Is shadowing needed? (weird situation with clinical research)

[Torix473]

Hello everyone.

So I am trying to figure out if shadowing and clinical volunteering is necessary for me. I have been involved first as a volunteer and then as staff for 2.5 years at my university hospital in clinical research. My job has taken me into neuro ORs, lots of ortho ORs, burns, interventional cardio/EP lab, ICU/CC, and anesthesiology (my dept).

My question is, do I need to do yet more shadowing? Would letters of rec (LOR) from my department's (anesthesiology) chair and one of the people I frequently work with (from cardio/transplant anesthesiology), be enough to cover the recommendation letter most people ask for from whoever they are shadowing? Do med schools want more LORs than that/from more fields?

Same question for clinical volunteering.. It seems kind of repetitive if I have volunteered in a clinical setting for over a year for research, to go and take a much lower position at a traditional volunteering place (free clinic, red cross, etc) where I would have far less patient interaction.
(Talking about clinical volunteering part - I know I still need regular/non-clinical volunteering).

Just wondering what everyone thinks.

Thank you!

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[WedgeDawg]

1. Yes, you still need shadowing where the primary (and really only) purpose of you being there is to see what physicians do on a day-to-day basis.

2. You do not need a letter of rec from physicians that you shadow except for a school or two that require it.

3. There's some gray area here, but clinical research volunteer generally is not equivalent to clinical volunteering in terms of necessity. I think your app would benefit from doing some sort of real clinical volunteering where your primary goal is to help patients and not gather data. The "level" of the position doesn't really matter.

 

[narvik2016]

I definitely agree with @WedgeDawg ... and I am someone who has a lot of experience in clinical research working with patients, doctors, physical therapists, etc. At one point, I felt like this was enough... but I have since done some regular shadowing and hospital volunteering and both experiences really gave me a different perspective, especially the shadowing. Working with physicians and doing other tasks during your interactions is really different than what you gain from shadowing, and honestly I loved it.

Side note... even if you feel like you have this experience already, I would argue that yes, you probably still want both for your application.

 

[LizzyM]

As you have mentioned, @Torix473, you do need some non-clinical volunteering to get some face-to-face interaction with people in need to whom you can provide some service.

I do not believe that you need to volunteer in a clinical setting but I do think that you would benefit from shadowing in a primary care setting such as a clinic or physician's office. Look for something in general pediatrics, general internal medicine or family medicine. The idea would be to see routine patient care in an office setting which is very different from what you have been doing and will broaden your perspective on medicine.

 

[123456123456]

IMO I think it would be good to shadow for 20 hours minimum, 50 hours would be optimal. I would try to shadow specialties you have not had exposure with at work like a pediatrician or primary care doc or hospitalist or something (you could still use the other docs as your LOR though). I have a ton of clinical experience working as a scribe and volunteering and stuff but during one of my closed file interviews, the first thing they wanted to know was about shadowing specifically.

I also think volunteering would be beneficial to your app like at a hospital or free health clinic for a few hrs per week or every other week. I volunteered at a local fire dept. and went on emergency calls which was fun and interesting and easy to rack up hours. Especially if you spent the night occasionally or something. The more hours the better but aim for 100 at an absolute minimum if you are strapped for time. Personally, I would at least aim for 200

 

[Law2Doc]

Anything that has the word "research" attached to it is not going to be viewed as adequate clinical exposure, regardless of how good an exposure it actually is. Places want you to go outside the role of researcher for them to put the experience into the different pile. We all know it's easy to follow your PI through the hospital for 10 minutes, here and there and spin it as shadowing/clinical experience. So yes you need to volunteer/shadow separate and in addition to this.

And it's not just to dot the i's and cross the t's. You should want to do this to see if you even like it. being part of a clinical research project won't tell you this.

 

[Goro]

Can you answer these questions, based upon your experience:

1) Can you demonstrate that you know what a doctor's day is like, and how different doctors approach the practice of Medicine?
2) Can you demonstrate that you actually want to be around sick and injured people and their families, for the next 40 years?
3) Can you demonstrate that you know what you are getting into?
4) Can you demonstrate that you want to be a doctor, as opposed to a researcher?

Hello everyone.

So I am trying to figure out if shadowing and clinical volunteering is necessary for me. I have been involved first as a volunteer and then as staff for 2.5 years at my university hospital in clinical research. My job has taken me into neuro ORs, lots of ortho ORs, burns, interventional cardio/EP lab, ICU/CC, and anesthesiology (my dept).

My question is, do I need to do yet more shadowing? Would letters of rec (LOR) from my department's (anesthesiology) chair and one of the people I frequently work with (from cardio/transplant anesthesiology), be enough to cover the recommendation letter most people ask for from whoever they are shadowing? Do med schools want more LORs than that/from more fields?

Same question for clinical volunteering.. It seems kind of repetitive if I have volunteered in a clinical setting for over a year for research, to go and take a much lower position at a traditional volunteering place (free clinic, red cross, etc) where I would have far less patient interaction.
(Talking about clinical volunteering part - I know I still need regular/non-clinical volunteering).

Just wondering what everyone thinks.

Thank you!

I am SO saving this!!! And moderators, please sticky!!

Anything that has the word "research" attached to it is not going to be viewed as adequate clinical exposure, regardless of how good an exposure it actually is. Places want you to go outside the role of researcher for them to put the experience into the different pile. We all know it's easy to follow your PI through the hospital for 10 minutes, here and there and spin it as shadowing/clinical experience. So yes you need to volunteer/shadow separate and in addition to this.

And it's not just to dot the i's and cross the t's. You should want to do this to see if you even like it. being part of a clinical research project won't tell you this.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

Hello everyone.

So I am trying to figure out if shadowing and clinical volunteering is necessary for me. I have been involved first as a volunteer and then as staff for 2.5 years at my university hospital in clinical research. My job has taken me into neuro ORs, lots of ortho ORs, burns, interventional cardio/EP lab, ICU/CC, and anesthesiology (my dept).

My question is, do I need to do yet more shadowing? Would letters of rec (LOR) from my department's (anesthesiology) chair and one of the people I frequently work with (from cardio/transplant anesthesiology), be enough to cover the recommendation letter most people ask for from whoever they are shadowing? Do med schools want more LORs than that/from more fields?

Same question for clinical volunteering.. It seems kind of repetitive if I have volunteered in a clinical setting for over a year for research, to go and take a much lower position at a traditional volunteering place (free clinic, red cross, etc) where I would have far less patient interaction.
(Talking about clinical volunteering part - I know I still need regular/non-clinical volunteering).

Just wondering what everyone thinks.

Thank you!

You are in the same boat as my roommate. He is a clinical trails coordinator and is in regular contact with physicians all day. The bottom line is, you need to try to get one of the MDs to write you a strong letter. If your volunteering work allows you to make a strong enough connection for this, then great. If not, consider doing some shadowing and network with doctors that way.

 

[Law2Doc]

You are in the same boat as my roommate. He is a clinical trails coordinator and is in regular contact with physicians all day. The bottom line is, you need to try to get one of the MDs to write you a strong letter. If your volunteering work allows you to make a strong enough connection for this, then great. If not, consider doing some shadowing and network with doctors that way.

Nah, it has virtually nothing to do with an LOR. You can certainly get those through research. Clinical exposure (shadowing/volunteering) is important to see if you even like medicine regardless of whether a letter is forthcoming.