List every factor that should be inc. when deciding which school:

[H0mersimps0n]

Hey, I'm going to try a different approach to this process; instead of asking "hey guys, what do you think, school X or school Y" I'm plainly asking for as many factors you can think of that should be considered when decided between two schools...

Here's what I have so far, please quote/add as you see fit:

1.) Academics (obviously)
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Confidence in faculty
7.) Number of 3/4 year residency sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year resiency sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Preceived happiness of current students

what am I forgetting? hmmm

Remember I'm not looking for answers to these questions simply for the questions.


THANKS A LOT!!!! I hope this helps others as well!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[dogirl]

11. % of students passing boards

 

[Dreamin]

1.) Academics (obviously)
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Confidence in faculty
7.) Number of 3/4 year residency sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year resiency sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Preceived happiness of current students

11.) How happy you think that you would be there (Did you seem to fit in with the students there and the school?)

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

1.) Academics
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Confidence in faculty
7.) Number of 3/4 year rotation sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year rotation sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Perceived happiness of current students
11.) % of students passing boards on the first try.
12.) % of students landing their first choice residencies.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

good stuff, I kind of left out too much on residencies because those numbers are hard to find and sometimes iffy... definitely worthy of being on the list however:

1.) Academics
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Confidence in faculty
7.) Number of 3/4 year rotation sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year rotation sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Perceived happiness of current students
11.) Estimated happiness of self
12.) % of students passing boards on the first try.
13.) % of students landing their first choice residencies.
14.) % students that get DO/MD residencies (this worthy?)

 

[eschauberger]

What type of environment exist? This depends on the type of person you are--some of this depends on how the school will grade you.

Which bring me to the next question.

Some schools only give Pass and Fail, giving a relaxed environment. However, how will they give you a class rating when you apply to residencies (which is required)? Some will "secretly" still keep track of percents, others will give you a rating depending solely on your USMLE scores.

 

[kpax18]

1.) Academics
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Confidence in faculty
7.) Number of 3/4 year rotation sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year rotation sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Perceived happiness of current students
11.) Estimated happiness of self
12.) % of students passing boards on the first try.
13.) % of students landing their first choice residencies.
14.) % students that get DO/MD residencies (this worthy?)
15.)Student body diversity (ethnicity, state they're from, etc.)

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

i think you guys have that list a little askew....

i think that residency placements should be way above weather...location...cost of living...etc....

and i think that clerkship sites for years 3/4 are also way above the weather...etc..

 

[H0mersimps0n]

they aren't in any specific order... if you'd like to put them in order go for it. I agree the weight of each is just as important as it being on the list...

UPDATED:

1.) Academics
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Confidence in faculty
7.) Number of 3/4 year rotation sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year rotation sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Perceived happiness of current students
11.) Estimated happiness of self
12.) % of students passing boards on the first try.
13.) % of students landing their first choice residencies.
14.) % students that get DO/MD residencies (this worthy?)
15.) Student body diversity (ethnicity, state they're from, etc.)
16.) Methods of grading/class ranking

 

[Kritenoel]

I'm adding class size - I'd rather be in a smaller class (130 people) then a larger class (400). This also applies to school size.

UPDATED:

1.) Academics
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Confidence in faculty
7.) Number of 3/4 year rotation sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year rotation sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Perceived happiness of current students
11.) Estimated happiness of self
12.) % of students passing boards on the first try.
13.) % of students landing their first choice residencies.
14.) % students that get DO/MD residencies (this worthy?)
15.) Student body diversity (ethnicity, state they're from, etc.)
16.) Methods of grading/class ranking
17.) Class Size/school size

 

[Gregory Gulick]

BOLD UPPERCASE implies changes to the list.

1.) CURRICULUM (Problem based learning vs. traditional vs. combination)
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Confidence in faculty <-- What does this mean, exactly?
7.) Number of 3/4 year rotation sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year rotation sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Perceived happiness of current students
11.) Estimated happiness of self
12.) % of students passing boards on the first try.
13.) % of students landing their first choice residencies.
14.) DELETED (percent of students getting into a DO or MD residency is useless, because you'd have to know whether the individual wanted a DO or MD residency. #13 takes care of this for you)
new 14.) Proximity of support system
15.) Opportunities for extracurricular involvement (you have to do something other than study in order to stay sane)
16.) Opportunities for research (if this interests you)
17.) Opportunities for early clinical exposure (you need to use your skills early on in your first and second year, even if only once a week)

That's all I can think of for now.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

Sorry but I grouped a lot of those into one #18...

UPDATED:

1.) CURRICULUM (Problem based learning vs. traditional vs. combination)
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Faculty availability/reputation
7.) Number of 3/4 year rotation sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year rotation sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Perceived happiness of current students
11.) Estimated happiness of self
12.) % of students passing boards on the first try.
13.) % of students landing their first choice residencies.
14.) Proximity of support system
15.) Opportunities for extracurricular involvement
16.) Opportunities for research (if this interests you)
17.) Opportunities for early clinical exposure
18.) Availability and cleanliness of Campus Facilities
19.) Availability of technological services on-campus

BOLDED are my changes...

