Is it worth becoming a pharmacist anymore?

[Its Z]

Every one of my pharmacists...all 30 of them think It's worth it.....and 3 new grads.

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[BeLikeBueller]

Every one of my pharmacists...all 30 of them think It's worth it.....and 3 new grads.

Yeah, but they all have jobs...

I think if you're graduating right now or within the next 2-3 years, you'll probably be fine, but if you're a freshman in college or a senior with other options, it might be a good idea to look at something that may have a little more job security in the future (nursing if you're a freshman, PA if you're a senior). If nothing else, the influx of graduates is going to drive starting salaries down, which makes loan repayment more difficult.

Not to say that pharmacy isn't an awesome profession, because it is...it's just become (unfortunately) more of a question of dollars and cents.

 

[Its Z]

They Don't Just have a job. They have an awesome job in beautiful northern Cal in a very progressive pharmacy at a very profitable hospital. And many worked their ass off to get here. No free lunch.

 

[croquemonsieur]

They Don't Just have a job. They have an awesome job in beautiful northern Cal in a very progressive pharmacy at a very profitable hospital. And many worked their ass off to get here. No free lunch.

and the others? why were they hired? nepotism? because they're attractive? just curious...

 

[confettiflyer]

They Don't Just have a job. They have an awesome job in beautiful northern Cal in a very progressive pharmacy at a very profitable hospital. And many worked their ass off to get here. No free lunch.

but free tractor rides i hope?

 

[Its Z]

and the others? why were they hired? nepotism? because they're attractive? just curious...

That's a stupid question. I hired them because they're unicorns.

Others? I inherited some dead weights. No big deal.

 

[Its Z]

but free tractor rides i hope?

Only has 1 seat.

 

[Sparda29]

That's a stupid question. I hired them because they're unicorns.

Others? I inherited some dead weights. No big deal.

How many of your staff pharmacists have completed residencies or is that not required for a staff pharmacist?

When you hire a new staff pharmacist, would you take someone who just completed a PGY1 or someone who has 3-5 years of experience as a staff pharmacist (no residency)?

Is your hospital a union hospital?

 

[rxlea]

How many of your staff pharmacists have completed residencies or is that not required for a staff pharmacist?

When you hire a new staff pharmacist, would you take someone who just completed a PGY1 or someone who has 3-5 years of experience as a staff pharmacist (no residency)?

Is your hospital a union hospital?

Looking to move out west?

 

[Its Z]

How many of your staff pharmacists have completed residencies or is that not required for a staff pharmacist?

When you hire a new staff pharmacist, would you take someone who just completed a PGY1 or someone who has 3-5 years of experience as a staff pharmacist (no residency)?

Is your hospital a union hospital?

I would never hire a pro union pharmacist. Less than 50% have residency. I will take pgy1 over 5 year staff. Pgy1 exposes pharmacist to many things Staff doesn't.

 

[Sparda29]

Looking to move out west?

Not really. If I move to Cali it would have to be LA or San Diego.

The only states I'd consider moving to from New York City are Texas, California, Colorado, and Virginia, Maine, and Minnesota.

 

[Silent Cool]

yes , this is fact
i know a pharmacist , he's 85 and still working

Is that because he can't retire? Or because his job is chill and just gives him something to do?

 

[Sparda29]

I would never hire a pro union pharmacist. Less than 50% have residency. I will take pgy1 over 5 year staff. Pgy1 exposes pharmacist to many things Staff doesn't.

I'm mixed about unions.

I like it because of the ridiculous amount of paid time off I get off the bat, which I probably wouldn't get if I weren't in a union. I like it because the insurance we have is awesome and we don't have any copays. I like it because the DOP can't fire me for disagreein

 

[nextyearrx]

In this tough economy, some people are going to Nursing school, my sister said plenty of job opportunity for Nurses!!

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

In this tough economy, some people are going to Nursing school, my sister said plenty of job opportunity for Nurses!!

