Just Matched into Diagnostic Radiology, thinking of switching to Surgery

[FireRad]

So I recently matched into Diagnostic Radiology. I was very fortunate to match at my top choice at a highly regarded academic center in California (e.g. UCSD/UCLA/USC level).

For my prelim year, I'll be doing Surgery. Before I applied, I was torn between applying to a surgical field (e.g. Urology or General Surgery) versus Radiology. But I ultimately chose Radiology because the surgeons at my medical school are all divorced and, as a female, I thought becoming a surgeon would prevent me from being a mother.

However, I'm on a surgery rotation now and I love it. I feel I may have made a big mistake choosing Radiology over surgery.

I'm thinking of switching into Surgery after my prelim Surgery year. What is the likelihood that I could secure a position?

I've heard of people using resources such as resident swap, and I think there must be at least someone out there who might be interested in switching.

If I reapply for the match, I would apply for Urology or General surgery, but I'm not sure how competitive of a candidate I would be.

Stats: Top 25 med school
Step 1 and Step 2: 240s
Clinical Grades: 5 Honors (Internal Medicine, Neurology, Family Medicine, Pediatrics, OB/GYN), 2 Near Honors (Surgery, Psychiatry)

Would it be possible or feasible to switch?

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[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

Short answer: yes it would be possible.

Best case scenario, you kill it during your prelim year and there's an open spot in the surgery residency at the same institution.

I'd meet with the surgery program director early on and explain your situation. I'd also spend time nailing down "why switch" answer. While I would agree with you that it's possible to have balance, I'd be careful about how you frame that into an answer. You may run across surgeons in the interview process for whom that's not a "good" thing.

 

[new2018]

Would it be considered match violation if you don't report to your PYG-2 DR position?

 

[doc05]

1. Yes, it's possible to switch.
2. But don't. Rads is a great field. There's no good reason to think Surgery is a "better" choice just because you're having fun as a student.

 

[FireRad]

Would it be considered match violation if you don't report to your PYG-2 DR position?

I looked into this and you can request a waiver for the PGY2 year. It is automatically granted if you are switching fields.

 

[FireRad]

Short answer: yes it would be possible.

Best case scenario, you kill it during your prelim year and there's an open spot in the surgery residency at the same institution.

I'd meet with the surgery program director early on and explain your situation. I'd also spend time nailing down "why switch" answer. While I would agree with you that it's possible to have balance, I'd be careful about how you frame that into an answer. You may run across surgeons in the interview process for whom that's not a "good" thing.

How early is too early? I was thinking of maybe waiting for 2 months and seeing how much I enjoy the actual practice before I approach anyone about this. The waiver to switch specialities has to be requested by December 15. But to reapply for the match, I would have to get an application together by September. This seems like a tight deadline to make major life choices.

But I've heard of people using resident swap and contacting programs directly about open positions. Perhaps this is a better option, especially since I won't have much time to go on interviews as a PGY1.

 

[LucidSplash]

Certainly doable.

Question though, have your maternal goals changed since when you applied?

Even if they haven’t, the idea that being a surgeon precludes motherhood is a fallacy. Several of my female coresidents had children while in residency and I also had female Surgery mentors who were mothers. It takes hard work and a supportive partner and program, yes, but the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[ClinPathDO]

So I recently matched into Diagnostic Radiology. I was very fortunate to match at my top choice at a highly regarded academic center in California (e.g. UCSD/UCLA/USC level).

For my prelim year, I'll be doing Surgery. Before I applied, I was torn between applying to a surgical field (e.g. Urology or General Surgery) versus Radiology. But I ultimately chose Radiology because the surgeons at my medical school are all divorced and, as a female, I thought becoming a surgeon would prevent me from being a mother.

However, I'm on a surgery rotation now and I love it. I feel I may have made a big mistake choosing Radiology over surgery.

I'm thinking of switching into Surgery after my prelim Surgery year. What is the likelihood that I could secure a position?

I've heard of people using resources such as resident swap, and I think there must be at least someone out there who might be interested in switching.

If I reapply for the match, I would apply for Urology or General surgery, but I'm not sure how competitive of a candidate I would be.

