Landing a hospital pharmacist job as a new graduate?

[Sabril]

Maybe, they're big on nepotism and that sort of thing (they interview all students who rotate there and apply for their residency). Of course, what happens if I get both an acceptance to a residency program as well as a job offer (or the prospect of one) to work at a hospital as a new grad? I would really be hard-pressed to choose to do a residency over starting FT work, especially if I had an offer in-hand.

You will just decline the residency. I know people will freak out over this, but really all that it is is that you are not allowed to ever participate in the match again (which is fine because you don't seem to want to do that anyways once you got the job)

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[Hedgehog32]

BTW @Sabril, I noticed you mentioned that home infusion pharmacy could be a possibility. Do you know if it's really hard to break into that as a new grad? Is there any hope if I apply all over the country?

 

[mustang sally]

Thanks for posting; that's encouraging to hear. If you don't mind, can I ask what state or region you're in?

Wisconsin. It is almost all small rural towns (outside of Madison/Green Bay/Milwaukee) and a lot of them have their own hospitals.

 

[Sabril]

BTW @Sabril, I noticed you mentioned that home infusion pharmacy could be a possibility. Do you know if it's really hard to break into that as a new grad? Is there any hope if I apply all over the country?

I don't work in home infusion though I know people that do. My boss used to own one. After the other poster talked about his/her experience with LTC (and sounded credible enough), I would rather pursue that if hospital/residency is not an option.

The other poster said LTC may be a stepping stone to a hospital position, while most infusion places are the opposite, a "step down" for hospital pharmacists. Like Dred said, he may consider it once he's done with hospital, but that's because he's the guy that's been there and done that. You may land a job in home infusion with tech experience, though young guns like you probably will feel like you hit a dead end pretty fast and has no opportunity to advance.

Also most openings in home infusion are in small, private businesses. While there are certainly issues at every work place, being a pharmacist at a small place is certainly no small headache. You will have to be the judge, jury and executioner of almost everything and not just simply "letting upper management deal with it."

 

[Hels2007]

PS - Nebraska sucks

 

[Dred Pirate]

do you know why all the corn in Iowa leans to the west?

because nebraska sucks

 

[spacecowgirl]

I'm confused about not wanting to spend a year in residency (and I appreciate that is not a job guarantee) vs being willing to move to South Bumblefck for possibly a few years. In 1 year you'll be the same age but with better job prospects vs not doing a residency. If a hospital job is what you really want, the most expedient path in 2019 is via residency.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I'm confused about not wanting to spend a year in residency (and I appreciate that is not a job guarantee) vs being willing to move to South Bumblefck for possibly a few years. In 1 year you'll be the same age but with better job prospects vs not doing a residency. If a hospital job is what you really want, the most expedient path in 2019 is via residency.

I think a big part of my reluctance to do a residency comes down to not wanting to work the insane schedule that the residents at my hospital work, plus all the projects on top of that. Also, the reputation of my hospital's residency program isn't that great (they accept 10-12 residents per year and lots of people say they're just used as cheap labor for the pharmacy - the payor mix demographics in my area are also pretty bad... ~90% Medicare/Medicaid/indigent, so maybe that has something to do with it).

I was also looking forward to getting a major surgery that I won't be able to take the time off to have done during my residency program, so in a way I guess I'm just looking forward to finally getting started with my "adult" life, so to speak.

 

[lane one]

I think you should actually go for a night shift position. You'd be surprised how many big institutions get burned by hiring PGY1 grads that bounce as soon as they get a better offer. Sometimes they're desperate to fill the space and can't wait til the next residency class graduates. We've actually been hiring more new grads to fill the spots recently because they're so much more reliable. They've got something to prove so most of them bust it. Meanwhile the PGY1 grads mope around because they did a residency and have to work nights. Entitled much? In a hard to retain position, which would you rather have? Plus if the hospital is big enough you'll have at least 2 experienced pharmacists to lean on. Definitely would not do it if it's a solo gig though.

 

[greenteapanacea]

Saw your post on another thread. I'll be more detailed here.

