Job interviews

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dapmp91

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Do you get job interviews during residencies?
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Stafocker said:
yes

anything more specific you want to ask? ;)
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wait, so the job offers you get, do mostly everyone gets those job offers, are they usually from multispecialty groups and pod groups, do you get job offers from hopitals, and also is the pay in at least 100k a year :)
 
dapmp91 said:
wait, so the job offers you get, do mostly everyone gets those job offers, are they usually from multispecialty groups and pod groups, do you get job offers from hopitals, and also is the pay in at least 100k a year :)
Click to expand...

They are from pod groups, multispecialty groups, ortho groups, and hospitals. Most seem to make mid 100's coming out.
 
jonwill said:
[The job offers and interviews] are from pod groups, multispecialty groups, ortho groups, and hospitals. Most seem to make mid 100's coming out.
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While I certainly don't disagree here^, readers, esp beginning pre-pods like damp91, need to keep in mind that nothing comes easy.

There are also many senior residents elsewhere who are working hard to find even one single job offer with a group, hospital, or 6-figure salary. Some of that has to do with lack of flexibility on job location or trying to get a job in an area oversaturated with DPMs, but it also has a great deal to do with level of residency training.

dapmp91 said:
...mostly everyone gets those job offers...
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This way of thinking^ is not at all correct IMO. You get out what you put in. One must bear in mind that both jonwill and stafocker are going to be graduating from consensus top 10 or 20 podiatry residency training programs, and they will have skills, knowledge, and surgical numbers/diversity that your average DPM coming out of training does not.

The bottom line is that you don't get six figure job offers from ortho groups just by doing any old residency. Also, I doubt most 3rd year residents who are securing top positions are simply kicking their feet up on a desk and just waiting for phone calls and offers to roll in. It's never bad to send out your CV to successful groups in desired areas and take a proactive approach to the job search.

Good further reading...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=396294
 
dapmp91 said:
wait, so the job offers you get, do mostly everyone gets those job offers, are they usually from multispecialty groups and pod groups, do you get job offers from hopitals, and also is the pay in at least 100k a year :)
Click to expand...

Yes and no. It really depends where you go and how you are trained. Times have changed a lot when most ppl started their own practice right out of residency, now most ppl find an associate position, working toward partner or buy-out, plus you hear more and more about multispecialty groups taking on Pods whether they are medical/ortho etc. Some hospitals are now offering pod jobs right out of residency, I believe there was some news in PM news about a NY hospital offering a newly graduating resident a job to work directly for the hospital as an attending... nice.

pay varies, APMA recently did a survey and should be releasing it about pod pay soon. They posted it on another forum, but i've copied it for you:

Here are some not yet released statistics for income of podiatric physicians from the 2007 APMA Podiatric Practice Survey:

1. A dramatic increase in the gross incomes of practice owners was found for 2006. The median gross income in 2006 was $400,000, compared to an estimated $275,000 in 2004.
2. A much higher percentage of members reported gross incomes over $500,000 in 2006 (37%) than in 2004 (20%) and 2001 (14%).
3. Net income in 2006 increased substantially from 2004. The median net income in 2006 was $150,000, compared to an estimated $137,500 in 2004.
4. Net income in 2006 was higher for members with high volumes of total patient visits and for members with board certification from the American Board of Podiatric Surgery (ABPS).
__________________
Source: The American Podiatric Medical Association - posted by APMA on Student Doctor Network

Take it for a grain of salt...

I'm only a first year resident, so I'm not as good of a resource as say a 3rd year or an Attending in private practice. But i'm not worried about getting "paid" :p I'm more worried about this housing market... sheesh....
 
Stafocker said:
Yes and no. It really depends where you go and how you are trained. Times have changed a lot when most ppl started their own practice right out of residency, now most ppl find an associate position, working toward partner or buy-out, plus you hear more and more about multispecialty groups taking on Pods whether they are medical/ortho etc. Some hospitals are now offering pod jobs right out of residency, I believe there was some news in PM news about a NY hospital offering a newly graduating resident a job to work directly for the hospital as an attending... nice.

pay varies, APMA recently did a survey and should be releasing it about pod pay soon. They posted it on another forum, but i've copied it for you:

Here are some not yet released statistics for income of podiatric physicians from the 2007 APMA Podiatric Practice Survey:

1. A dramatic increase in the gross incomes of practice owners was found for 2006. The median gross income in 2006 was $400,000, compared to an estimated $275,000 in 2004.
2. A much higher percentage of members reported gross incomes over $500,000 in 2006 (37%) than in 2004 (20%) and 2001 (14%).
3. Net income in 2006 increased substantially from 2004. The median net income in 2006 was $150,000, compared to an estimated $137,500 in 2004.
4. Net income in 2006 was higher for members with high volumes of total patient visits and for members with board certification from the American Board of Podiatric Surgery (ABPS).
__________________
Source: The American Podiatric Medical Association - posted by APMA on Student Doctor Network

Take it for a grain of salt...

