Is radiology going down?

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Boy I've opened a can of worms with this one. Here's the deal:p

I don't think it's a can of worms as opposed to just being downright rude.

Diagnostic radiology is right now the PREMIER non-procedure gig in all of medicine and surgery. Period. Highest ROI by far. Higher than even IR. BUT the difference is that despite what many med students and clinicians and lay people thing, diagnostic radiology is NOT EASY. This is not me being pompous -- it is the truth... you only think it's easy because all you see are negative CXR's and the very obvious positive findings after the radiologist reports them. And your informal curbside interpretations before the rad gives his are fine and maybe right sometimes, but the difference is like walking across a 6 foot two-by-four on the ground vs. walking across a 6 foot two-by-four suspended between two skyscapers. Catch my drift? Anyway that alone prevents clinicians from being able to render their own formal reports and get paid for them.

I agree with your basic assumptions with economics re: the specialty but aside from your saying that diagnostic radiology is not easy... isn't that the reason why we have specialties to begin with?

No, I don't think you are being pompous in that statement but it is far from a profound comment - if you spend more time doing one thing, you get better at doing it. Clinicians don't render their own report because it is inefficient- that's not what they are trained to do. If given enough time, they can do it. If given the training, you could do it.

All specialties have their nuances and difficulties in them that people outside do not appreciate. No need to belittle other people to raise your own self-esteem.

I am sure that 90% of medical students could do any specialty in medicine that exists when given that residency - we all know it's just the competition to get into a residency that is the hurdle.

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It truly amazes me how naive and uninformed you med studs are. No offense -- most MS's are. I wasn't but that's b/c I am a compulsive data and facts gatherer.

Radiology is and will continue to be the PREMIER gig in all of medicine and surgery. I am in my last year of training and am getting inundated with offers from all over the country. I can work from home via telerad, I can work in a metropolis, I can do PP or academics, I can work out in BFE. I can work as much or as little as I want. I can do procedures and have patient contact if I want (personally I'd rather bang my head against a brick wall). If I want to work a little harder than most and am o.k. with living in the boonies for a year or two, I can make 1 mill+/year. These are the facts.

No other field in medicine or surgery affords this degree of geographic and temoporal flexibility. I would venture to say that 80% of physicians in other fields who are 5 or more years out of residency, if you could really get inside their heads to know the truth, would give their left arms to go back and do radiology instead.

Future? The sky is definitely not falling. Technology constantly moves forward -- and the specialty of radiology moves in lock-step with it. Imaging volume and demand is continuously increasing. Pretty soon triple rule-out CT scans will be ordered like CXRs in every ER in the country. Gone are the days of the physical exam. You can fiddle around sticking your fingers where the sun don't shine and rubbing the patient's belly for 30 minutes, or we can scan the sucker in 1 minute and in another 2 I can tell you exactly what's wrong with him.

These are the facts friends. You can either be yet another mediocre doctor, or you can be a bada$$ radiologist. Good luck to you.


or i can be the type of doctor that significantly improves the quality of lives of my patients and actually help people. enjoy whatever you have while it lasts. when healthcare cuts need to be made, imaging is the first field to go. radiologists don't have patients and therefore they have no political power in the hospital or public arena. inventing new technologies won't protect you for long. good luck getting insurance companies to actually pay out on these wonderful technologies. and if and when they do, other doctors will be right here to steal them and bill for them. and nothing will ever be done to stop them because he who controls the patient controls where and what type of workup they receive.

oh, and one more thing, any specialist can usually read his own films. a neurosurgeon can make important calls by himself. an ent can do his own films. any surgeon can read significant findings on trauma images. GIs can read their own ERCPs. orthos can find their own fractures. radiologists are really there for primary care doctors.

sorry to be nasty but this fool can't write crap like this and let impressionable medical students read this. radiology is the best field in all of medicine if 1) you actually love the nature of your work and 2) if you're ego isn't bothered by the fact that you don't directly help people and specialists think nothing of you.
 
or i can be the type of doctor that significantly improves the quality of lives of my patients and actually help people. enjoy whatever you have while it lasts. when healthcare cuts need to be made, imaging is the first field to go. radiologists don't have patients and therefore they have no political power in the hospital or public arena. inventing new technologies won't protect you for long. good luck getting insurance companies to actually pay out on these wonderful technologies. and if and when they do, other doctors will be right here to steal them and bill for them. and nothing will ever be done to stop them because he who controls the patient controls where and what type of workup they receive.

oh, and one more thing, any specialist can usually read his own films. a neurosurgeon can make important calls by himself. an ent can do his own films. any surgeon can read significant findings on trauma images. GIs can read their own ERCPs. orthos can find their own fractures. radiologists are really there for primary care doctors.

sorry to be nasty but this fool can't write crap like this and let impressionable medical students read this. radiology is the best field in all of medicine if 1) you actually love the nature of your work and 2) if you're ego isn't bothered by the fact that you don't directly help people and specialists think nothing of you.


