Is Optometry a good field to go into? Or bad?

[Antimonie]

I am a junior, getting my bachelor's as a Business and Technology Major (I am taking all the necessary pre-opt classes as well)

Since the start of my college career I have wanted to go into Optometry.
But now I am reading all of these negative responses about no jobs, high debt and general "dying out of the profession".

And here I want to ask you, dear SDN members, what do you think?

As a side note, I am not a money-hungry individual, but I would rather not spend four years of my life and hundreds of thousands of dollars only to realize that I could have just stayed with my bachelor's in Business and made as much money as an Optometrist.

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[Jason K]

As a side note, I am not a money-hungry individual, but I would rather not spend four years of my life and hundreds of thousands of dollars only to realize that I could have just stayed with my bachelor's in Business and made as much money as an Optometrist.

Spend some time reading the threads on this board - you'll either read what you want to hear or you'll read what ODs are trying to tell you.

Also, spend as much time as you ca talking to grads who have been out of school 2 -5 years or so. Their take, and their opportunity to succeed, is vastly different from older, established ODs.

 

[Antimonie]

Thank you for your reply, Jason K.

Unfortunately I do not know any recent grads.
And most threads I've read so far are very split and it seems like some people are very unhappy... whereas others are very happy with their careers in Optometry.
What do you think?

 

[Jason K]

Thank you for your reply, Jason K.

Unfortunately I do not know any recent grads.
And most threads I've read so far are very split and it seems like some people are very unhappy... whereas others are very happy with their careers in Optometry.
What do you think?

I think most people who are setting their sights on optometry have no idea what they're actually getting themselves into. They see what their 50 year old (or older) OD has in his private office and say "I can see myself doing that." What they don't understand is that the days of being able to create a private office like many of the successful office in existence today, are gone. The offices are still around (for now), but the conditions necessary to build a successful private office from scratch are pretty much done.

Here's what's very likely to happen in the next 10 -15 years or so. Just like pharmacy, optometry will be devoured up by commercial entities. They have sunk their teeth into the profession (allowed to do so by the profession, itself) and they'll bleed it dry until there's nothing left, except the commercial side. Then, they'll just turn their sights on each other - just like pharmacy. So, if you're ok working at Walmart, Sam's Club, etc, you're ok working in a position that basically has you refracting all day and not doing much in the way of acting as a trained optometrists, and you're ok making about 50 - 60K after you pay your loans (and before taxes), then an OD might be fine. I have a hard time justifying 8 years of undergraduate + graduate study, a couple of hundred thousand in debt, and an income in the 50s or 60s, though. It just doesn't make any sense.

I think optometry is an absolutely terrible investment these days, and most people who drop tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars into their OD degree will struggle to make it worth its while. All doctors are feeling some pain right now, and almost certainly will in the future, no matter who wins the election in November, but optometry is plagued with far more serious problems than the ones faced by physicians, podiatrists, dentists, and just about every other clinical doctoral field, maybe with the exception of chiropractics. The best part is, the pain hasn't really even started yet. When the new schools start pumping out product, it's really going to get ugly.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I think most people who are setting their sights on optometry have no idea what they're actually getting themselves into. They see what their 50 year old (or older) OD has in his private office and say "I can see myself doing that." What they don't understand is that the days of being able to create a private office like many of the successful office in existence today, are gone. The offices are still around (for now), but the conditions necessary to build a successful private office from scratch are pretty much done.

Here's what's very likely to happen in the next 10 -15 years or so. Just like pharmacy, optometry will be devoured up by commercial entities. They have sunk their teeth into the profession (allowed to do so by the profession, itself) and they'll bleed it dry until there's nothing left, except the commercial side. Then, they'll just turn their sights on each other - just like pharmacy. So, if you're ok working at Walmart, Sam's Club, etc, you're ok working in a position that basically has you refracting all day and not doing much in the way of acting as a trained optometrists, and you're ok making about 50 - 60K after you pay your loans (and before taxes), then an OD might be fine. I have a hard time justifying 8 years of undergraduate + graduate study, a couple of hundred thousand in debt, and an income in the 50s or 60s, though. It just doesn't make any sense.