I think your sister might be mistaken. The nurse market is pretty brutal in most areas of the country. There was an article not long ago saying that 43% of graduating nurses can't find nursing positions.

 

[student12399]

wow didn't think this thread would cause so much controversy! haha

 

[BeLikeBueller]

I think your sister might be mistaken. The nurse market is pretty brutal in most areas of the country. There was an article not long ago saying that 43% of graduating nurses can't find nursing positions.

They might be referencing nurse practitioners? The market for NPs and PAs is fixing to explode, I suspect. Still, anecdotally, I know one nurse who has experienced incredible job portability (left one job, had another within a week...she did this twice within two or three years, I think). From what I have heard, the biggest barrier for new RNs is lack of experience - a lot of jobs require some number of years of previous experience, which new grads simply don't have. That being said, I don't tend to keep up with that sort of thing, so IDK.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

They might be referencing nurse practitioners? The market for NPs and PAs is fixing to explode, I suspect. Still, anecdotally, I know one nurse who has experienced incredible job portability (left one job, had another within a week...she did this twice within two or three years, I think). From what I have heard, the biggest barrier for new RNs is lack of experience - a lot of jobs require some number of years of previous experience, which new grads simply don't have. That being said, I don't tend to keep up with that sort of thing, so IDK.

Oh, I'm not sure what the market is like for NPs, but I bet it is pretty decent. The article was in reference to newly minted RNs. It basically said that the market was fine for current RNs, but awful for new grads because hospitals have become less willing to train new nurses.

 

[68quebec]

In this tough economy, some people are going to Nursing school, my sister said plenty of job opportunity for Nurses!!

Field of Nursing has so much potential. Everywhere needs nurse. I strongly agree with you since my wife is RN BSN.

 

[confettiflyer]

Nursing is facing the same type of saturation as pharmacy....but the sheer army that exists, coupled with strict ratio laws and turnover means the enterprising RN/BSN just needs to work some crappy assignments for a few years.

 

[rph3664]

How many of your staff pharmacists have completed residencies or is that not required for a staff pharmacist?

When you hire a new staff pharmacist, would you take someone who just completed a PGY1 or someone who has 3-5 years of experience as a staff pharmacist (no residency)?

Is your hospital a union hospital?

Or someone with almost 20 years like me, if I was job hunting in the first place?

 

[Hope1974]

When your rent is <$500, and you live in Alaska (nothing to do), this is what happens ;-D

That was in Miami, Florida. I'm only in Alaska for 3 months in a village, and you're right, there's nothing to do.

 

[TLAD123]

No, it's not worth it. There aren't enough jobs for those of us that are graduating...

JK, (seriously its saturated), but if you are asking this question, maybe your heart lies elsewhere...

 

[68quebec]

Nursing is facing the same type of saturation as pharmacy....but the sheer army that exists, coupled with strict ratio laws and turnover means the enterprising RN/BSN just needs to work some crappy assignments for a few years.

Yes you may be right, but once again, nursing has so much potential..they can do a lot more things than just wiping patient's ass. you can be home nurse, travel nurse, school nurse, and so on. I'm not saying nursing is better job than pharmacist though.. lol

 

[rxtech2012]

To me it is worth it, but the situation is different for everyone. I am planning on graduating with about 120k in total debt(including undergrad and daily accruing interest) but my spouse is already working and doesn't have any student debt. We also have low living costs and virtually zero credit card debt. We are planning on paying down the loans as aggressively as possible before having kids. I also have many years of pharmacy experience so I know what I'm getting into; so I def suggest those who have never worked in pharmacy before get some experience before making the big decision. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Benelli]

It feels like a good career thus far. I know quite a few people who are on the "wagon of regret" right now though. I don't understand these whole "omg! Saturation!" threads though. There is saturation with almost every career. Pretty sure there is competition for Wal-Mart greeter positions. I have found quite a few places that are hiring pharmacists, I just think it helps when people know you and your work ethic.