Wow that post was pretty dickish.
Sorry to tell you man, but specialists do rely on radiologists. Just did a rad elective and countless surgeons, GI docs, orthopods, came down to talk with the radiologist about the pathology.
Yes there are imaging cuts, but what about all the talk of specialty surgery/cardio cuts. They are expected to be pretty bad. Reducing hospital stays for hip replacements...moving hand surgeries to outpatient. Tighter restrictions on requirements of stenting (we all know cardiologists are stent happy). Basically, no healthcare field is immune to cuts. Rads is in a better position because of the volume it can do. You can't just add 4 more surgeries to your schedule to increase you reimbursement. Also, imaging cuts also works somewhat in rads favor. They get rid of all these cards or GI that try to start there own self-referral imaging which is unethical. There will still be large groups that do this, but smaller 2 man operations wont have the capital.
Rads is in a good position, regardless for litigation or expertise issues, you need a US rad sign off. That's not going away whether or not you think the radiologist knows sh@t and is only there for a sign off.

Good luck rounding all day!!! :laugh:
 
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look i was interested in rads at one time so i appreciate the field. obviously specialists need radiologists. it was mere hyperbole to mirror the OPs equal hyperbole about how great everything in his field is (notice he never once mentions how much he enjoys his actual job). my problem with this is that is exactly the kind of writing that impresses upon medical students. and the problem with this is that its mostly false.
 
look i was interested in rads at one time so i appreciate the field. obviously specialists need radiologists. it was mere hyperbole to mirror the OPs equal hyperbole about how great everything in his field is (notice he never once mentions how much he enjoys his actual job). my problem with this is that is exactly the kind of writing that impresses upon medical students. and the problem with this is that its mostly false.

So, in your view, if you see something posted on a thread that you think is false and/or destructive to medicine, you have to post something that you know is equally false garbage to oppose that?? With those reasoning and problem resolution skills, you are going to make a great physician.

What bothered me is not that you had posted earlier that specialists don't need radiologists (which you have since taken back), but that you said radiologists don't help patients.

For first and second year med students out there - just because radiologists don't shake a patient's hand, doesn't mean they don't help patients. Aside from the obvious fact that the correct diagnosis is required for the correct treatment, and radiologists play a crucial role in diagnosis, there are a myriad of other ways radiologist can help patients without actually laying hands on them. One example - I've seen a surgical procedure cancelled due to an astute ragiologist who picked up a group of findings that suggested high likelihood for a complication, effectively preventing a failed procedure with a serious complication.

But if it's comforting to you to tell yourself that you will help patients and radiogists don't, go right ahead. If that's necessary to validate your decision to become a physician, I actually pity you.
 
once again, i understand well that radiologists do help people indirectly. all this time we're talking about diagnostic radiologists btw. the hospital can't function without radiology. radiology is the core of the hospital.

all i am/was trying to say is that the OP paints this amazing rosy picture that's not completely accurate. it may be accurate now but in the future i highly doubt it.

the question is, is radiology going down? no one can predict the future but one thing for sure is radiology is becoming less competitive every year, with its heyday like 4-5 years ago. why is that? i know a girl who failed her medicine rotation and an average step 1 with 14 interviews. radiology is no longer some exclusive secret.

i'm sorry if i rained on your parade but there are negatives to radiology. if its not your true passion, you'll be miserable. imaging is the easiest thing to cut when cuts need to be made. radiology has no political power in the hospital or in the government to protect their interests. new, easier technologists only make it easier for non-technologists to steal because they own their patients and hence where they get their work up. and lastly, there's no satisfaction of helping people directly. nothing i said here is inaccurate.
 
once again, i understand well that radiologists do help people indirectly. all this time we're talking about diagnostic radiologists btw. the hospital can't function without radiology. radiology is the core of the hospital.

all i am/was trying to say is that the OP paints this amazing rosy picture that's not completely accurate. it may be accurate now but in the future i highly doubt it.

the question is, is radiology going down? no one can predict the future but one thing for sure is radiology is becoming less competitive every year, with its heyday like 4-5 years ago. why is that? i know a girl who failed her medicine rotation and an average step 1 with 14 interviews. radiology is no longer some exclusive secret.

i'm sorry if i rained on your parade but there are negatives to radiology. if its not your true passion, you'll be miserable. imaging is the easiest thing to cut when cuts need to be made. radiology has no political power in the hospital or in the government to protect their interests. new, easier technologists only make it easier for non-technologists to steal because they own their patients and hence where they get their work up. and lastly, there's no satisfaction of helping people directly. nothing i said here is inaccurate.