-I don't think so much world news reports matter cause many of the schools aren't on there as well, essentiall we are doing the same thing they are only more taylored for us anyway

-I think that how you select your residency and rotation sites will give you specific exposure to the patient base you want so that would go under rotations and rotation locations 3/4 yr

-If patients don't like the sound of "X" COM they can either live with it or sit there, refuse care and be as sick as they want. Many studies are projecting severe shortages of physicians in the next few years, I doubt two little letters after your name or how the name of where you went will matter to many people. I heard a dirty little rumor that even schools like Georgetown are having close to record low application rates this application season. Funny how people duck out on something when it no longer becomes financially prosperous.

-I suppose matriculant GPA/MCAT/SAT MIGHT be important, but don't consider that kind of thing to have enough weight to go on the list.

 

[Kritenoel]

I'm re-adding class size/school size. Somewhere in the mix it got lost.

UPDATED:

1.) CURRICULUM (Problem based learning vs. traditional vs. combination)
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Faculty availability/reputation
7.) Number of 3/4 year rotation sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year rotation sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Perceived happiness of current students
11.) Estimated happiness of self
12.) % of students passing boards on the first try.
13.) % of students landing their first choice residencies.
14.) Proximity of support system
15.) Opportunities for extracurricular involvement
16.) Opportunities for research (if this interests you)
17.) Opportunities for early clinical exposure
18.) Availability and cleanliness of Campus Facilities
19.) Availability of technological services on-campus
20.) Class size/school size

 

[MyEyesMesmerize]

What about location in regards to family or spouse/significant other? Not sure if it fits into any of these. I'll let you decide.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

I think that falls under #5... something like consideration of local school systems for those of you with children, etc...

 

[SawBones]

Homer, speaking of patients refusing care, you reminded me of an event that happened on rotations recently. Check out my post on the *REAL* advantages of being a D.O. It is actually a true story about a patient that refused care because my attending was a D.O. It is hilarious, but very much true.

And I'm with you, Homer, about how ridiculous it is to choose a school because it sounds like an M.D. school. This is utterly foolish.

 

[MyEyesMesmerize]

How about grading system? Some people prefer honors/pass/fail as opposed to letter grading.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

UPDATED:

1.) CURRICULUM (Problem based learning vs. traditional vs. combination)
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Faculty availability/reputation
7.) Number of 3/4 year rotation sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year rotation sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Perceived happiness of current students
11.) Estimated happiness of self
12.) % of students passing boards on the first try.
13.) % of students landing their first choice residencies.
14.) Proximity of support system
15.) Opportunities for extracurricular involvement
16.) Opportunities for research (if this interests you)
17.) Opportunities for early clinical exposure
18.) Availability and cleanliness of Campus Facilities
19.) Availability of technological services on-campus
20.) Class size/school size
21.) Grading system*

*although, according to the UNECOM admission staff AACOM is trying to get all schools to grade by the same method in an effort to help students get placed more efficiently. I guess pass/fail doesn't give hospitals/programs a good enough idea of how "qualified" a student is in comparison to his/her peers.

 

[DrQuinn]

-What about the presence of good looking students on campus? I remember going on interviews at some DO programs and just seeing some woofers... yuk!

Q

 

[H0mersimps0n]

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... no... sorry

While I'm not telling you to date your patients, I should hope that regardless of where you go and how ugly the student body is that in your lifetime, as a physician you will meet enough people to choke a herd of donkey's... Two years of being w/o a bunch of "hotties" around is but a drop in the bucket.

feel free to add it to your list though!

 

[DrQuinn]

I dunno, Homer. I know of one DO program with some of the hottest girls on campus (it has PT, PA, OT programs there). Definately makes for an interesting two years. Atleast it keeps your blood flowing.

And trust me, I've seen some people in my four years that make my pylorus shudder... but its nice to have eye candy. Anyways, continue with the serious posts.
Q

 

[bustinbooty]

 

[H0mersimps0n]

*BUMP* (here xoom) so to restate:

1.) CURRICULUM (Problem based learning vs. traditional vs. combination)
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Faculty availability/reputation
7.) Number of 3/4 year rotation sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year rotation sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Perceived happiness of current students
11.) Estimated happiness of self
12.) % of students passing boards on the first try.
13.) % of students landing their first choice residencies.
14.) Proximity of support system
15.) Opportunities for extracurricular involvement
16.) Opportunities for research (if this interests you)
17.) Opportunities for early clinical exposure
18.) Availability and cleanliness of Campus Facilities
19.) Availability of technological services on-campus
20.) Class size/school size
21.) Grading system

any last thoughts?

 

[njdesi]

Only (single bachelors)members of the male species would worry about something as trivial as how "HOT" the student body of a school is

 

[SuzieQ]

An interesting thing to know about a school is how many first years go on to be second years. I'm not sure if I would chose a school based on this, but if the numbers were bad, I just might...