I think optometry is an absolutely terrible investment these days, and most people who drop tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars into their OD degree will struggle to make it worth its while. All doctors are feeling some pain right now, and almost certainly will in the future, no matter who wins the election in November, but optometry is plagued with far more serious problems than the ones faced by physicians, podiatrists, dentists, and just about every other clinical doctoral field, maybe with the exception of chiropractics. The best part is, the pain hasn't really even started yet. When the new schools start pumping out product, it's really going to get ugly.

There's your problem. Most ODs I've met, even new ones struggling a bit, say that its a fairly good job.... if it weren't for the massive student loans.

 

[Antimonie]

VA Hopeful Dr,
would you say that the debts are enough to be turned away from the profession?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

VA Hopeful Dr,
would you say that the debts are enough to be turned away from the profession?

Take this with a HUGE grain of salt as I'm neither an OD nor will ever be (I'm an MD resident). I'll limit myself to the economic end of things since I can't speak to how enjoyable being an optometrist is.

$200,000 is a lot of debt no matter how you look at it. Many of my residency classmates are worried about their debt load, and that's with most of us getting job offers in that same range.

That same debt, with a yearly pay of $80,000-$100,000 (average OD based on this forum) is a bit more daunting.

 

[Jason K]

There's your problem. Most ODs I've met, even new ones struggling a bit, say that its a fairly good job.... if it weren't for the massive student loans.

That's a pretty big "if," my friend. If optometry school cost a few thousand dollars, like it did in the 70s and 80s, you wouldn't be reading posts from me on this site. If someone could do 2 years of community college for next to nothing and then do an OD for 5 - 10K (like you could do 25 - 30 years ago), the ROI would be totally reasonable. Even with all the nonsense going on in the profession, it would be hard to argue against a profession that would pretty much guarantee an income in the 50s to 70s, and possibly up to the 80s or 90s, for that kind of investment. The reality is, the investment is not 5 - 10K for most, it's more like 200K, once undergrad is factored in, and higher for many. So, that "if," as it turns out....is everything.

Keep in mind that the "80-100K" figure (which is heavily weighted toward 80K) is the often-reported average for FT positions (getting more and more uncommon for new grads), which right now are mostly commercial. Full-time private practice positions, for those who are lucky enough to find one, are going to be looking at 60K to 80K as the range, with some outliers. In many graduating classes, particularly those in metro areas, the majority of new grads are not able to find FT positions so they assemble them, as best they can, by stringing together PT work.

I'd also add that if you're talking to OD residents at VA hospitals, you're hardly getting a cross section of ODs that represents the majority. Most OD residents in VAs practice full-scope optometry in a pretty nice setting, but they have no exposure to real world optometry. I have a number of VA residency-trained friends who have never worked at a FT job. These are some of the most highly-trained ODs out there and many of them are stringing together positions at various Walmarts and other commercial offices, with maybe a day or two per week in a private office.

Optometry might seem fine to the casual observer, but it isn't, and the best part is, there's pretty much a civil war going on within the profession, guaranteeing that nothing will be done to correct any of its real problems. Optometry will collapse in on itself like an exhausted star. It's not going to be pretty. Don't take my word for it, listen to the people who have done workforce studies. They have been warning of problems for over a decade. Read what they warn of now - pretty much saying that "the best is yet to come in the next few years as the new schools come online."

 

[CMM83]

Thank you for your reply, Jason K.

Unfortunately I do not know any recent grads.
And most threads I've read so far are very split and it seems like some people are very unhappy... whereas others are very happy with their careers in Optometry.
What do you think?

I'm under 5 years out so that probably still qualifies as new. Let me preface by saying that I enjoy what I do. However, I would never go into a six figure debt to do it. Generating a student loan debt greater than your annual income is, in my opinion, foolish. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

 

[Antimonie]

CMM83,
I will be at 60k debt with my undergrad education... There is no way I'll get through Optometry School without 6-figure debt, actually more like well beyond 100k.
I guess this does not look like I am in a very good position..

 

[pudgie84]

i plan on getting out of optometry school $60,000 in debt or less. would you guys consider that worth it?

 

[NYCBlues]

Take this with a HUGE grain of salt as I'm neither an OD nor will ever be (I'm an MD resident). I'll limit myself to the economic end of things since I can't speak to how enjoyable being an optometrist is.