I'm currently a little over 1 year out of school. I was hired as a full-time night shift pharmacist (7on/off) at the same suburban community hospital where I interned during school.

Pros of my schedule: large amounts of time to travel, study new subjects (eg foreign languages, personal finance, etc), time to work on side projects (investing, real estate), time to support a second job (per diem at another pharmacy = $$$), learning the entire pharmacy workflow with a minimal crew

Cons of my schedule: lack of exposure to leadership, decreased opportunities to do "clinical" work (I can't leave the pharmacy to round or do patient counseling), possible damage to health

 

[Hedgehog32]

Saw your post on another thread. I'll be more detailed here.

I'm currently a little over 1 year out of school. I was hired as a full-time night shift pharmacist (7on/off) at the same suburban community hospital where I interned during school.

Pros of my schedule: large amounts of time to travel, study new subjects (eg foreign languages, personal finance, etc), time to work on side projects (investing, real estate), time to support a second job (per diem at another pharmacy = $$$), learning the entire pharmacy workflow with a minimal crew

Cons of my schedule: lack of exposure to leadership, decreased opportunities to do "clinical" work (I can't leave the pharmacy to round or do patient counseling), possible damage to health

@greenteapanacea, Thanks for posting. The list pros you wrote basically sums up why I would actually enjoy working a 7-on/7-off nightshift position at a hospital more than a standard M-F, 9-5 position. Congratulations on getting hired on at the hospital you interned at. Unfortunately, since the hospital I work as an intern at has a residency program that accepts/graduates 12+ residents every year (and because there's another hospital with a residency program about 30 minutes away), the upper-level management told me that they won't hire non-residency-trained pharmacists for ANY positions anymore. So it looks like I'll just have to start firing off applications to hospitals all over the country and hope that at least a few of them would be willing to hire a new grad into such a position.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I think you should actually go for a night shift position. You'd be surprised how many big institutions get burned by hiring PGY1 grads that bounce as soon as they get a better offer. Sometimes they're desperate to fill the space and can't wait til the next residency class graduates. We've actually been hiring more new grads to fill the spots recently because they're so much more reliable. They've got something to prove so most of them bust it. Meanwhile the PGY1 grads mope around because they did a residency and have to work nights. Entitled much? In a hard to retain position, which would you rather have? Plus if the hospital is big enough you'll have at least 2 experienced pharmacists to lean on. Definitely would not do it if it's a solo gig though.

@lane one I just wanted to let you know that I sent you a PM yesterday

 

[greenteapanacea]

@greenteapanacea, Thanks for posting. The list pros you wrote basically sums up why I would actually enjoy working a 7-on/7-off nightshift position at a hospital more than a standard M-F, 9-5 position. Congratulations on getting hired on at the hospital you interned at. Unfortunately, since the hospital I work as an intern at has a residency program that accepts/graduates 12+ residents every year (and because there's another hospital with a residency program about 30 minutes away), the upper-level management told me that they won't hire non-residency-trained pharmacists for ANY positions anymore. So it looks like I'll just have to start firing off applications to hospitals all over the country and hope that at least a few of them would be willing to hire a new grad into such a position.

Start with rural hospitals that within states you're already licensed for. Even per diem jobs are going to help you.

 

[Sparda29]

I graduated 2012. I saw an ad for a pharmacist position at a small hospital in the newspaper so I sent my resume. I didn't take the Naplex yet at that point so the director told me he couldn't hire me but to call him back once I got my license.

I called him the day I got my license, he asked his director friend at another hospital to hire me.

The main thing that helped me a lot was having good recommendations from preceptors, especially the influential preceptors who are well known in the NYC area.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Start with rural hospitals that within states you're already licensed for. Even per diem jobs are going to help you.

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I won't graduate until May of 2020, but I'll apply to pretty much everything I can find. Do you think it's too early to start applying for positions now? Should I graduate and get licensed in at least one state first before I start submitting applications?

 

[Hedgehog32]

I graduated 2012. I saw an ad for a pharmacist position at a small hospital in the newspaper so I sent my resume. I didn't take the Naplex yet at that point so the director told me he couldn't hire me but to call him back once I got my license.