That's interesting that you knew someone who got that many interviews with those stats. If you look at NRMP the stats for Radiology have become more competitive since 2005. The avg Step 1 went up from 232 i believe back then to now 235. Ortho is 234. So i dunno if you're really that accurate. Maybe that girl's father's some bigtime doc or administrator or something. The lowest Step 1 at my school's rad program last yr was 236 (right from residency director). So....I agree it's not exclusive club like Derm is ... but that was 6-7 yrs ago when Rad was exclusive. Since then the competition went down but is still tight and has gone up since '05. Ppl think mainly due to Anesthesia's popularity in recent yrs, fields like Rad aren't at Derm's level anymore.
 
but one thing for sure is radiology is becoming less competitive every year, with its heyday like 4-5 years ago. why is that?

Because medstudents are like chicken that run from one end of the coop to the other based on a prediction where the feed is going to be thrown in.

I am out of the academic world for a while now, but I'll be just fine if rads residents are again the mix of 'ex-insertspecialtyhere' and more laid back types they used to be (not those entitled self-indulged little brats attracted to the field for the past couple of years).
 
once again, i understand well that radiologists do help people indirectly. all this time we're talking about diagnostic radiologists btw. the hospital can't function without radiology. radiology is the core of the hospital.

all i am/was trying to say is that the OP paints this amazing rosy picture that's not completely accurate. it may be accurate now but in the future i highly doubt it.

the question is, is radiology going down? no one can predict the future but one thing for sure is radiology is becoming less competitive every year, with its heyday like 4-5 years ago. why is that? i know a girl who failed her medicine rotation and an average step 1 with 14 interviews. radiology is no longer some exclusive secret.

i'm sorry if i rained on your parade but there are negatives to radiology. if its not your true passion, you'll be miserable. imaging is the easiest thing to cut when cuts need to be made. radiology has no political power in the hospital or in the government to protect their interests. new, easier technologists only make it easier for non-technologists to steal because they own their patients and hence where they get their work up. and lastly, there's no satisfaction of helping people directly. nothing i said here is inaccurate.

http://www.asipp.org/documents/cms1385p.pdf
Just wanted to post this document on Medicare payments for 2008. Now I'm not the expert on these things but on page 94-95 you'll find a graph which lists the combined % cuts of different specialties. You'll see all of them are about equal with only anesthesia having a combined 4% increase next yr. Also table 26 on pg 95 has the proposed reimbursement for selected procedures. Again you'll see a whole slew of surgeries and cardiac stenting being proposed for the largest % cut. There are some imaging as well. In other words, there are cuts across the board not just radiology being targeted. There is a small >30K member organization called the ACR that lobbies btw. Also, looks like anesthesia lobbying is doing well...:thumbup:
 
. Now I'm not the expert on these things but on page 94-95 you'll find a graph which lists the combined % cuts of different specialties. :thumbup:

Oh sweet, the classic governmental response to Medicare.

"Crap, medical care is getting expensive. Let's pay healthcare providers less and all of the structural problems in the health-care system will go away."
 
Oh sweet, the classic governmental response to Medicare.

"Crap, medical care is getting expensive. Let's pay healthcare providers less and all of the structural problems in the health-care system will go away."

There aren't many presidential candidates who would know how to fix it. Except maybe Dr. Ron Paul.
 
http://www.asipp.org/documents/cms1385p.pdf
Just wanted to post this document on Medicare payments for 2008. Now I'm not the expert on these things but on page 94-95 you'll find a graph which lists the combined % cuts of different specialties. You'll see all of them are about equal with only anesthesia having a combined 4% increase next yr. Also table 26 on pg 95 has the proposed reimbursement for selected procedures. Again you'll see a whole slew of surgeries and cardiac stenting being proposed for the largest % cut. There are some imaging as well. In other words, there are cuts across the board not just radiology being targeted. There is a small >30K member organization called the ACR that lobbies btw. Also, looks like anesthesia lobbying is doing well...:thumbup:

this document shows internists down 11%, nurse anesthetists up 12%. wow.
 
this document shows internists down 11%, nurse anesthetists up 12%. wow.

WTF!!!! I just saw that after you mentioned it. I'm telling you, nurse organizations know how to FRIGGIN scream and yell when it comes to lobbying. :eek:
I'm so friggin pissed right now...you dont even know
 
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I just think it is completely unfair to thrash other specialties and not give them support considering the level of teamwork necessary in health care.
For sure -- one of the best things I heard from an attending radiologist was that radiologists should try to make the clinicians they work with happy and help them as much as they can, because in the end the clinicians are the radiologists' "customers" in almost all settings. Likewise, I think clinicians who treat radiologists as consultants and not as techs (in the "I place an order and it's your job to carry it out and do what I tell you" sense) get more out of the imaging they are ordering because radiologists train to know a lot about disease and the natural history of disease processes.