I'm only a first year resident, so I'm not as good of a resource as say a 3rd year or an Attending in private practice. But i'm not worried about getting "paid" :p I'm more worried about this housing market... sheesh....
Click to expand...

As a side note, housing prices are coming down to the price where they should have been years ago. It should not cost anyone $400,000 - $500,000 for a 1 bedroom condo just because it's in Logan Circle, for example. Also, for the past few years, up until about 2005, people were buying homes on a variable rate mortgage. Good idea at the time but when the market goes down the mortgage payment goes up.

These brilliant consumers who opted for a variable rate mortgage are now foreclosing like crazy because they cannot afford their mortgage at the higher rate. Now that this has happened, it is much harder for people to secure bank loans. Lenders are extremely careful now because so many people have defaulted on their home loans in the last three years.

So is it a buyer's market? Yes and no. If you can secure a bank loan, you can shop around for the lowest price house/condo and even bargain under fair market value. The problem is actually getting a home loan.

When I was at PITT a 3 bedroom home in the 'burbs would sell for about $100,000. I bet it's even lower with this housing slump. Good luck finding a home.
 
jays2cool4u said:
As a side note, housing prices are coming down to the price where they should have been years ago. It should not cost anyone $400,000 - $500,000 for a 1 bedroom condo just because it's in Logan Circle, for example. Also, for the past few years, up until about 2005, people were buying homea on a variable rate mortgage. Good idea at the time but when the market goes down the mortgage payment goes up.

These brilliant consumers who opted for a variable rate mortgage are now foreclosing like crazy because they cannot afford their mortgage at the higher rate. Now that this has happened, it is much harder for people to secure bank loans. Lenders are extremely careful now because so many people have defaulted on their home loans in the last three years.

So is it a buyer's market? Yes and no. If you can secure a bank loan, you can shop around for the lowest price house/condo and even bargain under fair market value. The problem is actually getting a home loan.

When I was at PITT a 3 bedroom home in the 'burbs would sell for about $100,000. I bet it’s even lower with this housing slump. Good luck finding a home.
Click to expand...

It is a buyers market but a smart buyer will wait longer as real estate will continue to plumit.
 
Feli said:
While I certainly don't disagree here^, readers, esp beginning pre-pods like damp91, need to keep in mind that nothing comes easy.

There are also many senior residents elsewhere who are working hard to find even one single job offer with a group, hospital, or 6-figure salary. Some of that has to do with lack of flexibility on job location or trying to get a job in an area oversaturated with DPMs, but it also has a great deal to do with level of residency training.

This way of thinking^ is not at all correct IMO. You get out what you put in. One must bear in mind that both jonwill and stafocker are going to be graduating from consensus top 10 or 20 podiatry residency training programs, and they will have skills, knowledge, and surgical numbers/diversity that your average DPM coming out of training does not.

The bottom line is that you don't get six figure job offers from ortho groups just by doing any old residency. Also, I doubt most 3rd year residents who are securing top positions are simply kicking their feet up on a desk and just waiting for phone calls and offers to roll in. It's never bad to send out your CV to successful groups in desired areas and take a proactive approach to the job search.

Good further reading...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=396294
Click to expand...


I completely agree with Feli. Not every hard-working and graduating 3rd year podiatry resident will get the same job opportunities. If you go to a "high powered" residency, then the offers are more likely to come to you. Rather than a good or avg residency might not have that occur so your resident then needs to look around for jobs. Nothing wrong with those less well knowned programs, just they don't get the offers handed to them.
 
How do you get those "high powered" residency positions?
 
What is the opinion of Residents and senior students on "Buying a running practice" from a retiring or moving podiatrist? and does it matter what residency program the student does when opening his own practice or buying an established practice. and do all resdency programs make sure we do the minimum number of cases before we graduate so tat we can take the boards? (i heard we have to do certain number of procedures in each area to be eligible to sit in boards or be board eligible,etc). And is being member of board a mandatory requirement to perform surgeries or thats something totally decided by the ambulatory center or the hospital?
 