I called him the day I got my license, he asked his director friend at another hospital to hire me.

The main thing that helped me a lot was having good recommendations from preceptors, especially the influential preceptors who are well known in the NYC area.

Way to go! Hopefully I'll be able to find something as well, even if it's in a rural state/region. I guess the good news is that I'm single and don't have any kids, so I can basically move to anywhere at all to get that first job.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Sparda is an exception. Even back in 2012.

 

[Sparda29]

Sparda is an exception. Even back in 2012.

Maybe its my resume format. I took my uncle's resume template (he always had an easy time finding jobs in his industry) and changed it with my info. I've compared it to some of my coworkers resumes and I gotta say, I've seen some weird resume formats out there.

I see people adding in color lines, pretty fonts, profile pics.

My resume is one of the plainest and most boring looking format out there and its 3 pages long.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Maybe its my resume format. I took my uncle's resume template (he always had an easy time finding jobs in his industry) and changed it with my info. I've compared it to some of my coworkers resumes and I gotta say, I've seen some weird resume formats out there.

I see people adding in color lines, pretty fonts, profile pics.

My resume is one of the plainest and most boring looking format out there and its 3 pages long.

I always used to hear that resumes should generally be no longer than a page. Does that apply for pharmacists as well? (unless you're Sparda)

 

[Hels2007]

I always used to hear that resumes should generally be no longer than a page. Does that apply for pharmacists as well? (unless you're Sparda)

Maybe if you are fresh out of school. For anyone who has done more than one job, it's going to be pretty much impossible... I would say two pages are the norm for experienced professionals. Three is pushing it, you should be able to condense what you have done to two, maybe two and a half pages.

 

[Sparda29]

I always used to hear that resumes should generally be no longer than a page. Does that apply for pharmacists as well? (unless you're Sparda)

I'm only listing jobs going back till I became a pharmacist, so about a 7 year history. I have 7 jobs listed (1 active full time, 4 active per diem, 2 past full time). And under each spot I have the job responsibilities and accomplishments listed.

Now something I have read is that, it may be unnecessary to put those job responsibilities since those are generally universally known in the profession.

 

[Hels2007]

Now something I have read is that, it may be unnecessary to put those job responsibilities since those are generally universally known in the profession.

I'd say it depends on the position. Some are pretty clearly defined and largely the same at every company, some are very different from place to place so you have to say exactly what you did... And it depends on whether some things are more relevant to the position you are applying for, so they are worth highlighting... My WAG summary is three lines total, my last industry job is half a page long. And I have two different versions of my resume for two different types of positions (both within industry, but different departments and responsibilities)…

 

[greenteapanacea]

I'd say it depends on the position. Some are pretty clearly defined and largely the same at every company, some are very different from place to place so you have to say exactly what you did... And it depends on whether some things are more relevant to the position you are applying for, so they are worth highlighting... My WAG summary is three lines total, my last industry job is half a page long. And I have two different versions of my resume for two different types of positions (both within industry, but different departments and responsibilities)…

I feel like I have more to write about from my industry/government internships than actual full time pharmacy work

 

[Hedgehog32]

Here's a brief update for anyone who's been following this thread. A few days ago, I talked to a recruiter who works with a fairly large hospital network in the southwest. She said that the job market has gotten so competitive in states like AZ that when she posted a job opening last Tuesday for a standard inpatient hospital pharmacy staffing position, they received over 40 applications for it overnight. Since at least 5 or 6 of those applicants had completed PGY-2 residencies, she said that choosing which applicant to hire was "basically going to be a crapshoot" unless one of the applicants really fumbles their interview.

This was for a rather large metro city in the southwest. While they don't receive quite as many applicants for positions posted for hospitals in smaller towns, even the middle-of-nowhere positions are receiving totals of 30+ applicants (including at least a handful of residency program graduates). She recommended that I either complete a PGY-2 and gain at least 2-3 years of experience elsewhere before applying to positions posted for their metro hospitals or consider transitioning into another career entirely (she actually suggested looking into PA school -- no, I am not kidding but I wish I was). I feel basically the same way about going back to school to get another degree as I do about completing a residency, though.

