Is It Official?

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Am I officially a DO student now? Yesterday our professor told us to not worry about taking the USMLE because the COMLEX is held in the same regard to PD's, and that its the same test. He has a PhD in biostatistics and is brand new to teaching so hes obviously very qualified..

I feel like that makes me official!

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[Robotfishbrain]

I know this post is written in jest but this all depends on what school you're at and what institutions your school feeds medical students to. OUHCOM, for example, has a big foot print in Ohio and PDs in the state do hold the COMLEX in similar regard as the USLME. I had face-to-face meetings with three PDs (DO and non DO) that gave me info that wildly differs from what you hear on this forum. There are no 'tiers' of DO schools, but not all DO schools are equal in terms of their relationship with the medical community.

That being said, if you're applying to huge non-DO university programs, USLME will help you. The COMLEX simply isn't there yet.

 

[popopopop]

Get advice from upperclassmen asap to see how much board prep stuff overlaps curriculum. That's what I would do first. Don't wait until mid-second year to realize you don't know anything for the USMLE.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Get advice from upperclassmen asap to see how much board prep stuff overlaps curriculum. That's what I would do first. Don't wait until mid-second year to realize you don't know anything for the USMLE.

Best advice ever unless you want to blissfully get above average in preclinical grades and start a meltdown thread about quitting med school bc of a board failure

 

[QueenJames]

Lol

You're in for a treat.

Your school is lying to you broski.

Take the USMLE.

You *technically* now have little than 2 years to prepare for it.

Best get to it... ya heearrddddd.

 

[Goro]

Am I officially a DO student now? Yesterday our professor told us to not worry about taking the USMLE because the COMLEX is held in the same regard to PD's, and that its the same test. He has a PhD in biostatistics and is brand new to teaching so hes obviously very qualified..

I feel like that makes me official!

I recommend taking the USMLE unless you're in the bottom quintile of your class (80% or lower GPA)

 

[calbear20]

Been lurking for years and with all due respect Goro I have to disagree. I still think it's a case by case basis. My best friend is literally in the bottom of the class ~250/270 but stepped up to the plate and got a 227 on step. 570s on comlex. Pre-clinical grades (depending on the institution) don't always correlate with board scores. Even a >220+ step score would have done her wonders but she did better than that.

I recommend taking the USMLE unless you're in the bottom quintile of your class (80% or lower GPA)

 

[Goro]

Been lurking for years and with all due respect Goro I have to disagree. I still think it's a case by case basis. My best friend is literally in the bottom of the class ~250/270 but stepped up to the plate and got a 227 on step. 570s on comlex. Pre-clinical grades (depending on the institution) don't always correlate with board scores. Even a >220+ step score would have done her wonders but she did better than that.

Cases like these are true confounders. Some people decide to skate through preclinical and focus, laser-like, on Boards. But the down side is that we don't know how these people will do in the clinic.

The other confounder is what exactly is "bottom of the class" or "Bottom quintile" I defined the latter as B- or less for pre-clinical GPA. But some schools have a really good cohort of students, and so bottom of the class for them might be someone who would be in the middle of the pack at a weaker school.

Here's the big deal: We and other med schools (both MD and DO) find that pre-clinical GPA is the best predictor for Boards performance. NBME shelf exams are also excellent predictors.

So your friend might be an outlier. There always will be outliers. Our 5/6 bottom students in the the 2020s were at the bottom in our COMLEX cohort this year. The other person was a surprise, but had life issues intervene. All passed though!

If I may crow, our students have USMLE scores = the MD cohort this year. I suspect several other COms will report the same news.

 

[calbear20]

Haha to be honest I think I go to your school or I may be in the same state. I've read your input on a number of topics for years. You're right though and that makes sense. I just bring it up as n=1 so that people don't automatically decide not to take step because of their preclinical grades. I think people need to take practice NBMEs and decide for themselves ultimately if they're in a place to do decent on step. I'm not sure what your thoughts are on navigating the match for the 2020 class solely relying on a comlex score but I've not heard good things about that.

Cases like these are true confounders. Some people decide to skate through preclinical and focus, laser-like, on Boards. But the down side is that we don't know how these people will do in the clinic.

The other confounder is what exactly is "bottom of the class" or "Bottom quintile" I defined the latter as B- or less for pre-clinical GPA. But some schools have a really good cohort of students, and so bottom of the class for them might be someone who would be in the middle of the pack at a weaker school.

Here's the big deal: We and other med schools (both MD and DO) find that pre-clinical GPA is the best predictor for Boards performance. NBME shelf exams are also excellent predictors.

So your friend might be an outlier. There always will be outliers. Our 5/6 bottom students in the the 2020s were at the bottom in our COMLEX cohort this year. The other person was a surprise, but had life issues intervene. All passed though!

If I may crow, our students have USMLE scores = the MD cohort this year. I suspect several other COms will report the same news.

 

[Goro]

Haha to be honest I think I go to your school or I may be in the same state. I've read your input on a number of topics for years. You're right though and that makes sense. I just bring it up as n=1 so that people don't automatically decide not to take step because of their preclinical grades. I think people need to take practice NBMEs and decide for themselves ultimately if they're in a place to do decent on step. I'm not sure what your thoughts are on navigating the match for the 2020 class solely relying on a comlex score but I've not heard good things about that.

