lying to get the job

[littlehooves]

I was just declined a position at a vet clinic. She said my interviews were really great, I did really well and was impressed with everything I did and how the interviews went. Upon further consideration, after re-arranging the schedule, she realized that they would not be able to hire someone who would be going back to school- i.e. they want someone who can commit a longer period of time.

This has happened to me a few times before, and this summer when I was applying for jobs, I said to myself I was going to tell all my interviewers that I was taking a year off and would be going for vet in a year or so. But it turns out I chose the path to tell the truth...and it bit me in the ass AGAIN.

I'm at a clinic right now, but I'm dying to leave for many reasons....

anyways just wondering how many of you guys lied to get a summer job, and how you were able to keep up with that lie the whole time

Looks like i'm going to have to print out some more CVs and make up a new life story to go along with them.


*uuuughhh. sooooooo frustrating! What GREAT news to hear the day before your first exam*.

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[sumstorm]

I haven't lied to get a job, and I think it could really bite you in terms of future references and goodwill. If you have experience, have you considered offering your services to several clinics as a relief assistant? Summer is prime time for family vacations, and while you won't know the procedures and such, if you have the basics down you could probably get enough work to keep yourself busy, gain a variety of experience, and provide a beneficial service to vets that would keep you in a good light. Over the summer I am working a few days at a few different clinics (shifts where they are just 'tight') and also picking up other's vacation days and working on special projects such as converting data between computer systems, updating client files, etc.

 

[GellaBella]

I've never lied to get a job either.

The first vet hospital I tried to get a job at, I told them the complete truth regarding how much I could work (also doing a PhD at the same time) and they were very interested but in the end, they couldn't hire me.

While it was slightly disappointing, they did allow me to shadow there instead so I was still able to get veterinary experience while working around my schedule.

I think its important to tell the truth because you want something that works for both of you. If they need someone long term its not fair to say that you will be there and then leave. Just like if you applied and they said you'd get paid X amount of money but then they ended up paying you less. Just not cool.

 

[littlehooves]

Relief assistant? I'm not sure what that is, and I don't think we have those here....I do have alot of experience, both in the front and back, but up here I don't think clinics hire 'seasonal' staff. Except for the clinics that have had students since they were like 16 and are now in university but come back for the summers.

 

[sumstorm]

a 'relief' is just someone that fills in on days others are off for vacations, PL days, sick days etc. kind of like a substitute teacher. The thing is generally you have to be 'self employed.'

 

[BR549]

I agree with sumstorm, don't lie. I am a firm believer in you reap what you sow. I know how frustrating it is to be turned down for such jobs. I was never able to work with a large animal vet, even volunteer, because they already had so many interns and assistants (they are an endangered species where I live). My advice is along the same lines as sumstorm's. Summer is a very busy time, especially at vet offices with boarding facilities. The vet I work for hired me about a month before school started back. She knew I was pre-vet and I told her my schedule. I worked very hard, cleaning kennels and bathing dogs mostly. I let my work ethic do the talking. She told me to let her know when my breaks were and she would work me into the schedule. I haven't worked there for over a year, and the invitation still stands, especially after I finally got into vet school.

A relief assistant would be almost like an "on call" position. If the office gets really busy, or someone calls in, you fill their shoes. This is an excellent way to prove your work ethic and skills, which might land you a job.

Best of luck! Let us know what happens. Just be sure you don't compromise your ethics, just you can land a job.

sumstorm beat me to the punch!

 

[littlehooves]

Thanks guys, but I really don't think that we have relief assistants up here in Canada. For holidays and vacations- usually the part timers are relied upon to fill those spots. She was nice enough to pass on my resume to the bigger Emerg clinic, I think she felt bad because she pretty much told me I had the job, then realized she couldn't take me on.

 

[aretoo]

Also being from ON (just north of Toronto, you?), I believe that it's partly an economic thing. Clinics that previously have been able to afford summer staff just can't anymore (including one that I used to work at).

But I'm a bit confused. I'm assuming that whatever clinic you're applying to, if you don't get into OVC this year, you're going to want to possibly use them as a reference. Or at least for a future job. If you're willing to lie to get the job (i.e. tell them you'll be there for a year, then leave in Sept) I would think that would hurt your chances of getting a reference. The way I'm seeing this, maybe you don't really need the reference/experience, and maybe it would be better to whatever job comes along, even isn't at a vet clinic? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something, I'm sure you're really just frustrated more than anything. The summer after first year, I was just about to accept a summer job at Wonderland when I lucked out with a position at a small animal clinic, lol. PM me if you want.