 

[rxkrafted]

Here's a brief update for anyone who's been following this thread. A few days ago, I talked to a recruiter who works with a fairly large hospital network in the southwest. She said that the job market has gotten so competitive in states like AZ that when she posted a job opening last Tuesday for a standard inpatient hospital pharmacy staffing position, they received over 40 applications for it overnight. Since at least 5 or 6 of those applicants had completed PGY-2 residencies, she said that choosing which applicant to hire was "basically going to be a crapshoot" unless one of the applicants really fumbles their interview.

This was for a rather large metro city in the southwest. While they don't receive quite as many applicants for positions posted for hospitals in smaller towns, even the middle-of-nowhere positions are receiving totals of 30+ applicants (including at least a handful of residency program graduates). She recommended that I either complete a PGY-2 and gain at least 2-3 years of experience elsewhere before applying to positions posted for their metro hospitals or consider transitioning into another career entirely (she actually suggested looking into PA school -- no, I am not kidding but I wish I was). I feel basically the same way about going back to school to get another degree as I do about completing a residency, though.

For what kind of position was this for? Hopefully not a staff or regular clinical position. Is this what pharmacy has come to … ? We need to do a PGY2 specialty to be qualified for general clinical stuff?

 

[Hedgehog32]

For what kind of position was this for? Hopefully not a staff or regular clinical position. Is this what pharmacy has come to … ? We need to do a PGY2 specialty to be qualified for general clinical stuff?

Yeah, it was just an inpatient staffing position. Even the recruiter said she's been surprised at the number of applications that standard positions like that one have been getting. The position we talked about was for a hospital just outside of Phoenix, AZ. She said that Tucson isn't quite as competitive but that even those positions usually end up getting at least 30 applications before they're filled (as compared to the ~40 that the job posting for the hospital outside of Phoenix received overnight). Job listings posted for facilities rural areas have often been receiving 20-30 applications before they're filled as well (again, not 30-40 apps overnight but for the entire duration that the job listing is posted).

Edited to add -- recruiter said that even 2 years ago, it wasn't this bad (in terms of the sheer number of applications they receive whenever a job ad is posted). She had a very "I don't know what to tell you" sort of attitude when we started talking about how apparently even completing a PGY-2 isn't enough to differentiate one's self as an applicant, considering that they're now receiving more and more applications from PGY-2 grads whenever they post a job listing.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Yeah, it was just an inpatient staffing position. Even the recruiter said she's been surprised at the number of applications that standard positions like that one have been getting. The position we talked about was for a hospital just outside of Phoenix, AZ. She said that Tucson isn't quite as competitive but that even those positions usually end up getting at least 30 applications before they're filled (as compared to the ~40 that the job posting for the hospital outside of Phoenix received overnight). Job listings posted for facilities rural areas have often been receiving 20-30 applications before they're filled as well (again, not 30-40 apps overnight but for the entire duration that the job listing is posted).

Edited to add -- recruiter said that even 2 years ago, it wasn't this bad (in terms of the sheer number of applications they receive whenever a job ad is posted). She had a very "I don't know what to tell you" sort of attitude when we started talking about how apparently even completing a PGY-2 isn't enough to differentiate one's self as an applicant, considering that they're now receiving more and more applications from PGY-2 grads whenever they post a job listing.

Are these PGY-2 grads unemployed and looking for work, or are they already employed but looking to move to a more desirable location?

 

[Hedgehog32]

Are these PGY-2 grads unemployed and looking for work, or are they already employed but looking to move to a more desirable location?

That's a good question; the recruiter didn't specify what the PGY-2 grads' employment situations were.

 

[Hels2007]

Are these PGY-2 grads unemployed and looking for work, or are they already employed but looking to move to a more desirable location?

If they are applying for a regular inpatient staff position, something tells me that even if they are employed, it is not in a clinical position that required their PGY-2 training... either way, it's either wasted time or it's credential inflation, and neither is a good thing, for them or for the profession as a whole.

