Lack of Honesty in the NRMP and Matching process

[Whiteman]

Hi everyone,

This is not a post meant to complain and whine, but to let know some truths which somehow have been IGNORED by the NRMP administration and all the other organizations involved in the matching process. I am seriously considering writing a letter to some Journal or filing in a complaint to the NRMP.

I hear the story year after year about how APPLICANTS are supposed to be favored in the matching. I, however, don't consider this to be the case. As a matter of FACT, IT is my opinion based on my personal experience and from what I have heard from a lot of other applicants that their is DEFINITELY a lot of SHADINESS in this whole process. By this I mean program directors DON'T withhold to high standards of ethics when it comes to the kind of questions asked to the applicant and the coercive tactics that can be used by certain program to make you rank them # 1 or you won't be ranked, among a lot of other things.

This is my 2nd time applying through the match. My first time around I wasn't succesful because I didn't interview in a lot of programs and I only had marginally "qualified" stats. To this you also have to add that I pursued my studies at a Medical School in the 1/3 lower tier of competitiveness. However, I was assuming that I would be ranked by my Medical School's residency program. Unfortunately, to my surprise I didn't match with them either and applicants from a NON-AMC medical school in Mexico were taken into the program. This was their way of punishing me because I carried out electives at other institutions. This is the first example of coerciveness I experienced by the program. Also, during the time I rotated at my program they were constantly harassing me on how would I rank them.

The 4 years of Medical School were a grueling process for me. Not having matched the first time around, I took the year off to pursue RESEARCH. This of course was without any pay. So basically 4 years of Medical Debt from an AAMC medical school, and then a year off without pay. The 2nd time around I applied to all the programs within the field. I got a total of 9 interviews. I spent close to $2500 in ERAS for Prelim and Categorical Spots in my specialty of interest. I also recruited a Matching service which charged me $1800 to offer me their services. To this you have to add the expenses of flying out to all these programs, food, transportation, lodging, etc. In addition, I had to reatake the Clinical Skills twice (The only test I failed) However, after ranking all the programs I encountered the inconvenient once again of not having matched.

I finally was able to secure a position in the scramble process. However, this was from a program to which I had already applied during the Match, but had not initially offered me an interview. In addition, I had also e-mailed them to say that I was very interested in their program and would like to interview there, but the e-mail went unreplied. This clearly demonstrates to me how all programs deal in a very hypocritical way.

The "motto" of the NRMP favoring the applicant is ONLY TRUE for applicants with exceptional STATS. For those of us with marginal stats, it is an unfair process since we will always be at the end of ranking lists.

I, HOWEVER, Notice how a LOT OF FMG's with exceptional numbers are interviewed in a lot of these programs, and end up obtaining positions.
I think it is UNFAIR for PD's to give priority to a FMG over a AMG just b/c of their better #'s. I mean we have the DEBT of 4 years of Medical School in an AAMC accredited institution. Many of the FMG's only pay chunk change for their tuition compared to our expenses. I think it is a free ride for them. Regardless of their stats, they don't go through the rigors of an AAMC institution, the DEBT of an AAMC institution, etc.

BOTTOM LINE: Program Director's only care about STATS and #'s and will DO ANYTHING to LURE the BEST APPLICANTS to their institutions. They could care less on how they do it or on the lack of "ethics" they use when recruiting their candidates. I have heard for example from a colleague of mine how in Radiology the PD and Faculty interviewing applicants will use coercive and harassing techniques during the interview process to assure that they get certain applicant.

These are the kind of things that sicken me about this profession, and will be regretting it for the rest of my life on why I chose this profession...

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[fishmonger69]

sorry to hear about your difficulties. i must ask though, how did you manage to fail the Step II CS exam as an american grad? that test was specifically designed to allow about 99% of american grads to pass, while failing 15% of FMGs secondary, thereby averaging out the standardized testing scores in favor of american grads.

might it be possible you did not obtain many interviews, or match, because american grads don't fail the CS exam?

good luck in your endeavors. if you regret entering medicine, leave for another profession. it's won't get better during residency.

