for examples like this for the sake of these arguments. All it does is propogate this pointless debate further.

Oh I'm totally with you on all of this, I yell at people on the pre-DO for drinking the "we're different" kool-aid too deeply. I deal with student from all schools through the AMA and 95% of the students I deal with treat me as an equal or a rockstar (some people are very impressed with OMM), but 5% make sure to consistantly remind me that even the best DO school is statistically weaker than any MD school. No thats not an exaggeration. Been told to my face.

But they prefaced it with "no offense, but..." so that made it totally better.

I have no doubts (and I fully expect) there to be a large difference between a Columbia NY student (one of the best) and a Columbia Missouri Student (one of the weakest schools). But as long as there isn't a single DO school that outperforms Columbia Missouri, the people who tell me that we're lower than the lowest MD school are, technically, correct. And I tell them that they are indeed correct (though always adding that it is individual merit that decides careers, and that's what we're all here for anyway: careers.). It would diffuse that one argument that *is* very real and *will* be said to your face at medical conferences. These people are the best and the brightest of their respective schools, but 5% of them are not the most polite. I ponder if we will overtake a MD school not for "conquest" but because this is the one completely true argument that is said to my face and there is no response until we can overtake two or three of the schools on admissions stats, silly as they may be.

Also: yea. I think desirable locales will be the ones who do drive the acceptance stats high enough. After all, given the slow trend towards pushing offshores away from as many opportunities as they currently have the competition for US school will increase (Add in job security and the general trend that all admission metrics tend to go up in time). One has to imagine desirable locations will feel that upward push faster than anywhere else, regardless of the degree offered.

 

[patel2]

Oh I'm totally with you on all of this, I yell at people on the pre-DO for drinking the "we're different" kool-aid too deeply. I deal with student from all schools through the AMA and 95% of the students I deal with treat me as an equal or a rockstar (some people are very impressed with OMM), but 5% make sure to consistantly remind me that even the best DO school is statistically weaker than any MD school. No thats not an exaggeration. Been told to my face.

But they prefaced it with "no offense, but..." so that made it totally better.

I have no doubts (and I fully expect) there to be a large difference between a Columbia NY student (one of the best) and a Columbia Missouri Student (one of the weakest schools). But as long as there isn't a single DO school that outperforms Columbia Missouri, the people who tell me that we're lower than the lowest MD school are, technically, correct. And I tell them that they are indeed correct (though always adding that it is individual merit that decides careers, and that's what we're all here for anyway: careers.). It would diffuse that one argument that *is* very real and *will* be said to your face at medical conferences. These people are the best and the brightest of their respective schools, but 5% of them are not the most polite. I ponder if we will overtake a MD school not for "conquest" but because this is the one completely true argument that is said to my face and there is no response until we can overtake two or three of the schools on admissions stats, silly as they may be.

Also: yea. I think desirable locales will be the ones who do drive the acceptance stats high enough. After all, given the slow trend towards pushing offshores away from as many opportunities as they currently have the competition for US school will increase (Add in job security and the general trend that all admission metrics tend to go up in time). One has to imagine desirable locations will feel that upward push faster than anywhere else, regardless of the degree offered.

it's already happened. Surely some DO schools have higher numbers than howard, meharry, lsu-NO (at least MCAT wise) and some other mid-western/rural state MCATs that are in the high 20s.

 

[DocEspana]

it's already happened. Surely some DO schools have higher numbers than howard, meharry, lsu-NO (at least MCAT wise) and some other mid-western/rural state MCATs that are in the high 20s.

You know. when I scanned through the list of schools i totally missed those because they dont report a total score, they report an "8" or an "8.7" which needs to be x3. Wow. Thats actually good to know.

 

[womp]

One difference is the MD doesn't need to feel insecure about two letters behind his name, hence this discussion.

 

[Kuba]

One difference is the MD doesn't need to feel insecure about two letters behind his name, hence this discussion.

biggest difference

 

[DocEspana]

One difference is the MD doesn't need to feel insecure about two letters behind his name, hence this discussion.

gotta agree there,

 

[Dr Tickles]

One difference is the MD doesn't need to feel insecure about two letters behind his name, hence this discussion.

I agree 100%...

 

[Gabby]

I've never looked at the stats (and really don't care to at this point) but I'd wager that the average MD matriculant has as many work, volunteer, and "life" experiences than the average DO matriculant.

Aren't there more non-traditionals in DO school than MD school? If so, then I'd disagree with you.

 

[MSmentor018]

Yeah, while DO MCATs are certainly increasing, so are MDs. Applications are at all time highs almost every year to both, and so as it gets more competitive, stats will increase across the board. I think more of the best and brightest will opt for medicine early in their college career, based on the job security of medicine, especially as people realize how busted the prospects in law and financial fields are.

My guess...within 10 years the average MCAT score for DO creeps up to 30, while it increases to 34 for MD, and both will see slight increases in GPA.

you're right, for the first time in a very long time, MD's finally opened 3 new med schools last 2 yrs. one even gives free tuition for high gpa/mcat! damn, can you imagine if the standard avg was 34? would that mean ivy league places only take 40's? that's crazy
I can't say I've seen an increase in medicine based on job security but I've definitely it in nursing. I think it's always going to be young college folks opting for medicine straight out of undergrad but us non trads are increasing.