 

[deleted562805]

That's a good question; the recruiter didn't specify what the PGY-2 grads' employment situations were.

Man, this job market is truly become a nightmare. PGY-2 just for staffing. All that clinical knowledge is a waste. I wonder what PGY-2 these applicants pursued. Was it Critical Care? I think that residency is least competitive compared to ID, Oncology or ER

 

[Hels2007]

I also have to wonder how many people go into PGY-2 not because they are genuinely interested in a particular area but because they want to delay facing the job market for another year.

PS I just looked up the stats for PGY-2 positions and I am, frankly, astonished. Can this country actually absorb 250 ambulatory care specialists, 190 critical care specialists, 102 oncology specialists every year in the roles that they are, supposedly, specifically preparing for? No wonder PGY-2 grads are competing for regular jobs...

 

[jecpharm89]

2 years of residency just for an inpatient staff position! Unreal. Pharmacy students that continue on are so foolish.

 

[rxkrafted]

Loll. Board certified pharmacotherapy specialist and oncology specialist.. Spends majority of time verifying orders and doing renal dose adjustments.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Man, this job market is truly become a nightmare. PGY-2 just for staffing. All that clinical knowledge is a waste. I wonder what PGY-2 these applicants pursued. Was it Critical Care? I think that residency is least competitive compared to ID, Oncology or ER

That's another good question. The recruiter didn't say what specialty their residencies were in.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Also, here's another thing I just remembered. She had also said that last year at Midyear, she was surprised at the number of older/experienced pharmacists she met who were planning on going back to attend residencies (she didn't say if they were unemployed or not).

I also had a similar conversation with a recruiter from a hospital network in Alaska (think the really undesirable areas -- Bethel, Barrow, etc.) who said that she had received applications from several experienced pharmacists for a staff position that had been posted recently and that they would therefore not be considering applications from new grads. She didn't say if they had completed residencies or not - just that several of the applicants were experienced pharmacists.

 

[spacecowgirl]

May the odds be ever in your favor, y'all.

 

[Hedgehog32]

May the odds be ever in your favor, y'all.

What was especially discouraging was when I asked her (upon being told that PGY-2 grads were now competing for inpatient staffing positions) what I could do to make myself a competitive candidate for one of these jobs, because that's when she said that the process of selecting a candidate basically comes down to a crapshoot on the hospital's part and that maybe I should consider PA school ("if only you were calling me asking about PA jobs, I could take about placement opportunities here or here or here, blah blah blah").

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

Man, this job market is truly become a nightmare. PGY-2 just for staffing. All that clinical knowledge is a waste. I wonder what PGY-2 these applicants pursued. Was it Critical Care? I think that residency is least competitive compared to ID, Oncology or ER

From what I've read, critical care is the worst specialty for job prospects. Oncology has the best job market.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Also, here's another thing I just remembered. She had also said that last year at Midyear, she was surprised at the number of older/experienced pharmacists she met who were planning on going back to attend residencies (she didn't say if they were unemployed or not).

I also had a similar conversation with a recruiter from a hospital network in Alaska (think the really undesirable areas -- Bethel, Barrow, etc.) who said that she had received applications from several experienced pharmacists for a staff position that had been posted recently and that they would therefore not be considering applications from new grads. She didn't say if they had completed residencies or not - just that several of the applicants were experienced pharmacists.

And this is exactly why you need to go all-in and try to get a residency. If you are a new grad then you won’t be considered for a job because there are plenty of people more experienced than you looking as well. If you somehow find a job it will most likely be a retail or hospital staffing job and you’d have no chance at lateral or vertical career movement because you don’t have the residency credential, and if you are an already working pharmacist trying to go back to do a residency you will be viewed as damaged goods with a lot of baggage and you won’t get a shot with any reputable program (not to mention that droves of students are all applying for residency now because they are starting to hear about the saturated/shrinking job market so it is getting much more competitive).

Pretty much boom or bust for all pharmacy students now- get a fellowship/residency or you’re better off switching careers altogether.