 

[f_w]

and will DO ANYTHING to LURE the BEST APPLICANTS to their institutions

I sure hope so !

What are you proposing ? That the US moves to a two-tier match. US grads in the first round, and only after the lowest qualified US grad has found a position, the independents have to fight over the scraps (this is the system canada has used for many years, and I don't think it has worked to their advantage).

Instead of whining about how unfair the process is, you might want to invest your time in reading and studying for the specialty of your choice. You describe your boards performance as marginal, make sure that you don't fall behind in the knowledge acquisition required from you in residency.

 

[Whiteman]

might it be possible you did not obtain many interviews, or match, because american grads don't fail the CS exam?

Statistically speaking AMG's are favored in passing this test. However, that's a very BOLD statmente your making there without any statistical data to back it up. There are many things that could have gone wrong, and I have heard how people ranked in the top of their classes also fail this test.

 

[Whiteman]

might it be possible you did not obtain many interviews, or match, because american grads don't fail the CS exam?

Statistically speaking AMG's are favored in passing this test. However, that's a very BOLD statment your making there without any statistical data to back it up. There are many things that could have gone wrong, and I have heard how people ranked in the top of their classes also fail this test.

 

[mysophobe]

I find it hard to believe that your school "punished" you by not ranking you simply because you did away rotations. That is a pretty common practice.

 

[wannaberad]

but by your med school, not the NRMP.

 

[leopold stotch]

may i ask what specialty you were applying to?

 

[Whiteman]

Instead of whining about how unfair the process is, you might want to invest your time in reading and studying for the specialty of your choice. You describe your boards performance as marginal, make sure that you don't fall behind in the knowledge acquisition required from you in residency.[/QUOTE]

Your not my Daddy or my Boss... That's my business and not yours...

 

[mysophobe]

Um, he got screwed by his ****ty grades.

 

[Whiteman]

may i ask what specialty you were applying to?

Well it is a specialty with low amount of spots. Most of the programs have only 3-6 spots and the big ones have only 10-14 spots...

 

[k-wire]

just a thought, but do you think that if you were an fmg who failed the cs, and had your overall scores you would have even been able to scramble into a spot? or would an american residency be out of the question?
im just saying the american medical degree does in fact count for something more than fmg degree. i doudt that any fmg who fails any part of the usmle gets into ANY residency without some other SERIOUS credentials on his/her cv. (ie doctors who have practiced for years and years in their home country before trying to make it in the US)

 

[bigfrank]

This is my 2nd time applying through the match. My first time around I wasn't succesful because I didn't interview in a lot of programs and I only had marginally "qualified" stats...........

So shouldn't you have gotten better at playing the game by now? You're a VETERAN of the game. Here's some advice for you:

1. Learn the difference between the usage of "your" and "you're" (it's really annoying to read and makes you look stupid) but, most importantly,
2. Make better grades and become more likeable.

 

[fishmonger69]

you didn't match because of your inability to use the correct form of 'your' vs 'you're'. it's a common mistake made by many (fmgs), but if you did this on your CS notes that might've been enough for them to think you were an FMG and fail you.

 

[bigfrank]

may i ask what specialty you were applying to?

For this tool, I doubt it even matters.....

 

[leopold stotch]

Well it is a specialty with low amount of spots. Most of the programs have only 3-6 spots and the big ones have only 10-14 spots...

hmmm....seems like it may be a pretty competitive field.

ignore all the negativity whiteman.

one problem that i did face:

there was not much honesty.
i got alot of interview to places that i was not qualified for.
how do i know, cause the people that ended up matching there were better numerically.
nevertheless, i wasted a lot of money traveling and interviewing, etc.

after it all came down, yeah i have a spot, but i wish my dean or the residency programs would have just been brutally honest and told me where i stood.

anyway, that's also just life in general. no matter what the profession. in fact, i think more so in other fields.

hang in there. may want to try a less competitive field.
good luck man.