$200,000 is a lot of debt no matter how you look at it. Many of my residency classmates are worried about their debt load, and that's with most of us getting job offers in that same range.

That same debt, with a yearly pay of $80,000-$100,000 (average OD based on this forum) is a bit more daunting.

To the OP:

This is your answer. I suggest you do a lot research and read up on this forum first and hear objective accounts from practicing ODs before you matriculate blindly into OD school. Your questions have been addressed over and over again on this forum.

 

[NYCBlues]

I'm under 5 years out so that probably still qualifies as new. Let me preface by saying that I enjoy what I do. However, I would never go into a six figure debt to do it. Generating a student loan debt greater than your annual income is, in my opinion, foolish. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

Yes, it's true that I do love being an optometrist, but I would give up being an OD if I could get rid of my huge student loan debt. I graduated in 2009 btw.

 

[NYCBlues]

i plan on getting out of optometry school $60,000 in debt or less. would you guys consider that worth it?

I don't know how that amount will impact your quality of life since I don't know what your situation is, now or in the future. For me, though, if I had owed that much it would be more manageable for me, Yes, it would be more manageable for me b/c my husband makes a lot more than I make so he helps me with my student loan payments. If I didn't have help, I would say it would still be manageable. But it applies to me, not you. Only you will know.

You have to consider many variables:
1) Your spending habits
2) Are you single/married or plan to? Plan to have kids?
3) Cost of living in your area (80K or 100K in NYC means nothing, but you can live like a king in other areas of the country if you make that much)
4) Owning a home
etc, etc...........

 

[BeesKnees22]

I wish I would have been an artist like I wanted to be.

 

[Shnurek]

i plan on getting out of optometry school $60,000 in debt or less. would you guys consider that worth it?

Ya, if you've shadowed ODs in a lot of settings and can see yourself doing this for a majority of your life. I'm enjoying it so far but I'm still in school and I'll have significantly less debt than the average student so can't say much.

The bottom line is what KHE has always been saying: Is Optometry a good field for you. Not for your next door neighbor, not for your parents, not for your classmates, not for government survey responders.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That's a pretty big "if," my friend. If optometry school cost a few thousand dollars, like it did in the 70s and 80s, you wouldn't be reading posts from me on this site. If someone could do 2 years of community college for next to nothing and then do an OD for 5 - 10K (like you could do 25 - 30 years ago), the ROI would be totally reasonable. Even with all the nonsense going on in the profession, it would be hard to argue against a profession that would pretty much guarantee an income in the 50s to 70s, and possibly up to the 80s or 90s, for that kind of investment. The reality is, the investment is not 5 - 10K for most, it's more like 200K, once undergrad is factored in, and higher for many. So, that "if," as it turns out....is everything.

Keep in mind that the "80-100K" figure (which is heavily weighted toward 80K) is the often-reported average for FT positions (getting more and more uncommon for new grads), which right now are mostly commercial. Full-time private practice positions, for those who are lucky enough to find one, are going to be looking at 60K to 80K as the range, with some outliers. In many graduating classes, particularly those in metro areas, the majority of new grads are not able to find FT positions so they assemble them, as best they can, by stringing together PT work.

I'd also add that if you're talking to OD residents at VA hospitals, you're hardly getting a cross section of ODs that represents the majority. Most OD residents in VAs practice full-scope optometry in a pretty nice setting, but they have no exposure to real world optometry. I have a number of VA residency-trained friends who have never worked at a FT job. These are some of the most highly-trained ODs out there and many of them are stringing together positions at various Walmarts and other commercial offices, with maybe a day or two per week in a private office.

Optometry might seem fine to the casual observer, but it isn't, and the best part is, there's pretty much a civil war going on within the profession, guaranteeing that nothing will be done to correct any of its real problems. Optometry will collapse in on itself like an exhausted star. It's not going to be pretty. Don't take my word for it, listen to the people who have done workforce studies. They have been warning of problems for over a decade. Read what they warn of now - pretty much saying that "the best is yet to come in the next few years as the new schools come online."

Oddly enough, I've never met a VA optometrist. My new OD sample consists of 1) guy that bought dad's practice, 2) guy that works for MD I used to tech for 3) husband/wife that bought into an older ODs practice down the street 4) My wife's lenscrafters OD.

