Is there no demand for podiatrists? why is it so easy to get in to pod school?

[dantheman2007]

hi guys,
i am really curious as to why the stats to get into a pod school are so low.
is there no demand for podiatrists? u would think podiatrists are needed just as much as internists.
i just don't get it.
anyone have any insight behind this profession?
-dan

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[krabmas]

hi guys,
i am really curious as to why the stats to get into a pod school are so low.
is there no demand for podiatrists? u would think podiatrists are needed just as much as internists.
i just don't get it.
anyone have any insight behind this profession?
-dan

this has been discussed before. please do a search.

 

[jonwill]

hi guys,
i am really curious as to why the stats to get into a pod school are so low.
is there no demand for podiatrists? u would think podiatrists are needed just as much as internists.
i just don't get it.
anyone have any insight behind this profession?
-dan

There is plenty of demand for pods. Think of it this way: What if there was no such thing as "medical school" collectively speaking? What if there were only separate schools such as internal med school, gen surg, ob/gyn, psych, ortho, etc? In other words, what if all specialties had their own separate schools? You'd see exactly what you see with podiatry. Students with high stats would get the greatly desired specialties and those with lower gpa's/mcats would get the less desired specialties. Stats would greatly vary across the board. But instead, what you see with MD/DO is that residency placement is much more competitive.

Now bring into play the fact that many people (especially pre-meds) are very uneducated when it comes to the field creating a negative bias. If podiatry really was clipping nails and trimming calluses all day, I'd have bailed long ago.

Another interesting debate is the fact that podiatry has largely evolved into a surgical sub-specialty. Many wonder why it doesn't just become an MD residency all together.

 

[biology]

So, I was thinking about posting the same type of question, but i noticed that someone has already made a thread for it. I have a friend who has horrible DAT score i mean sub 15 in everything and a 2.9 gpa and has interviews..i mean what does sthat say about the profession?..DOES EVERYONE get accepted that applies, bc it seems like it. I haven't heard ONE person get denied ever!!!! I say that they raise the credentials for getting accepted and then people won't think its a guarenteed acceptance fall back plan to whatever they were pursuing!
It just frusterates me bc i'm actually interested in this and they let anyone who has the very very bare min IN!!!

 

[PODonny]

So, I was thinking about posting the same type of question, but i noticed that someone has already made a thread for it. I have a friend who has horrible DAT score i mean sub 15 in everything and a 2.9 gpa and has interviews..i mean what does sthat say about the profession?..DOES EVERYONE get accepted that applies, bc it seems like it. I haven't heard ONE person get denied ever!!!! I say that they raise the credentials for getting accepted and then people won't think its a guarenteed acceptance fall back plan to whatever they were pursuing!
It just frusterates me bc i'm actually interested in this and they let anyone who has the very very bare min IN!!!

The stats that are acceptable vary among schools. Also, getting in and getting through are completely separate things. Pod school is very demanding and there are no guarantees anyone will make it through the first year. Then there are still two board exams to pass before actually graduating. It's no picnic.

 

[jays2cool4u]

So, I was thinking about posting the same type of question, but i noticed that someone has already made a thread for it. I have a friend who has horrible DAT score i mean sub 15 in everything and a 2.9 gpa and has interviews..i mean what does sthat say about the profession?..DOES EVERYONE get accepted that applies, bc it seems like it. I haven't heard ONE person get denied ever!!!! I say that they raise the credentials for getting accepted and then people won't think its a guarenteed acceptance fall back plan to whatever they were pursuing!
It just frusterates me bc i'm actually interested in this and they let anyone who has the very very bare min IN!!!

If you are that grossly concerned about the reputation of the profession then I would suggest you do not apply.

 

[sadipagla]

It might be easy to get in but looking at the curriculam a pod student has to go through, I am pretty sure unless you are really qualified and hard working you won't make it till the end.

 

[WannaBeDPM]

Also, those who don't get accepted...probably aren't super excited about sharing it with everyone..so I'm sure you would seldom hear of it, but it OF COURSE happens..especially from the more competitive schools (AZPOD, DMU & Scholl)

 

[biology]

well i'm telling you that even people with the worst grades ever have gotten accepted somewhere, and it upsets me that they are just allowing anyone in to their schools when it should be a somewhat competitive profession, but its not. I mean a 19 and above mcat, thats just rediculous, those people should never be doctors. I think anyone with a bio degree that didn't study could pull that off. It seems like they are just making people take it to take it, just so that can say "yes everyone has taken the mcat at our school"...
And i mean please i've known like 4 people that have just applied who have horrible grades and bam their in. So i highly doubt anyone EVER gets rejected. EVER and its just sad

 

[jonwill]

well i'm telling you that even people with the worst grades ever have gotten accepted somewhere, and it upsets me that they are just allowing anyone in to their schools when it should be a somewhat competitive profession, but its not. I mean a 19 and above mcat, thats just rediculous, those people should never be doctors. I think anyone with a bio degree that didn't study could pull that off. It seems like they are just making people take it to take it, just so that can say "yes everyone has taken the mcat at our school"...
And i mean please i've known like 4 people that have just applied who have horrible grades and bam their in. So i highly doubt anyone EVER gets rejected. EVER and its just sad

As stated before, quite a few are rejected from the upper-tier schools. I was involved in the interview process as a student from one of them and I saw a healthy amount of rejections. I have since had friends rejected. But you are correct in that some of the schools will basically take anyone. It is a sad thing. I guess it all comes down to $$$ and filling the seats.