 

[wannaberad]

Lay off him bigfrank. I had years of hard work obviated by lousy interview performance. Some things are just hard for some people, you know? In his case it happens to be grades.

 

[Solideliquid]

Well it is a specialty with low amount of spots. Most of the programs have only 3-6 spots and the big ones have only 10-14 spots...

is it psych?

 

[cdql]

I'd guess derm.

 

[psych2b]

pm&r, if his past posts are any indication...

 

[14022]

OK, I'll bite. I have a lot of problems with this post.

I hear the story year after year about how APPLICANTS are supposed to be favored in the matching.

By saying the applicant is favored, they mean the algorithm is such that an applicant is placed in the program highest on his/her list, not into the program that ranked him/her highest. This simply cannot be argued otherwise.

By this I mean program directors DON'T withhold to high standards of ethics when it comes to the kind of questions asked to the applicant and the coercive tactics that can be used by certain program to make you rank them # 1 or you won't be ranked, among a lot of other things.

If this is the case, you simply do not rank the program. If you have a major concerns regarding the unethical behavior of a program, this should be a red flag that you do not under any circumstabces want to train there. You shouldn't have to worry about not getting ranked because you shouldn't be ranking them.

In addition, I had also e-mailed them to say that I was very interested in their program and would like to interview there, but the e-mail went unreplied. This clearly demonstrates to me how all programs deal in a very hypocritical way.

Are you suggesting that it is unethical for a program to not reply to an email? Do you have any idea how many emails they get from eager applicants expressing interest in their program? It would be so time consuming reply to each and every one. Also, by applying to the program isn't it inherently obvious that you are interested in the program and would like to interview? What other reason would you have to apply? Are they to assume that the other hundreds of applicants are not really interested in the program since they didn't send an extra email saying such?

The "motto" of the NRMP favoring the applicant is ONLY TRUE for applicants with exceptional STATS. For those of us with marginal stats, it is an unfair process since we will always be at the end of ranking lists.

Again, the algorithm is such that it favors applicants. Do you really think the NRMP separates applicants based on people with good stats and bad stats, and then uses a different process to match the bad stat applicants? Also, all other things being equal, why would applicants with marginal stats ever be ranked higher than those with exceptional stats? I agree that numbers do not define an individual, but stats are the only objective means of comparing applicants and will forever be a very important factor in admissions procedures of several fields, not just medicine. I believe however that programs do look at other things besides numbers when ranking applicants, such as research, interpersonal skills, extra-curriculars, etc. They may not be as important as numbers, but they do not go unnoticed. Also, keep in mind, strong performance (especially if consistent) in coursework and board exams in most instances reflect the intelligence, motivation, and work-ethic of an individual, all of which are very important in medicine.

I think it is UNFAIR for PD's to give priority to a FMG over a AMG just b/c of their better #'s. I mean we have the DEBT of 4 years of Medical School in an AAMC accredited institution. Many of the FMG's only pay chunk change for their tuition compared to our expenses. I think it is a free ride for them. Regardless of their stats, they don't go through the rigors of an AAMC institution, the DEBT of an AAMC institution, etc.

Are you stating that the amount spends on one's education should correlate with how deservant they are of a residency position? So should those who go to a private school that pay in tuition anywhere from 2-5 times that spent at state schools be given an advantage over those paying in-state tuition? I have a friend in a Caribbean school and his curriculum is just as rigorous as mine. If their school did not provide adequat education, their students simply would not pass the board exams. That is why board exams exist, to ensure that each student acheives an adequate level of knowledge to allow them to practice medicine. Furthermore, FMG's definately have it rougher than American grads. All things being equal, an applicant from an American school will always get a position above an FMG.

These are the kind of things that sicken me about this profession, and will be regretting it for the rest of my life on why I chose this profession...

If you already know you are going to regret it, get out now. You are going to have a miserable life if you are going to hate your job that much.