 

[Antimonie]

Thank you everyone for all your replies. I am trying to figure out if it is worth it for me.

I'd like to hear more personal examples of recent grads, if any see this post.

 

[Jason K]

Oddly enough, I've never met a VA optometrist. My new OD sample consists of 1) guy that bought dad's practice, 2) guy that works for MD I used to tech for 3) husband/wife that bought into an older ODs practice down the street 4) My wife's lenscrafters OD.

Well, you actually just made my point for me. The 4 you listed are highly unusual paths for new grads these days. #1 and #3 are just about nonexistent, #2 is something that's around, but getting more and more difficult to find since there are many experienced ODs out there competing with new grads, and #4 can range from tolerable to quite good, depending on the nature of the position.

As I've said before, there will be a small number of folks who land in "good" OD positions, whatever they might be, but as we move forward, we're going to see ever-increasing numbers of new grads forced into garbage positions like AB, Cohen's, VisionMart, etc, etc, especially if they need FT work. Those places make the local Walmart look like an optometric oasis.

All people can do is talk to as many people as they can, get as much info as they can, and make their decision. But whatever it is, they'll know they've been warned. That's more than many can say.

From this point on, I don't think any OD should plan on making more than about 110K or so, at any point in their career, and that's probably generous. Assuming the best case scenario, we're looking at thousands of people who will be paying back 200K or more in student loans, on a maximum income of around 100 to 110K when they peak out, probably starting somewhere in the 70s or 80s. It makes for a very daunting financial picture. Many people in the early stages of their careers don't even know what's happening to their student loan balances because they never look at them. Ignorance is bliss for some.

 

[Shnurek]

I know a recent SUNY grad (2010) and she's already a partner at a private practice here in the city. I honestly don't know any ODs that work commercial but according to Mr. Negative that should be non existent. And another one 2008 grad that started his own private practice cold in the city.

 

[Jason K]

I know a recent SUNY grad (2010) and she's already a partner at a private practice here in the city. I honestly don't know any ODs that work commercial but according to Mr. Negative that should be non existent. And another one 2008 grad that started his own private practice cold in the city.

Mr. Negative is just giving you a dose of reality - which will be even harder to swallow if you keep trying to convince yourself that it's not what's really out there. As a side note, I also have a classmate who graduated and "became a partner in a private office." Despite being in his 30s, he lives at home with his parents and can't move out since he's unable to afford a home on his income of about 40K/year. He was brought in under the assumption that the practice would grow after he was added - it hasn't, so now they're pretty much just splitting the income down the middle. When you're a partner, you make a percentage of the total revenue, not a salary. If the revenue leaves you making nothing, then so be it. Things are not always what they seem, and they're not always what you'd like them to be. Better get used to it.

 

[NYCBlues]

I know a recent SUNY grad (2010) and she's already a partner at a private practice here in the city. I honestly don't know any ODs that work commercial but according to Mr. Negative that should be non existent. And another one 2008 grad that started his own private practice cold in the city.

You only see things on the surface. Yes, they may have their own practice, but do you know that they may be struggling or do you know anything they have to do behind the scenes? Anyone could open a practice, but whether it'll be successful is another story.

 

[BeesKnees22]

Thank you for your reply, Jason K.

Unfortunately I do not know any recent grads.
And most threads I've read so far are very split and it seems like some people are very unhappy... whereas others are very happy with their careers in Optometry.
What do you think?

The dean of my school recently said that most of last year's grads started at 80K. I'm not super thrilled with that figure to be honest, but apparently it increases significantly within the first five years. Unless you absolutely love eyes and the profession (I mean like a true fascination), then I would say that it would probably be wise to just stick with business. If you're savvy and/or have good connections, then just stay with your business career. Optometry school really sucks. There are too many days when I wake up and know that I probably won't enjoy any part of day except for the point where I lie down to sleep. Don't give up any more of your life unless you really feel that this is your life's passion. I don't think the career is as bad as this place will have you believe, but you really do have to give up several years of your life.

 

[Shnurek]

Optometry school really sucks. There are too many days when I wake up and know that I probably won't enjoy any part of day except for the point where I lie down to sleep. Don't give up any more of your life unless you really feel that this is your life's passion. I don't think the career is as bad as this place will have you believe, but you really do have to give up several years of your life.