Fortunately, many of these people never make it through. Unfortunately, they then become very bitter towards the profession. In my opinion, both parties are to blame.

 

[Stafocker]

As stated before, quite a few are rejected from the upper-tier schools. I was involved in the interview process as a student from one of them and I saw a healthy amount of rejections. I have since had friends rejected. But you are correct in that some of the schools will basically take anyone. It is a sad thing. I guess it all comes down to $$$ and filling the seats.

Fortunately, many of these people never make it through. Unfortunately, they then become very bitter towards the profession. In my opinion, both parties are to blame.

agreed

 

[biology]

I guess i will have to agree with you, but i just think it sad bc podiatry has so much to offer!!!.....
ok enough said,,,,nite

 

[Cheetos]

I guess i will have to agree with you, but i just think it sad bc podiatry has so much to offer!!!.....
ok enough said,,,,nite

Don't forget that the lower tier schools do have the highest drop out rates. Actually even the top tier schools have high drop out rates. Only the truly qualified can make it thru. Even though AZPOD is one of the top tier programs we still have a approx 1/4 dropout rate as well So don't come in thinking its an easy field just because admissions wasn't as competitive as the MD/DO schools. The course work is just as rigorous and tough. My bet is your friend won't make it through the first year unless he completely changes his studying habit.

 

[dawgtired]

Originally Posted by biology
well i'm telling you that even people with the worst grades ever have gotten accepted somewhere, and it upsets me that they are just allowing anyone in to their schools when it should be a somewhat competitive profession, but its not. I mean a 19 and above mcat, thats just rediculous, those people should never be doctors. I think anyone with a bio degree that didn't study could pull that off. It seems like they are just making people take it to take it, just so that can say "yes everyone has taken the mcat at our school"...
And i mean please i've known like 4 people that have just applied who have horrible grades and bam their in. So i highly doubt anyone EVER gets rejected. EVER and its just sad

Are you trying to upset people? Seriously? Lots of people get rejected from pod schools. DMU received 375 applicants last year and interviewed maybe 100 for a class of 59. You can't honestly think that people NEVER get rejected.

 

[karntrev]

well i'm telling you that even people with the worst grades ever have gotten accepted somewhere, and it upsets me that they are just allowing anyone in to their schools when it should be a somewhat competitive profession, but its not. I mean a 19 and above mcat, thats just rediculous, those people should never be doctors. I think anyone with a bio degree that didn't study could pull that off. It seems like they are just making people take it to take it, just so that can say "yes everyone has taken the mcat at our school"...
And i mean please i've known like 4 people that have just applied who have horrible grades and bam their in. So i highly doubt anyone EVER gets rejected. EVER and its just sad

Not true, I'll be the first to admit I was rejected by both AZPOD and DMU. My gpa is a 2.9, there is a long history behind why it so low so I won't get into it. But I have done a year and a half of graduate school and have a gpa of 3.85. So when I applied after a semster of graduate school, AZPOD and DMU didn't care and rejected me. However, Scholl, Temple, NYCPM, and OCPM all offered me interviews and I was accepted to Scholl. So don't say that no one gets rejected because they do. I also agree with what was said earlier that getting in and getting through are completely different.

 

[narkotiks]

Not true, I'll be the first to admit I was rejected by both AZPOD and DMU. My gpa is a 2.9, there is a long history behind why it so low so I won't get into it. But I have done a year and a half of graduate school and have a gpa of 3.85. So when I applied after a semster of graduate school, AZPOD and DMU didn't care and rejected me. However, Scholl, Temple, NYCPM, and OCPM all offered me interviews and I was accepted to Scholl. So don't say that no one gets rejected because they do. I also agree with what was said earlier that getting in and getting through are completely different.

This may have already been said, but ill say it again: pod is in the situation that dental was 10+ yrs agao, and medical so long ago. it is cyclical, and we just happen to in the down cycle. i can already see an increase in intrest=applications since i applied. things are picking up, and i am just happy to be ahead of the curve! don't get too upset about people you may see as being under qualified entering school. there are built in stops for these people, such as part 1 and part 2 boards. its the same thing that Feelgood always talks about wen he says the MCAT is the great equalizer. if these people can't pass boards, they won't go on. a few may slip by, but i wouldn't get all bent out of shape over it. i like the attention our profession is getting. it increases awareness, and may very well lead to more patients in the end. i would bet that your family dentist did not have anywhere near the grades that successfull applicants today have, same with your family doc. they did however pass the boards, and you are probably in good health, so things are fine!

 

[Stafocker]

Not true, I'll be the first to admit I was rejected by both AZPOD and DMU. My gpa is a 2.9, there is a long history behind why it so low so I won't get into it. But I have done a year and a half of graduate school and have a gpa of 3.85. So when I applied after a semster of graduate school, AZPOD and DMU didn't care and rejected me. However, Scholl, Temple, NYCPM, and OCPM all offered me interviews and I was accepted to Scholl. So don't say that no one gets rejected because they do. I also agree with what was said earlier that getting in and getting through are completely different.

If you go to SCPM, it's no joke.... hope you're ready to work and from your 3.85 GPA in graduate school, you probably are. Good luck, dude or dudette.

 

[165007]

If you are that grossly concerned about the reputation of the profession then I would suggest you do not apply.