Your arguments are weak and based only on anecdotes of a few people's random experiences of coerciveness and wrongdoing. It seems that you are trying to argue why your specific deficiencies should not matter in the admissions process and trying to come up with non-deserved advantages you should have, such as the amount of your student loan debt. From what it sounds, you are choosing a competitive field for which you are underqualified, and rather than accepting your deficiencies (such as failing step 2 cs, having marginal numbers) you are trying to inappropriately discredit the NRMP, claiming they are to blame for your match outcome. I am sorry things did not work out better for you, but there are much better ways to go about it. Good luck getting your conspiracy theory published in any well-respected journal.

 

[f_w]

Your not my Daddy or my Boss... That's my business and not yours...

You put your experience and your gripes on an internet bulletin board. I guess that makes it everyones business.

 

[CameronFrye]

Wow. Another instant SDN classic!

 

[tigershark]

You're right dude they totally screwed you. I can tell by your original post you're a level-headed guy with a firm grip on reality. It's everyone else that has a problem, not you.

 

[remedios]

somehow i was reminded of the poem:

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!

 

[neutropenic]

This guy also had problems with step 2 cs, wonder where s/he is now.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=2807603&postcount=1

Also, why do you want to be in a specialty for which you seem to have a high level of disdain for the PDs of?

Here's a song you should take to heart:

http://mp.aol.com/video.index.adp?pmmsid=1456688

 

[coogmed]

somehow i was reminded of the poem:

Take up the White Man's burden--

.... wow, something good did come from this thread after all!!
much abliged remedios!

 

[yobabydoc]

This post is hilarious. Whiteman I am sorry to say, while I can understand your plight...well not really...but having read it. I think your accusations are not well founded, you play the blame game which points to your level of maturity and in any interview process, your true self probably surfaced and this may have been reason enough for a program to question your projected performance as a competent, compassionate physician. failing CS is so incredibly unbelievable...it is basic, basic to medicine, getting a history, writing a note...just basic communication skills for every doctor. And I am sorry but if I am a PD and someone fails this exam, I am hard pressed to consider them in my program. Your views on FMGs, while I am not one, is so asinine....get a grip on realit whiteman and take responsibility for your shortcomings, it is very unattractive to play the blame game. If the FMG passed all points on the boards and performed well, I absolutely would give him/her an even shake in getting in. I think Scholes summed it up more eloquently than I could have.

 

[Hurricane]

I, HOWEVER, Notice how a LOT OF FMG's with exceptional numbers are interviewed in a lot of these programs, and end up obtaining positions.
I think it is UNFAIR for PD's to give priority to a FMG over a AMG just b/c of their better #'s. I mean we have the DEBT of 4 years of Medical School in an AAMC accredited institution. Many of the FMG's only pay chunk change for their tuition compared to our expenses. I think it is a free ride for them. Regardless of their stats, they don't go through the rigors of an AAMC institution, the DEBT of an AAMC institution, etc.

BOTTOM LINE: Program Director's only care about STATS and #'s and will DO ANYTHING to LURE the BEST APPLICANTS to their institutions.

Well of course they want the best applicants at their programs.

And if all of these FMGs have better stats than you, ever consider that perhaps the "rigors" of their instutition are more than that of your AAMC institution? Your debt = entitlement argument sounds more like jealousy and resentment.

Sorry you didn't match, but come on. You can't blame everyone else - some of the onus is on you.

And LOL at the Kipling poem.

 

[CANES2006]

BOTTOM LINE: Program Director's only care about STATS and #'s and will DO ANYTHING to LURE the BEST APPLICANTS to their institutions.

What's wrong with that? If I was a PD that's what I would do.

 

[8744]

Hi everyone,

This is not a post meant to complain and whine, but to let know some truths which somehow have been IGNORED by the NRMP administration and all the other organizations involved in the matching process. I am seriously considering writing a letter to some Journal or filing in a complaint to the NRMP.

