Logistics of residency interviews during M4

[90sportsfan]

Long-time lurker, first time poster. Also, apologies in advance if this is the wrong sub-forum to post this question.

I will be a M3 next year, so this is more of a question for mental preparation, but I’m wondering if anyone can describe what it is like logistically to interview as a M4. I’m sure this will become clearer later, but it is hard to wrap my head around, so I figured I’d ask just to get a sense.

Although this could definitely change, I’m interested in applying to radiology residencies. I am assuming I will also need to apply for programs for prelim year (i.e. internal medicine).

Hypothetically, if I were to get 10 interviews for radiology residencies and 10 interviews for prelim medicine programs (just making these numbers up), that would be 20 interviews- which would mean 20 flights, 20 hotels, and more than 20 days missed as a M4….

This seems like a logistical nightmare!

I guess my questions are: 1) how do you plan for this? 2) After you get interview offers, do you then dwindle your list down to more manageable numbers (a handful of programs that you are interested in and some safety programs)? 3) Are M4 rotations very flexible around interviewing? 4) do most people spread the interviews out throughout the year (maybe 1 per week) or do you take weeks off at a time to do multiple interviews? 5) how does taking off so much time for interviewing impact your M4 rotations, grades, and most importantly learning?

Sorry, I tried doing a search for this, but didn’t really find exactly what I was looking for. Just trying to mentally plan ahead to know what to expect as a M4. I hope my general questions are clear.

Thanks in advance!

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[gutonc]

Long-time lurker, first time poster. Also, apologies in advance if this is the wrong sub-forum to post this question.

I will be a M3 next year, so this is more of a question for mental preparation, but I’m wondering if anyone can describe what it is like logistically to interview as a M4. I’m sure this will become clearer later, but it is hard to wrap my head around, so I figured I’d ask just to get a sense.

Although this could definitely change, I’m interested in applying to radiology residencies. I am assuming I will also need to apply for programs for prelim year (i.e. internal medicine).

Hypothetically, if I were to get 10 interviews for radiology residencies and 10 interviews for prelim medicine programs (just making these numbers up), that would be 20 interviews- which would mean 20 flights, 20 hotels, and more than 20 days missed as a M4….

This seems like a logistical nightmare!

I guess my questions are: 1) how do you plan for this? 2) After you get interview offers, do you then dwindle your list down to more manageable numbers (a handful of programs that you are interested in and some safety programs)? 3) Are M4 rotations very flexible around interviewing? 4) do most people spread the interviews out throughout the year (maybe 1 per week) or do you take weeks off at a time to do multiple interviews? 5) how does taking off so much time for interviewing impact your M4 rotations, grades, and most importantly learning?

Sorry, I tried doing a search for this, but didn’t really find exactly what I was looking for. Just trying to mentally plan ahead to know what to expect as a M4. I hope my general questions are clear.

Thanks in advance!

Tens of thousands of M4s before you have figured it out. You will too.

Most people will batch interview trips. So you'll take a week or 3, take a few flights and knock out 5-10 interviews. Since you'll be doing prelims as well, many of them will be in the same cities/hospitals as the advanced program so that will be easy. And there are also designated prelim spots that are more or less guaranteed in some programs for some advanced matches. If you live in a densely populated area (like the NE or Mid-Atlantic), you can easily knock out 5-10 interviews with day trips and either public transportation or your personal vehicle/rental car. I was a student in NYC and did 8 (of 18) interviews with my own car or the subway. I took a trip to the Midwest and hit up 6 more in a single 9 day trip. The rest were one-off trips or a couple of interviews at a single trip.

Finally...I totally LOL'd at this question:

how does taking off so much time for interviewing impact your M4 rotations, grades, and most importantly learning?

Once you finish your Sub-I or elective in your specialty, your entire job as an M4 is to Match. If your school doesn't support that, name it and shame it.

Why not ask your about to graduate M4s (they have nothing else to do right now) how they managed it?

 

[deleted50541]

This is probably a better question for the medical student forum or even in the radiology forum since those folks have just gone through a similar process.

From a general strategy standpoint:
1) Look at the programs you're interested and start getting an idea on their invite dates. Make a spreadsheet to help you organize ahead of time. Search on this site for last years interview dates.
2) Yes, you'll need to constantly re-evaluate your list of interview invites as more come in. Programs that you really are not interested in will go by the wayside first as you prioritize your other invites. Time, money, and fatigue eventually set a limit on the number of programs you physically visit.
3) My school was pretty flexible with interviews during 4th year. You should talk with other fourth years in your school to get a better idea of their experience.
4) You don't have usually have the luxury of taking weeks off to interview, but try to schedule multiple interviews in the same region if possible such as NYC.

 

[LucidSplash]

Agreed, post belongs in med student forum. You’ll have all the recently matched M4s who can tell you what to expect and those who are new residents.

