Living as a US physician in S. Africa. How hard?

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Megalofyia

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Does anyone know the rules for emmigration into S. Africa? After I finish medical school and residency I would love to move to Africa to live for a while. Is it at all similar to moving to the States?

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Originally posted by Megalofyia
Does anyone know the rules for emmigration into S. Africa? After I finish medical school and residency I would love to move to Africa to live for a while. Is it at all similar to moving to the States?

not really. I would contact them but I would have a feeling you might have some problems. Even though S.Africa has a doctor shortage your residency in the US is shorter than theirs. This will give you some problems....but who knows they may have relaxed their policies since they have such a shortage of docs.
 
Does it help if I come as a European citizen instead of US?
 
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do you mean the EU when you speak of "European citizen"? i don't think it matters as long as you've got what they need for the immigration processing.
 
I heard that it is hard to work as a physician in S. Africa even though there is a shortage of doctors and brain drain. Supposedly S. Africa was trying to recruit more doctors by passing laws to make it possible but 1) I'm not sure if the laws passed and 2) even though the goverment says it's okay, putting it into practice is not easy. There were "people" who were against foreigners practicing there.

I did hear a rumor that S. Africa was actively recruiting Canadian doctors so maybe it might be easier to pursue a career there with an EU passport.

Good luck...Africa is a beautiful country and I would love to practice there someday.
 
Originally posted by JolliBee
IGood luck...Africa is a beautiful country and I would love to practice there someday.


Africa is a continent and not a country! Gee!!!
 
I know Africa is not a country. I worked and lived in Zimbabwe for 16 months on a USAID scholarship and traveled throughout Southern Africa extensively. I also went on a medical mission to South Africa and loved the people. I worked in a township clinic and saw doctors save lives with limited resources. If given the chance to work in SOUTH Africa, I'd go in a heartbeat.
 
I worked in many hospitals in South Africa and there were many doctors from foreign countries. All of them were European, I don't know if that is because it is easier as a European or simply because no Americans had tried to do it. I did meet a handful of Americans working for different companies, so I would guess it is not a matter of immigration restrictions, although they are pretty strict.
 
Originally posted by JolliBee
I know Africa is not a country. I worked and lived in Zimbabwe for 16 months on a USAID scholarship and traveled throughout Southern Africa extensively. I also went on a medical mission to South Africa and loved the people. I worked in a township clinic and saw doctors save lives with limited resources. If given the chance to work in SOUTH Africa, I'd go in a heartbeat.

JolliBee,
Where did you live and what did you do in Zimbabwe? I lived in Kazangarare (about 50k east of Karoi) for 2 years and taught maths and science at a secondary school. Although working permanently in South Africa or Zimbabwe might be difficult due to the strange immigration regulations, doing elective rotations there is not that difficult to organize. I'm hoping to go to Zimbabwe (unfortunately my school won't let me right now because it is still on restricted travel on the State Department list. I'll probably end up going to South Africa for an away rotation.
 
Hi mpp,

I lived in the capital city Harare where I worked as a "Manager of Information Systems" for a consulting company. USAID was trying to build up the country's computer infrastructure by way of private businesses. I supervised and assisted in the intallation of the local area network (LAN), implemented new software, and trained users to use and maintain the network. USAID's fellowship ran out after 10 months but I stayed longer to finish up the project.

There was a time when I was exploring the possibility of working in Zimbabwe or S. Africa. Both required an employer sponsorship and a sizeable investment ~$150K (?) so the government will not have to support you in the future. In addition, for Z., the owner must provide annual proof that your business is making money.

With all the brain drain in those countries, I would have thought that the immigration restrictions might have eased up but I haven't seen any evidence lately.

I've talked to students from other countries who are doing rotations in South Africa and you're right--it's relatively easy. As for Zimbabwe, I would love to work there but it's so politically unstable.

I'd love to hear about your adventures in Karoi. I wish I would have had more exposure to the rural areas. PM me sometime.

Best of luck with your away rotations,
J.
 
