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[babyvet]

Hi all,

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[WildZoo]

Hi @Trilt @SportPonies

I feel unqualified to answer given that my exotics caseload is minimal lol

 

[that redhead]

Hi all,

I'm a third year veterinary student. I have a strong interest in doing private practice exotics. I am starting to have a lot of anxiety if this is even feasible for me. I have done an exotics external and plan on doing 3 during 4th year. I thought I knew some things about exotic medicine, and then I went to a clinic and realized I really truly know nothing and am lacking clinical techniques on even the basic level (beak/feather trims, basic reptile care, etc.). Our school has two short exotics courses available which I will take.

Here's my thing. I can barely keep a sliver of common sense with keeping straight dog, cat, LA/FA, and equine medicine. Normally, I would just throw the equine and LA information out of my brain forever since I will never use it, but the NAVLE is sitting in the corner laughing at me. I am sure there are much smarter people out there who could do it all, but I feel like I can't. I feel more disorganized with my clinical thought process everyday as more random facts about things like the scrotal circumferences of various cervids are pounded into me. Again I have a fear of messing up the NAVLE by overloading my brain with exotics and forgetting the traditional species.

Those who went into exotics right after veterinary school, what did you do? It seems hard to land a job at an exotics exclusive practice. I have fear if I don't go to an exotics exclusive practice I will never get comfortable treating anything other than pocket pets/mammals. I would need heavy mentorship for avian/reptile. If the answer is studying on the side is an absolute prerequisite, how in the world did you keep it all straight? I also unfortunately have some limitations with family issues. I have to go back into a certain area and will not be able to take time away to specialize. If I never become an exotics vet that is okay because my family is worth it, but I was 100x happier at an exotics clinic than I ever was with dog/cat. Please be nice to me if I seem like an unrealistic buffoon. I know I have a lot of limitations and have to be strategic and just looking for some advice and feedback!

Hello, I did I went into SAGP straight out of school and built myself up to quite a solid exotics caseload. Now that I’m only in GP a weekend a month as my side gig, I pretty much just see exotics on my days there because no one else wants to and people need help for their critters.

What I will say is this: unless you do find a magical place that is exotics-exclusive, accepting new grads AND has time to mentor…you’re going to build your exotics practice pretty much by yourself. This means a few things:

1. Find a practice that is supportive of you seeing exotics. Ideally someone else on staff has experience, either a tech that can help handle or another vet. If they don’t see them at all, it will be a tough adjustment because exotics require more time per visit, bring in less revenue per visit, require some specialized equipment, etc. So if they’re expecting you to see exotics and have it be like a dog appointment, they’re going to be peeved.

2. Adequate CE allowance - VIN is a godsend for exotics, but so are conferences and the pink book text, for example. You will need these! And yeah, you’re going to have to spend time reading about geckos and budgies and hamsters. You can’t know it all every time which brings me to…

3. Realize that your intelligence isn’t what makes you a good doctor. A lot of exotics medicine is extrapolating (although it’s getting better gradually), reading on your own time, trying things that you’ve never done before, etc. You need to be able to get over the idea of “not smart enough” - you don’t need to be smart, you need to be resourceful, dedicated and resilient. Easy right? When in first started seeing exotics, it was hard because even with some previous experience it’s a very different world. But I got comfortable quickly and so many people are SO thankful that someone will see their little African dwarf frog that they found on their grapes from the grocery store that they adore. It can be very challenging but also very rewarding. My best vet stories are my exotics stories

 

[cbucks]

I can't speak about working in exotics post-grad, but I initially started vet school thinking I would go into exotics. I changed my speciality interest a while ago but thinking back, I think it would be hard to feel "ready" to go into an exotics practice after graduating using just what we learned in school since it's such a small proportion of our education (we had ~2 courses but the material was very *very* bare bones and mostly focused on what the NAVLE would ask). I'll echo a lot of the above, but also say that any hands-on experiences you can get in rotations will probably be the most beneficial for you! I spent an elective week with our exotics service and even though I'm not pursuing it anymore, I would say I learned a TON about exotics medicine and husbandry, and now at the very least I can restrain/stabilize/perform basic diagnostics and procedures on most exotics that come into the ER. Plus, you have a ton of time between taking the NAVLE and graduating, so if you're worried about overwhelming your brain you at least have those months after to really dive into reviewing exotics topics! (although I'll say I'm taking the NAVLE tomorrow and had to google cervid scrotal circumference after reading your post because...what the heck)