 

[DocEspana]

you're right, for the first time in a very long time, MD's finally opened 3 new med schools last 2 yrs. one even gives free tuition for high gpa/mcat! damn, can you imagine if the standard avg was 34? would that mean ivy league places only take 40's? that's crazy
I can't say I've seen an increase in medicine based on job security but I've definitely it in nursing. I think it's always going to be young college folks opting for medicine straight out of undergrad but us non trads are increasing.

In a lot of senses, if I understand the trends right, the last 15 years law has been the field to go into if you're an intelligent person and have your choice of "highly educated" career paths. Well, law has become oversaturated and finding employment has become a pretty serious concern among the many law school graduates. The fact that a few law school 'diploma mills' really do exist, unlike medical schools were we exaggerate the claim, doesnt help either. I have to assume there will be a pushback of these highly qualified college-age kids into medicine more frequently. Not 1:1 pre-law to pre-med switchover, but an increase nonetheless. But since this law school saturation stuff only became big news last year, its probably a trend towards more serious pre-med applicant that is only starting this year or next.

 

[DrWBD]

it's already happened. Surely some DO schools have higher numbers than howard, meharry.

Those schools are have much higher # of URM students than any DO school. I'm not sure you want to go there (comparing those stats to ours).

 

[shaggy alfresco]

I think the main difference in trainign is probably the 3rd and 4th years. In the DO world, it's wildly variable and too often students are left on their own without much guidance. I know of a student who basically had no inpatient experiences (maybe a couple weeks) the ENTIRE medical school. He 'fell through the cracks' I guess, and didn't realize how big a detriment that would be until he started residency. He was unable to function at the level of other residents (DOs and MDs) and it really hurt him (he was asked to leave the residency..though he eventually got an FP gig somewhere and is doing well now). I think it'd be extremely hard, if not impossible, for MD student to graduate without inpatient experiences.

I think if DO schools fix some of their problems in their 3rd and 4th years with regards to rotations, they will be doing their students a huge service. I have a lot of respect for DO students, as they seem to succeed despite some of the limitations the structure places on them, but IMO it's not an ideal situation. It was his experiences that made me not apply to DO schools this past cycle - even though (I hope) his experiences were rare.

 

[FiremedicMike]

I think the main difference in trainign is probably the 3rd and 4th years. In the DO world, it's wildly variable and too often students are left on their own without much guidance. I know of a student who basically had no inpatient experiences (maybe a couple weeks) the ENTIRE medical school. He 'fell through the cracks' I guess, and didn't realize how big a detriment that would be until he started residency. He was unable to function at the level of other residents (DOs and MDs) and it really hurt him (he was asked to leave the residency..though he eventually got an FP gig somewhere and is doing well now). I think it'd be extremely hard, if not impossible, for MD student to graduate without inpatient experiences.

I think if DO schools fix some of their problems in their 3rd and 4th years with regards to rotations, they will be doing their students a huge service. I have a lot of respect for DO students, as they seem to succeed despite some of the limitations the structure places on them, but IMO it's not an ideal situation. It was his experiences that made me not apply to DO schools this past cycle - even though (I hope) his experiences were rare.

I would think a situation like that is entirely institution based and has nothing to do with DO vs MD. Don't you think there is just as much potential for this to occur at a small community MD program?

 

[Lincoln Brown]

I wanted to search this forum, but the search function is unavailable right now.

Could someone please outline for me the difference between DO and MDs? What sort of jobs/residencies does a DO apply for vs a MD? What is the difference in qualification? Any and all informaiton is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Both MD and DO are the titles of doctors. One can become a medical doctor (MD) or either a doctor of osteopathy (DO). Both licenses allow one to practice medicine and have equally rigorous testing. The differences between an MD and a DO lie primarily ishttp://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-philosophy.htm on the philosophy of how to practice medicine. Both MD and DO has to complete a four-year undergraduate degree, and after the completion of training they have then to choose to specialize into a particular field and study for two to six more years. The doctor who specializes will then take further examinations to be licensed by the board of his or her specialty.

 

[Longshanks]

Both MD and DO are the titles of doctors. One can become a medical doctor (MD) or either a doctor of osteopathy (DO). Both licenses allow one to practice medicine and have equally rigorous testing. The differences between an MD and a DO lie primarily is on the philosophy of how to practice medicine. Both MD and DO has to complete a four-year undergraduate degree, and after the completion of training they have then to choose to specialize into a particular field and study for two to six more years. The doctor who specializes will then take further examinations to be licensed by the board of his or her specialty.

I see you're new around here, but it's Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

 

[duswdav]

i just wanted to point something out, i'm not sure if its been addressed earlier in the thread or not but the title "Doctor" is only an academic title conferred to an expert in their field. while do and md are both called doctor, they also possess the more important title "physician".
saying they're both 'doctors' is like saying a dnp is the same as a do or md.
and we all no that's not true.