It will definitely be possible to live and work in South Africa with either a European or American degree. There was a huge influx of Cuban trained physicians there in the 1990's due to physician shortages. However, be prepared to work very very hard for very little compensation.
There are many social problems, not the least of which is a skyrocketing violent crime rate. In fact, I think that statistically Johannesburg is one of the most dangerous cities in the world to live in due to car jackings, assaults, murders, robbery, home invasions, etc.
In terms of technology, South Africa is not far behind the western world. In fact, the first successful heart transplant was done in South Africa. While in other countries in Africa you may be working without the benefit of basic imaging and laboratory amenities, this will not be a problem in South Africa.
 
Hi everybody !

I am a medical student in Sweden, and I was wondering if it was possible to transfer to a medical school in South Africa, though I don't have finished my studies yet ?
I want to work there when I have finished my studies anyway but I would love to move there before :)

regards,
tatabox
 
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This is normally not do-able for someone such as yourself. SA med schools are very citizen-oriented, generally. However, you could contact the faculties, express your interest in attending their med school and WHY you want to go to SA particularly for med school, and see what they say. If you wind up doing this, let us know what happens!

Even so, you can always do some clinicals there!
 
Wow, I've read some interesting stuff here. I'm studying in SA, in Cape Town, actually, and although I may be wrong, I don't think it really matters whether you apply as an EU citizen or not.

Okay, to be fair, there are a lot more exchange programs going on between EU countries and here, and all the foreign doctors generally tend to be from Europe. Specifically from eastern europe. :D

I don't think it's hard at all. Where would you like to work, though? In a big, bustling city hospital or in the "bush" :) ?
 
wow, you are so lucky to live in Cape Town, one of the most beautiful city in the world :)
which year are you studying ?
in fact I am actually planning to go there as an exchange student in one year or two.
But my problem is that my university doesn't have any exchange program with any of the Cape Town Universities,only with Pretoria.
Do you know if any of the exchange students come as free movers in your university ?
thanks a lot !
 
missgropey said:
I don't think it really matters whether you apply as an EU citizen or not.

Exchange programs are one thing, but admissions to a SA med school is almost without exception limited to SAers and a few other Africans, I promise. I have been down this road before. ;)
 
I apologise, Stephen, you are absolutely correct, I went and checked with my faculty and it is true... applications to study here are very against non-SA citizens. Exchange programs, however, are indeed a different issue.

tatabox: you would have to contact my university and let the undergraduate office contact yours, and see if they are able to work something out. :D They are generally really cool.
 
I'm not sure what the rules are for moving to RSA if you are going on European Citizenship - but for Americans, you need to establish permenant residency status in the country, and to do that you need to go through an application process with a R12,000 price tag. I don't suspect that it is necessarily an easy road to go down.

Getting accepted to a professional school in RSA is nearly impossible unless you are #1) a black South African, #2) or a black student from one of the other African countries, #3) then any other South African, #4) and lastly every now and then a foriegner sneaks in. This is coming almost verbatim from the Vice Dean at UP's dental school. I can't personally say one way or another because I never applied to and of the schools here.

Oh, and despite what you think you may know based on a volunteer outing to a S.African township, you don't want to work there. Putting yourself at risk to ride around Alexandra or Mitchell's Plain caring for AIDS patients isn't saving lives - it's endangering yours and post-poning death for those under your watch. Get real tourist.

M (die baas van die plaas)

Suid-Afrika, Ons is Vir Jou. Red Ons Seuntjies!!
 
Reed1978 said:
Oh, and despite what you think you may know based on a volunteer outing to a S.African township, you don't want to work there. Putting yourself at risk to ride around Alexandra or Mitchell's Plain caring for AIDS patients isn't saving lives - it's endangering yours and post-poning death for those under your watch. Get real tourist.

M (die baas van die plaas)

Suid-Afrika, Ons is Vir Jou. Red Ons Seuntjies!!

WOW :eek: i thought doctors were all about saving lives and if dying is inevitable then providing care to maximize the little time left.

If Aids patients aren't worth saving why the need to spend billions on reserach and aids education.