I hear the story year after year about how APPLICANTS are supposed to be favored in the matching. I, however, don't consider this to be the case. As a matter of FACT, IT is my opinion based on my personal experience and from what I have heard from a lot of other applicants that their is DEFINITELY a lot of SHADINESS in this whole process. By this I mean program directors DON'T withhold to high standards of ethics when it comes to the kind of questions asked to the applicant and the coercive tactics that can be used by certain program to make you rank them # 1 or you won't be ranked, among a lot of other things.

This is my 2nd time applying through the match. My first time around I wasn't succesful because I didn't interview in a lot of programs and I only had marginally "qualified" stats. To this you also have to add that I pursued my studies at a Medical School in the 1/3 lower tier of competitiveness. However, I was assuming that I would be ranked by my Medical School's residency program. Unfortunately, to my surprise I didn't match with them either and applicants from a NON-AMC medical school in Mexico were taken into the program. This was their way of punishing me because I carried out electives at other institutions. This is the first example of coerciveness I experienced by the program. Also, during the time I rotated at my program they were constantly harassing me on how would I rank them.

The 4 years of Medical School were a grueling process for me. Not having matched the first time around, I took the year off to pursue RESEARCH. This of course was without any pay. So basically 4 years of Medical Debt from an AAMC medical school, and then a year off without pay. The 2nd time around I applied to all the programs within the field. I got a total of 9 interviews. I spent close to $2500 in ERAS for Prelim and Categorical Spots in my specialty of interest. I also recruited a Matching service which charged me $1800 to offer me their services. To this you have to add the expenses of flying out to all these programs, food, transportation, lodging, etc. In addition, I had to reatake the Clinical Skills twice (The only test I failed) However, after ranking all the programs I encountered the inconvenient once again of not having matched.

I finally was able to secure a position in the scramble process. However, this was from a program to which I had already applied during the Match, but had not initially offered me an interview. In addition, I had also e-mailed them to say that I was very interested in their program and would like to interview there, but the e-mail went unreplied. This clearly demonstrates to me how all programs deal in a very hypocritical way.

The "motto" of the NRMP favoring the applicant is ONLY TRUE for applicants with exceptional STATS. For those of us with marginal stats, it is an unfair process since we will always be at the end of ranking lists.

I, HOWEVER, Notice how a LOT OF FMG's with exceptional numbers are interviewed in a lot of these programs, and end up obtaining positions.
I think it is UNFAIR for PD's to give priority to a FMG over a AMG just b/c of their better #'s. I mean we have the DEBT of 4 years of Medical School in an AAMC accredited institution. Many of the FMG's only pay chunk change for their tuition compared to our expenses. I think it is a free ride for them. Regardless of their stats, they don't go through the rigors of an AAMC institution, the DEBT of an AAMC institution, etc.

BOTTOM LINE: Program Director's only care about STATS and #'s and will DO ANYTHING to LURE the BEST APPLICANTS to their institutions. They could care less on how they do it or on the lack of "ethics" they use when recruiting their candidates. I have heard for example from a colleague of mine how in Radiology the PD and Faculty interviewing applicants will use coercive and harassing techniques during the interview process to assure that they get certain applicant.

These are the kind of things that sicken me about this profession, and will be regretting it for the rest of my life on why I chose this profession...

You need help. I didn't match last year but I would have been ashamed to have blamed it on any thing other than my own deficiencies as an applicant.

If you sit down with this post and seriously contemplate what you wrote you might have one of those head-slapping, "Keerist, I am such a motard" moments which are the basis of all real self-growth.

 

[bigfrank]

Lay off him bigfrank. I had years of hard work obviated by lousy interview performance. Some things are just hard for some people, you know? In his case it happens to be grades.

you must be joking.

 

[bigfrank]

Well it is a specialty with low amount of spots. Most of the programs have only 3-6 spots and the big ones have only 10-14 spots...

based on your whiney rantings in prior posts, it's definitely PM&R. Why didn't you just answer the question? Boy, you really annoy me.