 

[LucidSplash]

Also entirely possible that the process may look different in the post Covid era. I know a lot of programs are considering continuing with video interviews. But you’re talking about something that (for you) won’t happen until Fall/Winter 2021. A little hard to predict that far out right now.

 

[smq123]

Agreed, post belongs in med student forum. You’ll have all the recently matched M4s who can tell you what to expect and those who are new residents.

Agreed; moved thread to the Clinical Rotations forum.

 

[90sportsfan]

Thanks so much guys! These answers are already helpful! Realizing that all have gone through this and have managed is helpful. I was definitely planning on talking to M4s I know in-person, figured I'd just get a little preview. I appreciate moving this to the correct forum too. Thanks again!

 

[90sportsfan]

Just bumping this thread to get a sense from graduating M4s to get a perspective of what interviewing was like. How many interviews did you actually have? I am interested (right now at least) in hopefully applying to Rads programs and would like to do an internal medicine prelim year. Should I expect 15-20 interviews for each (i.e. a total of about 40 interviews). That seems like a lot of interviewing and time away. Just curious from graduating M4s what the logistic of interviewing was really like since you all just went through this. I'm a rising M3 so I will definitely get the inside details from classmates and rising M4s this year, but just wanted to get a better understanding now.

 

[Naruhodo]

My guess is that as lucidsplash posted above, interviews are likely to be moved online. In some ways I'm happy (this will save me and others thousands of dollars) in others I'm worried that it will be hard to make as strong and impression and/or get a real feeling for a place. I'm personally hoping maybe for some kind of hybrid - like do video interviews in the fall and be invited to second looks in Jan-Feb. If it had really good vibes from the video interviews at a few of my top picks maybe I could cut down my travel to maybe just 3 trips to check out maybe my top 5-10 programs, and I feel like that would be a good compromise.

 

[SurgDoc95]

My guess is that as lucidsplash posted above, interviews are likely to be moved online. In some ways I'm happy (this will save me and others thousands of dollars) in others I'm worried that it will be hard to make as strong and impression and/or get a real feeling for a place. I'm personally hoping maybe for some kind of hybrid - like do video interviews in the fall and be invited to second looks in Jan-Feb. If it had really good vibes from the video interviews at a few of my top picks maybe I could cut down my travel to maybe just 3 trips to check out maybe my top 5-10 programs, and I feel like that would be a good compromise.

I'm definitely on board for a second look type of thing. I doubt it could be enforced, but it would be nice if programs were to narrow their rank lists down to their top candidates on their lists, and vice versa, and invite those people back for another mini interview before ROL lists are due. Put a cap on how many of these second look type interviews you can attend and hopefully you'd have a better understanding of if/where you were likely to match. Probably not happening, but one can dream.

 

[cookiegrub]

^ putting a cap on an already limited number of seats doesn't seem like a good idea. In the end, the candidate is likely to suffer because programs can invite quadruple or more times the second-lookers (really the interviewees) as they want. If they decide to not rank you, you have to rely on ranking programs where you did not show up...which means if they had a second look event and you weren't there...that program will clearly not rank you or rank you higher than someone who actually did attend.
I know PDs read the forums here, so I really hope that if they try a second look type thing in early next year, I wonder if it would be alright if they go through their internal selection of candidates from the fall interviews and invite some back but also not put any formal restrictions on how many programs we can see. I have come across a lot of 4th years who changed their rank order list after visiting programs they never thought they knew or liked. That experience is already being taken from us...to punish us further by imposing caps on physical travel does not seem justified as I understand that the fall filtration probably will have done a fair bit of sorting anyways. Remember, putting caps on video interviews in the fall seems fair to an extent because of how applicants will abuse the ability to not have to physically travel. Second-looks will require physical travel so that is already a restriction for some financially....
Also if this were to happen, I would really hope that applicants get a heads-up beforehand. Ultimately, some of us can't even take time off from our rotations because of what the policies are in place. For example, I have already selected rotations where I am comfortable taking as many days off as it's feasible with the situation in the fall...my spring on the other hand is packed with requirements that I cannot dodge. Many may not be in the same predicament but because this situation is unprecedented and we are already seeing a lack of foresight in how things are being handled currently, I hope this provides insight into perspectives lesser represented. Currently, the way things are running, even though people are saying this is leveling the playing field, it really is leveling the playing field for top/mid-tier MD schools only.