It sucks wtf? I love learning all this physics stuff and now we are learning pharmacology which sounds awesome. I can't wait to use the slit lamp again and to learn BIO. Why did you go into it if you dislike it?

 

[Jason K]

The dean of my school recently said that most of last year's grads started at 80K.

I had to laugh a little when I read this. The president (not the dean) of my school told us on the first day "You all are entering optometry at the best time in the history of the profession!" I now know and understand the complete load of crap that statement was. It was, as it turns out, the best time for HIM to be in the profession, as his salary was around 300K/yr. Your school's dean has no way of knowing what the average salary of his grads is. Even if he did, he'd inflate it, just as nearly all private schools do when they report OD income on their website. I recall seeing Western's website with numbers in the 170K for quoted OD income, that is, until they were called out on it and took it down. Last time I checked, they had removed all references to OD income - numeric ones, at least.

The moral of the story is, you don't take the word of the salesman, you do your own product research. Quoting what a dean or president says about optometry is like saying that the AOA president says optometry is a great field to enter. It's like the old saying goes - "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it will always be a pig."

 

[q1we3]

Optometry school really sucks. There are too many days when I wake up and know that I probably won't enjoy any part of day except for the point where I lie down to sleep. Don't give up any more of your life unless you really feel that this is your life's passion. I don't think the career is as bad as this place will have you believe, but you really do have to give up several years of your life.

I know what you mean. Some classes are so pointless, I had enough biochemistry in undergraduate don't need any more of that **** again. First year sucks. Its just another way to increase courses therefore tuition.

 

[BeesKnees22]

I know what you mean. Some classes are so pointless, I had enough biochemistry in undergraduate don't need any more of that **** again. First year sucks. Its just another way to increase courses therefore tuition.

So, so true. Many parts of higher education in this country are such a scam.

 

[BeesKnees22]

It sucks wtf? I love learning all this physics stuff and now we are learning pharmacology which sounds awesome. I can't wait to use the slit lamp again and to learn BIO. Why did you go into it if you dislike it?

I didn't say the profession or nature of the work sucks. Maybe I just didn't word it right; I was referring to all of the classes that are, in my opinion, pointless--like a lot of the tedious first year stuff. I love working with patients. Come on, the workload can get really, really intense. It's stressful.

 

[CL Doc]

The dean of my school recently said that most of last year's grads started at 80K. I'm not super thrilled with that figure to be honest, but apparently it increases significantly within the first five years.

I think it is unlikely that the school has this data. I've never been asked by my alma mater for salary information. I also don't believe it increases significantly during the first five years.

However, even if $80,000 is accurate, you have to consider the cost of living differences between areas. You can do quite well in my area with $80,000, but it would take about $140,000 to have the same buying power in New York. It's may seem strange, but in my experience ( because of competition and supply and demand issues) you make less money in more expensive areas.

I would only go into optometry (or any field) if you really like the work and are ok with a middle class lifestyle (in most larger cities).

I think before your career is over, the US will be forced into a system of socialized medicine. I think with health care costs spiraling out of control this is inevitable. When this happens, expect to work harder for the same or less money.

ODs have never been treated the same as other health care providers and I don't see this changing. As an OD you will always be low man on the health care totem pole.

 

[CMM83]

CMM83,
I will be at 60k debt with my undergrad education... There is no way I'll get through Optometry School without 6-figure debt, actually more like well beyond 100k.
I guess this does not look like I am in a very good position..

I don't know the details of your situation but I would assume you aren't in too bad of a position considering you're getting a broad, versatile undergraduate degree in business and technology. I'm far from knowledgeable in that field but surely there's decent jobs out there with annual income + benefits that would closely match your current $60K debt. Have you looked into this? By the way, don't underestimate the value of a benefits package. A lot of young people only focus on raw money but having good benefits translates to thousands and thousands of dollars in annual savings.

That said, tripling or quadrupling your debt to earn an optometry degree only to receive an additional 20-50% annual income would, in my opinion, not make sense financially. If I was in your situation and was committed to getting more education, getting a masters in accounting and going through CPA certification would yield you about the same amount of income as an optometrist with a fraction of the debt.