But I agree with everyone else. Don't lie. The veterinary community (especially in a place like southern ON) is like the horse world - it's too small for something like that to not get around, lol. I wouldn't do it.

Good luck finding a job though, and with your OVC application.

 

[littlehooves]

lol...oooh the horse world....

But lets talk in terms of non veterinary related jobs.... waitressing/serving is such a high turn over job! I would not lose sleep at night knowing that I will be leaving in the Fall or Winter! Or hey, McDonald's is always hiring !!!!!!!!

How have you guys been able to maintain well paying summer jobs knowing you'll be going back in the fall- I'm going to attempt to answer my own question here and predict that alot of you take to 'returning positions' as in you have developed a long, great relationship with them

 

[StealthDog]

No kidding- the vets at the clinic that you lie to will be future colleagues. Do you really want to see them at conferences in the future and have them recognize you as the person that lied and left them short-staffed at the end of the summer?

Don't burn bridges! The vet world is way too small for that.

 

[bunnyslippers]

I've lied about the whole taking a year off from school thing, but for silly little summer jobs like making coffee and hostessing... not that it's anything to brag about doing.

For those positions it worked, but I definitely wouldn't do it for a "real" job, especially one in the vet field where these people will someday be your colleagues (and may potentially have some not so nice things to say about you).

Good luck with your search for a student friendly place, it's sooooo hard finding a summer job!

 

[sumstorm]

I worked summers as a welder, a waitress, a mail clerk, and a farm/field hand. Generally I worked a minimum of 2 jobs a summer. Notice that there wasn't a single vet position in there. I couldn't afford the lower wages (I cleared the best money waitressing at truck stops in the evening, while working as a welder in the mornings, waitressed some weekends.)

I actually NEVER worked for a vet until Aug 2008. I assisted with kennel work at a vet clinic as a child (mother was a surg tech & groomer) and helped the LA vet as a child on the farm, I worked with a vet (coworker) for 3 years post college at a zoo. I worked for vets around the world while doing research (but did not include it in vet experience.) Started obs at vet clinics in march 2008.

 

[aretoo]

haha, PM me, depending on where in ON I could find you some horsey jobs.

But ya, your answer pretty much summed it up for me. I have some random stories too though, last summer I worked on a horse farm in NZ. But ya, usually returning to the vet clinic or doing summer camp at my barn, x a lot of summers lol. This year I am working at OVC.

 

[VAgirl]

I'm not 100% sure of the situation. (To the OP, are you definitely going to school in the fall or are you still waiting to hear back as to whether or not you'll be entering school in the fall?)

But I'd like to add what I think is a very important comment. There is a HUGE difference in my opinion between lying and offering up too much information. If you're interviewing somewhere and you know you are wanting to go back to school in a year but they don't ask you what your expectations are for the job, how long you'll be there, etc., then you can just not tell them a piece of information that they didn't even ask for in the first place. I would say this is especially true if you don't know what your plans are for sure. If you're applying but haven't heard from anywhere, how do you know you won't still be there? But that's not what they'll hear...they'll hear "I likely won't be here and I'm more headache than I'm worth." Which you know isn't true.

Now, if you know your plans for sure and it's only 3 months away, say, that's somewhat of a different scenario and you'd have to think carefully about what seems right to you.

Other situations I can think of include taking a summer job and having some vacation time planned, but not telling them about it until after they've hired you. I don't see anything wrong with that in the general sense. I'm sure there are special circumstances where it wouldn't be appropriate. So I'll stop giving specific examples. My overall point is that there is a difference between lying and not telling someone more information than they asked for. The former is wrong, the latter is just what makes sense sometimes.

 

[littlehooves]

yeah I haven't heard back from anything yet, but I only sent my applications in at the beginning of March. So in the interview I said exactly that- I may be gone for September, could possibly be January, or I could end up staying so everything is really up in the air. I remained honest lol- but I didn't straight up say "I'm gonna be outta here in 4 months baby!!!"

To aretoo: I think I already have you on Facebook....lol when you mentioned the horse farm in NZ...ummm unless there are more people who do this then I think lol. Anyways I PM'd you already, maybe it didn't send lol. ANd oh yeah, i post as "littlehooves" on FVC too so maybe that might ring a bell...

 

[bunnity]

Definitely don't lie.
Last summer I did an unpaid internship with the vets at a shelter, an unpaid internship at a wildlife center, and worked close to full time at my money-job. It was really hectic, but I got experience and made money, both of which I had to do. I think if you need money, get a money-job. If you need experience, work at a vet's for free. If you need both, do both.

