M3 Grades

[ophthowannabe1]

I have just started my 3rd year, and so I am running into 3rd year grading for the first time. I did well on Step 1 245+, did decent in the clinical years 25-50%, have quite a few publications (5 including posters…none ophtho yet). And I feel like am a good clinical student, but no rock star.

My issue is that my school's grading scale is pretty restrictive in terms of honor's and even for high pass it is pretty tough. I know it is much harder to get honor's here than at many other schools.

So now I am beginning to worry about my 3rd year grades. If I get mostly Pass this year will it hurt my chances to match ophtho. Will it limit my opportunities?

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[DrZeke]

I have just started my 3rd year, and so I am running into 3rd year grading for the first time. I did well on Step 1 245+, did decent in the clinical years 25-50%, have quite a few publications (5 including posters…none ophtho yet). And I feel like am a good clinical student, but no rock star.

My issue is that my school's grading scale is pretty restrictive in terms of honor's and even for high pass it is pretty tough. I know it is much harder to get honor's here than at many other schools.

So now I am beginning to worry about my 3rd year grades. If I get mostly Pass this year will it hurt my chances to match ophtho. Will it limit my opportunities?

No

 

[OPPforlife]

I like how 245 becomes 245+ lol jusssst kiddding!


No clinical grades don't matter all that much. Just don't piss off any one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ophthowannabe1]

I was under the impression that 3rd year grades are very important, especially surgery and medicine (which is "really important" for many other of the students in my class).

It is just the beginning of the year, but I foresee many rather uniformed evaluations coming my way (plus my fair share of earned "satisfactory"). I watched 1 doc interview 1 patient, and he gave me satisfactory for the week I was working with his colleague…not sure how he got a say in my grade. But it reduces my chances of getting high pass, let alone honors as it brings down my subjective grade.

In any case, I hope you guys are right, but I fear that I'm gonna struggle to make ends meet this year. At least I'll probably still have a shot at matching ophtho

 

[ophthope]

You'll be fine just get some good LORs. That matters more since those people are supposed to know you well. Clinical grades are absurd due to their extreme inter-grader variability anyway. Part of the ridiculousness that is medicine. After this stage is over you'll get graded by your patients, so it never ends and it never gets lets ridiculous. You're going to have more than "a shot at matching."

 

[OphthoPractice]

In terms of grades, it's junior AOA or bust. No one cares beyond that.

You can try to update them with senior AOA if you get it but it's hard to update programs after your app is sent. That's why junior AOA is probably all that matters.

 

[peter2013]

I disagree a little bit. You can update programs with senior AOA or other achievements at any point until they reject your application. The information is especially helpful if they haven't already looked at your application. I'm not sure how much it affected their decision making, but at least a quarter of the programs I applied to had my senior AOA information when they initially reviewed my application.

As with any part of your application, you won't be doomed if it's not great but it helps if you do well. So, don't lose sleep over not honoring, but try your best. And even if you don't honor, your work during the clerkship will help with Step 2 and possibly letters of recommendation.

 

[DrZeke]

I disagree a little bit. You can update programs with senior AOA or other achievements at any point until they reject your application. The information is especially helpful if they haven't already looked at your application. I'm not sure how much it affected their decision making, but at least a quarter of the programs I applied to had my senior AOA information when they initially reviewed my application.

As with any part of your application, you won't be doomed if it's not great but it helps if you do well. So, don't lose sleep over not honoring, but try your best. And even if you don't honor, your work during the clerkship will help with Step 2 and possibly letters of recommendation.

I agree with your AOA comment but I disagree with your second paragraph. My med school didn't even have honors and sometimes residents graded us and sometimes they understood our evals and sometimes they didn't. Some attendings were notorious for never giving a grade below 93 and some attendings thought an 87 was excellent. This grading is subjective.... I just had a med student who was very good but mildly annoying and in your face, but I refused to write negative or constructive/negative comments on their eval, because I know they throw those comments in your deans letter. Point is, I got the impression most programs know that grades are varied and dependent on so many factors. My school attributed only 30% of our grade to the shelf, but whether or not I looked bright eye or bushy tailed and enthusiastic was 50% of my grade. Sometimes it's all a game on a rotation and sometimes hard work is what it's about on others. I think lots of programs can't compare grades they are like apples and organges, but they can compare step 1. And they can read negative comments in a deans letter and say it's a red flag. Don't sweat 3rd year. Keep your head down, work hard, and if you can have that "OMG I'm so happy to be here" look on your face, then that helps. At least in my school it did...