Medicine is entirely too complex NOT to be highly collaborative -- anybody who thinks otherwise is a twit. :)
 
yeah.. but who would want to live in OH ???
 
To quote a previous post: "Greatest...thread....ever!" I agree. I have loved reading it. Granted, the posts are hyperbolic, but why is this such a hot button issue? The fact is rads and many other specialities will change and change significantly sooner rather than later. We don't know how, but we all know why: Medicare is busting at the seam. Uninsured population is growing. EBM and cost containment are here to stay. This milieu is perfect for physicians to start eating each other. Perhaps the question we are really debating by proxy is "Is medicing going down?" In a world of cost-containment where profits are being eaten by pharmaceutical and insurance companies, the answer is YES.

Will rads win out among the specialties? A question that the government and insurance companies love to know is being debated among physicians because consolidation of physician services means less money to physicians. Who controls healthcare in this country? The answer is the government. Who controls the government? Not physicians. Pharmaceutical and insurance companies do because they have the powerful lobbies. The AMA is extremely weak comparatively. Why? Because physicians are too busy fighting each other for turf instead of collectively protecting the turf we have today. Do you think government is about to legislate caps on insurance or pharmaceutical executive salaries? I don't, but please prove me wrong! Certainly, there is a proper place for competition among the specialties. It is healthy, and it drives medical advances, but shouldn't we cool it in the short term for the sake of all physicians?

Here's a more fundamental question: Why did we choose to go to medical school? Of course there are infinite variations on a common theme of helping sick people. But I think we would all agree that it SEEMED to be a way to make a comfortable living without a huge amount of risk. Follow a difficult, yet well-trodden path, and you will have a medical license and can start billing for services. However, being a physician is becoming more and more risky, and that is causing a lot of consternation and turf battles. We need to recognize this and address it as a profession.

Finally, if you are thinking about going to medical school to make a lot of money, go to business school and become an insurance or pharmaceutical exec. instead. A lot more risky, but you will certainly make a LOT more money
 
awesome post...
 
Radiology is going down -- for naive individuals such as Apache Indian the so called "money machine" who will be asking himself why he didn't think of another specialty in a few years. There are several several commercials on TV on a daily basis, advertising outsourcing from other countries, for significantly less money, than is charged in the US.
You don't wanted to be stuck respecializing, because you cannot get your career on track. Radiologists will see significantly less income within the next few years.
You will have significant difficulties finding a job in Radiology anywhere in the US.
Outsourcing is already a big hit in several institutions, just that it has not taken off yet.

he Need for Outsourcing Radiology

By Ashutosh Shelat
Today there is growing demand for the limited supply of radiologists in the US, the UK, and other developed nations. Due to these demands and the rising use of technology, radiology is being outsourced to several developing nations such as India and China. This is a response to two concurrent major predicaments: the need for early diagnosis of diseases through radiology, and a bottleneck in providing medical care due to delays in performing radiological procedures [1].
According to radiologist Dr. Piyush Vyas [2], the reduced workload on the US has led to decreasing job security and less demand for radiologists. However, abroad, increased demand for services provides developing nations with more information and new opportunities for growth in the medical field. Outsourcing as a whole will help develop the economies of these nations, Vyas says, while encouraging growth of infrastructure and promoting peaceful relations with other nations that consume their goods and services, such as the US.
Radiology is a discipline of medical science that uses electromagnetic radiation and ultrasonics for the diagnosis and treatment of injury or disease. Ionizing radiation consisting of alpha, beta, gamma, or x-rays is the principal source of evaluation based on radiology. In essence, the radiation ray passes through the part of body being examined and then produces a static image on a film. Also, dynamic images as taken by fluoroscopy or cineradiography help record movement in internal organs or in blood vessels [3]. Indeed, many new uses for radiology are expanding the medical fields.
Evidence seems to show that outsourcing radiology is a needed solution to our problem in America.
The benefits of outsourcing are easily viewed in surrounding and developing countries. Specifically, when we talk about radiology in these distant nations we must understand that only teleradiology, or radiology data that can be transmitted using radiographic images and consultant text from one location to another, can be discussed. However, since most radiology can be modified to fit this format we worry less about the technical terms and more about the consequences of this radiology.
When radiology is transmitted to other countries, it has very many positive and productive effects. One benefit, concerning the outsourcing of anything from one industrially developed country to another less developed nation is the cost reduction factor. With decreased costs in nations such as India and China, the Western consumer gets a "better bang for the buck," and ultimately will, in fact, return the demand and supply shortage back to equilibrium with increased quantity supplied and decreased costs. Outsourcing also helps increase productivity, create jobs, and fund improved living conditions, over the long-term in such growing nations. One example concerns the improved aspects of Indian healthcare due outsourcing radiology work to India. These include weekend and nighttime coverage for all patients, enhanced patient outcomes, and workflow. The Indian Clinical Lab focusing on teleradiology also is able to more deeply address those cases which require intensive team interaction [4]. As is evident, there are several obvious motivations for outsourcing radiology for the welfare of the general public.
However, a more important reason to outsource concerns those individuals who are unable to pay high medical bills, or who are suffering poorer radiological care because of the bottleneck in providing services to patients. For example, consider the UK, where there is a shortage of approximately 5000 radiologists. Because of this shortage, there is an average waiting period of approximately two months for radiology diagnostics. Also because of this shortage, medical practitioners are dealing with the current shortage by still employing equipment of which 30% is out-of-date [4].
Outsourced radiology is a needed tool in the technological revolution of this age to keep pace with the ever-increasing number of patients and outpatients. It also contributes to a variety of developments in other countries and helps take pressure off the doctors in countries like the US and UK. With an increasing use of teleradiology and other multinational health fronts, hopefully the general health and health awareness of the public will dramatically increase.
Sources
  1. Scan delays 'put patients at risk'. BBC News, World Edition [online]. August 8, 2002. Available at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2178277.stm. Accessed December 5, 2004.
  2. Vyas, Piyush. Radiologist. Personal Communication. November 2004.
  3. Radiological Society of North America, 2004, Oakbrook, IL. Available at: www.RSNA.org. Accessed November 2004.
  4. Outsourcing Radiology. Outsource2India. Available at: http://www.outsource2india.com/services/radiology.asp. Accessed November 2004.
  5. Folland, Goodman, and Stano. The Economics of Health and Health Care. 3 rd Edition. Upper Saddle River, New Jersey: Prentice Hall; 2001.
Copyright © 2002-2006 JPHAS at the University of Illinois at Chicago. All rights reserved.
 
