LIne of Credit: RBC vs MD Management. Winner?

[shetland]

Hi
What institution would you recomend for lines of credit? Royal Bank or MD Management?
Please advise
Thank you xx

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[Jamesmtl]

Hey yo! I've never heard of MD Management....I am planning on going with RBC. Is there any reason one is better than the other? Anyone out there ever used MD Management??

 

[tussy]

MD Management doens't loan you money. They are part of the CMA (Canadian Medical Association). As a medical student or resident member of the CMA you get free financial advice from MD management.

I have my LOC with Scotiabank. They will give you up to 150,000 at prime, plus a gold card for $10/money. They have been good to me.

 

[ssc_396]

MD Management doens't loan you money. They are part of the CMA (Canadian Medical Association). As a medical student or resident member of the CMA you get free financial advice from MD management.

I have my LOC with Scotiabank. They will give you up to 150,000 at prime, plus a gold card for $10/money. They have been good to me.

MD Management does administer a LOC. They offer a 200K LOC through National Bank. See:

http://mdm.ca/md/studentresident/st...ent/md/solutions/banking/medical-students.asp

 

[trustwomen]

MD Management does administer a LOC. They offer a 200K LOC through National Bank. See:

http://mdm.ca/md/studentresident/st...ent/md/solutions/banking/medical-students.asp

I just looked through the MD management package and it doesn't look as good as RBC to me. The credit line is higher, I guess, but I would go bankrupt if I went anywhere near 150K in debt anyway (couldn't pay the interest!!)...

 

[shetland]

Hey
Thank you all for replying. I think I am leaning towards RBC, because I wont spend more than 150 K (or I hope not to). I am planning to use my savings, scholarship, Canada and BC STudent Loan, and then not more than half my Line Of Credit, because of fear of the mountain of interest. I know ssc mentioned that MD Management/ National Bank may be more forgiving in repayments, but I personally feel that banks and repayments are all the same, they will all be "ruthless" during repayments, and I dont blame them as banks are protecting shareholder's interests. I have been with Royal bank throughout my life, and have been treated very well, so I will continue my business with them.

 

[avenirv]

so you gays say something like "it is not the financial institution but i am afraid that i'll become too greedy and spend everything" ?
do you want to say you cannot control your spending habits ? this is not good for a future md.

 

[trustwomen]

so you gays say something like "it is not the financial institution but i am afraid that i'll become too greedy and spend everything" ?
do you want to say you cannot control your spending habits ? this is not good for a future md.

Nope, I was saying that I don't need more than a 150K credit line. I am very good with my money and have no fear of being tempted by more, but I am realistic about my needs, and 150K will more than cover them. (Of course, my tuition will be just over 20K for 4 years - god bless socialist Quebec!)

A great many doctors are bad with money, though. They just happen to make enough money so that this weakness doesn't affect their lives too much.

BTW, I'm not gay - just bi. Or was that a typo?

 

[shetland]

Nope, I was saying that I don't need more than a 150K credit line. I am very good with my money and have no fear of being tempted by more, but I am realistic about my needs, and 150K will more than cover them. (Of course, my tuition will be just over 20K for 4 years - god bless socialist Quebec!)

A great many doctors are bad with money, though. They just happen to make enough money so that this weakness doesn't affect their lives too much.

BTW, I'm not gay - just bi. Or was that a typo?

hey trust,
Are you going to McGill? My tuition is 20K per year, about 80K all together in tuition. for UBC.
Maybe I should go back to England... hmm
I agree with you with money and spending, one has to be careful iwith their financial matters.

 

[ssc_396]

Hey
Thank you all for replying. I think I am leaning towards RBC, because I wont spend more than 150 K (or I hope not to). I am planning to use my savings, scholarship, Canada and BC STudent Loan, and then not more than half my Line Of Credit, because of fear of the mountain of interest. I know ssc mentioned that MD Management/ National Bank may be more forgiving in repayments, but I personally feel that banks and repayments are all the same, they will all be "ruthless" during repayments, and I dont blame them as banks are protecting shareholder's interests. I have been with Royal bank throughout my life, and have been treated very well, so I will continue my business with them.