 

[GatorPharm]

If that hospital hires a PGY2 for the staffing position, they're stupid. 90+% of the time the person is likely to jump ship for another position in their specialty area. Is it worth having to refill the position every year to say you have so many ~residency trained~ pharmacists? Super misguided and out of touch leadership making dumb hiring decisions.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

If that hospital hires a PGY2 for the staffing position, they're stupid. 90+% of the time the person is likely to jump ship for another position in their specialty area. Is it worth having to refill the position every year to say you have so many ~residency trained~ pharmacists? Super misguided and out of touch leadership making dumb hiring decisions.

They are already thinking two steps ahead when making these hires because they know that the job market is contracting. Not a dumb decision when you know the people who work for you are trapped in their jobs since there’s nothing else to apply to.

 

[GatorPharm]

They are already thinking two steps ahead when making these hires because they know that the job market is contracting. Not a dumb decision when you know the people who work for you are trapped in their jobs since there’s nothing else to apply to.

I think it depends on the geographical area and the PGY2 specialty area. If it's actually an in-demand specialty, I wouldn't consider them trapped the same way your dime-a-dozen crit care PGY2 is. And regardless, even if the new hire is "trapped" there for 2-3 years instead of 1 year, they still will always have their foot out the door. Like someone mentioned above, hiring a new grad could gain you someone who will work hard to prove you were right to hire them as opposed to someone who goes home and surfs Indeed.com every day and bitches to their former co-residents about having to verify orders and check cart fill.

This is all just from my experience with the hospital system where I work, so who knows, could be different elsewhere.

 

[Hedgehog32]

And this is exactly why you need to go all-in and try to get a residency. If you are a new grad then you won’t be considered for a job because there are plenty of people more experienced than you looking as well. If you somehow find a job it will most likely be a retail or hospital staffing job and you’d have no chance at lateral or vertical career movement because you don’t have the residency credential, and if you are an already working pharmacist trying to go back to do a residency you will be viewed as damaged goods with a lot of baggage and you won’t get a shot with any reputable program (not to mention that droves of students are all applying for residency now because they are starting to hear about the saturated/shrinking job market so it is getting much more competitive).

Pretty much boom or bust for all pharmacy students now- get a fellowship/residency or you’re better off switching careers altogether.

From the way the recruiter talked, though, even having the residency credential on my resume might not be enough to get a job (at least in a desirable area) since there are apparently so many other residency-trained graduates that are applying for the same positions that it's becoming hard for them to differentiate themselves from each other. I guess that's why she outright suggested putting myself through the misery of doing a few more years of school to do something else entirely, which doesn't sound appealing at all if I'm being totally honest.

Another thing to consider is even if I do complete a PGY-1, will I then be obligated to do a PGY-2 as well if I really want a job, since apparently even PGY-1 applicants are becoming a dime a dozen in larger metro areas? Keep in mind that the recruiter said that out of ~40 applicants they received overnight for the position that was posted last week, lots of the applicants were PGY-1 graduates.

I did do a search on Indeed for PA jobs and was surprised at how many positions are posted for PAs to work in large metropolitan cities, though. However, with the number of PA schools graduating students every year, I can't help but think that their job market will eventually be saturated as well.

 

[Hedgehog32]

If that hospital hires a PGY2 for the staffing position, they're stupid. 90+% of the time the person is likely to jump ship for another position in their specialty area. Is it worth having to refill the position every year to say you have so many ~residency trained~ pharmacists? Super misguided and out of touch leadership making dumb hiring decisions.

From what the recruiter said, they're probably going to hire one of the PGY-2 graduates for the position simply because they're the most competitive applicants without regard for any other factors (such as the risk of what you mentioned).

 

[Hels2007]

Another thing to consider is even if I do complete a PGY-1, will I then be obligated to do a PGY-2 as well if I really want a job, since apparently even PGY-1 applicants are becoming a dime a dozen in larger metro areas? Keep in mind that the recruiter said that out of ~40 applicants they received overnight for the position that was posted last week, lots of the applicants were PGY-1 graduates.