 

[pinipig523]

my wife doesn't like it. good thing we have other income streams or we'd be in trouble.

 

[nextyearrx]

no, it is not worth becoming a pharmacist in today's economy and stressful retail setting!!!

I would go to engineering school and become an electrical or mechanical engineer or may be IT !!Trust me pharmacy is much different than what it used to be 10 years ago..

 

[AK-47]

Like the title asks, what do you guys think? Any pre-pharm/pharm students or actual pharmacists have any say? I'd love to hear it!

Simply .............................NO and if you do stay away from For profit institution......especially the one in Louisville KY they will screw you so bad. I currently go here I regreted it. should have stayed in puerto rico.........you see what am saying b/c i said puerto Rico the Dean will soon call Town hall meeting looking for who is from Puerto Rico and threaten to expell, delay leadership by threat? it not going to work.....its only a matter of time...not for long

 

[Hello2000]

Every one of my pharmacists...all 30 of them think It's worth it.....and 3 new grads.

One must be either a professional gambler or have balls of steel to gamble $300k and 7 years of your life on one of Z's three new grad jobs. Again he speaks on a micro scale and not on the macro picture.

I don't know how many pharmacy grads there are annually in CA but it's a high risk strategy if you go for one of his three (yes three) unicorn jobs.

I bow down to my knees and worship thee oh great Z for providing so much hope for newly qualified pharmacists with residency.

 

[MedAffairer]

I didn't really read this whole thread completely.

But when considering pharmacy at this point, first think of what type of practice you are looking to get into - community/retail, clinical, bioinformatics, industry?
Now think about about where each field will be and where you WANT to be in 5, 10, 20, 30 years from now. Can you handle being a retail or clinical pharmacist for the rest of your life? It might be tolerable and maybe even enjoyable for some for those first few years. For many I know (since I come from a family and extended family of pharmacists), they will either eventually become fed up with management or abusive patients and leave altogether, or will just decide to tough it out for the rest of their lives. The future of clinical pharmacy is still quite hazy. My dad has been a retail/community pharmacist for almost 40 years. Even though he won't say it to my face, I can see that he is sick and tired of working retail, but hey, it pays the bills.

Find a field that will allow you to have flexibility to move around in the future if things really come crashing down. IMHO, retail is not the answer. Clinical pharmacy or industry may be a better option..

 

[kendrick lamar]

I got into a 0-6 program and didn't know if I wanted to do pharmacy (pretty tough to know right after you graduate high school). But b/c it was said to be a stable job with reasonable hours and something where you still use some medical knowledge, I went with it. Even when I wanted to take extra classes, my advisor told me "you'll be making good money after you graduate whether you take these classes or not so it doesn't matter". I think most people who have pushed me to do pharmacy have mostly just thought about the fact that it would be a comfortable job with good hours and good pay and I think because it is not like that anymore, it is really disappointing people's expectations. Pharmacy is nearing in the ranks of just about every other major or career where it's not easy to find a job, but you should have some level of interest in it to pursue it. If you can't find a job as an intern, you'll have to consider finding a place that will hire you if you offer to work for free as a volunteer. If you can see yourself doing that, then you probably won't have regrets. And if you enjoyed school, why regret it?

As for me, I don't know how to feel yet. I didn't really enjoy the company in pharmacy school, I didn't make good friends, I went through a period of a lot of depression and anxiety for a variety of reasons both pharmacy school and non-pharmacy school related. I didn't get a job as an intern although I did everything I could to get one. I have no experience. I'm getting pretty worried at this point. I did my retail and hospital pharmacy rotations and really didn't like them, but moreso retail than hospital. I can probably see myself doing hospital pharmacy for some time. I do like clinical pharmacy and have considered getting a residency. I'm not sure how the job prospects are afterwards, I hear some favorable and some not favorable things, but I have to put my mental health first and I think this is something, probably just about the only thing, that interests me so far. I have also considered doing some other volunteer opportunities, I might go back to the ambulance services I was a part of and/or do some research or something and seeing if I have any other interests that come along the way. If you went through pharmacy with little to no interest other than having a "comfortable" career (which the definition of comfortable would vary between people) I would say it's not worth it anymore.