I agree with jays. I wouldnt want to be in the same classroom as someone like you.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Out of curiosity, what kind of GPA and MCAT does one need to be considered a competitive applicant to schools like DMU and Scholl?

 

[doclm]

Out of curiosity, what kind of GPA and MCAT does one need to be considered a competitive applicant to schools like DMU and Scholl?

Well, I believe last years average at Scholl was a 23 on MCAT and 3.25 GPA. Also, I think there are many more applicants this year than last, which will probably boost the stats even more for next year.

As far as DMU goes, I would guess them to have a +2 higher MCAT and +.2 GPA average. However, I do not know the exact figures.

 

[dantheman2007]

thanks everyone for ur input.
-dan

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

So, I was thinking about posting the same type of question, but i noticed that someone has already made a thread for it. I have a friend who has horrible DAT score i mean sub 15 in everything and a 2.9 gpa and has interviews..i mean what does sthat say about the profession?..DOES EVERYONE get accepted that applies, bc it seems like it. I haven't heard ONE person get denied ever!!!! I say that they raise the credentials for getting accepted and then people won't think its a guarenteed acceptance fall back plan to whatever they were pursuing!
It just frusterates me bc i'm actually interested in this and they let anyone who has the very very bare min IN!!!

One of our DPM's here at Azpod gave this information. Hopefully, it will dispel some of the rumours and unease. I can only speak for Azpod, but we have nothing to hide and are very open with our statistics.
Again, look at each school. Ask them questions. If they are not open about there information, you probably should think twice about that school.
Here is the quote
"As of August 10, 2007 we processed 356 apps and 144 were denied (never
got an interview) and 19 rejected (interviewed but not accepted) about
111 withdrew, about 41 accepted/deposited, 18 were on the alternate
list and the remaining 23 were still in process ie. had been invited but
not interviewed yet.



So 40% of the apps never even got an interview and the writers cut off
of who gets in is not close to our 3.0 Science GPA and 20 MCAT 19 DAT
to get an interview let alone the average matriculant's demographic of
3.4 GPA and 23 MCAT in the class of 2010 and 2011...hope this helps"

 

[grinley]

If one is so horribly considered about "low" scores. There are also plenty Caribbean medical schools that offer m.d. programs. I believe that their average are way lower than DPM!!! Woohoo DMU class of 2012

 

[Stafocker]

If one is so horribly considered about "low" scores. There are also plenty Caribbean medical schools that offer m.d. programs. I believe that their average are way lower than DPM!!! Woohoo DMU class of 2012

haha, great point... about the Caribbean MD schools. And they are actually cheaper than DPM schools if you take ALL the costs involved. definitely check them out if you're scores are too low. We'll always need more PCP's. Good luck.

 

[Feli]

If one is so horribly considered about "low" scores. There are also plenty Caribbean medical schools that offer m.d. programs. I believe that their average are way lower than DPM!!! Woohoo DMU class of 2012

This is a very good analogy. I've compared some of the less selective pod schools to Caribbean med schools before. They are sililar in high attrition rate and low incoming student stats.

The bottom line is that while some poor students may get accpeted, they don't graduate unless they had the talent necessary and drastically changed their study habits during the graduate program.

To the OP, some great points were made throughout this thread. Some pod schools are pretty selective, and the less selective ones are that way due to lack of applications (which should change as awareness of podiatry, salaries, and quality of pod schools/residencies continues to rise). Most of the programs won't graduate poor students, and there are a ton of checkpoints built into the system: multiple hard courses and professors who will fail poor students, board exams, state licensing exams, surgery board exams, etc etc etc. The graduating DPMs coming out are all pretty bright and at least minimally qualified. The lower end pod programs may have to accept some students with less than stellar stats due to lack of interest, but those will typically be the high MCAT/low gpa variety who at least have the potential to do well if they study harder.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

If one is so horribly considered about "low" scores. There are also plenty Caribbean medical schools that offer m.d. programs. I believe that their average are way lower than DPM!!! Woohoo DMU class of 2012

Absolutely untrue. It depends on the medical school, actually, there are schools such as SGU, Ross, Saba and AUC which have pretty high standards of at leat a 3.2+ gpa, and an MCAT score of around 26 or higher; there are other caribbean medical schools such as St. Eustatius, St. James, St. Matthews and Windsor that require a competitive GPA of about a 3.0 (cumulative and science) and a respectable MCAT score (tho there are some schools that don't require MCATs for entry). JW made a good point; success is dependent on the student's ability to passing exams and honing the necessary study skills for success in medical school proper. True, an overwhelming amount of M.D. graduates from the caribbean get residencies in primary care (Internal Medicine, Emergency Medicine, Family Practice, Peds, OB-GYN), however there are those who land onto surgical, neurology, derm,etc residencies, though it is competitive and one's gpa and board scores are indicative of matching in those residencies. However, landing a residency in primary care is a stepping stone, as a specialty in internal medicine can lead to a subspecialty in say: nephrology, cardiology, gastroenterology, rheumetology, infectious diseases, pulmonology, endocrinology, geriatrics, critical care medicine, sports medicine, cardiac electrophysiology, hematology, medical oncology etc.

I have a very good friend who is a graduate of St. James School of Medicine and he recently completed his residency for Internal Medicine and is now in a fellowship for Gastroenterology for the NVHS (northern virginia health systems). After his fellowship he'll enjoy a life standard of ~300-400k a year as a gastroenterologist, provided via a primary care residency.