 

[thos]

When I saw the name I kind of expected someone else to be at fault.

BTW, how many of you go to/went to schools with an in-house clinical skills exam? Our is graded more rigorously than the Boards version and seems to work as pretty good prep.

 

[Whiteman]

Yes I am the most incomepetent physician there has ever existed.. Pleased everyone? Step 2 CS is composed of three components: Spoken English proficiency, Clinical Competency and Communication Interpersonal Skills. If you fail one of them, you fail the test. I unfortunately don't possess the best interpersonal skills, and that was the only part I failed.

And Big Frank Chill off. It seems like your one of those personality A persons who wants everyone else to bow down to yourself. I am sorry for not being worthy of meeting your "Standards" of what is considered to be a good physician....

 

[Solideliquid]

based on your whiney rantings in prior posts, it's definitely PM&R. Why didn't you just answer the question? Boy, you really annoy me.

I've still got my money on psych, I hope he tells us.

 

[DrNick2006]

Yes I am the most incomepetent physician there has ever existed.. Pleased everyone? Step 2 CS is composed of three components: Spoken English proficiency, Clinical Competency and Communication Interpersonal Skills. If you fail one of them, you fail the test. I unfortunately don't possess the best interpersonal skills, and that was the only part I failed.
And Big Frank Chill off. It seems like your one of those personality A persons who wants everyone else to bow down to yourself. I am sorry for not being worthy of meeting your "Standards" of what is considered to be a good physician....

Shocking.

I too at one time in my life had interpersonal difficulty. It was becasue I was egocentric and inconsiderate. I grew up. You should too.

 

[cdql]

I unfortunately don't possess the best interpersonal skills, and that was the only part I failed.

Shocking

It's nice to see you are working hard to correct those faults though

I'll agree with you when you say that medicine is more than just numbers. Poor interpersonal skills and a hidden racist mentality are two things that PD's typically frown upon however. Perhaps correcting those might net you some sympathy? Maybe even a residency spot?

 

[8744]

Yes I am the most incomepetent physician there has ever existed.. Pleased everyone? Step 2 CS is composed of three components: Spoken English proficiency, Clinical Competency and Communication Interpersonal Skills. If you fail one of them, you fail the test. I unfortunately don't possess the best interpersonal skills, and that was the only part I failed.

And Big Frank Chill off. It seems like your one of those personality A persons who wants everyone else to bow down to yourself. I am sorry for not being worthy of meeting your "Standards" of what is considered to be a good physician....

No. You failed interpersonal skills? Get out! No way.

 

[Wrigleyville]

$2500 for ERAS?! How many programs did you apply to? Only getting 9 interviews should have been a warning sign.


Interpersonal skills are a pretty important part of any physician's job description. I don't see why you are mad that programs are "punishing" you for not having them.

 

[SiouxMD]

Well it is a specialty with low amount of spots. Most of the programs have only 3-6 spots and the big ones have only 10-14 spots...

This answer tells me alot about Whiteman. It's a simple question with a simple answer, yet he doesn't answer and instead gives generalities. I'd guess that attitude also comes across in interviews.

 

[lateness]

$2500 for ERAS?! How many programs did you apply to? Only getting 9 interviews should have been a warning sign.


Interpersonal skills are a pretty important part of any physician's job description. I don't see why you are mad that programs are "punishing" you for not having them.

interpersonal skills are important, but they didnt have the exam years ago, and a lot of older doctors practicing that i have seen, have some horrible interp skills.. not all, but i have seen my share, and i would bet they would have failed the exam had they had one back there

 

[remedios]

$2500 for ERAS?! How many programs did you apply to? Only getting 9 interviews should have been a warning sign.


Interpersonal skills are a pretty important part of any physician's job description. I don't see why you are mad that programs are "punishing" you for not having them.

Northwestern shout out!!

Glad you guys liked the poem...

In reply to OP though, I'm sorry things didn't work out for you... This thread has turned kind of turned into personal attacks, but I think you do need to recognize that perhaps a big part of the reason is your own application, since you did acknowledge that you had shortcomings in both stats and personal skills (things that PD look for for quite valid reasons...)