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I had not checked this forum in some time but after just seeing these comments I have to shed some light because some of you are delusional. 1st of all I'm not sure why some posters think that some other posters are somehow superior because they are doing what some of you now consider a "great program". In my opinion these referred to are not superior and your residency does not necessarily equate to your salary. If jonwill and whoever else you think should get let's say $130K out, then based on your training theory I should be making $160 I guess. Many of you ask questions/make comments about how much you think you will make coming out of residency - stupid way to approach what is one of the most important decisions you will make in your professional lives. I will tell you to find an ortho practice that will let you control the foot and ankle service with job security is rare. The fact is that if you can't participate in the general ortho call, you are less valuable. Also you may never be offered partnership which means no job security and if you are offered partnership, good luck finding the money to join because the buy-in to an established multi-practitioner ortho practice can be 5-6 times that of a group pod practice. Surgery is great - in residency I did tons of everything and in private practice I'm pretty busy as well but trying to correlate surgery with making a lot of money in podiatry is false. You will see that tons of surgery doesn't mean tons of money but you have to do what makes you happy.
 
presby said:
I had not checked this forum in some time but after just seeing these comments I have to shed some light because some of you are delusional. 1st of all I'm not sure why some posters think that some other posters are somehow superior because they are doing what some of you now consider a "great program". In my opinion these referred to are not superior and your residency does not necessarily equate to your salary. If jonwill and whoever else you think should get let's say $130K out, then based on your training theory I should be making $160 I guess. Many of you ask questions/make comments about how much you think you will make coming out of residency - stupid way to approach what is one of the most important decisions you will make in your professional lives. I will tell you to find an ortho practice that will let you control the foot and ankle service with job security is rare. The fact is that if you can't participate in the general ortho call, you are less valuable. Also you may never be offered partnership which means no job security and if you are offered partnership, good luck finding the money to join because the buy-in to an established multi-practitioner ortho practice can be 5-6 times that of a group pod practice. Surgery is great - in residency I did tons of everything and in private practice I'm pretty busy as well but trying to correlate surgery with making a lot of money in podiatry is false. You will see that tons of surgery doesn't mean tons of money but you have to do what makes you happy.
Click to expand...

Yo, sidetrack question:

Why did Penn-Presby drop the "U"? we've been asking that, but nobody from that program has been in the forum.

(this has nothing to do with the forum topic, but since you're here....)
 
presby said:
I had not checked this forum in some time but after just seeing these comments I have to shed some light because some of you are delusional. 1st of all I'm not sure why some posters think that some other posters are somehow superior because they are doing what some of you now consider a "great program". In my opinion these referred to are not superior and your residency does not necessarily equate to your salary. If jonwill and whoever else you think should get let's say $130K out, then based on your training theory I should be making $160 I guess. Many of you ask questions/make comments about how much you think you will make coming out of residency - stupid way to approach what is one of the most important decisions you will make in your professional lives. I will tell you to find an ortho practice that will let you control the foot and ankle service with job security is rare. The fact is that if you can't participate in the general ortho call, you are less valuable. Also you may never be offered partnership which means no job security and if you are offered partnership, good luck finding the money to join because the buy-in to an established multi-practitioner ortho practice can be 5-6 times that of a group pod practice. Surgery is great - in residency I did tons of everything and in private practice I'm pretty busy as well but trying to correlate surgery with making a lot of money in podiatry is false. You will see that tons of surgery doesn't mean tons of money but you have to do what makes you happy.
Click to expand...

Great points. As I mentioned once before, the starting salary first year out means far less than what happens 4-5 years down the road. $150K/year initially doesn't mean much if the buy-in is $1,000,000 four years in, or worse yet, if there's no option for buy-in at all. Believe me, one sure way to find job dissatisfaction would be to know that while you're working hard generating $600K for your bosses, you only get 1/4 of that and are lining their pockets with an extra six figures per year.

Nat
 
presby said:
I had not checked this forum in some time but after just seeing these comments I have to shed some light because some of you are delusional. 1st of all I'm not sure why some posters think that some other posters are somehow superior because they are doing what some of you now consider a "great program". In my opinion these referred to are not superior and your residency does not necessarily equate to your salary. If jonwill and whoever else you think should get let's say $130K out, then based on your training theory I should be making $160 I guess. Many of you ask questions/make comments about how much you think you will make coming out of residency - stupid way to approach what is one of the most important decisions you will make in your professional lives. I will tell you to find an ortho practice that will let you control the foot and ankle service with job security is rare. The fact is that if you can't participate in the general ortho call, you are less valuable. Also you may never be offered partnership which means no job security and if you are offered partnership, good luck finding the money to join because the buy-in to an established multi-practitioner ortho practice can be 5-6 times that of a group pod practice. Surgery is great - in residency I did tons of everything and in private practice I'm pretty busy as well but trying to correlate surgery with making a lot of money in podiatry is false. You will see that tons of surgery doesn't mean tons of money but you have to do what makes you happy.
Click to expand...