 

[Feli]

Absolutely untrue. It depends on the medical school, actually, there are schools such as SGU, Ross, Saba and AUC which have pretty high standards of at leat a 3.2+ gpa, and an MCAT score of around 26 or higher...

I think SGU is the only real selective Caribbean school.

A few people who flunked out of my program in the first or second year were accepted to Ross right after, and that kinda makes you wonder if their gpa/MCAT stats are for their incoming students or graduates? We also have a SPM program here at my school with many borderline pre-med/dent/pharm/etc students, and I've heard from more than a few people that all you really need to get into some Carib schools is a 20+ MCAT and a passing a credit check (since tuition alone there is sometimes $40k or more). I'm not saying you can't get a great education there, but keep in mind that those programs have sky high attrition rates. Many well known US student loan services have cut off loans to students of many Carib schools because too many of those students were flunking out with tons of debt they have no way to repay...

 

[Stafocker]

Absolutely untrue. It depends on the medical school, actually, there are schools such as SGU, Ross, Saba and AUC which have pretty high standards of at leat a 3.2+ gpa, and an MCAT score of around 26 or higher; there are other caribbean medical schools such as St. Eustatius, St. James, St. Matthews and Windsor that require a competitive GPA of about a 3.0 (cumulative and science) and a respectable MCAT score (tho there are some schools that don't require MCATs for entry). JW made a good point; success is dependent on the student's ability to passing exams and honing the necessary study skills for success in medical school proper. True, an overwhelming amount of M.D. graduates from the caribbean get residencies in primary care (Internal Medicine, Emergency Medicine, Family Practice, Peds, OB-GYN), however there are those who land onto surgical, neurology, derm,etc residencies, though it is competitive and one's gpa and board scores are indicative of matching in those residencies. However, landing a residency in primary care is a stepping stone, as a specialty in internal medicine can lead to a subspecialty in say: nephrology, cardiology, gastroenterology, rheumetology, infectious diseases, pulmonology, endocrinology, geriatrics, critical care medicine, sports medicine, cardiac electrophysiology, hematology, medical oncology etc.

I have a very good friend who is a graduate of St. James School of Medicine and he recently completed his residency for Internal Medicine and is now in a fellowship for Gastroenterology for the NVHS (northern virginia health systems). After his fellowship he'll enjoy a life standard of ~300-400k a year as a gastroenterologist, provided via a primary care residency.

Quick question:

I thought Primary Care was different from IM, Emed, OB-GYN etc. Or am I thinking of Family Practice?....

at the Chicago Medical School, my friends matched at all those different specialties including a separate "Primary Care" residency. I always thought PCP was the same as FP where they are trained in a little bit of everything where Internal Medicine is separate and an actual specialty and is "organ-system based". I thought PC was not a specialization, but the "general" practitioner or FP guy and that IM was a specialization where you can then sub-specialize in what your friend is doing, etc.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

I think SGU is the only real selective Caribbean school.

A few people who flunked out of my program in the first or second year were accepted to Ross right after, and that kinda makes you wonder if their gpa/MCAT stats are for their incoming students or graduates? We also have a SPM program here at my school with many borderline pre-med/dent/pharm/etc students, and I've heard from more than a few people that all you really need to get into some Carib schools is a 20+ MCAT and a passing a credit check (since tuition alone there is sometimes $40k or more). I'm not saying you can't get a great education there, but keep in mind that those programs have sky high attrition rates. Many well known US student loan services have cut off loans to students of many Carib schools because too many of those students were flunking out with tons of debt they have no way to repay...

Untrue. In St. Eustatius alone, the class of 2007 graduated 30 students and all 30 were matched with residencies in the United States, primarily Internal Medicine, Emergency Med, Peds, with some taking surgical, neuro, psych residencies. Same goes for St. James, Windsor, Saba, Ross, AUC, St Mathews etc. You might want to read up some more. St. George is well known only because they admit 600 students per term, there's just well known due to the shear numbers of graduates they produce a year. Caribbean medical schools are just like any allopathic medical school in the United States. If you expect to survive, there needs to be a dedication on one's part to studying and passing the USMLE1s in order to proceed to the clinical sciences.
As for the tuition, its not as bad as you think. St. James and Ross are quite expensive due to the fact of the bureaucracy involved in such large schools, however, schools such as St. Eustatius is about 7k per trimester so around 21k a year (not including cost of living, etc). The main priorities shouldn't be the cost, but one's ability to pass the examinations, scoring well on the USMLEs and landing on a decent residency. In the end, medical school is medical school. The 'M.D.' will be there and the same information is taught, despite the location. The only difference is that US MD graduates will come out of medical school in debt up to 200+k, while carib MD grads will be in residency but in debt in about 100+k or even less.

Secondly, your friends who transferred to Ross probably started as freshmen as Medical School (allopathic) in the United States, Caribbean do not recognize Podiatry courses as equivalent to medical school courses taught. Perhaps, im sure combined schools such as DMU, which allows DO and DPM students to sit in the same anatomy courses, however, when one refers to allopathic medicine, we tend to be more traditional and conservative. Additionally, their performance in podiatry will be indicative of their performance in medical school proper, as allopathic medicine is more TOTAL in its instruction. Hope that helps.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

Quick question:

I thought Primary Care was different from IM, Emed, OB-GYN etc. Or am I thinking of Family Practice?....

at the Chicago Medical School, my friends matched at all those different specialties including a separate "Primary Care" residency. I always thought PCP was the same as FP where they are trained in a little bit of everything where Internal Medicine is separate and an actual specialty and is "organ-system based". I thought PC was not a specialization, but the "general" practitioner or FP guy and that IM was a specialization where you can then sub-specialize in what your friend is doing, etc.