 

[f_w]

Step 2 CS is composed of three components: Spoken English proficiency, Clinical Competency and Communication Interpersonal Skills. If you fail one of them, you fail the test. I unfortunately don't possess the best interpersonal skills, and that was the only part I failed.

So please, don't blame your difficulties on your medical school 'in the 1/3 lower tier of competitiveness'. You can cram knowledge into someone or even teach them a language, but I don't see how a medschool can impart interpersonal skills on their students.

I think there is more than one reason for your difficulty finding a residency. One alone (like a flunked step2CS) or poor step1+2ck scores won't do.

- I have met practicing physicians and residents with abysmal USMLEs and more than one attempt at each step (once you have a 7 on the 2 digit, you are in trouble)
- I have met physicians with the personality skills of a dead squid.
- I know folks who had to do the then CSA two or three times.

All of these people got into residencies, so one factor alone won't do.

Could it be that you are aiming a bit high in your choice of specialty ? Maybe your performance DOES limit you to 'lower tier IM' or 'lower tier FP'. If you have a medschool diploma and a pulse, there are plenty of programs in both these fields who will take you.

 

[psych2b]

lot of older doctors practicing that i have seen, have some horrible interp skills.. not all, but i have seen my share, and i would bet they would have failed the exam had they had one back there

Not to take your quote out of context (I chopped off the beginning), but I have to say I'm rather surprised anyone fails the CS exam b/c I totally ran out of time on the first 3 cases... Stuck writing the HPI when "2 minutes" were called, no PE/DDx/Tests filled out yet. YOWCH. I sped it up eventually, but was a little scared that I was being a bit too thorough (had to keep erasing b/c there was a limited amount of space you could type, and I wasn't done with the parts --- eeep! Anyway, suffice it to say, I'm a bit wordy - get OUT! no, tis true, I tell you, just call me chatterbox.). Anyway, I passed just fine - and yes, our school had a much more thorough clinical skills/knowledge exam after 3rd year, but we didn't have to write complete H&P's, just answer some questions or read EKG's or randomness, like just parts of the H&P - just the ddx and tests, or something.

Oh goodness, where is this post heading? I forget, but if you check the original poster's past posts, he seemed to be trying for PM&R (for those of you who asked). I'll be quiet now.

 

[Dr.Nick Riveria]

Wow, I am amazed at this thread. Granted the match process is not perfect but somehow hundreds of medical students were able to match even those from low tier schools or like myself with mediocre Step 1&2 board scores (I did pass CS). Maybe clinical medicine isn't for you. There is alot you can do with a M.D. Have you considered going into pharmaceuticals or being a consultant? I hear the pay isn't bad.

 

[bigfrank]

Come on guys, Chill off.

 

[frenetic]

For this tool, I doubt it even matters.....

I am sure glad you are going into radiology. Suits you well. Most patients and decent humans don't enjoy being around a**holes. Did you consider the option of not sharing your idiotic and utterly unhelpful opinions and keeping them to yourself instead?

 

[bigfrank]

I am sure glad you are going into radiology. Suits you well. Most patients and decent humans don't enjoy being around a**holes. Did you consider the option of not sharing your idiotic and utterly unhelpful opinions and keeping them to yourself instead?

I sure am glad you took the time to post that you took the time to look up my specialty.

Did your poll that you posted on an anonymous forum help you choose your rank list for residency? weird

You're creepy.

 

[lumanase]

Not exactly sure what the original complaint is about here. Went to "a Medical School in the 1/3 lower tier of competitiveness," failed the CS exam, got marginal grades and then failed to Match. You say that's SHADINESS but i say that's exactly how the Match should work out.

hate to say tough luck but i've seen so many of my friends with incredible grades and scores not to match in a competitive speciality it's hard to sympathize. And i've yet to hear them grip about PD's lack of 'ethics'