While you make some good points, you seem a bit bitter about something?
 
jonwill said:
While you make some good points, you seem a bit bitter about something?
Click to expand...

I've got no reason to be bitter about anything. I enjoy going to work every day and wouldn't change one single thing about my training. I'm just contributing my opinion because I see too many students and residents misled and given incorrect information.
 
presby said:
I've got no reason to be bitter about anything. I enjoy going to work every day and wouldn't change one single thing about my training. I'm just contributing my opinion because I see too many students and residents misled and given incorrect information.
Click to expand...

You're definitely entitled to your own opinion but I'm having a difficult time seeing how anybody is being misled. I'd have to disagree if you're advocating that training has nothing to do with earning potential. And generally speaking, those that attend the bigger name programs will get many good offers from around the country based on reputation. I would think that you would see this at the program that you trained at (which is usually referred to as a top tier program). But that is not to say that someone going to a less known, but solid program can't do just as well.

But I understand what you are saying concerning job offers and I think you're spot on. There is a lot more to consider than mere base salary.
 
jonwill said:
You're definitely entitled to your own opinion but I'm having a difficult time seeing how anybody is being misled. I'd have to disagree if you're advocating that training has nothing to do with earning potential. And generally speaking, those that attend the bigger name programs will get many good offers from around the country based on reputation. I would think that you would see this at the program that you trained at (which is usually referred to as a top tier program). But that is not to say that someone going to a less known, but solid program can't do just as well.

But I understand what you are saying concerning job offers and I think you're spot on. There is a lot more to consider than mere base salary.
Click to expand...

I'm definitely not "advocating that training has nothing to do with earning potential." Coming from a top tier surgical program gives one the skills to be proficient at patient management and surgical technique/decision making. However, there are other skills that are vital to monetary success and some may or may not be prepared for this when they finish residency. When considering job opportunities I think I definitely had an advantage to market myself and also in negotiating salary. My point is that coming from your program or my program is not enough - you have to also work on being a good businessman and you can never be satisfied. You have to push yourself to constantly be better.
 
presby said:
I'm definitely not "advocating that training has nothing to do with earning potential." Coming from a top tier surgical program gives one the skills to be proficient at patient management and surgical technique/decision making. However, there are other skills that are vital to monetary success and some may or may not be prepared for this when they finish residency. When considering job opportunities I think I definitely had an advantage to market myself and also in negotiating salary. My point is that coming from your program or my program is not enough - you have to also work on being a good businessman and you can never be satisfied. You have to push yourself to constantly be better.
Click to expand...

Very well said :thumbup:
 
Just for you all to remember. When it is said that a practice grosses $500K that is what is being billed out. Net collection (the actual checks) is what is coming into the practice after adjustments from the insurance. So, the higher number shouldn't ever be used as a figure of what the practice is generating.

Now those of you coming out of three year programs, some of you will see 6 figure salaries. But some of you will also see "base" salaries in the $85K - $95K range too. When you factor in malpractice, insurance benefits and time off it will jump up to 6 figures ($110K - $120K).

So, how do you get to these numbers? Well, when a group or a physician takes you on they have to get you on insurance plans and hospitals which can take anywhere from 3 - 6 months. During this time, you may be seeing patients, but you might not be able to bill for them (you might have to bill under the senior podiatrists insurance numbers). So if you have a base salary of 100K and your bonus starts at $275K and you get 50% of the bonus if you generate over 275K then if you collect $300K then you should go home with a first year salary of $112,500.

Remember to check the books of the practice you are joining to make sure that they can afford you. A simple rule of thumb is if you are required to see 30 patients a day then at a minimum you should be able to collect $360K/year. That's based on a established patient office visit (99213 = $50). So 30 X $50 = $1500 X 5 days/week = $7500 x 4 weeks = $30K x 12 months = $360K. In the beginning will you see 30 patients a day, yes and no.

Ok, I'm stepping off of my soapbox.:laugh:
 
SportPOD said:
Just for you all to remember. When it is said that a practice grosses $500K that is what is being billed out. Net collection (the actual checks) is what is coming into the practice after adjustments from the insurance. So, the higher number shouldn't ever be used as a figure of what the practice is generating.

Now those of you coming out of three year programs, some of you will see 6 figure salaries. But some of you will also see "base" salaries in the $85K - $95K range too. When you factor in malpractice, insurance benefits and time off it will jump up to 6 figures ($110K - $120K).