Best of luck. Your step 1 is huge and awesome.

 

[WilburSK]

Reviving an old(ish) thread. 4th year with my clinical years complete…all satisfactories. Either I didn't get good enough on the subjective component or I messed up on the shelf. (to be fair 75% get satisfactory on any given clerkship, so its not like I'm a complete idiot)

246 STEP 1, good relationship with ophtho dept at my school. Decent research, nothing amazing.

Do you think my grades will hurt my chances of matching? How about the top 25 programs? I am considering a year off for research, would that help offset my average performance during my clinical year?

 

[DrZeke]

Reviving an old(ish) thread. 4th year with my clinical years complete…all satisfactories. Either I didn't get good enough on the subjective component or I messed up on the shelf. (to be fair 75% get satisfactory on any given clerkship, so its not like I'm a complete idiot)

246 STEP 1, good relationship with ophtho dept at my school. Decent research, nothing amazing.

Do you think my grades will hurt my chances of matching? How about the top 25 programs? I am considering a year off for research, would that help offset my average performance during my clinical year?

What does your Dean's letter look like? Are their negative comments from any of these clerkships or do they mostly say that WilburSK tried hard and is great to work with?

 

[WilburSK]

Not a single negative comment. Good comments across the board. 70-75% of students don't get HP or H on any given rotation, and I was part of the majority. Usually due to the shelf exam.

I'm thinking that an extra year of research may offset some of my grade deficiencies, so that's why I am keen to do that.

 

[DrZeke]

Not a single negative comment. Good comments across the board. 70-75% of students don't get HP or H on any given rotation, and I was part of the majority. Usually due to the shelf exam.

I'm thinking that an extra year of research may offset some of my grade deficiencies, so that's why I am keen to do that.

I don't think your 3rd year grades matter whatsoever. A research year with strong productivity might push you as a stronger candidate to a very academic and research oriented program. Your numbers should not limit you from matching to a top 25... A lot of matching to a place like that has to do with research, extra curriculars and reference letters and sometimes your home program.

 

[oculod]

Is there a list of what top 25 programs are considered? USnews only has a few, but I would love to hear what SDN members think...

I also think your step score is fine and grades won't matter that much. Did you do any aways?

Reviving an old(ish) thread. 4th year with my clinical years complete…all satisfactories. Either I didn't get good enough on the subjective component or I messed up on the shelf. (to be fair 75% get satisfactory on any given clerkship, so its not like I'm a complete idiot)

246 STEP 1, good relationship with ophtho dept at my school. Decent research, nothing amazing.

Do you think my grades will hurt my chances of matching? How about the top 25 programs? I am considering a year off for research, would that help offset my average performance during my clinical year?

 

[WilburSK]

This is very encouraging to hear! I have been pretty torn up about how I have only gotten Passes. It certainly makes me feel like an idiot. I had glowing reviews on all rotations, but I just didn't seem to hit the shelf standards ever. three times I was 1 pt below the cutoff for high pass. I was afraid I threw my good STEP score down the drain.

So you guys don't think I need to do a research year to augment my weak clinical grades? I am at a midwest school (decent but not great home program), and while I wouldn't mind to stay in the midwest to match, I would much rather go to one of the coasts (particularly mid-atlantic). In order to achieve that goal with weak clinical grades, do you think a research year at a top school would help me?

 

[WilburSK]

Oh and I am on an away in the mid-atlantic now. Plan to do another one at a "safety school" near my home school

 

[123eyes]

I don't think your 3rd year grades matter whatsoever. A research year with strong productivity might push you as a stronger candidate to a very academic and research oriented program. Your numbers should not limit you from matching to a top 25... A lot of matching to a place like that has to do with research, extra curriculars and reference letters and sometimes your home program.

What are you basing these statements on?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20110128/
Clinical grades are listed - by PDs themselves - as the 2nd most important factor in ranking behind interview performance.

 

[DrZeke]

What are you basing these statements on?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20110128/
Clinical grades are listed - by PDs themselves - as the 2nd most important factor in ranking behind interview performance.

Are you sure it's the "grade" or the written eval?

 

[WilburSK]

What are you basing these statements on?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20110128/
Clinical grades are listed - by PDs themselves - as the 2nd most important factor in ranking behind interview performance.

That's exactly what I was afraid of. Does anyone have any experience with not killing 3rd year and still matching? I know that my 3rd year grade hurt me. But my question is how much do I need to compensate.