I feel sorry for the field of medicine if doctors think the way you do.
As for your comments "GET REAL TOURIST", it sounds like your the tourist, to the field of medicine and healthcare
 
mrembo said:
Africa is a continent and not a country! Gee!!!

dood!!! you are soooo smart!!! thanks for telling all of us highly educated people about countries and continents. very remarkable stuff. thank you very much!!!! :sleep:
 
If Aids patients aren't worth saving why the need to spend billions on reserach and aids education.

I feel sorry for the field of medicine if doctors think the way you do.
As for your comments "GET REAL TOURIST", it sounds like your the tourist, to the field of medicine and healthcare[/QUOTE]





Gimme a break. You people struggle so hard to be open-minded at the expense of you brains falling right out. Does anybody who has ACTUALLY been to RSA have a comment? I honestly don't have the time to explain the state of 3rd world health care systems, post-apartheid tensions, or the effects of interrupted HIV drug therapies on patients to you. But if you insist on pretending that you know what you're talking about, then by all means - bounce into Soweto for a few days to save the world and I promise I won't laugh when I read on the front page of the Beeld about yet another western doctor who got necklaced while trying to help out the local rabble.

M (trots blanc - skaam vir niks!)
 
Reed1978 said:
Gimme a break. You people struggle so hard to be open-minded at the expense of you brains falling right out. Does anybody who has ACTUALLY been to RSA have a comment? I honestly don't have the time to explain the state of 3rd world health care systems, post-apartheid tensions, or the effects of interrupted HIV drug therapies on patients to you. But if you insist on pretending that you know what you're talking about, then by all means - bounce into Soweto for a few days to save the world and I promise I won't laugh when I read on the front page of the Beeld about yet another western doctor who got necklaced while trying to help out the local rabble.

M (trots blanc - skaam vir niks!)


I have to say, you are BEYOND thick, your Super Dense. You under the impression that practicing in South Africa dooms you to practicing in areas with extremely violent crime rates. What about practicing in Baragwana (for all of our friends it?s a 800 bed hospital which mostly houses patients from poor communities, like Soweto, by the way they have security too) or Oomshlanga (rural community with very few doctors, it?s a coastal town, near Durban)

Do us all a favor don?t WOW us with your superior intellect of 3rd world health care systems, post-apartheid tensions, or the effects of interrupted HIV drug therapies on patients, we or at least I am well aware of it all.

If you came on here explaining that South Africa has a huge problem with safety and being well received with open arms by both south African doctors and other South Africans is looking at life with rose colored glasses. Then I would have no problem and AGREE with you, BUT you instead bitch about ?how caring for AIDS patients isn't saving lives?

Get real CHINA. Since you want a comment from someone who?s actually been to RSA, well let me facile. I have not only been to SA but also was born there and lived there for close to twenty years. I personally know American doctors and dentists that work in SA and none of them have been necklaced, they don?t practice in Soweto or any other HIGH CRIME RATE area. They work in affiliation with Wits, (you remember Wits don?t you) doing AIDS research they also administer trial vaccines and medications to patients who come to them. Your right compliance is low and can be dangerous when considering HIV, but that?s NO excuse to stop providing healthcare.
 
You under the impression that practicing in South Africa dooms you to practicing in areas with extremely violent crime rates. What about practicing in Baragwana (for all of our friends it?s a 800 bed hospital which mostly houses patients from poor communities, like Soweto, by the way they have security too)

Well, first of all - it's Baragwanath, and second of all the hospital has well over 4,300 beds (as would be expected since it's the largest public hospital in the world). And what about practicing there? The fact that it's a large hospital with thousands of beds is certainly a testament to the fact that the surrounding area is an area of extremely high crime and rampant HIV infection. In fact, I do recall one specific article which outlined the details of how a 10 year old gang-rape victim was brought to Baragwanath and was refused anti-retrovirals there. The article then goes on to mention a similar case in Durban. Oh, and "they have security too" ? Are you joking? It's Soweto - I would hope they would have security. I may stand corrected, but every hospital I have ever been to in RSA has security - and if there are hospitals that don't have security, then this just further proves my point that practicing here is ill-advised.

"Oomshlanga"...you mean Umhlanga. Please stop embarrassing yourself - you have never been to South Africa.