 

[SnowJ]

2022 grad here; I started at a clinic that sees both cats/dogs and exotics- I got extremely lucky with a practice where all of the doctors see exotics and everyone works with them, so I have a lot of people to depend on to help me out. I think as a new grad having some level of support in-clinic with you is really important; ideally at least one other doctor who sees them to help bounce ideas and experience off of. I recommend networking and having some people you can reach out to for help if you're going to be building up your exotics base solo.
I still have to look up the husbandry of every reptile every time I see one. Even though I get a good number of them, it's way too much information to expect to memorize. Lafeber is great for husbandry information, and a few clinics make information sheets available that are extremely helpful.
VIN and Carpenter's formulary are my best friends. When im solo for a day or have an unusual case, I can usually find some helpful discussions on VIN to help guide me. Carpenter's, in addition to being a formulary, has bloodwork information for a ton of exotics species so I use it daily.

 

[SkiOtter]

2022 grad here; I started at a clinic that sees both cats/dogs and exotics- I got extremely lucky with a practice where all of the doctors see exotics and everyone works with them, so I have a lot of people to depend on to help me out. I think as a new grad having some level of support in-clinic with you is really important; ideally at least one other doctor who sees them to help bounce ideas and experience off of. I recommend networking and having some people you can reach out to for help if you're going to be building up your exotics base solo.
I still have to look up the husbandry of every reptile every time I see one. Even though I get a good number of them, it's way too much information to expect to memorize. Lafeber is great for husbandry information, and a few clinics make information sheets available that are extremely helpful.
VIN and Carpenter's formulary are my best friends. When im solo for a day or have an unusual case, I can usually find some helpful discussions on VIN to help guide me. Carpenter's, in addition to being a formulary, has bloodwork information for a ton of exotics species so I use it daily.

I don’t see exotics but I have a similar clinic (though not everyone does see them). There are some techs/assistants familiar with exotics and one vet who sees the majority of them. One of the vets who has been out ~10-12 years is starting to see them too and so is our 2021 grad. They both can always ask the vet who sees them often questions and they have resource books as well. We have an exotic vet nearby that works one day a week at a local ER/specialty center who also is willing to do consults and answer questions.

 

[JaynaAli]

I can’t speak to the exotics component, but I want to add that a huge part of anyone’s first six months to an year (and honestly I’d say first 5 years but let’s stay small for the sake of this discussion) out of vet school is self-directed learning and trial by fire. The real world is very different from the academia bubble of vet school. Vet school is there to lay a foundation, teach you how to look up and recognize legitimate resources, and help you pass NAVLE. Vet school is important, but you learn the most (imo) by doing in the real world. In real life, you often have much less time per patient, fewer fancy “toys”, fewer/different meds at your disposal, less direct access to specialists, and clientele with much different budgets and expectations than academia. It’s going to be an adjustment no matter where you end up so don’t be afraid…you’ll learn on the fly and you’ll grow as a doctor and things will be okay. I’ve literally told clients (when I was in practice) and vets (now as a specialist) that I didn’t know and needed to look that up and literally no one has acted negatively about that admission. They thanked me for my attention and care. There are very few instances where you can’t take two minutes to look something up. And if you look it up enough you’ll start remembering it.

 

[Nigripes]

Hello, I did I went into SAGP straight out of school and built myself up to quite a solid exotics caseload. Now that I’m only in GP a weekend a month as my side gig, I pretty much just see exotics on my days there because no one else wants to and people need help for their critters.

What I will say is this: unless you do find a magical place that is exotics-exclusive, accepting new grads AND has time to mentor…you’re going to build your exotics practice pretty much by yourself. This means a few things:

1. Find a practice that is supportive of you seeing exotics. Ideally someone else on staff has experience, either a tech that can help handle or another vet. If they don’t see them at all, it will be a tough adjustment because exotics require more time per visit, bring in less revenue per visit, require some specialized equipment, etc. So if they’re expecting you to see exotics and have it be like a dog appointment, they’re going to be peeved.