So, how do you get to these numbers? Well, when a group or a physician takes you on they have to get you on insurance plans and hospitals which can take anywhere from 3 - 6 months. During this time, you may be seeing patients, but you might not be able to bill for them (you might have to bill under the senior podiatrists insurance numbers). So if you have a base salary of 100K and your bonus starts at $275K and you get 50% of the bonus if you generate over 275K then if you collect $300K then you should go home with a first year salary of $112,500.

Remember to check the books of the practice you are joining to make sure that they can afford you. A simple rule of thumb is if you are required to see 30 patients a day then at a minimum you should be able to collect $360K/year. That's based on a established patient office visit (99213 = $50). So 30 X $50 = $1500 X 5 days/week = $7500 x 4 weeks = $30K x 12 months = $360K. In the beginning will you see 30 patients a day, yes and no.

Ok, I'm stepping off of my soapbox.:laugh:
Click to expand...

great info, please post more...
 
SportPOD said:
A simple rule of thumb is if you are required to see 30 patients a day then at a minimum you should be able to collect $360K/year.
Click to expand...

Speaking of number of patients, whats the average number of patients a well established Podiatrist sees. i mean 30 daily seems like a big number. that means daily 30 people having foot problems.:) especially in cities which are pretty saturated with Pods sounds like unusual.
 
cool_vkb said:
Speaking of number of patients, whats the average number of patients a well established Podiatrist sees. i mean 30 daily seems like a big number. that means daily 30 people having foot problems.:) especially in cities which are pretty saturated with Pods sounds like unusual.
Click to expand...

30 patients a day is pretty fair number, if you break it down into a full day, that's 15 patients in the morning and 15 patients in the evening.
 
SportPOD said:
NatCh said:
$50! Good Lord, you should move!

$50 is the average number it varies from 47 - 61, so maybe the average is more like $55?

Nope, haven't ridden my bike much in the past 9 years, I think after the dead horse incident, I hung up my shoes. :laugh:
Click to expand...

Medicare pays me a whopping $57 for a 99213 so I guess that's why I'm rolling in dough!
Click to expand...
 
For those of you in your residencies.....are any of you spending any time with your attendings to see the post ops? You might want to do this because sometimes it's a good thing to see what an incision looks like a couple weeks later. Also, you can get a feel for what post op swelling may look like and what type of pain the patient is feeling. For those of you who have clinic incorporated into your residency this is a bonus.
 
SportPOD said:
For those of you in your residencies.....are any of you spending any time with your attendings to see the post ops? You might want to do this because sometimes it's a good thing to see what an incision looks like a couple weeks later. Also, you can get a feel for what post op swelling may look like and what type of pain the patient is feeling. For those of you who have clinic incorporated into your residency this is a bonus.
Click to expand...

Excellent advice. Knowing what to do after you've closed the incision kind of helps. It's also good to see how to handle complications, both techinically and interpersonally.
 
SportPOD said:
For those of you in your residencies.....are any of you spending any time with your attendings to see the post ops? You might want to do this because sometimes it's a good thing to see what an incision looks like a couple weeks later. Also, you can get a feel for what post op swelling may look like and what type of pain the patient is feeling. For those of you who have clinic incorporated into your residency this is a bonus.
Click to expand...

Having completed a 3 year residency and being in private practice a few years I can say this is excellent advice. My program had the office clinical experience. Doing the procedure is one thing, while taking care of the patient throughout the course of treatment is another.

I went in as associate with another podiatrist and I think that new residents think they are worth more than they actually are. The expenses with a practice are high from supplies to rent, etc. Now I am not saying my boss isn't making money from me, but he did carry me when I first started and had some days with only a few patients. Sure your patient load grows but it can be slow. The time may come when I can do better on my own, but it is certainly not right now.
 
Hey fellas, ive got a quick question for yall, and it comes after reading the list of various residency locations, and the requirements for those programs that Stafocker linked in the other forum.

I noticed on those program descriptions they require letters of rec. Where do these programs expect letters of rec to come from? directors or other professionals at externship locations during the 4th year?

They dont seem to be to specific on the qualifications of the person writing these letters, at least on these one page descriptions, unlike applying to pod and other med schools.

Where did you guys find good places to hunt for letters of rec at, to use towards your placements? Who are they really looking to get recomendations from, and who aren't they?

And also, what do MATCH ONLY programs mean? Do you not just apply to these programs during your 4th year? I see some of them require you to have done an externship there before you apply, thats not what they mean by match right?

alrighty thanks gang :)
 
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