Yup - if you don't think anything out of the ordinary will happen throughout your training then there's no reason to choose MD over RBC, or any other bank.

The other thing I'd be interested in hearing about is credit cards. The only good thing I can see about non-Quebec tution is all the airmiles we'll get from paying tuition by credit card. I got the MD Management platinum card because it has no fees for two years, but I think the BMO Mosaic offers the most miles/$ spent.

Off topic - Truswomen, do you know what the leaving rate is for Quebec docs? I know the tuition is the lowest in the country, but the docs are also the lowest paid. Do many get the cheap schooling and leave or do most stick around?

 

[trustwomen]

The other thing I'd be interested in hearing about is credit cards. The only good thing I can see about non-Quebec tution is all the airmiles we'll get from paying tuition by credit card. I got the MD Management platinum card because it has no fees for two years, but I think the BMO Mosaic offers the most miles/$ spent.

Off topic - Truswomen, do you know what the leaving rate is for Quebec docs? I know the tuition is the lowest in the country, but the docs are also the lowest paid. Do many get the cheap schooling and leave or do most stick around?

Paying tuition by (miles-accumulating) credit card is a great idea. Everyone should do this, no question. I tried to buy a car on my credit card (appropriately pre-loaded with a positive balance of course) but the dealer would hear none of it, didn't want to pay the fees... (I might not wind up getting a free flight to Australia by next summer.)

I don't know the overall rate of leaving (my personal guess/opinion is "too high"), but I read somewhere that 30% of McGill med grads never practice in the province. That seems really ungrateful to me, considering only about 10% are from outside Quebec to start with - meaning that the extra 20% received heavy investments from the province... Unilingual francophone grads from the other three schools can't leave, but many bilingual ones do leave. I'd imagine McGill attrition would be the highest though, considering that the reputation alone would open doors elsewhere...

And it will get worse. The QC gov't just shafted the specialists and the interprovincial income gap is still over 100K for them... Family docs do better (in the relative sense), but are still paid less than FPs in other provinces. Quebec also has about a 10% higher marginal tax rate, of course... Personally, I plan to stay in Quebec and don't mind paying the extra tax, but income equality would be nice... (yes, shetland, I'm going to McGill)

Quebec has many advantages in lifestyle and affordability (though the latter is disappearing fast, in Montreal anyway). It's my home. The only thing that would make me leave would be for my people to do something really, monumentally, wrong and stupid - i.e. separate from Canada.

 

[docbill]

I plan to use my Visa to pay some tuition in the US. Oddly enough they have an option of making a credit card payment. I figure I might as well get free flights out of it. Lets see 40,000$ US/year = about 44,000 Aeroplan points. This doesn't include all other spending. But I want to make sure they don't screw me on exchange rate, then I will get a US credit card.

Back to QC and socialization... hmmm I would pay 40,000 a year to be able to stay in Canada. Quebec was a great place to live. So I would pay 40,000 Quebec dollars per a year to study in anyone of the universities there. (JOKE ABOUT Quebec dollar, since it won't be worth much hehehe).

They make money off IMG sponsored residencies in every university in Canada. Heck why not make money off Canadians. If the number of chairs is a problem. I will bring my own chair.

BA

 

[trustwomen]

I plan to use my Visa to pay some tuition in the US. Oddly enough they have an option of making a credit card payment. I figure I might as well get free flights out of it. Lets see 40,000$ US/year = about 44,000 Aeroplan points. This doesn't include all other spending. But I want to make sure they don't screw me on exchange rate, then I will get a US credit card.