And I don't think relief work is just an American thing. I haven't heard personally of any relief techs here in PA but that doesn't mean it's not possible for someone to do! I think you would just contact clinics and tell them you are available for whatever shifts and outline your level of experience. You never know when someone is going to get hurt / sick, quit, move, want a vacation.

 

[VAgirl]

yeah I haven't heard back from anything yet, but I only sent my applications in at the beginning of March. So in the interview I said exactly that- I may be gone for September, could possibly be January, or I could end up staying so everything is really up in the air. I remained honest lol- but I didn't straight up say "I'm gonna be outta here in 4 months baby!!!"

Then in my opinion, unless they ask you how long you intend to be with them, I wouldn't say anything. (Obviously, this would apply to the next place you interview at because the current one seems to be a done deal.) The truth is you don't know anything definitive to tell them, so why guess? If they ask you about your future plans, you can say "I'm hoping to go to vet school down the road."

Obviously, if you don't feel comfortable doing this, then don't. But what they're trying to do is look out for themselves. You're are allowed to do the same. You do it without lying but also without laying all of your cards on the table. It's very similar to what happens in a salary negotiation. You'd be willing to take $10/hr for example, but you don't tell them that, you ask them for $11.50/hr. If they knew you would accept $10, they'd offer you $10 and no more. It's the way business works.

 

[jglovicz]

I would be completely honest with the clinics. These are people that you may want ask for letters of rec and they will be your future colleagues. Personally, I would feel like I was taking advantage of people who are able/willing to advance my career.

 

[VAgirl]

I would be completely honest with the clinics. These are people that you may want ask for letters of rec and they will be your future colleagues. Personally, I would feel like I was taking advantage of people who are able/willing to advance my career.

It's not that I disagree with you, it's just that I feel like everyone seems to view a clinic hiring you into a vet related job as granting you a favor. They're hiring you. They will pay you money to perform work and help make them money. It just so happens that this will help you achieve goals that you want, too, but that is true of all jobs. You gain experience, knowledge, skills, and it helps you get promotions or better jobs. Or in this case maybe a letter of recommendation (although the OP didn't even say for certain she needed one).

I honestly don't feel that any of that means you have to tell them your life plans so they can decide whether or not it's most advantageous for their clinic. Perhaps the OP's timeline is a little short and it's not the best example, I don't know. But I think everyone needs to realize that you do not owe any employer a full explanation of how long you plan to be with them and what you hope it will help you achieve. Not tell them this information if not asked about it is NOT lying. Period. If they needed to know, they would have asked.

 

[hopefulvet21]

I agree VAgirl. I got hired at a clinic one january, and knew I might not stick around to replace another tech that was leaving in August. I ended up not being able to work fall semester, and I told the vet far in advance and expressed sincere apology. I think it is fine if you let them know far in advance and don't peace out a week after telling them. I gave her 2-3 months to find someone else, because I knew she was busy and there weren't a lot of people for the job. Even after telling her, she still wrote me a nice recommendation letter.

Instead of starting another thread, I thought I would just ask a somewhat relevant question here. I never really sent a Thank You letter to the vet that wrote my LOR, or the other two vets who let me volunteer/shadow them. I definitely thanked them verbally more than once, but I feel a nice letter might be a good thing to send to let them know I got into school and update them. Is it sort of water under the bridge by now? I haven't spoken/contacted them for months...but I thought I should send something since I may want to return to NYC for an internship or work in the future. Am I stressing too much about it? Is it a big deal if I don't send an update/late thank you?

 

[DVMorBust]

It's not that I disagree with you, it's just that I feel like everyone seems to view a clinic hiring you into a vet related job as granting you a favor. They're hiring you. They will pay you money to perform work and help make them money. It just so happens that this will help you achieve goals that you want, too, but that is true of all jobs. You gain experience, knowledge, skills, and it helps you get promotions or better jobs. Or in this case maybe a letter of recommendation (although the OP didn't even say for certain she needed one).

I honestly don't feel that any of that means you have to tell them your life plans so they can decide whether or not it's most advantageous for their clinic. Perhaps the OP's timeline is a little short and it's not the best example, I don't know. But I think everyone needs to realize that you do not owe any employer a full explanation of how long you plan to be with them and what you hope it will help you achieve. Not tell them this information if not asked about it is NOT lying. Period. If they needed to know, they would have asked.

Yes!

There's a reason jobs tell you how much notice they want before you leave.

Chances are, turnover's high enough or they've had enough experience with other people leaving that they're going to be a lot less broken up about it than you are. And if it is really important to their decision, they'll ask.