 

[Silent Cool]

Why don't more people look into buying out an independent?

http://www.mergernetwork.com/pharmacies-and-drug-stores-for-sale/page-1

 

[Jbuprepharm]

I love my job, but if I had future knowledge of the career field when I started considering it in undergrad, I would have found something different to do. Just my opinion, but I would have avoided healthcare altogether and not been so focused on a salary. I would have found something to do out of undergrad with no debt and been much wealthier now than I am currently.

I had a do over, I would not go pharmacy or any healthcare. I don't knock anyone who would though

 

[queenietess]

It depends.. If you have a college fund or have help paying for tuition then by all means yes! But if you are out in California and have to take out 200k plus in loans or anything over 150k then no! It's all about the mathematics now. Especially with most pharmacy jobs other than retail paying less and less by the minute. More graduates coming out desperate for jobs and willing to take anything does not help the big picture either. Just my 2 sense....

 

[BeLikeBueller]

http://www.hackreactor.com/ <--- this is what I would do if I were just graduating high school.

A few months for a six-figure salary. Sure, why not?

 

[twester]

I pursued pharmacy as a second career because I was tired of IT. I also had not completed a degree and always felt it was unfinished business. When I decided to return to school, I considered my options. I knew I was drawn to science without doubt, but knew that pure science would probably be an isolation trap for me since I tend to be quite introverted by nature. I'm one of those people who needs the social interaction that a job forces me into. I figured medicine would be a perfect fit for my interests and personality.

I also recognized that the opportunity costs of training for a second career were going to be high. Nursing would have had the least opportunity cost, but I didn't feel I was suited to nursing. I found out that I had a really strong aptitude for chemistry combined with a passion for biology. Pharmacy was the clear path.

But, it was kind of a failure in terms of finance. I missed out on nearly a million dollars of income in my 7 years of schooling not to mention now being $130K in debt. Then I had a hard time getting my pharmacy career started. Jobs were totally absent in the city I resided in. I dug my heels in, determined to stay, but I could only manage to do that if I went back to IT. I feel fortunate that I had my first career to fall back on (and I made more money as a contractor than I do as a pharmacist), but it wasn't what I wanted. What I was doing wasn't working (you can read back to posts where I expressed extreme, borderline irrational frustration). Finally, I decided to try something different. I moved from Colorado to Idaho because it appeared that there was opportunity for pharmacists here. It was still western and scenic. And family was closer.

A month after my arrival in Idaho, I had two competing job offers. Ultimately there was no real competition. I took the lower paying of two hospital jobs in the smaller of two Idaho towns. I felt the opportunities for independent and responsible practice were greater with the position I accepted. I was correct. I couldn't be happier with my choice. I live in one of the most beautiful places on earth. The cost of living here is much lower than in Denver. My job is fantastic. I'm a staff-clinical (kind of hybrid) pharmacist with a lot of influence over patient care. After a series of false starts, my chosen career is finally taking off. And it looks exactly like what I envisioned - only in a different place than I envisioned.

I was lied to by my alma mater about the prospects for a fabulous income with gigantic sign-on bonuses and unlimited career opportunities. I'll never forget that fact. But I'm not bitter. Those aren't the reasons I went into pharmacy. It has worked out, but it took substantial sacrifice on my part - from the beginning until now. From my perspective, it was been worth it. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Gombrich12]

I missed out on nearly a million dollars of income in my 7 years of schooling not to mention now being $130K in debt.

Wow, you could be semi-retired and working at a fulfilling job by now.