You're thinking family practice, which is part of the broader context of Primary Care.

When they refer to primary care, they refer to:

-Internal Medicine (multiple subspecialties in this)
-Pediatrics
-Family Practice
-Emergency Medicine
-Obstetrics-Gynecology

Harder residencies such as: Surgery, Dermatology, Neurology etc will require a high gpa as well as high board exam results. Also depends on one's impression towards resident directors and attending physicians during clinical rotations.

 

[krabmas]

Quick question:

I thought Primary Care was different from IM, Emed, OB-GYN etc. Or am I thinking of Family Practice?....

at the Chicago Medical School, my friends matched at all those different specialties including a separate "Primary Care" residency. I always thought PCP was the same as FP where they are trained in a little bit of everything where Internal Medicine is separate and an actual specialty and is "organ-system based". I thought PC was not a specialization, but the "general" practitioner or FP guy and that IM was a specialization where you can then sub-specialize in what your friend is doing, etc.

you are partially correct.

The 1st year of residency for all medical residencies is the intern year.

Some programs have the intern year integrated into the program. Such as General Surgery, Orthopedic Surgery, OB-GYN, Family Practice, Podiatry, Internal Medicine, ER, neurology, neurosurgery(that is all I can think of)

Then there are the programs that match the residents but the residents also must match for their 1st year as Interns or Rotational year. These are Derm, opthomology, (all I know of)

Internal medicine is a 3 year program where the 1st year is the intern year.

I am not sure where Peds falls or oncology or cardiac surgery or plastic surgery or physiatry

After General surgery you can specialize in Gastroenterology, Proctology, Urology, vascular surgery (can also do after internal medicine)

Some orthopedic surgeons (most) do fellowships for: sports medicine, joint implants, pediatric orthopedics, orthopedic oncologist, foot and ankle, hand, spine, etc

A general practitioner (sp) has completed medical school and maybe a year of residency (intern year).

An internist has completed 3 years of residency as has Family practice.

After internal medicine people tend to specialize in endocrinology, infectious diseases, cardiology, GI?, and maybe more.

That is my take on the specialties game.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

you are partially correct.

The 1st year of residency for all medical residencies is the intern year.

Some programs have the intern year integrated into the program. Such as General Surgery, Orthopedic Surgery, OB-GYN, Family Practice, Podiatry, Internal Medicine, ER, neurology, neurosurgery(that is all I can think of)

True, however, your examples are partially correct. Orthopedic surgeons train 1 year in general surgery as Prem-Surgery 1 residents and then an additional 4 years of orthopedic surgery; however, there are those who take the 4 year residency in general surgery and then a fellowship in orthopedic; so in most reality, orthopedic surgery trainees aren't interns, but actually general surgeons in fellowship training. The same applies for neurosurgery. In order to go into neurosurgery, one needs to complete the mandatory 4 year general surgery residency and then afterwards, an additional 3-4 years fellowship training.

I am not sure where Peds falls or oncology or cardiac surgery or plastic surgery or physiatry

After General surgery you can specialize in Gastroenterology, Proctology, Urology, vascular surgery (can also do after internal medicine)

Pediatrics is considered primary care. Oncology is a specialized field, and one can enter medical oncology fellowships after finishing a 3 year residency in internal medicine. Cardiothoracic surgery is a subspecialized surgical field, and one completes a 3-4 year fellowship in that after a 4 year mandatory general surgery residency. Proctology and urology are both specialized fields, which can be entered upon finishing 3-4 years of fellowship after th 3 year internal medicine residency. Same applies for Gastroenterology.

After internal medicine people tend to specialize in endocrinology, infectious diseases, cardiology, GI?, and maybe more.

The following are areas of specialization after finishing a 3 year residency program in internal medicine:

• Allergy/Immunology
• Cardiology
• Critical care medicine
• Endocrinology
• Gastroenterology
• Geriatric medicine
• Hematology/Oncology
• Infectious diseases
• Nuclear medicine
• Nephrology
• Pulmonology
• Rheumatology

 

[Doctor]

The following are areas of specialization after finishing a 3 year residency program in internal medicine:

• Allergy/Immunology
• Cardiology
• Critical care medicine
• Endocrinology
• Gastroenterology
• Geriatric medicine
• Hematology/Oncology
• Infectious diseases
• Nuclear medicine
• Nephrology
• Pulmonology
• Rheumatology

As you are at a Carib school, just remember that several of those fellowships are closed off to you. Cardiology, Allergy, Gastro, etc. only take those from top IM residencies... and top IM residencies don't take Caribbean grads.

 

[Doctor]

Absolutely untrue. It depends on the medical school, actually, there are schools such as SGU, Ross, Saba and AUC which have pretty high standards of at leat a 3.2+ gpa, and an MCAT score of around 26 or higher; there are other caribbean medical schools such as St. Eustatius, St. James, St. Matthews and Windsor that require a competitive GPA of about a 3.0 (cumulative and science) and a respectable MCAT score (tho there are some schools that don't require MCATs for entry).