 

[Shnurek]

I didn't say the profession or nature of the work sucks. Maybe I just didn't word it right; I was referring to all of the classes that are, in my opinion, pointless--like a lot of the tedious first year stuff. I love working with patients. Come on, the workload can get really, really intense. It's stressful.

Ehh if you think optometry school is bad try med school. They learn all of the unnecessary PhD. minutiae that their professors force down their throats. I haven't experienced both but I've talked to some that did. MD school is about 1.5x to 2x the material. Honestly, I can't say optometry school is easy because its not. I definitely have studied harder the last year than ever in my life. However, I still go out, party, get drunk w/e. My med school friends are almost totally MIA. I spoke to a vascular surgeon and he said "If you go to medical school say goodbye to your 20's." Well, unless you attend it later in life.

Personally, if I attended med school my debt level would have been about 2x-3x more. Probably still worth it in the end but hey, I can't say I hate what I'm learning now.

I enjoy the vast majority of the material and I feel it is applicable to my future practice. Maybe this is more school specific?

Let me clue you in on one detail though. No optometry state scope of practice law has ever been downgraded or repealed. Optometry keeps making progress and the lines between ophthalmologists and optometrists are blurring ever more so with every year. This is actually one of the main reasons I feel content and why I chose the profession.

 

[KHE]

The dean of my school recently said that most of last year's grads started at 80K. I'm not super thrilled with that figure to be honest, but apparently it increases significantly within the first five years. Unless you absolutely love eyes and the profession (I mean like a true fascination), then I would say that it would probably be wise to just stick with business. If you're savvy and/or have good connections, then just stay with your business career. Optometry school really sucks. There are too many days when I wake up and know that I probably won't enjoy any part of day except for the point where I lie down to sleep. Don't give up any more of your life unless you really feel that this is your life's passion. I don't think the career is as bad as this place will have you believe, but you really do have to give up several years of your life.

Unless you end up owning a successful private practice or as the lease holder in a thriving commercial establishment, the chances that your $80,000 will go up "substantially" is vanishingly small.

Yes, after the first year or two in practice you will become more productive which may garner you a few thousand dollars more per year but one of the problems in our field is that someone with 15 or 20 years experience is really no more valuable to an employer than someone with 3-5 years experience for 98% of the cases out there.

Moral of the story...if you want to make money in this field you better be looking to be the owner.

 

[KHE]

Let me clue you in on one detail though. No optometry state scope of practice law has ever been downgraded or repealed. Optometry keeps making progress and the lines between ophthalmologists and optometrists are blurring ever more so with every year. This is actually one of the main reasons I feel content and why I chose the profession.

Not entirely correct. In New York, optometrists lost the right to remove foreign bodies for years thanks to a lengthy court battle with ophthalmologists. I do believe that has been reinstated but for a very significant period of time, optometrists were suddenly barred from doing a procedure that they had safely and efficiently been doing for years on the whim of a state court judge who's brother in law happened to be heavily involved in the machinery of New York state ophthalmology. That fight went on for years.

Also around the same time, optometrists in New York were suddenly prohibited from treating glaucoma though they had done also doing THAT safely and efficiently for years as well.

The reason for that is that when the first prostaglandin analogue came on the market (Xalatan) prostaglandin analogues were not specifically included in the optometric glaucoma formulary.

Ophthalmology made the successful argument that since optometrists couldn't practice to the standard of care (even though prostaglandins where definately NOT first line therapy at the time) that they shouldn't be allowed to treat glaucoma at all.

A judge agreed and suddenly with the stroke of a pen, bye bye glaucoma treatment ability.

All of that ended up getting resolved in optometry's favor but it took years and untold numbers of man hours and money spent. So booty for optometry but don't think for a second that these things can't happen quickly and without warning.

 

[CL Doc]

Not entirely correct. In New York, optometrists lost the right to remove foreign bodies for years thanks to a lengthy court battle with ophthalmologists. I do believe that has been reinstated but for a very significant period of time, optometrists were suddenly barred from doing a procedure that they had safely and efficiently been doing for years on the whim of a state court judge who's brother in law happened to be heavily involved in the machinery of New York state ophthalmology. That fight went on for years.

Also around the same time, optometrists in New York were suddenly prohibited from treating glaucoma though they had done also doing THAT safely and efficiently for years as well.