 

[1bad45calgirl]

HELL NO.
You earn EVERY DIME of that money, and are subject to termination at any point in time.
Get a 4 yr degree in something else!!!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[KidPharmD]

If you are asking this question, then maybe not for you.

However, I LOVE my job. I enjoy coming to work, and wouldn't trade what I do for anything.
If I could rewind to my Sophomore year of undergrad, I would make the same career decisions. Honestly I wish there was some way for those that regret the decision to go do something else. It is a little bothersome that I know that there are so many pharmacists taking jobs when they wish they were doing something else.

 

[VCU07]

Is it worth it? This was the original question. My answer is quite simple-it depends! For me, it's a No. The amount of debt I accrued in school vs. my salary as a hospital pharmacist is a large burden to tackle. I will be battling these loans for the next 20 years. I would rather have gone into business for myself-not pharmacy, but another outlet. I like having control over my own fate and we as pharmacists will always be employees of a larger corporation.

 

[Doctor M]

Working for a chain was a means to get somewhere else with my career. For me it was worth the 90k+ i owed. It has opened many doors and made me realize just how greedy and horrible it is to work for chains. I cherish every day of my career...Love working!!

 

[jokersmiles]

It is worth it if you truly have a passion for drugs but not if you are doing it if you think you will live a comfortable lifestyle.

 

[torontopharm]

It is worth it if you truly have a passion for drugs but not if you are doing it if you think you will live a comfortable lifestyle.

If you have passion for drugs...you should pursue a PhD in Medicinal Chem, Pharmacology or Pharmaceutical Sciences.

 

[yllekyad]

I know this is an old thread, but I want to know the primary reason pharmacists don't like their jobs. Is it mainly because of the student loan to income ratio? I'm thinking of joining the military and would end up having about $25K in student loans. Would it be worth it to still become a pharmacist? I've been very interested in it since before I started my undergrad. Thanks!

 

[Michael_Scott]

It is a risk/reward scenario. Is the amount of student loan debt accumulated worth the cost of a job with nice pay but limited job prospects? If the loan debt was low and the interest rate wasn't so high I would say that pharmacy is still a great bet. But factor in the fact that most of us are going to graduate with over $150k in debt and only have a monthly net take home of $6k. Typical 10-year loan payments in the $150-200k range will be in the $1800-2500/month range. This kind of debt is very hard to stomach when jobs are so hard to come by.

If you can go to a public school and pay in state tuition, yes. Private or out of state schools, no.

THIS! perfectly said by these two....if you get a good pharmacy job, you will do great, but if you get a dreadful job like CVS, you are going to hate it. Also, if you take 200+ in tuition for a pharmD degree, its not worth it...

...also the value/worth of something is different from person to person.

 

[yllekyad]

THIS! perfectly said by these two....if you get a good pharmacy job, you will do great, but if you get a dreadful job like CVS, you are going to hate it. Also, if you take 200+ in tuition for a pharmD degree, its not worth it...

...also the value/worth of something is different from person to person.

It definitely is something I want to pursue, I've been working as a tech in a retail pharmacy for a few weeks now and I can already tell that I'll love being a pharmacist. Granted these jobs are different, however, I really like the fast-paced atmosphere and the feeling that I'm making a difference in people's lives. The only reason I may not be able to do it would be the cost, however that won't be a problem if I decide to join the military

 

[lord999]

I think your sister might be mistaken. The nurse market is pretty brutal in most areas of the country. There was an article not long ago saying that 43% of graduating nurses can't find nursing positions.

This is an old argument, in fact spanning decades of healthcare workforce planning from HRSA.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0167629695000138

Minus the technical jargon (because the conclusion kind of has this sexist overtone to some people):

If you train a bunch of anything where there is a balance between being a stay-at-home and working, and the working market entrance rates are relatively fixed:
1. A nation will ALWAYS train an excess number of practitioners
2. But, depending on the economic circumstances, the wage setting (the monopsony issue) can cause a situation that despite the fact that there are large numbers of unemployed practitioners, there is a local market shortage.
3. And, the competitive pressures between trying to optimize payroll and personnel in the regulatory environment make practice life very busy for the ones who do participate.