If you came on here explaining that South Africa has a huge problem with safety and being well received with open arms by both south African doctors and other South Africans is looking at life with rose colored glasses. Then I would have no problem and AGREE with you, BUT you instead bitch about ?how caring for AIDS patients isn't saving lives?


Wooo, easy there champ. "Caring for HIV infected patients" for the record, ISN'T saving lives - otherwise we would certainly refer to it as "Curing HIV infected patients". I have no problem with improving the quality of life for individuals who have AIDS (via medication or whatever), or the billions of dollars being well-invested in research for the disease, but the current situation in RSA is complicated and mandates a clear understanding before we can dive in head first.

Do us all a favor don?t WOW us with your superior intellect of 3rd world health care systems, post-apartheid tensions, or the effects of interrupted HIV drug therapies on patients, we or at least I am well aware of it all.

No. You are not well aware of any of these, and since at least one of us has to be the adult here and end this public harangue, I nominate myself. Just send me a personal message and I will explain them to you in explicit detail.

Get real CHINA. Since you want a comment from someone who?s actually been to RSA, well let me facile. I have not only been to SA but also was born there and lived there for close to twenty years. I personally know American doctors and dentists that work in SA and none of them have been necklaced, they don?t practice in Soweto or any other HIGH CRIME RATE area. They work in affiliation with Wits, (you remember Wits don?t you) doing AIDS research they also administer trial vaccines and medications to patients who come to them. Your right compliance is low and can be dangerous when considering HIV, but that?s NO excuse to stop providing healthcare.

I'm not sure I fully understand the "Get real CHINA" remark - but nevertheless, we continue. I know plenty of American, New Zealand, British, Canadian, South African, Haitian, etc. doctors who work in RSA too, and none of them have been necklaced either. Hey, we have something in common. I am pleased to allow you to facile - just make sure the next time you do that you remember not to blatantly contradict yourself (e.g. "You under the impression that practicing in South Africa dooms you to practicing in areas with extremely violent crime rates. What about practicing in Baragwana (Soweto)". I personally know American doctors and dentists that work in SA and none of them have been necklaced, they don?t practice in Soweto or any other HIGH CRIME RATE area). I guess I just don't understand how Soweto is at once an area of high crime and yet an area without extremely violent crime rates. Please, facile again.


They work in affiliation with Wits, (you remember Wits don?t you)


Yes. And I remember UP and UCT, and Medunsa, and Natal, and UOFT and Stellenbosch.
 
The spell checks?. Worthy of Microsoft taking note. The anecdotal cut and paste coupled with quick jabs?. Positively genius. Taking note of the ?blatantly? contradictory statements?. again outrageously brilliant.

But hey my work here is done, why might you wonder? Let me digress for a moment.

1st statement: ?Oh, and despite what you think you may know based on a volunteer outing to a S.African township, you don't want to work there. Putting yourself at risk to ride around Alexandra or Mitchell's Plain caring for AIDS patients isn't saving lives - it's endangering yours and post-poning death for those under your watch. Get real tourist."

Comments: You assume working in SA is a death sentence. The idea that someone else, particularly on this forum, may have any inkling of the conditions in SA is preposterous to you. (E.g. ?get real tourist?)

2nd statement: "I honestly don't have the time to explain the state of 3rd world health care systems, post-apartheid tensions, or the effects of interrupted HIV drug therapies on patients to you. But if you insist on pretending that you know what you're talking about, then by all means - bounce into Soweto for a few days to save the world and I promise I won't laugh when I read on the front page of the Beeld about yet another western doctor who got necklaced while trying to help out the local rabble."

Comments: Again your arrogance is astounding, only you are capable of explaining and understanding the intricate nature of, ?the 3rd world health care system, post-apartheid tensions, or the effects of interrupted HIV drug therapies on patients.? I suppose the rest of us are just na?ve souls hoping to improve the lives of the sick.