 

[SurgDoc95]

^ putting a cap on an already limited number of seats doesn't seem like a good idea. In the end, the candidate is likely to suffer because programs can invite quadruple or more times the second-lookers (really the interviewees) as they want. If they decide to not rank you, you have to rely on ranking programs where you did not show up...which means if they had a second look event and you weren't there...that program will clearly not rank you or rank you higher than someone who actually did attend.
I know PDs read the forums here, so I really hope that if they try a second look type thing in early next year, I wonder if it would be alright if they go through their internal selection of candidates from the fall interviews and invite some back but also not put any formal restrictions on how many programs we can see. I have come across a lot of 4th years who changed their rank order list after visiting programs they never thought they knew or liked. That experience is already being taken from us...to punish us further by imposing caps on physical travel does not seem justified as I understand that the fall filtration probably will have done a fair bit of sorting anyways. Remember, putting caps on video interviews in the fall seems fair to an extent because of how applicants will abuse the ability to not have to physically travel. Second-looks will require physical travel so that is already a restriction for some financially....
Also if this were to happen, I would really hope that applicants get a heads-up beforehand. Ultimately, some of us can't even take time off from our rotations because of what the policies are in place. For example, I have already selected rotations where I am comfortable taking as many days off as it's feasible with the situation in the fall...my spring on the other hand is packed with requirements that I cannot dodge. Many may not be in the same predicament but because this situation is unprecedented and we are already seeing a lack of foresight in how things are being handled currently, I hope this provides insight into perspectives lesser represented. Currently, the way things are running, even though people are saying this is leveling the playing field, it really is leveling the playing field for top/mid-tier MD schools only.

Very good points I didn't necessarily think of. As a whole, this scenario protects upper tier MD students and leaves lower tier MD schools and the vast majority of DO students sans maybe the 3 or 4 DO schools with home programs, at a big disadvantage. Hopefully the doom and gloom scenario of all virtual interviews and no aways for anybody won't happen.

 

[90sportsfan]

My guess is that as lucidsplash posted above, interviews are likely to be moved online. In some ways I'm happy (this will save me and others thousands of dollars) in others I'm worried that it will be hard to make as strong and impression and/or get a real feeling for a place. I'm personally hoping maybe for some kind of hybrid - like do video interviews in the fall and be invited to second looks in Jan-Feb. If it had really good vibes from the video interviews at a few of my top picks maybe I could cut down my travel to maybe just 3 trips to check out maybe my top 5-10 programs, and I feel like that would be a good compromise.

Great points! Fortunately for me, I am a rising M3, so I am hopeful that by my M4 things will be much more normal.
You bring up an important point that I didn't think about. In addition to the disadvantages of potential online interviews; I think a big disadvantage for applicants this year is not being able actually visit programs physically to get sense of what the program is actually like. I think programs could do selective, in-person visits for fewer, finalist candidates after initial online interviews (although not sure how that would impact the timeline for match).

 

[Naruhodo]

I hear what you're saying @cookiegrub, but this whole process has gotten out of hand and I feel like if programs and applicants were a little more honest with each other about where one another stand we'd all be better off/ less crazed. I think programs should extend the same number of interviews they normally would but give the option (or in some cases require) those interviews be done remotely. This still gives a long-odds applicant the chance to wow their interviewers (though I know this is probably harder to accomplish over Zoom rather than in person, but it's something) and a program the chance to woo applicants they're most interested in.
Then in Dec/Jan. (still considered part of interview season for most folks) invite your top candidates (say no more than 3x the number of spots you have) to come for a second look. If you get one of these invites you know the odds of matching at said program are good, the pressure is off, and it's really mostly just about assessing fit. Then applicants have to pick their top programs (generally top 5, but possibly up to 10 depending on specialty) to actually visit in person. Yes, you could miss out on an amazing program that you just never visited, but I'm not convinced that this would be any worse than the system we currently have.

 

[ciestar]

Just bumping this thread to get a sense from graduating M4s to get a perspective of what interviewing was like. How many interviews did you actually have? I am interested (right now at least) in hopefully applying to Rads programs and would like to do an internal medicine prelim year. Should I expect 15-20 interviews for each (i.e. a total of about 40 interviews). That seems like a lot of interviewing and time away. Just curious from graduating M4s what the logistic of interviewing was really like since you all just went through this. I'm a rising M3 so I will definitely get the inside details from classmates and rising M4s this year, but just wanted to get a better understanding now.

Well, I had 16 interviews. I took half of november, all of december, half of January off. I was only allowed three interviews per four week rotation otherwise.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Well, I had 16 interviews. I took half of november, all of december, half of January off. I was only allowed three interviews per four week rotation otherwise.

Your school gives you two months off?

 

[ciestar]

Your school gives you two months off?

We have 12 weeks of flex time. So, yes.

 

[Ho0v-man]

We have 12 weeks of flex time. So, yes.

Holy crap I only get 4 weeks.

 

[Naruhodo]

I had an informational interview with the program director at one of of the residency programs I'm most interested him. (No, you don't have to be doing this, I just happen to know this person). Even though they are in one of the states that is technically opening up the PD confirmed that they are almost certainly doing online-only interviews next fall. This is just one program, but I suspect others will do the same.