 

[kumar28]

good point suzie. I think the term you are getting at is attrition rate...that is how many first years actually finish the program. This would definitely have a big impact on my decision to attend a particular school.
Does anyone know where I can find specific information on this? Particularly for KCOM and NOVA.

Thanks

 

[H0mersimps0n]

some of these factoids are extremely hard to find and most of the time even hard to extract from the schools if they exist. I guess the idea of "the list" was to get a bunch of things together that can be easily research through info brochures, website information and interview packet information. hmmm...

 

[H0mersimps0n]

*bump* to an oldie but goodie

 

[pathdr2b]

How about adding flexibility of the curriculum? For example if you have twins in your 3rd year, can you reduce the load and complete it in 2 years.

 

[oceandocDO]

In addition to all the above listed, I'd stress the importance of being happy. A happy medical student is a more productive medical student, no matter the temperature outside, class size, type of curriculum, etc. When it comes to being happy, in addition to family and friends support, it's the little things of everyday life and studying that sum to the collective whole, IMO.

For example, ask the school how they distribute notes, ie... is there a scribe service or are the lecture notes provided ahead of time? This can mean a world of difference in less headaches and not falling behind. Availability of technology directly plays into this. Are lecture halls hard-wired, are lectures available online? What kind of tutoring programs exist? What's the exam schedule like? Pass/fail? Are tests returned to students to learn from mistakes?

What's the involvement of the student body? What about clubs, societies, student-life funding? These are all a barometer of how supportive the administration is towards student well-being.

Ask how students set up 3rd and 4th year rotations. Some schools hand you a book of rotating sites and say good luck, others do all the legwork for you. This can be a huge time saver in the spring of second year, when you're finishing up classes and studying for boards.

Regarding the school's curriculum, ask how long the school has been under the current system. Hope for at least 3 years. Usually the first few years have more hiccups and kinks to work out when implementing new curricula, thus dont be a guinea pig unless you have to be.

Also, when it comes to boards, dont ask what the pass rate is. Just about everyone will pass the boards, most immediately, some eventually. A 91% vs. 95% difference in pass rate means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Instead, ask what the average score is. Every school in the country will have some students who fail the boards because of reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of education provided, eg... stressful family situations, being sick on test day, etc. The mean board score is a much better barometer of a school's academic health, IMO.

my $0.02 for now.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

I was working under the assumption that items 1-21 were to be considered as a sum total of how happy you think you would be at a single locale. God knows I ended up at my UG almost entirely on "feel" and where I thought I'd be most comfortable and while I'm paying severe financial penalities (loans b/c the other choice was a state school), I regret nothing.

You might not score a perfect 10 in every category, but attending the school that scores highest (i.e. something you like, want or makes you happy more than the other) in areas that matter most result in you making the best choices for YOU...

I used this system to decide between EV VCOM and LECOM. LECOM won out and I feel really good about my decision, my considerations and dealing with skeptics over my decisions (mainly family members who immediately shut up when I show them my list of "considerations" and they see how thorough I was)...

GOOD LUCK, keep em coming!

EDIT: also I agree about the avg. board scores thought, I feel that kind of thing is more of a personal attitude. At the same time I realize this might be a really important factor to those less-motivated or REALLY on the wall people who need every last consideration to help them decide. Its all relative, whats not

 

[save10]

Hottness of the study body is not a trivial thing. After suffering through two years of "ouch it hurts my eyes", I'm glad to be an MS3.

 

[Naphtali]

One thing I didn't see on the list was quality of facilities. How old are they? Are computers and other technology integrated into classrooms and labs? Is the library adequate? The study spaces? The student housing?

And of course, most important of all: is the anatomy lab well ventilated?

-Naphtali

 

[LINY]

UPDATED:

1.) CURRICULUM (Problem based learning vs. traditional vs. combination)
2.) Weather (e.g. snow vs sunshine)
3.) Location (rural, suburban, urban setting)
4.) Expense of Living
5.) Location of living arrangements (possible)
6.) Faculty availability/reputation
7.) Number of 3/4 year rotation sites
8.) Location of 3/4 year rotation sites
9.) Tuition costs
10.) Perceived happiness of current students
11.) Estimated happiness of self
12.) % of students passing boards on the first try.
13.) % of students landing their first choice residencies.
14.) Proximity of support system
15.) Opportunities for extracurricular involvement
16.) Opportunities for research (if this interests you)
17.) Opportunities for early clinical exposure
18.) Availability and cleanliness of Campus Facilities
19.) Availability of technological services on-campus
20.) Class size/school size
21.) Grading system*
22.) if they secure a residency for every student
23.) amount of research

 

[H0mersimps0n]

That trashy piece of crap befouled my thread!!

KICK HIS ASS SEABASS!

 

[Docgeorge]

I second you on that piece of $HIT Homer

Get him OFF the Boards!!!!!

 

[H0mersimps0n]

I like those quotes from your dad DOC... how about this one my dad used to tell me all the time when I didn't follow his instructions and succeeded anyway:

"even a blind squirrel can find a nut in the woods sometimes"