Back to QC and socialization... hmmm I would pay 40,000 a year to be able to stay in Canada. Quebec was a great place to live. So I would pay 40,000 Quebec dollars per a year to study in anyone of the universities there. (JOKE ABOUT Quebec dollar, since it won't be worth much hehehe).

They make money off IMG sponsored residencies in every university in Canada. Heck why not make money off Canadians. If the number of chairs is a problem. I will bring my own chair.

BA

I completely understand the sentiment, docbill. However, I just can't support the idea of letting people in because they are willing to pay more!! (I do like the idea of letting them in because they sign a contract to work in the province for 20 years, though, so you'd still qualify.)

Seriously, though, Canadian schools need to increase their number of seats. This is ridiculous. Less than a third of applicants get in ANYWHERE every year, and there is no way that they are the only qualified people. We are losing out on many good people like docbill, who wind up going to the States or elsewhere because it's easier to get in... and then why would they come back to the country that didn't want to train them, especially when it would mean making less money and paying more tax?

It's natural to feel loyal to the place that gave you a shot. It's natural to resent the place that didn't (do you hear me, ON and NS and NL and UdeM?!). Canada may not be hemorrhaging doctors anymore (well, Quebec still is), but we are losing our applicants!

 

[driedcaribou]

Royal Bank has been very good to me and I did not require a co-signor.

That's all I needed to say 'yes'.

 

[shetland]

With regards to the documents that one had to sign for RBC Line of Credit for medical students...

Mine did NOT state in the document that principal amount repayments is only collected after residency (this was implied and advertised on website... but I could not find it in the 7 page document).

Also did anyone find this worrying? on Page 1 under 3. Charging interest... "you agree that once you are no longer a student at an acredited post secondary educational institution, we may change the interest rate that we charge you on all unpaid amounts... Prime rate plus five percent per year.

1. it did not say whether this change is after med school or after residency...
2. a possible 5% increase to prime could end up to be 11% of interest!

Anyone notice this? Please advise...

oh if you also have any info like this on MD Management/ National bank... please post.

Thank you

 

[jefguth]

duplicate post

 

[jefguth]

I plan to use my Visa to pay some tuition in the US. Oddly enough they have an option of making a credit card payment. I figure I might as well get free flights out of it. Lets see 40,000$ US/year = about 44,000 Aeroplan points. This doesn't include all other spending. But I want to make sure they don't screw me on exchange rate, then I will get a US credit card.

Yes, the problem with using your canadian credit card (canadian $ card) for purchases in US dollars is that they typically charge a 2.5-3.0% surchagre for the currency exchange, effectively making you pay for those aeroplan miles yourself! But have a look at your service agreement to be sure. Unfortunately I am not aware of any canadian banks that offer a US$ credit card with rewards like air miles. However, once you're in the US studying you can get yourself a social security number and hopefully a US credit card with some benefits. I'd try Citi Cards, they're the only ones I've had any luck with getting approved - Canadian credit history doesn't seem to mean squat unless you can convince a bank manager to look it up and help you out. Apparently HSBC Bank offers help like this: http://www.us.hsbc.com/1/2/3/international-services/student

Oh, also never let a bank know your Canadian on a US credit card application by stating that outright, or by providing a Canadian address or telephone number, thats just asking for a rejection. That will be our little secret okay?

For any of you looking for an easy and cheap way to transfer money from your accounts in Canada to the USA electronically, I'd have a look at www.xe.com/fx . With this service you can make electronic transfers within a couple of days, without incurring bank fees, they say they don't charge a "commission", but they basically make their money by selling foreign currency to you at about 1 cent more than the going rate (a little bit better than the banks). Another great thing about this service is that you can (try to) catch the best rate during the day (they update them every 30sec) and even lock in an exchange rate for 30 days in advance (without a deposit) or even a year (with deposit).

 

[SomeGuy]

Another vote for xe.net, its quite popular among Canadians in the Ebay community. Anyone have a Paypal credit card (well, technically its a debit Mastercard, the US' Interac)? Mine gives 1.5% cash back, but I think they're giving 1% to new customers. It could be an easy way for many Canadians to get a US$ credit card issued by a US bank with a great cash back %age.