Nursing was the profession that pioneered that oversupply approach, then physical therapy, then audiology, and now pharmacy. There's some arguments that medicine is approaching that as a stay-at-home physician is not as uncommon as it used to be.

So, it does mean for those of us who work that any shortages end up being collapsed on, that when you do work, you always feel that you're at the edge, that if you are a director or supervisor, that it's hard to find good help (because either the prospects are already in jobs or are in situations that applying don't really make sense like be married up). It's a world where everyone doesn't get what they want, but the situation is fluid enough.

(Insert any health professional, but the paper was written to deal with nurses):
There is always a nursing local shortage somewhere, but nationally an excess of nurses. There is always a lack of qualified, employable nurses in markets as they have better options or the pay is not sufficient for them to participate. There is always job insecurity for currently employed nurses, because the excess nurses make any one nurse replaceable. Wages are less dependent irrespective of area of the country, practice environment, or experience in comparison to what the nurse can negotiate. In a capitalist society, the best and only real defense a worker has is to choose who they sell their labor to at what price, so you should negotiate for what you think you deserve and no less.

That's the Nash equilibrium here, that the saddle point is between those three sorts of bad for you outcomes. The correction can be:
1. You raise the qualification bar so that there is a smaller market (not usually possible for a profession, Pharmacy exercised their one time option in 2001 to do it nationally by removing BSPharm as a qualification possibility).
2. Hospitals/Chains act as a cartel and basically do not hire anyone they fire in a market - Illegal since Group Life & Health Insurance Company v. Royal Drug Co.
3. Pharmacists act as a concerted professional group and blackball businesses that don't work.

Guess what, medicine did all three to save themselves in the early and mid 20th Century (Social Transformation...):
1. Flexner closed down more than 2/3's of the medical schools, period. ACGME was formed and controlled by AMA.
2. Kaiser being the hospital, would not give any physicians any business if they screwed Kaiser mines or railroads
3. (After getting burned by Kaiser) AMA blackballed Kaiser or any hospital that directly employs physician and actually shut down what now is Sutter and CHW as a massive strike. That's WHY CA has that law that a hospital may not directly employ a physician in a clinical position unless they happen to be Kaiser or the feds.
4. (Not the nice thing to say): A refusal to admit anyone after Flexner that wouldn't work in the practice of medicine. That's why for a long time after Flexner, women were not admitted to medicine until WWII and even then in limited numbers. The social attitude was that any occupation that can be oversupplied wasn't "gentlemen's" work.

I like what I do, and I actually like the practice of retail chain pharmacy just fine even though I don't work in it at the moment. What's a shame is that is becoming a worse deal for everyone, and the communication of the risks is not well articulated (and the faculty have their head in the sand at best). For those that are more experienced, you have to remember that they started their careers in even a worse time (early Reagan era was a particularly crap time to be a pharmacist). They've survived much worse than what we are going into. But, for every OldTimer and It's Z, there is a pharmacist that stopped practice earlier than what would have been a normal career. You should remember that any career takes effort to maintain, and there are good times and bad.

 

[steveysmith54]

ould it be worth it to still become a pharmacist?!

no

 

[Humble Sloth]

Like the title asks, what do you guys think? Any pre-pharm/pharm students or actual pharmacists have any say? I'd love to hear it!

I would say it's worth it if you are okay with earning 50,000 (what the average salary will be for prn pharmD's in 2020) a year to do a sometimes very monotonousness and stressful job. I like pharmacy because unlike engineering you don't have to really think. All the rules are really set in stone and you know exactly what you have to do for your role. Of course you really have to love humanity as well because you well get more than a few gems that come in and try to throw wrenches in the gears of your operation.