2. Adequate CE allowance - VIN is a godsend for exotics, but so are conferences and the pink book text, for example. You will need these! And yeah, you’re going to have to spend time reading about geckos and budgies and hamsters. You can’t know it all every time which brings me to…

3. Realize that your intelligence isn’t what makes you a good doctor. A lot of exotics medicine is extrapolating (although it’s getting better gradually), reading on your own time, trying things that you’ve never done before, etc. You need to be able to get over the idea of “not smart enough” - you don’t need to be smart, you need to be resourceful, dedicated and resilient. Easy right? When in first started seeing exotics, it was hard because even with some previous experience it’s a very different world. But I got comfortable quickly and so many people are SO thankful that someone will see their little African dwarf frog that they found on their grapes from the grocery store that they adore. It can be very challenging but also very rewarding. My best vet stories are my exotics stories

Hi,
What is the "pink book text" for exotic medicine reference? I am only familiar with the BSAVA manual and formulary for exotics. Thank you in advance for replying.

 

[SnowJ]

Hi,
What is the "pink book text" for exotic medicine reference? I am only familiar with the BSAVA manual and formulary for exotics. Thank you in advance for replying.

The "pink book" is 'Ferrets, Rabbits, and Rodents- Clinical Medicine and Surgery'. It's also known as Quesenberry after the primary author. Its a great textbook for small mammal practice

 

[that redhead]

Hi,
What is the "pink book text" for exotic medicine reference? I am only familiar with the BSAVA manual and formulary for exotics. Thank you in advance for replying.

See post above I have tweaked some drug dosages based on VIN and experience but overall an excellent and accessible text.

For reptile and other exotics husbandry, Scott Stahl at SEAVS (which isn’t too far from me) has some good handouts on his website in addition to the others mentioned.

 

[VIN-Foundation]

If you're smart enough to get through veterinary school, you're smart enough to be a good exotics veterinarians. It's not astrophysics.

90% of medicine is the same, regardless of the species you're working on. Pathophysiology, comparative anatomy, surgical skills, pharmacology, clinical reasoning and problem-solving skills, organization; skills and time management, relating well to clients and coworkers, ability to find and assess scientific literature and other resources ... that's what you need to be a good clinician, regardless of whether you're treating a dog, a horse or a cockatoo.

You will have the basic foundation for all of that. Beyond that, it's a matter of getting a few years of experience under your belt, ideally well-mentored experience. It will feel like you learn more your first 6 months after school than all of veterinary school. (You're really not, you're just learning to apply what you've learned.) But that's not any harder for exotics than small animal.

As for getting a well-paying job doing only exotics? Yeah, that IS a lot harder.

 

[Momokeen]

While I am a lab animal resident, I have become quite versed in reptile husbandry due to having a reptile myself and doing some rescues and just pursuing the knowledge on my own. This led to me being asked to give the reptile lecture here at the vet school I'm at. Students here get ONE reptile lecture, so I felt the need to pack it with proper husbandry info because I will be damned if new grads who plan to see herps recommend reptile carpet, etc. So many vet schools also teach very outdated reptile husbandry info. I'm happy to send this lecture your way if you are interested. Like 90% of reptile diseases are husbandry related so the lecture will be a good start at least on the reptile side of things.

The pink book is great tool for small mammal reference. And pick up a copy of the Carpenter's Formulary too when you graduate. As everyone said VIN is great, as well as the Lafeber vet site (it's free).

 

[babyvet]

While I am a lab animal resident, I have become quite versed in reptile husbandry due to having a reptile myself and doing some rescues and just pursuing the knowledge on my own. This led to me being asked to give the reptile lecture here at the vet school I'm at. Students here get ONE reptile lecture, so I felt the need to pack it with proper husbandry info because I will be damned if new grads who plan to see herps recommend reptile carpet, etc. So many vet schools also teach very outdated reptile husbandry info. I'm happy to send this lecture your way if you are interested. Like 90% of reptile diseases are husbandry related so the lecture will be a good start at least on the reptile side of things.

The pink book is great tool for small mammal reference. And pick up a copy of the Carpenter's Formulary too when you graduate. As everyone said VIN is great, as well as the Lafeber vet site (it's free).

I'd love the lecture!

 

[TheDogFather]

Small animal, large animal, wildlife, zoo, exotics--brains have little to do with it. No matter how well you did in the following subjects, how much calculus, physics, organic chemistry, etc. did you really use in your veterinary course work? Real world practice is a lot like that.