And how is requiring a 2.75 GPA (those schools don't require a 3.0, sorry) with no MCAT necessary more competitive than Podiatry? If you are trying to say that Carib MD schools are more competitive than DPM schools, you are quite misinformed.

 

[OSUDDS]

thanks for the pwnage

 

[narkotiks]

True, however, your examples are partially correct. Orthopedic surgeons train 1 year in general surgery as Prem-Surgery 1 residents and then an additional 4 years of orthopedic surgery; however, there are those who take the 4 year residency in general surgery and then a fellowship in orthopedic; so in most reality, orthopedic surgery trainees aren't interns, but actually general surgeons in fellowship training. The same applies for neurosurgery. In order to go into neurosurgery, one needs to complete the mandatory 4 year general surgery residency and then afterwards, an additional 3-4 years fellowship training.




Pediatrics is considered primary care. Oncology is a specialized field, and one can enter medical oncology fellowships after finishing a 3 year residency in internal medicine. Cardiothoracic surgery is a subspecialized surgical field, and one completes a 3-4 year fellowship in that after a 4 year mandatory general surgery residency. Proctology and urology are both specialized fields, which can be entered upon finishing 3-4 years of fellowship after th 3 year internal medicine residency. Same applies for Gastroenterology.



The following are areas of specialization after finishing a 3 year residency program in internal medicine:

• Allergy/Immunology
• Cardiology
• Critical care medicine
• Endocrinology
• Gastroenterology
• Geriatric medicine
• Hematology/Oncology
• Infectious diseases
• Nuclear medicine
• Nephrology
• Pulmonology
• Rheumatology

urology is 7 years after med school?? no way. i don't belive that crap. you are saying that an ortho does, for example, 4 years gen. sx, and 1 yr ortho fellowship and he is set. a urologist/procto must due a 3 year internal ,AFTERWHICH he must do a 3-4 year fellowship????? im throwing the big red bull**** flag on that one!

stanford's program claims it is a 4 year residency, one of the years being general surgery, and that applicants are usually selected from 4th year medical classes, not 3 year res. spots of an internal program.

http://urology.stanford.edu/residents/residency_training.html

don't try and blow the MD business up into something that it isn't. 7 years for uro and 5 for ortho??? give me a break!!

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

You're judging where you have no right to judge.

It seems as if you have a grudge on Carib MD grads? Whats the deal? As for closed..um, I currently work at the local hospital and I know two surgical residents who graduated from SJSM and Ross. So what are you talking about? Medical school proper is more profound in its instruction, despite its location. FYI, Hundreds of Carib MD graduates get residencies in the states every year; IM/ER/PEDS/SURG/DERM. Seems like you're the one who is misinformed. Go troll somewhere else.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

urology is 7 years after med school?? no way. i don't belive that crap. you are saying that an ortho does, for example, 4 years gen. sx, and 1 yr ortho fellowship and he is set. a urologist/procto must due a 3 year internal ,AFTERWHICH he must do a 3-4 year fellowship????? im throwing the big red bull**** flag on that one!

stanford's program claims it is a 4 year residency, one of the years being general surgery, and that applicants are usually selected from 4th year medical classes, not 3 year res. spots of an internal program.

http://urology.stanford.edu/residents/residency_training.html

don't try and blow the MD profession up into something that it isn't.

Um no. Its no longer called proctology, as that is an oudated term, its commonly known as Colorectal surgery, bud.

:

Overview: A colorectal surgeon has a particular interest in diseases of the colon and rectum. To become proficient in the treatment and management of these conditions, a colorectal surgeon must undergo training in both general surgery and advanced training in problems of the lower digestive tract. A colorectal surgeon may also sometimes be known as a proctologist.

Training: A general surgery residency program generally includes 5 to 6 years of training after the completion of a 4-year medical school program. Specialized programs that a general surgeon must undergo to become a colon and rectal surgeon generally take 1 to 2 more years. In all, a colorectal surgeon has undergone a minimum of 14 years of formal classroom education and practical training before becoming certified.

++++++

As for urology, its 6 years, and apparently i made a flaw in forgetting to mention a mandatory surgical internship:

Heres Stanford's program:
SIX YEARS OF RESIDENCY ROTATIONS

PGY-1 - Intern in Surgery

Stanford University Medical Center (SUMC)
Veterans Affairs Palo Alto Health Care System (VAPAHCS)
Santa Clara Valley Medical Center (SCVMC)

PGY-2 - Resident in Surgery

9-10 months: General Surgical rotations at Kaiser Hospital, SCVMC, VAPAHCS
2- 3 months: Urology, VAPAHCS

PGY-3 - Junior Resident in Urology, SUMC

3 months: Pediatric Urology
9 months: General Urology, Neurourology, Oncology, Endourology, etc.

PGY-4 - Laboratory/Research

1 day per week: Transrectal Ultrasonography of the prostate
one-half day every other week: Urology Clinic at VAPAHCS

PGY-5 - Senior Resident in Urology

3 months: Pediatric Urology, Lucile Salter Packard Children's Hospital 3 months: Senior Resident, SUMC 6 months: SCVMC, San Jose (in 3 month blocks)

PGY-6 - Chief Resident in Urology

6 months: SUMC (in 3 month blocks)
6 months: VAPAHCS (in 3 month blocks)

http://urology.stanford.edu/residents/residency_training.html

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

urology is 7 years after med school?? no way. i don't belive that crap.
don't try and blow the MD business up into something that it isn't. 7 years for uro and 5 for ortho??? give me a break!!