Yep, you got that right. I'll call Sandeep or Xu right over to perform the breast biopsies I did today or discuss the ups and downs of chemo-embolization and RFA with the patient I sat down with this afternoon.

:beat:
 
ah I see your gripe. No I think that procedural sort of work in Rads will be spread out amongst different specialties. How much demand will there be for that in the future from a Radiologist? Not much and that is for sure. With Pathologists, Cardiologists, Surgeons, and Primary Care taking care of patients, what in the world will be the role of the Radiologist? Absolutely nothing in my opinion. More than 5 years out of medical school wasted, with looming debt from medical school, not to mention trying to make a living.
In retrospect, your racism in retaliation to the truth, is further evidence of this rapidly dissipating field. Your frustration will only make you more weak lol.... ha ha ha

Rads is a thing of the past, and it is about time. :thumbup:
 
you're an idiot on so many levels. It's clear you are jealous of radiologists. Interventional radiology is now concentrating on cancer treatments. I would know, as my mom needed a biopsy and I talked to the IR who performed the procedure. Furthermore, you're ignorant. Yes there is telerads, but the final reading is done by a US based radiologist. You're a jealous cardiologist. Go away, you're pissed off cause your angioplasties reimbursement have beent cut. Now, you're looking for something else to steal from radiologists. Unlike cardiology, IR continually reinvents itself. lol, I love all the hate towards rads. I'm an undergrad and am more knowledgable about the field than you are. The funny this is I want to be an interventional cardiologist. However, your post just bothers me. Turf wars are bad, physicians need to unite. Cardiologists are universially hated for this very reason. They fight with IR, vascular surgeons, cv surgeons, noticing a trend here? now the latest turf war is coronary scanning and who gets to read the scan. go away, you're spam and flame isn't wanted.
 
Whats your problem? zero rads interviews? Bwaaahhhhhh...... ':('

Trying to rationalize a career in your back-up specialty? Do what ever you must to feel better. There are those who are radiologists, and those who wish they were radiologists.
:smuggrin::laugh::smuggrin::laugh:
 
There are several several commercials on TV on a daily basis, advertising outsourcing from other countries, for significantly less money, than is charged in the US.

You mean to say some channel is airing TV commercials and a daily basis about outsourcing Radiology? I don't know what you are talking about. Why would any company air a commercial about outsourcing radiology, when most of the general public has no idea what a radiologist does?
I think you are full of bukwas. Let me be the first to call Bullsh--. I place the burden on you to show the links to these alleged commercials. I bet you can't.

Do you seriously mean to say that you you rely on commericals to keep you informed?!? Do you seriously expect the readers of this forum to believe the claims of an infomercial (if it even exists?) Does anyone take infomercials seriously? Does Enzyte work for you? Did you pay $29.95 plus shipping and handling to be privy of "the medical secrets doctors dont want you to know about!!!". Why did you bother with a career in medicine when you can 'make thousand of dollars from home?'

If you want to cite things from the media, how about addressing the news stories that have brought to light the lack of quality control and public safety hazard of goods from certain third world countries?