Is a year of research overkill/will it even help? I know I'll get good letters from strong faculty members, and they haven't mentioned my clinical grades.

 

[DrZeke]

That's exactly what I was afraid of. Does anyone have any experience with not killing 3rd year and still matching? I know that my 3rd year grade hurt me. But my question is how much do I need to compensate.

Is a year of research overkill/will it even help? I know I'll get good letters from strong faculty members, and they haven't mentioned my clinical grades.

Unless you're very interested in academia and have strong feelings about research I think it's overkill.

Don't do a research year just as a resume builder... Do it because you're passionate about your project.

 

[WilburSK]

Ok, final time to pester you guys. I'm not too concerned that I will match (I don't think I should be, right). But I am afraid that my average clinical grades will make me even more limited geographically. Is there anything I can do to fight this?

 

[DrZeke]

Ok, final time to pester you guys. I'm not too concerned that I will match (I don't think I should be, right). But I am afraid that my average clinical grades will make me even more limited geographically. Is there anything I can do to fight this?

Why would that limit you geographically? I'm confused. I think you are over-reacting.

Someone tell me I'm wrong please.

 

[WilburSK]

I have heard conflicting information from my ophtho faculty and dean's office. The ophtho faculty said that I'm fine in terms of matching, though I may not match well. My dean's office said that I should consider applying for internal as a backup…that's why I am reacting the way I am

 

[DrZeke]

I have heard conflicting information from my ophtho faculty and dean's office. The ophtho faculty said that I'm fine in terms of matching, though I may not match well. My dean's office said that I should consider applying for internal as a backup…that's why I am reacting the way I am

Most deans offices know nothing about the ophtho match. If your ophtho faculty think you will match then you will.

However, why did they say you won't match well? And what is their definition of well? The top 20 ranked programs are not the only excellent programs. Also take notice of who the person is that told you this... How involved are they in the match process at your current program? Are they even on the adcom? And remember the adcom is different at each program.

Ask yourself all those questions and remember that sometimes it's just an opinion. 3rd year grades are subjective. Outside of AOA, as long as you aren't bottom of the barrel or have bad comments, i think you are fine. I cannot see you being screwed with your step score...

Remember that a great step score and competitive research can still result in failing the match. Ultimately it's a combination of factors. Just try your best and stop freaking out.

 

[DermViser]

No

 

[DrZeke]

I still stand by this. As far as I could tell when I interviewed there was AOA and not AOA. And red flags on your transcript or no red flags.

 

[WilburSK]

DermViser are you suggesting that it may be difficult for me to match? I am trying to determine whether to apply for internal as a back up…that is the reason for my anal retentiveness.

 

[JayZBlue]

Apply broadly and you'll probably match, unless you bomb the interviews.
Meaningful research year will increase your chances at "top 25."
I always tell people to go all out for ophthalmology if that's what you are really passionate for.

 

[DrZeke]

DermViser are you suggesting that it may be difficult for me to match? I am trying to determine whether to apply for internal as a back up…that is the reason for my anal retentiveness.

OMG dermviser look what your emoticon has done

 

[ophthope]

DermViser are you suggesting that it may be difficult for me to match? I am trying to determine whether to apply for internal as a back up…that is the reason for my anal retentiveness.

Internal medicine as a back up? You trying to ruin your life? I would've done a TY and then lived in the woods and foraged for scraps before I did that. Just apply to TYs and some internal med prelim years. If you don't match Ophtho, a nice TY should give you enough downtime to reapply or figure out another specialty you like or change your goals or whatever.

 

[WilburSK]

I've decided to bite the bullet and do a research year. Next question…when should I take STEP 2? My STEP 1 score is a 246. I'm thinking that I will hold off until later in my ophtho app process as there is a good chance that I will score lower on STEP 2.

Any other thoughts?

 

[dri]

I've decided to bite the bullet and do a research year. Next question…when should I take STEP 2? My STEP 1 score is a 246. I'm thinking that I will hold off until later in my ophtho app process as there is a good chance that I will score lower on STEP 2.

Any other thoughts?

I'm applying this cycle after working on an MPH last year. My plan is to take Step 2 in December. This is what the Iowa guide recommends if you're happy with your Step 1 score. Makes sense to me, but if other folks have heard differently or have a different opinion I'm all ears

Thanks!

 

[Xinlitik]

Is taking Step 2 CS early Jan too late? (CK would be in Nov though) Do programs need to see the pass in order to rank you?