1. Urology is a 6 year program.

2. As for orthopedic surgery: It is 5 years, as I said.

Orthopedic surgeons (also known as orthopedists) complete a minimum of 10 years of postsecondary education and clinical training. In the majority of cases this training includes obtaining an undergraduate degree (a few medical schools will admit students with as little as two years of undergraduate education), an allopathic degree or osteopathic degree (4 years), and then completing a five-year residency in orthopedic surgery. The five-year residency consists of one year of general surgery training followed by four years of training in orthopaedic surgery.
Many orthopedic surgeons elect to do further subspecialty training in programs known as 'fellowships' after completing their residency training. Fellowship training in an orthopedic subspeciality is typically one year in duration (sometimes two) and usually has a research component involved with the clinical and operative training. Examples of orthopedic subspecialty training in the US are:

1. Hand surgery (also performed by Plastic Surgeons)
2. Shoulder and elbow surgery
3. Total joint reconstruction (arthroplasty)
4. Pediatric orthopedics
5. Foot and ankle surgery (Also performed by podiatry)
6. Spine surgery (Also performed by neurosurgeons)
7. Musculoskeletal oncology
8. Surgical sports medicine
9. Orthopedic trauma

These are also the nine main sub-specialty areas of orthopedic surgery.
Hand surgery, and more recently Sports Medicine are the only truly recognized sub-specialties within orthopaedic surgery by the Accredited Council of Graduate Medical Education (ACGME). The other sub-specialities are informal concentrations of practice. To be recognized as a hand surgeon or sports surgeon, a practitioner must have completed an ACGME-accredited fellowship and obtained a Certificate of Added Qualifications (CAQ) which requires an additional standardized examination.

 

[oncogene]

You're judging where you have no right to judge.

It seems as if you have a grudge on Carib MD grads? Whats the deal? As for closed..um, I currently work at the local hospital and I know two surgical residents who graduated from SJSM and Ross. So what are you talking about? Go troll somewhere else.

Neurosurg is its own residency that does not require completion of gen surg residency.Same with ortho.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

You're right, however for orthopedics, there is a mandatory one year of general surgery, and 4 years of orthopedic surgery. As for neurosurgery, I acquiesce.

 

[narkotiks]

Um no. Its no longer called proctology, as that is an oudated term, its commonly known as Colorectal surgery, bud.

:

Overview: A colorectal surgeon has a particular interest in diseases of the colon and rectum. To become proficient in the treatment and management of these conditions, a colorectal surgeon must undergo training in both general surgery and advanced training in problems of the lower digestive tract. A colorectal surgeon may also sometimes be known as a proctologist.

Training: A general surgery residency program generally includes 5 to 6 years of training after the completion of a 4-year medical school program. Specialized programs that a general surgeon must undergo to become a colon and rectal surgeon generally take 1 to 2 more years. In all, a colorectal surgeon has undergone a minimum of 14 years of formal classroom education and practical training before becoming certified.

++++++

As for urology, its 6 years, and apparently i made a flaw in forgetting to mention a mandatory surgical internship:

Heres Stanford's program:
SIX YEARS OF RESIDENCY ROTATIONS

PGY-1 - Intern in Surgery

Stanford University Medical Center (SUMC)
Veterans Affairs Palo Alto Health Care System (VAPAHCS)
Santa Clara Valley Medical Center (SCVMC)

PGY-2 - Resident in Surgery

9-10 months: General Surgical rotations at Kaiser Hospital, SCVMC, VAPAHCS
2- 3 months: Urology, VAPAHCS

PGY-3 - Junior Resident in Urology, SUMC

3 months: Pediatric Urology
9 months: General Urology, Neurourology, Oncology, Endourology, etc.

PGY-4 - Laboratory/Research

1 day per week: Transrectal Ultrasonography of the prostate
one-half day every other week: Urology Clinic at VAPAHCS

PGY-5 - Senior Resident in Urology

3 months: Pediatric Urology, Lucile Salter Packard Children's Hospital 3 months: Senior Resident, SUMC 6 months: SCVMC, San Jose (in 3 month blocks)

PGY-6 - Chief Resident in Urology

6 months: SUMC (in 3 month blocks)
6 months: VAPAHCS (in 3 month blocks)

http://urology.stanford.edu/residents/residency_training.html

in post #32, you refer to it still as proctology...just going off the authority of someone about to begin medical school proper? it is your claim that urologists do a 3yr internal and then a 3-4 year fellow (isn't that what you said?) which puts the time spent in residency more than that of an ortho. that is wrong. uro is a four or five year residency (read the overview in the description of the program, 3rd pp 5th line) you flawed in leaving out the 1 yr gen sx. you flawed in calling a 4/5 year residency a 7 total year program. you flawed in saying that an internal medicine residency was required...it isn't.
i am very irritated that you prance around touting your med student proper status (which you are not yet a medical student by the way; a pregnant woman is pregnant with a child, but is not yet a mother because she hasn't yet given birth. in other words, you are almost a medical student. consider your orientation the analog of "birth", or don't..i really couldn't care less) stating things that just aren't true. at least look it up before you post. it is probably a five year with that 1st yr of gen sx. not 7.
maybe you should graduate on to the allopathic, medical school proper forum. i wouldn't mind. bud.

 

[PODonny]

This thread has really transformed...

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

LoL I agree and think we need to get back in topic.