If you cant trust the safety of dog food from offshore, why would you trust your films to be read in the same manner?
 
you're an idiot on so many levels. It's clear you are jealous of radiologists. Interventional radiology is now concentrating on cancer treatments. I would know, as my mom needed a biopsy and I talked to the IR who performed the procedure. Furthermore, you're ignorant. Yes there is telerads, but the final reading is done by a US based radiologist. You're a jealous cardiologist. Go away, you're pissed off cause your angioplasties reimbursement have beent cut. Now, you're looking for something else to steal from radiologists. Unlike cardiology, IR continually reinvents itself. lol, I love all the hate towards rads. I'm an undergrad and am more knowledgable about the field than you are. The funny this is I want to be an interventional cardiologist. However, your post just bothers me. Turf wars are bad, physicians need to unite. Cardiologists are universially hated for this very reason. They fight with IR, vascular surgeons, cv surgeons, noticing a trend here? now the latest turf war is coronary scanning and who gets to read the scan. go away, you're spam and flame isn't wanted.

mr. Premed, please focus on the MCAT and your undergraduate studies you *****. You don't even know yet if you will ever even BECOME a doctor. You obviously don't know jack about jackkkkk -- I think that you need to focus more on getting into medical school in the first place, and your social skills and manners.
I have read no evidence contrary to my facts presented, therefore, I know that I am correct.
Rads interviews??? that is just SICK. I do not understand how anyone would throw away five years of their lives.
It is a well known FACT that Radiology is the field in medicine with the least amount of job opportunity. You cannot work wherever you want to, this field is a field of the past.
I cannot read any facts here. Only a dumb undergraduate student ranting and raving, all bark and no bite lol.
I am telling you guys, already there exists tremendous hatred and jealousy amongst Radiologists and other specialties, out of growing realization, that "hey, anybody can do this"
Now there is NeuroRadiology, and that is a NEUROLOGY subspecialty. Who needs a Radiologist to read those films, when already they are stressed out to the max, reading Trauma films and so on and so forth.
I would not want the watered down approach, a scan read by a Radiologist, I would rather have a head CT read by a Neurologist.
It is just common sense.
 
trollometer9.jpg
 
mr. Premed, please focus on the MCAT and your undergraduate studies you *****. You don't even know yet if you will ever even BECOME a doctor. You obviously don't know jack about jackkkkk -- I think that you need to focus more on getting into medical school in the first place, and your social skills and manners.
I have read no evidence contrary to my facts presented, therefore, I know that I am correct.
Rads interviews??? that is just SICK. I do not understand how anyone would throw away five years of their lives.
It is a well known FACT that Radiology is the field in medicine with the least amount of job opportunity. You cannot work wherever you want to, this field is a field of the past.
I cannot read any facts here. Only a dumb undergraduate student ranting and raving, all bark and no bite lol.
I am telling you guys, already there exists tremendous hatred and jealousy amongst Radiologists and other specialties, out of growing realization, that "hey, anybody can do this"
Now there is NeuroRadiology, and that is a NEUROLOGY subspecialty. Who needs a Radiologist to read those films, when already they are stressed out to the max, reading Trauma films and so on and so forth.
I would not want the watered down approach, a scan read by a Radiologist, I would rather have a head CT read by a Neurologist.
It is just common sense.

I'm not going into Rads and certainly don't claim to know much. But is this brotha full of hot air or what?

Rads has the LEAST amount of job opportunity? Rads is a waste of 5 years of your life? :laugh:

Rads is one of the BEST fields in medicine. Hands down. And this is coming from an eyeball junkie.
 
this coming from an Osteopath. Surely.
Yeah whatever.
I think that Rads is a waste of 5 years, then again it is my opinion, perhaps that is not shared with the few others here, who have just come to the realization that they have wasted five years possibly and truly.
Thus far no FACTS TO THE CONTRARY THAT I HAVE PRESENTED, ONLY HOT AIR and venting. This is truly wasteful in my opinion.
PROVE TO ME AND OTHERS OUT THERE THEN, that Radiology has a secure future financial incentive. Prove to me and others that outsourcing will not devastate the field of Radiology. Prove to me that Neuro Radiology is a Radiology sub specialty, and not a Neurology sub specialty.
You guys just cannot. Because I have presented FACTS. Facts do not lie do they?
 
this coming from an Osteopath. Surely.
Yeah whatever.
I think that Rads is a waste of 5 years, then again it is my opinion, perhaps that is not shared with the few others here, who have just come to the realization that they have wasted five years possibly and truly.
Thus far no FACTS TO THE CONTRARY THAT I HAVE PRESENTED, ONLY HOT AIR and venting. This is truly wasteful in my opinion.
PROVE TO ME AND OTHERS OUT THERE THEN, that Radiology has a secure future financial incentive. Prove to me and others that outsourcing will not devastate the field of Radiology. Prove to me that Neuro Radiology is a Radiology sub specialty, and not a Neurology sub specialty.
You guys just cannot. Because I have presented FACTS. Facts do not lie do they?

