Is october too late to do an away elective in Oto?

[LaurieB]

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Laurie

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[RS6]

It depends. If you want a letter from the chairman to add to your application, it might be too late. I say might because some programs don't go through applications until November. However, most will look at them in September or October.

If you were just doing the rotation to make a good impression and not necessarily get a letter, then I think it might be OK.

Again, away electives can be hit or miss. They are a lot of work and sometimes they just aren't worth it.

 

[InHoc]

i'd aggree with the above in regards to angling for a letter. otherwise, i don't think october is too late at all to do an away. I did 2 aways - one in october and one in november. I preferred to dodge september as the academy meeting falls at the end of september and heavy hitters in the department are usually out for nearly a week attending the meeting. this might even fall during your last week of the away rotation - the week where you should totally feel comfortable in a new place, be recognizable to faculty and residents, and can totally shine.... but where are all the faculty to shine to. this led to me being at one away with one other rotator and at the other away (november) with no other rotating fourth year. i didn't ask either place for a letter as i didn't want come across as though i had just done the away there for a letter from a big name in oto - rather, i wanted to work my ace off and impress that given department. my strategy worked with flying colors... matched to my number one. should i have asked for a letter - maybe it wouldn't have hurt, but i just didn't. to each his own. hope that helped.

 

[Stevens Johnson]

InHoc, I'm thinking of doing away rotations in Oct and Nov. My rotation in Nov will end on the 16th. Do you think this will interfere with interviews in Nov? I know there's a few programs that interview early and I'm afraid I would miss them. Thoughts?

 

[chirurgino]

InHoc, I'm thinking of doing away rotations in Oct and Nov. My rotation in Nov will end on the 16th. Do you think this will interfere with interviews in Nov? I know there's a few programs that interview early and I'm afraid I would miss them. Thoughts?

This past cycle, the only program that had interview days exclusively in November was Iowa (as far as I know). UCLA also had a November date, but there was a December one as well.

 

[RS6]

Colorado had an interview in November as well. They were both in November.

 

[courtyard]

Hello,

I am planning on doing two away rotations on Aug and Sept. I was hoping to obtain two letters from those two aways, but from what I hear on this post, some programs would already have started reviewing application on Sept.

Even the letter from Aug rotation would not be ready as writers usually take time to write from when I request at the end of Aug. And Sept one will not even be ready by mid to end of Oct.

Should I change my plans about obtaining letters from away rotations of Aug and Sept?

Also, typically how many letters are expected from ENT? Do you encourage all to be from ENT? Or one of them from Surgery?

Thanks!!

C.

 

[chirurgino]

Hello,

I am planning on doing two away rotations on Aug and Sept. I was hoping to obtain two letters from those two aways, but from what I hear on this post, some programs would already have started reviewing application on Sept.

Even the letter from Aug rotation would not be ready as writers usually take time to write from when I request at the end of Aug. And Sept one will not even be ready by mid to end of Oct.

Should I change my plans about obtaining letters from away rotations of Aug and Sept?

Also, typically how many letters are expected from ENT? Do you encourage all to be from ENT? Or one of them from Surgery?

Thanks!!

C.

I had 3 clinical letters, all from ENT (and one research letter). A letter from your chairman will be very helpful--obviously it's best if he/she knows you well, but it will still be useful if he/she does not (mine certainly didn't). You can have one letter from Surgery, but this is sub-optimal, in my opinion. Don't waste time with letters from Medicine or from any other specialty.

My feeling about aways in general is that they hurt you more often than help you, as has been discussed on this board in different threads before. That being said, if there is one program that is absolutely your top choice (going home, significant other, whatever), doing an away may help get your foot in the door. As you may have seen from 3rd year, though, a rotation is always a gamble as it takes only one weird interaction (personality clash, whatever) with somebody to completely sink your chances at that program. I did not do any aways.

Beyond that, though, I think getting letters from away rotations is even more problematic -- everybody knows when you do an away that you are potentially interested in joining that program, so isn't it a little strange for you to ask them to write a letter advertising you to all the other programs out there? Realize that your situation at your home program is totally different--faculty at your home program in one sense have to write letters for their students (obviously, within reason) because it's part of their job to stand behind their students and to help their students go where they want to go. People at an away rotation have no such obligation to you, and asking them for a letter might create an awkward situation. But other people may feel differently...

 

[RS6]

I totally agree with Chirurgino. If you need to do an away because of location, spouse, or you really really want to go there then it might not be a bad idea. However, it is a gamble. What is important is for you to figure out which programs like taking their sub-I's. For instance, if school X matches all 3 spots with people that did sub-I's there, then I would think about doing one there. Some institutions just flat out don't take sub-I's. Either way, you will have to work your ass off and it could be a total waste of time. But, if you are a weak candidate and worried about getting interviews, I would definitely do them.

As far as the letters go, the chairman that you are doing the sub-I at has absolutely no obligation to write on your behalf. Think about how well you know your current chairman and divide that by 10, which is how well you will know the chairman at the place you are doing your sub-I. They see around 12 to 15 sub-I's that rotate there and they will probably write a very generic letter for all 15 of them that rotate through. This means you really have to outshine all 15 of them for him to write a meaningful letter. However, if you are going to do one, I would suggest that you make an appointment with the Chairman's secretary to sit down with him during the first week of the rotation giving him a packet of your CV and letting him know that you want a letter. Then I would sit down with him during the last week to get the letter.

Be wary of doing a sub-I in September. The academy meeting is during this month and you might lose 1 week with the department/chair because they are all gone. Also, the sooner your application is complete the better. I don't know how much of a difference it makes to have a complete application done by sept 1 but it can't hurt.

 

[resxn]

I really only have this to add about letters from those outside ENT. Make sure it has 3 components: 1) A big name 2) he/she knows you well 3) he/she likes you a lot and will write a fantastic letter. If any one of those parts is missing, it's not worth getting.

Having said that, I had the chairman of the department of surgery write one of my letters. Pretty well-known vascular surgeon and he wrote the best letter of anyone and many of my interviewers commented on it. Basically it was short and sweet and said, "I've know 'resxn' for 5 years now. I personally recruited him to this med school when I was chair of the admissions committee and I've now become disappointed in him. And the singular reason is that he decided to pursue otolaryngology rather than general surgery. You could not match a finer physician to your program."

He added a couple other short sentences, but that was it. It's that kind of letter that stands out in my opinion. It's that kind of letter that you need if not getting one from an ENT. It's that kind of letter that you need if you choose to pursue an ENT one from an outside program.

I got lucky to know this surgeon like I did and he was obviously exceptionally good to me, far more than I deserved, but I strongly believe that letter got me in more interviews than I would have had with another generic ENT one.

 

[LaurieB]

A belated thanks to everyone for their input. I think I'm going to stick with October since my main goal is really just to get a different perspective by going to another program and it sounds like I will be fine if I get all three of my letters from my home department.

Thanks again for the thoughtful responses!
Laurie