You will be more competitive with PGY-1 than with nothing. And while in residency, you will be a) getting that credential; b) getting hospital work experience as a pharmacist; c) fulfilling your desire of working in a hospital and d) actually have a steady flow of money, even if it is not a full pharmacist's salary, it's better to have a stipend guaranteed for 12 months, than to spend 7 months looking for a job without any guarantee of success.

Also, right now you write almost as if you matching would be a given, is that confidence based on solid facts? At the very least, you can try applying first to see how you do, and to see how you interview, might as well get some practice convincing the same kind of people you will have to convince to give you a job. And with residency match rates being about 66%, while applications for a single hospital job being 20+, it looks like it's way easier to land a residency than a real hospital job... If in the process you decide you really, really, really don't want to do residency - I think you can just enter no programs into the match and thus assure yourself you will not be matched? At least you will get exposure to other programs, rather than drawing conclusions about residencies from the one program you have seen...

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

From the way the recruiter talked, though, even having the residency credential on my resume might not be enough to get a job (at least in a desirable area) since there are apparently so many other residency-trained graduates that are applying for the same positions that it's becoming hard for them to differentiate themselves from each other. I guess that's why she outright suggested putting myself through the misery of doing a few more years of school to do something else entirely, which doesn't sound appealing at all if I'm being totally honest.

Another thing to consider is even if I do complete a PGY-1, will I then be obligated to do a PGY-2 as well if I really want a job, since apparently even PGY-1 applicants are becoming a dime a dozen in larger metro areas? Keep in mind that the recruiter said that out of ~40 applicants they received overnight for the position that was posted last week, lots of the applicants were PGY-1 graduates.

I did do a search on Indeed for PA jobs and was surprised at how many positions are posted for PAs to work in large metropolitan cities, though. However, with the number of PA schools graduating students every year, I can't help but think that their job market will eventually be saturated as well.

No you are correct. I am not at all saying that doing residency will guarantee anything, but that it just “betters your chances” of finding a job.

If you don’t do residency then you won’t even be having these problems to deal with. You heard it yourself, if PGY-1’s and PGY-2’s are struggling to differentiate themselves in this job market, then what exactly can a new grad bring to the table for an employer? Absolutely nothing. If anything, the employer will be using your resume as toilet paper.

 

[Hedgehog32]

You will be more competitive with PGY-1 than with nothing. And while in residency, you will be a) getting that credential; b) getting hospital work experience as a pharmacist; c) fulfilling your desire of working in a hospital and d) actually have a steady flow of money, even if it is not a full pharmacist's salary, it's better to have a stipend guaranteed for 12 months, than to spend 7 months looking for a job without any guarantee of success.

Also, right now you write almost as if you matching would be a given, is that confidence based on solid facts? At the very least, you can try applying first to see how you do, and to see how you interview, might as well get some practice convincing the same kind of people you will have to convince to give you a job. And with residency match rates being about 66%, while applications for a single hospital job being 20+, it looks like it's way easier to land a residency than a real hospital job... If in the process you decide you really, really, really don't want to do residency - I think you can just enter no programs into the match and thus assure yourself you will not be matched? At least you will get exposure to other programs, rather than drawing conclusions about residencies from the one program you have seen...

To be honest (and I guess this would also be a response to your last PM), I was just hoping to be able to go ahead and start living a more standard "adult" life in regards to income, schedule, etc. There are several things I've been putting off that cost a decent chunk of money to have done (e.g., a surgery that I've been wanting/needing to have done for several years) that I won't have the time or money to do as a resident. Also, I really don't want to work the insane schedules that the residents work at the hospital I (used to) intern at. I worked instances of 7-10 day stretches last year as an intern while also studying for school and working on assignments, and I remember how tired and miserable I would feel towards the end of them, and so I just really wanted to avoid experiencing that sort of thing again. Also, at my age (almost 32), I just want to finally start working and be done with school and training altogether.

Edited to add: I didn't mean to come across as if being offered a residency position would be self-assured. I guess I was thinking in terms of absolute options (I.e., either do a residency program or try to apply for jobs as a new grad).