Stats: Top 25 med school
Step 1 and Step 2: 240s
Clinical Grades: 5 Honors (Internal Medicine, Neurology, Family Medicine, Pediatrics, OB/GYN), 2 Near Honors (Surgery, Psychiatry)

Would it be possible or feasible to switch?

No interest in IR?

 

[LucidSplash]

Sure, she will be biologically able to, but I don't think it's fair to just tell her that "it'll be OK you go girl!" without pointing out that even if her partner/program are willing to adequate themselves to her special needs (which they just might not), she'd still need to lower her expectations on how involved she will be on her offspring's life as a surgeon compared to a radiologist.

My favorite aunt is an academic radiologist and still works 60 hours a week in her 70s. My cousins were largely raised by their housekeeper. One of her sons married an academic radiologist; they have a full-time nanny for their 2 children and my cousin travels for work every week. My female attendings in residency (one gen surg who started out in the military and one peds Surg) built practices that allowed them to be very actively involved raising their children. All working mothers have to make some sacrifices but this idea that female surgeons can’t be involved in the lives of their children and that things are automatically easier in other specialties is bunk. You build the life you want, especially after residency.

 

[doc05]

My favorite aunt is an academic radiologist and still works 60 hours a week in her 70s. My cousins were largely raised by their housekeeper. One of her sons married an academic radiologist; they have a full-time nanny for their 2 children and my cousin travels for work every week. My female attendings in residency (one gen surg who started out in the military and one peds Surg) built practices that allowed them to be very actively involved raising their children. All working mothers have to make some sacrifices but this idea that female surgeons can’t be involved in the lives of their children and that things are automatically easier in other specialties is bunk. You build the life you want, especially after residency.

Sure, all of that is possible. But radiology is a good choice, and overall, more likely to allow a life outside of work.

 

[LucidSplash]

Sure, all of that is possible. But radiology is a good choice, and overall, more likely to allow a life outside of work.

Surgery is a good choice too and the idea that surgeons don’t have lives outside of work is antiquated. I come from a family of radiologists. To the point that my last name is known in the field. But I chose Surgery because I had an understanding of myself and my goals (and the fact that I fall asleep in dark rooms). Radiology is a good field. But so is Surgery.

There are a number of surgeons on this board who clearly have lives outside of work (have you ever seen @Winged Scapula ’s vacation pictures?).

In the end, the OP needs to choose the field she would be happiest in. That may be radiology and that may be a surgical field. She should investigate her options and make the decision herself. But I’m not going to sit here and let people propagate this stereotyped idea that being a female surgeon is a death sentence to anything but career goals. My personal first-hand experience as a woman in surgery begs to differ, as does my observation of my colleagues’ and mentors’ lives.

I say again, life is what you make of it, especially after training. The most important thing is to understand your own strengths/weaknesses, your goals, and what you really want for yourself. Finding a mentor who can give the OP guidance about what life REALLY looks like for a woman in surgery (and what motherhood can look like) would be beneficial to her decision-making process.

 

[FireRad]

I'm surprised the motherhood comment generated so much debate.

I know it will be hard in surgery. But I decided that I only get one life to live, and I want to spend it in a career I love. Not one I settled on as a compromise.

Also, how do people go about finding positions outside the match? Do you know of anyone who has successfully done so?
I would prefer this because interviewing at programs again and the whole ERAS/NRMP process would be terrible to go through a second time.

 

[LucidSplash]

I'm surprised the motherhood comment generated so much debate.

I know it will be hard in surgery. But I decided that I only get one life to live, and I want to spend it in a career I love. Not one I settled on as a compromise.

Also, how do people go about finding positions outside the match? Do you know of anyone who has successfully done so?
I would prefer this because interviewing at programs again and the whole ERAS/NRMP process would be terrible to go through a second time.

Open Training Positions | Association of Program Directors in Surgery

 

[STATGJ]

Rangel, Erika L., et al. "Pregnancy and motherhood during surgical training." JAMA surgery (2018).

Definitely possible, as this study shows. Good luck.

 

[FireRad]

Thanks for all your help! I appreciate the responses.