 

[ssc_396]

Unfortunately I am not aware of any canadian banks that offer a US$ credit card with rewards like air miles

I think I remember seeing that BMO has a mosaik card in US dollars

 

[jefguth]

Another vote for xe.net, its quite popular among Canadians in the Ebay community. Anyone have a Paypal credit card (well, technically its a debit Mastercard, the US' Interac)? Mine gives 1.5% cash back, but I think they're giving 1% to new customers. It could be an easy way for many Canadians to get a US$ credit card issued by a US bank with a great cash back %age.

I would be wary of using a Paypal card to make large purchases in the states. Thought I can't seem to find their exchange rates anywhere (unless u have an account), they say they are more expensive than the banks - even with a little cashback I think you would be better off finding an alternate currency exchange provider. Although, I guess you could do the exchange through someone else and then use your paypal card to get the cashback.

Also, getting the cashback option from paypal sounds like a pain - you have to have items for sale on ebay and state that you prefer paypal payments?

 

[jefguth]

I think I remember seeing that BMO has a mosaik card in US dollars

Many of the Canadian banks do offer a US dollar credit card, including BMO, however they usually charge an annual fee ($20 I think) and don't offer any rewards.

 

[docbill]

Hi Guys, thanks for all the tips. Definitely I will try to get a US dollar visa before leaving. While I am still employed and still have income.

I saw this with RBC and I figure its a good idea since I got the LOC from RBC.

http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/cards/personal/gold_us.html

 

[docbill]

This one is CIBC.. but no reward points.. unlike RBC

http://www.cibc.com/ca/visa/us-dollar-visa-card.html

 

[SomeGuy]

Paypal's exchange rates have a 4.5% spread, which is a bit higher than usual, but the 1.5% basically means I lose .75% overall on each transaction when I make a purchase in CAD$, so its not a bad deal for me.

A little research shows that its now only 1% for new customers. They also don't seem to have been enforcing the selling requirements, or so it seems.

I've had it for a couple years, so I really couldn't tell you how hard it is to get one now. If you did have a Paypal account, it probably would be one of the fastest hassle-free ways to get a US$ credit card as a Canadian with no US credit history.

 

[SMRT]

For anyone still deciding between RBC and MD Management:

I went with MD management and have been very happy with them. Numbers-wise the LOC packages are pretty much identical (prime, $150K-200K, interest-only until 1 yer after residency, etc etc).

Here's some of the good things about MDM that convinced me to go with them:
1. They only deal with med students, residents, doctors and their families. They understand your situation and I found that they know more about financial issues in med school and residency than med students and residents do.
2. You always get consistent answers regardless of who you talk to. I found that RBC was often inconsistent.
3. They are non-profit and the financial advisors are non-commission. When I went to talk to RBC I felt like I was being sold a used car.
4. The way the accounts works in terms of withdrawals, cheques etc. With MDM, the LOC is your chequing account. You use it just like a bank account wrt ATM card, cheques, deposits etc. Each month, your interest payment is debited from your LOC. Compare this to RBC where you keep a separate chequing account that you tranfer money into and then make monthly LOC interest payments from. It is a fairly minor thing, but it means one less monthly payment to remember and not having to worry if there is enough money in your chequing account.

And no I don't work for MDM

 

[docbill]

got my RBC visa today.. SWEEETTTT...

BAnks are tryng to sell you business.. there is no surprise with that. The difference is once you have a relationship with a bank it means a lot in the future when you apply for morgage etc... you can even get your fees waved by being a "high valued customer", at least that is the way my sister describes it to me.

 

[takedown]

Just googling something and found this thread and registered just to answer it!