In general, I suspect that the fields that have historically been friendly to DOs will stay as such. And those residencies that have taken students from your school know its quality, hence, they're good as well.

 

[Rekt]

Been lurking for years and with all due respect Goro I have to disagree. I still think it's a case by case basis. My best friend is literally in the bottom of the class ~250/270 but stepped up to the plate and got a 227 on step. 570s on comlex. Pre-clinical grades (depending on the institution) don't always correlate with board scores. Even a >220+ step score would have done her wonders but she did better than that.

I don't know why this is constantly perpetuated on this forum. There's obvious outliers to what Goro said, but it's extremely apparent that there's a very clear correlation between how well someone does in classes vs. how they do on boards. This is not because pre-clinical education is amazing, it simply comes down to work ethic, efficiency, knowing how to study, etc And of course there's a knowledge baseline that is gained by studying lectures whether you want to believe it or not. Memorizing Pathoma and FA will only get you so far. MOST of the time, someone who has been lazy and scoring poorly throughout M1-2 is not going to turn around come boards. They'll be wondering why they got a 425 and will be posting "What can I do with this?".

 

[calbear20]

And while that may be "extremely apparent" no one was denying that what Goro said has truth to it. In fact if you read my comment I said it is true. My post was only to give hope to those who are "in the bottom quartile" and remind them that it is a CASE BY CASE basis. I had another friend whose highest practice exam average on NBMEs was 194 but ended up scoring 224 on the real thing. Like I already stated, it's N = 1. I would encourage anyone that is on the fence about taking step to study and prepare as if they are going to take it, take practice exams, and if the stars don't align and they don't feel they're ready then don't take it. But I don't think it's warranted to automatically discourage people just because they're in the bottom of their class to automatically dismiss the idea. The assumption that being on the bottom percent of your class means you are "lazy" is a huge generalization as well. Many people don't adjust to medical school as fast as others or have other things going on in their lives. I sit in the middle of my class at a traditionally considered "middle tier to top tier" school but with prep and focus I scored 233 on step and 614 on comlex. While I have a personal friend in sigma sigma phi who did not even break 220.

I don't know why this is constantly perpetuated on this forum. There's obvious outliers to what Goro said, but it's extremely apparent that there's a very clear correlation between how well someone does in classes vs. how they do on boards. This is not because pre-clinical education is amazing, it simply comes down to work ethic, efficiency, knowing how to study, etc And of course there's a knowledge baseline that is gained by studying lectures whether you want to believe it or not. Memorizing Pathoma and FA will only get you so far. MOST of the time, someone who has been lazy and scoring poorly throughout M1-2 is not going to turn around come boards. They'll be wondering why they got a 425 and will be posting "What can I do with this?".

 

[Angus Avagadro]

And while that may be "extremely apparent" no one was denying that what Goro said has truth to it. In fact if you read my comment I said it is true. My post was only to give hope to those who are "in the bottom quartile" and remind them that it is a CASE BY CASE basis. I had another friend whose highest practice exam average on NBMEs was 194 but ended up scoring 224 on the real thing. Like I already stated, it's N = 1. I would encourage anyone that is on the fence about taking step to study and prepare as if they are going to take it, take practice exams, and if the stars don't align and they don't feel they're ready then don't take it. But I don't think it's warranted to automatically discourage people just because they're in the bottom of their class to automatically dismiss the idea. The assumption that being on the bottom percent of your class means you are "lazy" is a huge generalization as well. Many people don't adjust to medical school as fast as others or have other things going on in their lives. I sit in the middle of my class at a traditionally considered "middle tier to top tier" school but with prep and focus I scored 233 on step and 614 on comlex. While I have a personal friend in sigma sigma phi who did not even break 220.

Residencies look at applicants on a case by case basis. Board scores are useful, but not the lone determinate of who is selected and rejected. A high board score with low preclinical and class rank might not be enough to convince PD's to take you. Probably more important is to audition and shine. Show up early,stay late, ask what you can do to help, offer to give a presentation. PD's look for someone who they can teach and who can get along with patient's and staff. Best wishes and good luck

 

[alprazoslam]

On the bright side the usmle was much easier to prepare for but again the testing pool is different.
Most everything on usmle was in uworld or first aid or you could derive the answer there from

Comlex was ugh a lot I had never heard of and very vague. Vague as in “yeah I can make this diagnosis from this much info”
IE- patient comes in with a numb leg basically no more info and u gotta know it’s ugh conversion disorder. Never mind anything else that can cause it lol because the item writer says it’s this!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comlex also had a decent amount of contradictory information where literally no answer should be correct ut what do I know I’m not a cranial wizard

 

[sunshinefl]

anyone that is on the fence about taking step to study and prepare as if they are going to take it, take practice exams, and if the stars don't align and they don't feel they're ready then don't take it.

This is exactly my approach to it.

Comlex was ugh a lot I had never heard of and very vague. Vague as in “yeah I can make this diagnosis from this much info”
IE- patient comes in with a numb leg basically no more info and u gotta know it’s ugh conversion disorder. Never mind anything else that can cause it lol because the item writer says it’s this!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is how I feel about a lot of our school exams.