 

[VAgirl]

Instead of starting another thread, I thought I would just ask a somewhat relevant question here. I never really sent a Thank You letter to the vet that wrote my LOR, or the other two vets who let me volunteer/shadow them. I definitely thanked them verbally more than once, but I feel a nice letter might be a good thing to send to let them know I got into school and update them. Is it sort of water under the bridge by now? I haven't spoken/contacted them for months...but I thought I should send something since I may want to return to NYC for an internship or work in the future. Am I stressing too much about it? Is it a big deal if I don't send an update/late thank you?

No one ever dislikes a thank you. Send it now, they'll still appreciate it. And I am sure they would love it if you included an update in your note. They thought highly enough of you to write a rec...they'll want to hear where you got in, where you're going, and how you're doing. All the vets I used to work with seem to really like to hear about my progress through vet school...lets them reminisce a little bit.

 

[aretoo]

lol, I didn't get your PM, not sure why. haha. FB me then I recognized your name from FVC but I cant remember your real name lol, sorry, unless I am getting you confused with someone else. But I'm pretty sure it is me, unless you are thinking of my friend who worked at the same farm, but she does not want to be a vet. Are you at U of G right now?

 

[aretoo]

Instead of starting another thread, I thought I would just ask a somewhat relevant question here. I never really sent a Thank You letter to the vet that wrote my LOR, or the other two vets who let me volunteer/shadow them. I definitely thanked them verbally more than once, but I feel a nice letter might be a good thing to send to let them know I got into school and update them. Is it sort of water under the bridge by now? I haven't spoken/contacted them for months...but I thought I should send something since I may want to return to NYC for an internship or work in the future. Am I stressing too much about it? Is it a big deal if I don't send an update/late thank you?

Sorry, I didn't see your post before I wrote my last one. Definitely, I agree, better late than never Letting them know that you got in is a good idea, I am sure they'll appreciate that!

 

[pawprints]

No one ever dislikes a thank you. Send it now, they'll still appreciate it. And I am sure they would love it if you included an update in your note. They thought highly enough of you to write a rec...they'll want to hear where you got in, where you're going, and how you're doing. All the vets I used to work with seem to really like to hear about my progress through vet school...lets them reminisce a little bit.

I 100% agree...One vet in particular that I work with is always getting thank you letters and updates from students he wrote ref letters for...He puts them onto a bulletin board in his office, saying that it makes him pleased to know he's helped these people achieve their dreams...

Congrats on getting in!

 

[WildlifeSaver]

When I got the position for the aquarium for the fish and inverts team, I didn't lie to them, but they never asked a very deep amount of questions. They asked me if I can at least put a year in and I told them I could. I might be shy of a year by just a few months, but I didn't tell them that. They also asked me where I was applying to schools and I just said Rutgers and a few others and they didn't ask what the few others were. In this case, like VA said, is not telling them more information then they asked.

I never lied, 1) I just didn't know when I would start (to at least put in a year and if I was taken when I wanted this a year and a half ago I would of had more time already in) 2) They never asked to see where I would be over a year

As of right now, I might be getting more hours for this position and going in different days to watch the physicals so I am showing I am dedicated. Hopefully, they don't hate me in the end when I need their help.

Even though this is a volunteer opportunity, they do not take careless people seriously and try to only take people with experience first. Out of 1,000 applications, I was lucky to get a spot out of 4 people interviewing after showing them for one year by calling and expressing interest. It is difficult to train someone and having a year experience is good. These people will maybe be their future staff b/c they know the ropes. Alot of volunteers do become the staff after sig amount of experience.

 

[littlehooves]

Well to end the story from my initial post.... basically both hospitals (they are sister hospitals) said that because I may not be here within the next 4 months, they aren't going to hire me. Training will take at least 3 weeks or so, and so that only leaves 3 or so months of my time with them (if I leave). I explained to her that its all up in the air right now, not really sure which way the ball will roll, and she seemed very sincere- but said if for some reason I don't hear back from any vet schools, then call her back in the fall and I'll be on top of the 'wait list' otherwise offered a position.

Better then nothing I suppose, but also to add, I have already applied to vet school and obviously more experience doesn't hurt- this summer I want to actually work and have my priority as making money. In the past summers I always sacrificed good pay for experience- and I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about . Last summer I prepared for the MCAT so I didn't make as much as I could have. I am planning on moving out in the fall, so I have to save up for that. And just to add, I currently have plenty of great references- but either way an earlier poster made a good point about how small the veterinary world is

So I didn't lie.

HELLO waitressing!

 

[aretoo]

haha, sounds good, good luck with applications, hopefully I will get to meet you in person in the fall!! (I will be at Guelph whether or not i get into OVC)