I've been with RBC for a long time & initially got my line of credit with them (Toronto branch University & Dundas), but I have since switched to National Bank MD Management LOC since Royal Bank was starting to piss me off. I'll list pros & cons for both.

RBC
Pros
1. Lots of branches, machines, etc. They're everywhere so access is good.
2. Platinum Avion is a great card (but you don't need LOC to use it. I still use my card even though I no longer have LOC with them)
3. Online banking is very convenient, with a nice format.
4. The banks are nice. (kind of important)
5. That's about it.

Cons
1. The guy who handles the lines of credit at the Toronto branch is an idiot.
2. They require yearly proof that you are still a medical student/resident. My wife didn't send it to them, and they just cut off her line of credit without warning.
3. They charge you service fees unless you specifically call them and ask them not to. And then you have to call annually to remind them to exempt you from fees.
4. If you use more than 2 LOC cheques per month, they charge you a service fee.
5. When you run out of LOC cheques, you have to pay for more.
6. You cannot use your LOC like an account i.e. you must constantly transfer funds from your LOC to your chequing account if you want to automatically pay for stuff through monthly payments, etc. And if you receive your salary automatically to your account, you have to check every two weeks and then transfer it to your LOC.
7. If you forget to transfer LOC funds to your chequing account and someone withdraws payment from it (eg. LOC interest payment), you are charged an "overdrawn" charge (it's expensive too!)

MD Management (National Bank)
Pros
1. LOC is like a chequing account. My banking is so much easier now. All my payments come out of it without my worrying about being "overdrawn". My LOC interest payments automatically come out of my LOC.
2. MD Management Platinum Mastercard (points card) annual fee waived for 2 years.
3. If you have problems you can directly call the National Bank rep for the credit line or speak to MD Management people.
4. NO SERVICE FEES!!! At all!
5. Don't require annual proof that you're a resident/med student
6. No fees for using LOC cheques. Plus you get 200 FREE cheques per year. Once I run out of cheques, I just order more.

Cons
1. Not that many National Bank branches (NB is based in montreal)
2. The banks they do have aren't that nice
3. Online banking format not as nice as RBC

Like I said, I'm quite happy with MD Management NBC LOC, but neither of them are totally perfect. I do like my current LOC much better than RBC though. RBC used to be really good, but they've just pissed me off way too much. To have to pay a few hundred dollars in interest fees per month and then they also try to gouge you for service fees just took the cake. Then when my LOC cheques ran out, it took one year (I kid you not) after ordering new cheques for me to receive them. Then they charge me if I used more than 2 cheques per month. Forget it. Anyways, my recommendation is to go with MD Management & get the RBC PLatinum Avion card. I like collecting points for travel.

I hope this helps. Let my suffering help you to avoid needless pain.

 

[tussy]

I have the Scotiabank "professional plan" which has been great. I signed up with them 9 years ago when i was a first year medical student and they've been really good to me. They have one person in the city that only deals with the "professional clients" (basically med students, residents, law students, etc.). They offer up to $150,000 and interest is prime (they advertise a little higher, but you can always talk them into prime). The account works just like a chequing account. I consolidated all my canada studnet loans into it once i lost my student status (ie. start of residency) and it wasn't a problem. The fees aren't bad -- for the package with the gold card (earn scotiapoints) unlimited internet banking, cheques, everything else included, is only $9.95/month. They have a 2.95/month plan that doens't include the gold card.

I don't know the details of what the other banks offer, but I have had good service with scotia.

 

[takedown]

The fees aren't bad -- for the package with the gold card (earn scotiapoints) unlimited internet banking, cheques, everything else included, is only $9.95/month. They have a 2.95/month plan that doens't include the gold card.

NEVER pay fees! I don't quite understand how you could have read my post stating that there are absolutely no fees for MD management NBC LOC as well as no fees at RBC (if you ask), and then respond by saying that your fees at Bank of Nova Scotia "aren't bad".

Why would you pay service fees when they're already making interest fees off of you every month?