In lieu of going through the match again, I think I will wait and see how much I enjoy my intern year. Then in November, I will make the decision to switch or not. Which is far in advance of the December 15 deadline.

At that point, I'll start looking for open PGY2 positions. Given the relatively high attrition rate in General Surgery, I doubt I will have a difficult time pursuing a resident swap or looking for an open PGY2 position.

I think not going through the match is the best route, otherwise I would have to redo my PGY1 year. And I doubt I would have a difficult time finding a General Surgery spot. Surely someone will want Radiology in SoCal that I can swap with.

 

[new2018]

Can i show me where you find out this? thanks!

I looked into this and you can request a waiver for the PGY2 year. It is automatically granted if you are switching fields.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Radiology resident with my obviously biased $0.02, but I'll put it out there: I see more surgical residents swap into radiology than vice-versa.

I would recommend against going into a surgical specialty if you have any doubts about it. At least that's what a trauma surgeon told me when I was torn between a surgical specialty and radiology.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I would have swapped into surgery if I am not too deep in the IR game. You get to own your patient.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

I would have swapped into surgery if I am not too deep in the IR game. You get to own your patient.

That's not always as great as you might think

 

[FireRad]

I wanted to close the loop on this. When I initially posted, people were very pessimistic regarding my chances of matching into Urology. This site seems to only care about board scores and grades.

Well, in the real world, it turns out residency programs care ALOT about your performance as a resident. I crushed it as a surgery intern and got amazing letters of recommendation from my current program.

I applied to the Urology match this year and I got offered an out of match direct position with a top 20 program in NYC. I signed my contract back in early October.

To anyone reading this and thinking they might not be in the right field after match day, don't give up! Go after your dreams!

#ladyboss

 

[deleted547339]

I wanted to close the loop on this. When I initially posted, people were very pessimistic regarding my chances of matching into Urology. This site seems to only care about board scores and grades.

Well, in the real world, it turns out residency programs care ALOT about your performance as a resident. I crushed it as a surgery intern and got amazing letters of recommendation from my current program.

I applied to the Urology match this year and I got offered an out of match direct position with a top 20 program in NYC. I signed my contract back in early October.

To anyone reading this and thinking they might not be in the right field after match day, don't give up! Go after your dreams!

#ladyboss

Congrats. Hope it goes well for you.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

Congrats, obviously very happy it all worked out for you. Though I'm confused where in this thread (or elsewhere) people have indicated the only thing that matters in scores and grades. Good luck with the transition.

 

[LucidSplash]

Congrats, obviously very happy it all worked out for you. Though I'm confused where in this thread (or elsewhere) people have indicated the only thing that matters in scores and grades. Good luck with the transition.

I was thinking the same thing. Everyone in this thread was very supportive and literally zero people mentioned scores and grades. Maybe she was thinking of another thread. In her similar thread in the Uro subforum, cpants said it would be an uphill battle but not impossible.

Ah well. Glad it worked out for her.

 

[Psai]

Great job! Thanks for the update.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I wanted to close the loop on this. When I initially posted, people were very pessimistic regarding my chances of matching into Urology. This site seems to only care about board scores and grades.

Well, in the real world, it turns out residency programs care ALOT about your performance as a resident. I crushed it as a surgery intern and got amazing letters of recommendation from my current program.

I applied to the Urology match this year and I got offered an out of match direct position with a top 20 program in NYC. I signed my contract back in early October.

To anyone reading this and thinking they might not be in the right field after match day, don't give up! Go after your dreams!

#ladyboss

You must be reading the pre-med and med student forums. I think the residency forums are much more real world and understand that connections and real world performance are much more important.

Congratulations and thanks for closing the loop. Nice when someone does that.

 

[nimbus]

Congratulations! The most badass urologist I know is a woman and a mother and an all around fantastic human being.

 

[LucidSplash]

Hi were you able to complete a swap. I am interested in radio. Please send me your contact into at BLEEEEP and I would like to chat.

If you read the entire thread, you’ll be able to see that she entered the urology Match and is now a uro resident. Additionally the post itself is over 2 years old.

Would recommend editing your post to take out your email. For future reference, direct private message is a better way to contact people.