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I think it depends on the geographical area and the PGY2 specialty area. If it's actually an in-demand specialty, I wouldn't consider them trapped the same way your dime-a-dozen crit care PGY2 is. And regardless, even if the new hire is "trapped" there for 2-3 years instead of 1 year, they still will always have their foot out the door. Like someone mentioned above, hiring a new grad could gain you someone who will work hard to prove you were right to hire them as opposed to someone who goes home and surfs Indeed.com every day and bitches to their former co-residents about having to verify orders and check cart fill.

This is all just from my experience with the hospital system where I work, so who knows, could be different elsewhere.

I see your point. But the thing is, at some point even “PGY-2 + 2-3 years of relevant experience” won’t even give you mobility because there will be no jobs at all anymore. This is because where there is an “in demand” specialty, pharmacists, like the unimaginative bunch they are, will flock towards it and start a bunch of residencies or board certifications in that area. So pretty soon when they post even specialist positions, there will be 40 applicants with PGY-2 and 2-3 years experience in that specialty area applying for the job. It’s going to suck for the 39 that’s don’t get it. And to the PGY-1’s and new grads (ha, you think you really have any chance?), your resumes won’t even be looked at.

 

[deleted562805]

I see your point. But the thing is, at some point even “PGY-2 + 2-3 years of relevant experience” won’t even give you mobility because there will be no jobs at all anymore. This is because where there is an “in demand” specialty, pharmacists, like the unimaginative bunch they are, will flock towards it and start a bunch of residencies or board certifications in that area. So pretty soon when they post even specialist positions, there will be 40 applicants with PGY-2 and 2-3 years experience in that specialty area applying for the job. It’s going to suck for the 39 that’s don’t get it. And to the PGY-1’s and new grads (ha, you think you really have any chance?), your resumes won’t even be looked at.

Then some unimaginative pharmacist will push PGY-3.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I see your point. But the thing is, at some point even “PGY-2 + 2-3 years of relevant experience” won’t even give you mobility because there will be no jobs at all anymore. This is because where there is an “in demand” specialty, pharmacists, like the unimaginative bunch they are, will flock towards it and start a bunch of residencies or board certifications in that area. So pretty soon when they post even specialist positions, there will be 40 applicants with PGY-2 and 2-3 years experience in that specialty area applying for the job. It’s going to suck for the 39 that’s don’t get it. And to the PGY-1’s and new grads (ha, you think you really have any chance?), your resumes won’t even be looked at.

According to the recruiter, this is essentially a dead-accurate description of their mentality when it comes to evaluating applicants for new staffing positions. They're not thinking, "Hmmm, these PGY-2 grads will probably leave as soon as they receive an offer to take a position practicing in their specialty"; instead, they're choosing to interview and hire these candidates simply on the basis of them being the most qualified applicants in terms of both training and experience.

Also, that's another reason I'm not particularly enthusiastic about doing a residency (assuming I'd be competitive enough to be offered a spot in one anyways). If doing a residency led to the prospect of being able to get a really good pharmacist job in a really desirable area (I.e., the concept of doing extra training for a better deal, to put it colloquially), that would be one thing... but on the contrary, it sounds as if it's gotten to the point where residency program completion is a necessary resume credential to have just to qualify for what would've been considered an entry-level hospital pharmacist job 5+ years ago.

BTW @Hels2007, I've been thinking more about what you said in your previous post about me coming across as if me matching into a residency position would be a given. With over 1400 residency programs out there, I had figured that if I applied broadly enough, I'd get at least a couple interviews and hopefully an offer to attend a program somewhere (should I decide I want to take the residency path in the first place). However, in your brutally honest opinion and having had a chance to review my CV, what would you say my chances of matching into a residency somewhere are? My GPA (which I don't think I've mentioned) is above average.

If you recall, I have paid intern experience and a leadership credit on my CV. Would these two credentials combined with a solidly above-average GPA make me a competitive candidate for residency, in your opinion? Please feel free to be brutally honest and objective.