The reason for that is that when the first prostaglandin analogue came on the market (Xalatan) prostaglandin analogues were not specifically included in the optometric glaucoma formulary.

Ophthalmology made the successful argument that since optometrists couldn't practice to the standard of care (even though prostaglandins where definately NOT first line therapy at the time) that they shouldn't be allowed to treat glaucoma at all.

A judge agreed and suddenly with the stroke of a pen, bye bye glaucoma treatment ability.

All of that ended up getting resolved in optometry's favor but it took years and untold numbers of man hours and money spent. So booty for optometry but don't think for a second that these things can't happen quickly and without warning.

This has happened in other states as well. Another case of a little bit of knowledge can be, if not dangerous, at least misleading.

 

[Jibslider]

The dean of my school recently said that most of last year's grads started at 80K...

80K would have been nice. My first full 12 months of work after graduation which was July 2009-June 2010 I made 70K. 30% of that went to taxes. I love eyeballs and seeing patients, administration isn't my favorite thing, but the debt acquired to go to OD school is just too much. Something has to give eventually.

The debt is quite substantial... especially if you want to buy a house, start a family, and buy into a practice.

I would think much harder about OD school if I was in undergrad currently, which is a shame because I absolutely love clinical optometry.

 

[Shnurek]

Not entirely correct. In New York, optometrists lost the right to remove foreign bodies for years thanks to a lengthy court battle with ophthalmologists. I do believe that has been reinstated but for a very significant period of time, optometrists were suddenly barred from doing a procedure that they had safely and efficiently been doing for years on the whim of a state court judge who's brother in law happened to be heavily involved in the machinery of New York state ophthalmology. That fight went on for years.

Also around the same time, optometrists in New York were suddenly prohibited from treating glaucoma though they had done also doing THAT safely and efficiently for years as well.

The reason for that is that when the first prostaglandin analogue came on the market (Xalatan) prostaglandin analogues were not specifically included in the optometric glaucoma formulary.

Ophthalmology made the successful argument that since optometrists couldn't practice to the standard of care (even though prostaglandins where definately NOT first line therapy at the time) that they shouldn't be allowed to treat glaucoma at all.

A judge agreed and suddenly with the stroke of a pen, bye bye glaucoma treatment ability.

All of that ended up getting resolved in optometry's favor but it took years and untold numbers of man hours and money spent. So booty for optometry but don't think for a second that these things can't happen quickly and without warning.

Ah woops. I was just quoting an AOA news report so I can put the blame on them

"Due to political compromise some of the scope of practice expansion or amplification laws into medical eye care contained a sunset provision that, if not extended or repealed, had the potential to undo a legislative victory. 5 None of the sunset provisions that were enacted survived to accomplish the obvious goal of the opposition; to revert to an earlier statutorily defined scope of practice. So it is important to note that, in addition to the well over 180 enactments, no optometric scope of practice expansion or amplification law has ever been diminished or repealed at a later date by a state legislature."

(Source: http://newsfromaoa.org/2012/03/23/1...ory-of-scope-expansion-into-medical-eye-care/)

I'm guessing what they meant was that no law was repealed but new laws were enacted to sometimes curb optometric scope of practice?

 

[CL Doc]

Ah woops. I was just quoting an AOA news report so I can put the blame on them

"Due to political compromise some of the scope of practice expansion or amplification laws into medical eye care contained a sunset provision that, if not extended or repealed, had the potential to undo a legislative victory. 5 None of the sunset provisions that were enacted survived to accomplish the obvious goal of the opposition; to revert to an earlier statutorily defined scope of practice. So it is important to note that, in addition to the well over 180 enactments, no optometric scope of practice expansion or amplification law has ever been diminished or repealed at a later date by a state legislature."

(Source: http://newsfromaoa.org/2012/03/23/1...ory-of-scope-expansion-into-medical-eye-care/)

I'm guessing what they meant was that no law was repealed but new laws were enacted to sometimes curb optometric scope of practice?

Sometimes its a matter of interpretation of the law. At one time ODs in several states could use any ophthalmic therapeutic pharmaceutical agent because the law didn't specifically prohibit the use. ODs got an attorney general opinion and they agreed. Then they went and tried to get this written into the law and ended up with a formulary, which actually was a step backward and now the scope is narrower than what was previously allowed.