I hope you understand that your brilliant knowledge of the 3rd world health care system, or the effects of interrupted HIV drug therapies on patients, is not endemic to you alone. Information about these subjects can be found at the library or if you really want to push the envelope, one could read the latest research, from scientific journals (Wow, It?s a miracle). The only knowledge you alone may have is your understanding of post-apartheid tensions, since you alone cannot experience life through every South African, your views may be a little biased, towards your particular values, religious beliefs, etc.
Thus, your understanding of these three areas is, not quite so special.



Now: "No. You are not well aware of any of these, and since at least one of us has to be the adult here and end this public harangue, I nominate myself. Just send me a personal message and I will explain them to you in explicit detail"

Comments: Your over blown ego again is beyond comprehension, which I assume is shadowed by your concern for Aids patients.

Now: "I have no problem with improving the quality of life for individuals who have AIDS (via medication or whatever), or the billions of dollars being well-invested in research for the disease, but the current situation in RSA is complicated and mandates a clear understanding before we can dive in head first."

Comment: It almost sounds like you care, again I apologize. It almost reads like you care. It?s clear, concise and objective and the best thing you have typed about SA.
Not bad at all, I will take it.

(?You people struggle so hard to be open-minded at the expense of you brains falling right out.?) Only in a forum like this someone as thick as you has the opportunity to change their comments so you can move from being a arrogant pr#@k to a objective open minded doctor-to-be.

Your asinine comments are irritating, and bewildering especially when considering a proud South African like yourself, who has had first hand experience with the shortages of healthcare professionals in SA, believes that doctors should not practice in SA (E.G.?You don't want to work there?)

But lets not focus on the details, instead on this gem! :D :D :D :D

?I have no problem with improving the quality of life for individuals who have AIDS (via medication or whatever), or the billions of dollars being well-invested in research for the disease, but the current situation in RSA is complicated and mandates a clear understanding before we can dive in head first.?

Not a complete contradiction, but the tone sure sounds a lot better.
 
Folks, let's try to cool these flames down in here some. Stick to issues and the person's arguments. It really only takes some tweaking.
 
I personally think what the poster said about Helping AIDS patients is worthless is arrogant and totally lacking in compassion.
 
Megalofyia said:
Does anyone know the rules for emmigration into S. Africa? After I finish medical school and residency I would love to move to Africa to live for a while. Is it at all similar to moving to the States?


Here is an article about health care in S. Africa you might find interesting.

http://www.techcentralstation.com/060304E.html
 
Reed is obviously missing apartheid, he is probably a redneck and there's a good chance that he has romantic feelings torwards his sister.. :love:
It's too late mate, Nelson Mandela and the Native South Africans won. ;)
 
Hi,
I want to know cape town university post graduation course ? scope after doing ? plz help me. is it good idea ? experiance is good ?
 
hi friends
i want to know if there is any exchange program between SA and europe or American or Australian universities in post graduste level
 
I realise this thread is YEARS old, but I found it searching for 'Stellenbosch', and I just find the whole discussion very very funny.

People are crazy. :laugh:
 
I'm not sure what the rules are for moving to RSA if you are going on European Citizenship - but for Americans, you need to establish permenant residency status in the country, and to do that you need to go through an application process with a R12,000 price tag. I don't suspect that it is necessarily an easy road to go down.

Getting accepted to a professional school in RSA is nearly impossible unless you are #1) a black South African, #2) or a black student from one of the other African countries, #3) then any other South African, #4) and lastly every now and then a foriegner sneaks in. This is coming almost verbatim from the Vice Dean at UP's dental school. I can't personally say one way or another because I never applied to and of the schools here.

Oh, and despite what you think you may know based on a volunteer outing to a S.African township, you don't want to work there. Putting yourself at risk to ride around Alexandra or Mitchell's Plain caring for AIDS patients isn't saving lives - it's endangering yours and post-poning death for those under your watch. Get real tourist.

M (die baas van die plaas)

Suid-Afrika, Ons is Vir Jou. Red Ons Seuntjies!!

Typical attitude of an Afrikaner bitter because they no longer have the privileges they have had for hundreds of years. Being a doctor is about saving lives.

Sent from my Vodafone 858 using SDN Mobile
 
I would like to apologize for my earlier post!

Heated and arrogant, please disregard

thanks
 
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