Yeeaaah, I think we should all just ignore you now.
 
this coming from an Osteopath. Surely.
Yeah whatever.
I think that Rads is a waste of 5 years, then again it is my opinion, perhaps that is not shared with the few others here, who have just come to the realization that they have wasted five years possibly and truly.
Thus far no FACTS TO THE CONTRARY THAT I HAVE PRESENTED, ONLY HOT AIR and venting. This is truly wasteful in my opinion.
PROVE TO ME AND OTHERS OUT THERE THEN, that Radiology has a secure future financial incentive. Prove to me and others that outsourcing will not devastate the field of Radiology. Prove to me that Neuro Radiology is a Radiology sub specialty, and not a Neurology sub specialty.
You guys just cannot. Because I have presented FACTS. Facts do not lie do they?

Guys, is there an e-smack button on SDN?
 
Now there is NeuroRadiology, and that is a NEUROLOGY subspecialty.

Its clear you have absolutely no clue about the field of radiology or neurology, let alone the field of medicine.

You are a fraud. You are clearly not a fellow, not a resident, perhaps not even a medical student.

mr. Premed, please focus on the MCAT and your undergraduate studies you *****. You don't even know yet if you will ever even BECOME a doctor. You obviously don't know jack about jackkkkk --

I cannot read any facts here. Only a dumb undergraduate student ranting and raving, all bark and no bite lol.

Thats the only reasonable thing you've said so far.
Why don't you take your own advice?
:smuggrin::thumbup:
 
sure Hans.... are you sure that your brain is not still on lockdown?
Check out the link buddy, Rads going out of business, this says NEURORADIOLOGY DEPARTMENT OF NEUROLOGY can you read, or should I explain it in a different language or context.

http://www.med.nyu.edu/neurology/training/neurorad/


What do you think Hans? Can you come up with undisputed facts such as myself, or continue with your personal insults? :sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:

oh I guarantee you that I am not a fraud, and know EXACTLY what I am talking about buddy. Continue to blow hot air and say absolutely nothing!
 
What do you think Hans? Can you come up with undisputed facts such as myself, or continue with your personal insults? :sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:

oh I guarantee you that I am not a fraud, and know EXACTLY what I am talking about buddy. Continue to blow hot air and say absolutely nothing!



Call any neuroradiology fellowship in the country and ask them if you can apply to be a fellow as a neurologist. See what kind of response you will get.

The link you cited is a unique program which medical students apply for that grants dual boards in neurology, radiology and integrates a neuroradiology fellowship. It is not open to neurology residents or radiology residents. It is adminstered by Dr. P. Kim Nelson, a radiologist.

Check out the link buddy, Rads going out of business, this says NEURORADIOLOGY DEPARTMENT OF NEUROLOGY can you read, or should I explain it in a different language or context.

Now let me give you a link from NYU:
http://www.med.nyu.edu/radiology_edu/fellowship/caq/neurofellowship.html

To borrow a few of your own words:
Check out the link buddy... this says NEURORADIOLOGY DEPARTMENT OF RADIOLOGY can you read, or should I explain it in a different language or context?

You have not given any of your credentials, thus you are unlikely to be what you say you are, namely a fellow. Furthermore, the claims you have said up to now concerning radiology and neuroradiology have been grossly misleading or outright fraudulent. That makes you a 'fraud'. If you find that characterization insulting, I would advise you to stop acting like a fraud.

QED.
1. Neuroradiology is a subspecialty of radiology.
2. You, sir, ARE a liar.
End of story.
 
Neuro radiology can be both, a Radiology sub specialty, or a Neurology sub specialty.
Soon, we will do away with Radiology as a sub specialty that can do Neuro Radiology.
Radiology is just a waste of time. This is one program, which entails that residents entering the program can ultimately be certified in both, Radiology and Neurology. I am sorry for you actually Hans, that you are so upset and angry by the truth, that Radiology is a field that is disappearing. Outsourcing will rapidly put Radiologists out of business. Sorry man.
Think about it, what is more important for society, a field where high school kids could probably be successful, such as Radiology (memorizing scans wow what true brain work); or a field that entails brains as well as detail and critical thinking, as well as CLINICAL JUDGEMENT, such as Neurology? I certainly would want to be part of a more secure field, that required thought processes as well as clinical judgement and management. I know of several that chased Radiology thinking that there was money. Soon not only will there be scant money, but there will be even scantier job opportunities for Radiologists.

