JFK MFT vs Psyd Program

[DCraig]

Hello all,
I am currently finishing up my Bachelors and struggling with the decision of going into a MFT track or Psyd program after. I live close-ish to the bay area so JFK and Alliant are the only two for Psyd programs that are APA accredited.
I recently went to an open house at JFK and seemed like a good school with passionate teachers. The Masters in Counseling Psychology with a Holistic Specialization intrigued me as I think it is a rising trend with mindfulness and so forth. However, after reading some of the threads, I feel like their reputation has been at odds.
The end goal for me is to open a private practice and do one-on-one therapy and the holistic integration sounds great as I don't want most of my career to be centered around assessments as I hear Psyd field can be. However, I also know CA is highly saturated as many go for their Masters since it is easier to attain.
If anyone has any thoughts or advice on this topic, I would truly appreciate it!

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[kasmir8199]

Check to see if either of the two programs in your area allow you to complete your masters while pursuing your Psy.D.

To be honest with you, you should be able to do the same line of work that you're interested in with either degree however if you choose to pursue your masters in marriage and family counseling (or any degree in psychology, social work, counseling, etc), in order for you to be able to open a private practice of your own, you will need to obtain your full license prior to doing so (LMFT, LCSW, LPC). Depending on the legislature in the state you intend the practice, you may run into some difficulty with being able to diagnose and being able to accept private insurance...just some things to consider.

I obtained my masters in rehabilitation psychology in 2004 and have worked for years as a therapist in the community and in various clinical settings. The jobs that I have performed, I've done so alongside of those with degrees in MFT and in social work...exact same jobs, exact same pay. However in Georgia, an LPC cannot currently diagnose patients whereas LMFTs and LCSWs can. An LPC would be able to sign a 10-13 medical order to have someone admitted to a hospital (LMFTs cannot). There's also an application process involved in being able to accept private insurance as well (termed being "paneled").

With a Psy.D. or Ph.D. and licensure, you will have more employment options and a higher pay scale. I'm not sure about any limitations with insurance, as I'm not on this level (yet), but I thinking there are very little, if any limitations in the areas mentioned above after acquiring your license. You can certainly practice in the manner you wish with either of the degrees you're considering.

I hope this helps!!

 

[Lola917]

Hello all,
I am currently finishing up my Bachelors and struggling with the decision of going into a MFT track or Psyd program after. I live close-ish to the bay area so JFK and Alliant are the only two for Psyd programs that are APA accredited.
I recently went to an open house at JFK and seemed like a good school with passionate teachers. The Masters in Counseling Psychology with a Holistic Specialization intrigued me as I think it is a rising trend with mindfulness and so forth. However, after reading some of the threads, I feel like their reputation has been at odds.
The end goal for me is to open a private practice and do one-on-one therapy and the holistic integration sounds great as I don't want most of my career to be centered around assessments as I hear Psyd field can be. However, I also know CA is highly saturated as many go for their Masters since it is easier to attain.
If anyone has any thoughts or advice on this topic, I would truly appreciate it!

If you are only looking at Bay Area programs, you may want to consider the Palo Alto University/PGSP Clinical Psychology PhD Program (97% APA Internship match rate) and the PGSP-Stanford Psy.D. Consortium (100% APA Internship match rate).

 

[ClinicalABA]

Hello all,
I recently went to an open house at JFK and seemed like a good school with passionate teachers.

This passion has translated to overall 23% (!) of their students who applied matching to an APA accredited internship over the past 5 years. They even had a few single-digit percentages there. That's really, really, low, and is indicative of some potential deficits in the training model. Over the past seven years, 25% of students have taken at least 7 years to graduate, with 18% needing more than 7 years. Tuition is STOOPID expensive (tuition and estimated fees, per year, for entering students ~36000!!). Do the math- 7 years X 36000 = $252000. Financed at 6.8%, that translates to a monthly student loan payment of ~$2000 for 20 years (~$462,000 total payment), ~$3000/month for 10 year repayment (only ~$360K total- such a bargain!). So... you have evidence (all from their own website) of poor training outcomes and crippling debt being the MODE experience. I'd venture that your criterion for determining that "it seems like a good school" might not take into account actual factors related to the likelihood of it leading to your desired outcomes. They were trying to sell you on an objectively VERY expensive program.

 

[erg923]

This passion has translated to overall 23% (!) of their students who applied matching to an APA accredited internship over the past 5 years. They even had a few single-digit percentages there. That's really, really, low, and is indicative of some potential deficits in the training model. Over the past seven years, 25% of students have taken at least 7 years to graduate, with 18% needing more than 7 years. Tuition is STOOPID expensive (tuition and estimated fees, per year, for entering students ~36000!!). Do the math- 7 years X 36000 = $252000. Financed at 6.8%, that translates to a monthly student loan payment of ~$2000 for 20 years (~$462,000 total payment), ~$3000/month for 10 year repayment (only ~$360K total- such a bargain!). So... you have evidence (all from their own website) of poor training outcomes and crippling debt being the MODE experience. I'd venture that your criterion for determining that "it seems like a good school" might not take into account actual factors related to the likelihood of it leading to your desired outcomes. They were trying to sell you on an objectively VERY expensive program.

Spot on. "Passionate teachers" is whats needed at Julliard. Its not really sufficient for what we are talking about here though.

Properly trained and taught psychologists need accomplished psychological scientists and practitioners with widely available exposure to clinical and research building opportunities. There is something to be said for high quality pedagogy but this is a level (and career) where much, much more is needed to make a quality graduate training program in clinical psychology.

 

[calimich]

Hello all,
I am currently finishing up my Bachelors and struggling with the decision of going into a MFT track or Psyd program after. I live close-ish to the bay area so JFK and Alliant are the only two for Psyd programs that are APA accredited.
I recently went to an open house at JFK and seemed like a good school with passionate teachers. The Masters in Counseling Psychology with a Holistic Specialization intrigued me as I think it is a rising trend with mindfulness and so forth. However, after reading some of the threads, I feel like their reputation has been at odds.
The end goal for me is to open a private practice and do one-on-one therapy and the holistic integration sounds great as I don't want most of my career to be centered around assessments as I hear Psyd field can be. However, I also know CA is highly saturated as many go for their Masters since it is easier to attain.
If anyone has any thoughts or advice on this topic, I would truly appreciate it!

These are common and good to ask questions.

If your goal is practice as you describe, imo you're better off pursuing an MA. The MFT degree is solid in California but has limited portability; you might also look into MSW programs as the LCSW is better known outside of CA. A bit more here:

MFT vs. LCSW

If you do decide on an MFT, there are cheaper options than JFK. Most state schools (CSUs) have reputable MFT programs. Here is a link to CA MFT programs:

Schools with MFT Degree Programs - California Board of Behavioral Sciences

Regarding doc programs, it's good that you're looking at APA accredited schools, however as others mention, the ones you listed are poor options. If you really are limited to the Bay, PGSP Stanford and Wright are better options. Generally, you'll have a much better chance at success if you expand your geographic range. (Remember, internship/postdoc are required for licensure, and most students apply nation wide.)