 

[dpmgrad]

You're right, however for orthopedics, there is a mandatory one year of general surgery, and 4 years of orthopedic surgery. As for neurosurgery, I acquiesce.

Actually, Allopathic Orthopedic Surgery residency no longer requires an Orthopedic resident to complete a year of general surgery for PGY-1. This used to be true in the past. In fact, majority of Orthopedic Residency program are 5 year track programs. As per American Board of Orthopedic Surgery requirements, the PGY-1 of Orthopedic Surgery needs to be structured as follows:

Requirements for postgraduate year one.
Prior to July 1, 2000, a minimum of nine months during the PGY-1 must be based in clinical services other than orthopaedics. This requirement may be fulfilled by a year of accredited residency in any broad based program involving patient care.
Beginning on July 1, 2000, the residency program director should be responsible for the design, implementation, and oversight of the PGY-1. The PGY-1 must include:
a) A minimum of six months of structured education in surgery to include multisystem trauma, plastic surgery/burn care, intensive care, and vascular surgery.
b) A minimum of one month of structured education in at least three of the following-- emergency medicine, medical/cardiac intensive care, internal medicine, neurology, neurological surgery, rheumatology, anesthesiology, musculoskeletal imaging, and rehabilitation.
c) A maximum of three months of orthopaedic surgery.

 

[Doctor]

You're judging where you have no right to judge.

It seems as if you have a grudge on Carib MD grads? Whats the deal? As for closed..um, I currently work at the local hospital and I know two surgical residents who graduated from SJSM and Ross. So what are you talking about? Medical school proper is more profound in its instruction, despite its location. FYI, Hundreds of Carib MD graduates get residencies in the states every year; IM/ER/PEDS/SURG/DERM. Seems like you're the one who is misinformed. Go troll somewhere else.

What does a surgical residency have to do with anything? Lower-tier Gen Surg residencies aren't hard to come by. I said you can't do Cardiology, Allergy, or Gastro from the Carib because they only take fellows from top IM residencies, which don't take Carib students, and sometimes not even DO students. Do you disagree? And don't think because you are a med student (in the Carib, no less) that you have more of a right to seek or find this information than I do. Simply go to the Cards, Allergy, and Gastro sections of this site as I have and learn from those who have the first-hand knowledge.

 

[cool_vkb]

FYI, Hundreds of Carib MD graduates get residencies in the states every year; IM/ER/PEDS/SURG/DERM.

IMGs matching in derm,ER,gen surg that too in hundreds. You are making it sound so easy and so possible. I am not gonna waste both of our time by arguing over this topic because neither you will accept that is the truth nor i will buy your false beliefs.your statement exactly echoes what these suspicious medical schools put on their websites. its like you copy-paste it. they are all hoax. While there are some good carib medical schools but their name is also being damaged because of these newly popped up medical schools on smaller islands.

 

[EuroPhysician]

Its hard to get a license in the US unless you went to one of the big 4 Caribbean programs such as SGU, AUC, Ross, and Saba.

 

[Feli]

... how is requiring a 2.75 GPA (those schools don't require a 3.0, sorry) with no MCAT necessary more competitive than Podiatry? If you are trying to say that Carib MD schools are more competitive than DPM schools, you are quite misinformed.

Its hard to get a license in the US unless you went to one of the big 4 Caribbean programs such as SGU, AUC, Ross, and Saba.

These are the sad truth from everything I've heard and seen.^

I discourage pre-meds from Carib schools if they ask me about them. I hinted at it above, but all you need to get in most is an undergrad degree and passing a credit check. As I said, they take some pod flunk outs and many other marginal students who will pay the $$$ to roll the dice. One of our deans used to be on faculty at a Carib school but found it too frustrating because a fair % of the students didn't even pass boards or get a US residency. That is not even to mention that the clinical rotations for Carib med students are usually at the malignant inner city county hospitals. The grads who did match or scramble for a US PG spot got mostly FP, IM, ER, or peds like all Carib schools; very few FMGs who want anything aside from primary care will end up with their field and PG training of choice.

I admittely haven't done a ton of research since I was quite happy with a DPM program, but, being in Miami and at a school with a ton of pre-meds doing the MS program, a lot of those students consider DO, Carib, and other allied health programs if they're borderline or a bit under US MD school stats. Go to other forums and read from the source. The Carib programs aren't very selective, they're very expensive, and they have HIGH attrition rates. Even assuming you make it to the USMLE pt1 there, the board pass rates and residency placements are not ideal. As I hinted, there's a reason a lot of US student loan companies cut loans to most Carib MD schools. That should be a big red flag.

I'd choose pod 100 times over if I was pre-med again, but if it ended up DO program vs any Carib MD program, DO would be the easy choice. JMO...

 

[cool_vkb]

I'd choose pod 100 times over if I was pre-med again, but if it ended up DO program vs any Carib MD program, DO would be the easy choice. JMO...

Not only DO is an easy choice. But DO is THE CHOICE. Only a fool will leave DO and go to Carib MD school. and i know there are many fools who for some reason or lack of knowledge went to Carib even though they had stats for DO school. and now when they know abt DO. they put their hands on head with frustration of how come they missed such a golden oppurtunity.

DO is same as an MD. many showy MDs might argue or feel uncomfortable but thats the plain truth. I dont know why people even ask the question of whether to choose Carib MD or DO? its an insult to US Osteopathy schools if someone is comparing them to those Non-LCME regulated Carribean schools.