Introduction
neurorad.jpg
NYU offers a seven-year Neurology/Radiology/Neuroradiology residency training program. This program is approved by the ACGME. The graduating resident is board eligible in Neurology (www.abpn.com), Radiology and Neuroradiology (www.theabr.com). The program begins a with customized internship year that includes four months of diagnostic radiology, six months of internal medicine, a month of pediatrics and a month of emergency medicine. The PGY-2 and PGY-3 years are spent training in adult neurology. In the final two years of the program, the resident learns diagnostic and interventional neuroradiology. Graduates are eligible to sit for dual Board Certification in Neurology and Radiology and Added Qualification Certification in Neuroradiology. Two positions per year. See also theDepartment of Radiology's Combined Training Program.
 
Yes, I'm a dumb premed student. Unlike most ignorant premeds, I like to be aware of the future of a field I'm going to give lots of time and effort. I laugh at how you skoff at me simply because I'm an undergraduate student. I'm on break, so yeah I think I have time to post. What did i say that was wrong? You're a cardiologist or atleast you claim to be. There isn't a more greedy specialty in medicine. Seems like someone is mad that their rad friends are making more money and having a life. You claim that rads are limited, go look at rad jobs online. yea, an undergrad can't be knowledgable about medicine, what a great conclusion. I simply stated you were wrong in your assertion that IR is dead. All you have to do is look at old threads and you'll this isn't the case.
 
Yes, I'm a dumb premed student. Unlike most ignorant premeds, I like to be aware of the future of a field I'm going to give lots of time and effort. I laugh at how you skoff at me simply because I'm an undergraduate student. I'm on break, so yeah I think I have time to post. What did i say that was wrong? You're a cardiologist or atleast you claim to be. There isn't a more greedy specialty in medicine. Seems like someone is mad that their rad friends are making more money and having a life. You claim that rads are limited, go look at rad jobs online. yea, an undergrad can't be knowledgable about medicine, what a great conclusion. I simply stated you were wrong in your assertion that IR is dead. All you have to do is look at old threads and you'll this isn't the case.


no no no no no no no no Rads does NOT make more than Interventional Cardiology or Electrophysiology, and I am not skoffing at your opinion.
Just that there is more to things internally, than what is perceived externally.
Sure on paper it seems lucrative, but really it will not be.
I don't feel that Cardiologists are greedy. :thumbdown:
IR isn't bad, don't get me wrong.
Just that people that are chasing Rads for money, will soon be disappointed.
Undergrad actually is the best place to be, other than high school; no work (well was in my case for the most part), just studying, partying, girls. That was the life for sure...... TRUST ME I envy you...
oh man...
Undergrad -- PreMed is actually one of the most critical times to be in as well; to find out what you want to do in Medicine, family goals, etc.
 
NYU offers a seven-year Neurology/Radiology/Neuroradiology residency training program. This program is approved by the ACGME. The graduating resident is board eligible in Neurology (www.abpn.com), Radiology and Neuroradiology

You might want to check with Dr Nelson how many residents they have graduated from the program so far.

:sleep:
 
:corny: *grabs some popcorn and waits for Apache to get back* :corny:


It could be a while. He's probably drunk on a beach somewhere or shacked up in a ski lodge on a 3 week vacation.
 
lol, Apache ha ha ha :laugh: king clown :hardy:
 
One thing that this idiot doesn't know is that more than half of the original combined Radiology/neurology/neuroradiology programs have since closed down, for many reasons but mainly because their residents switched over to radiology completely.
 
ok *****, so show me those stats BOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA:laugh:
 
What I took away from the combined program was the fact that you can apparently become a competent neurologist in 1 year (for the math challenged: the combined program is 1 year more than doing internship, rads residency and neurorad fellowship).
 
:corny: *grabs some popcorn and waits for Apache to get back* :corny:


It could be a while. He's probably drunk on a beach somewhere or shacked up in a ski lodge on a 3 week vacation.

Maybe they're the same person. He could be a troll poster with disassociative identity disorder.
 
oh my goodness, people are not accepting reality.
I do not understand it, I present FACTS and people cannot accept it. Griping and complaining, but not presenting anything to the contrary.
Lame and boring insults, but no FACTS.
It is obvious that I am correct. :idea:
 
sure Hans.... are you sure that your brain is not still on lockdown?
Check out the link buddy, Rads going out of business, this says NEURORADIOLOGY DEPARTMENT OF NEUROLOGY can you read, or should I explain it in a different language or context.

http://www.med.nyu.edu/neurology/training/neurorad/


What do you think Hans? Can you come up with undisputed facts such as myself, or continue with your personal insults? :sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:

oh I guarantee you that I am not a fraud, and know EXACTLY what I am talking about buddy. Continue to blow hot air and say absolutely nothing!

Im afraid you are mistaken about the NYU program.
http://www.med.nyu.edu/radiology_edu/residency/combinedneuroint.html
 
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