Is it a pharmacists responsibility to check dosage?

[BMBiology]

I worked summers back home at the local hospital, too. Haha. Putz.

Right and it took you four years working in retail to realize that you were "selling out" the profession?

You and I are old members of this forum and I remember you started a blog called something like "apathy pharmacy student". Now you are the defender of the profession!? It is now 2009 so I guess it is a good time for a change.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[loo]

Don't you have stat docusate orders, useless wound care protocol, and discharge to LTCF med consults to do?

Enough of the crapping on your fellow pharmacists (who don't practice in a hospital setting). It's petty, pointless, and shows how insecure you really are.

Shut up, already. It's getting a little old.

 

[67echo]

I'm currently going through the credential process at my institution. I love it when they ask me if i'm a clinical pharmacist or just a pharmacist...

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

WVU, I think geographic locations plays a big part too. While I have certainly seen a few residents in NYC hospitals, and maybe one or two ID clinical pharmacist, most clinical pharmacists are more based out in the west or in rural areas like all the way out in long island in a ****ty hospital.

I think the reason for that being is there is no shortage of specialists MD that cant do what a clinical pharmacist can do (example being that there is a lot of infectious disease physicians). PT is left to DOP and assistant DOP.

For me, I picked retail because i am young and I cant stand being lock up in a basement or some worktop away from sunlight. I prefer standing over sitting and I prefer my own autonomy.

I would however never do drive-thrus, never do rx coupons (its illegal in NYS anyway), among other things. For example, CVS has this new bs program where Caremark tells us that the patient is filling at another pharmacy and that we should talk to them concerning the dangers of using different pharmacies. I usually ignore those. There's probably tons of HIPAA violation there alone.

I try to do my best to reach my numbers but if I don't make it, I don't stress out. The most they can do is give me a smaller end of year bonus and lower my goals for next year.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Right and it took you four years working in retail to realize that you were "selling out" the profession?

Actually, yes. People grow up...realize that chasing money ain't worth it...get more familiar with the profession...where it's going...where it's been...then reevaluate their preconceived notions. If anything such a change in paradigm after practical experience makes the stance even more valid. Come on, playa, if you're going to try to out-logic me, be good at it.

Though it should be noted that the only reason I took the retail job was because it was the only job I could get for intern hours and money to live off of in Morganhole.

You and I are old members of this forum and I remember you started a blog called something like "apathy pharmacy student". Now you are the defender of the profession!? It is now 2009 so I guess it is a good time for a change.

Yup. Twas' a good blog. Though that entire moniker was mostly about my apathy towards SCHOOL not real life pharmacy practice...which is awesome. The second I left school, clinical pharmacy all of a sudden became interesting because it wasn't being force fed to me. And boy did I hate school...and boy did the school hate me. You could just imagine a guy like me around a bunch of academics...speak the ol' mind too much with my actions...they only threatened to kick me out once though...in writing. It was the crazy new dean...women had never met me once, yet threatened to kick me out of school based upon hearsay. Kinda comical in retrospect...

 

[BMBiology]

Though it should be noted that the only reason I took the retail job was because it was the only job I could get for intern hours and money to live off of in Morganhole.

If it is fine for you to take a retail position because of money and out of necessities then why are you so against pharmacists working in retail? They have bills and student loans to pay. You should at least understand what they are going through. It is really tough to find a clinical position in big cities so let's cut them some slack.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Don't you have stat docusate orders, useless wound care protocol, and discharge to LTCF med consults to do?

I have never actually done any of those. Medication reconciliation sheets make me cry, though.

Enough of the crapping on your fellow pharmacists (who don't practice in a hospital setting). It's petty, pointless, and shows how insecure you really are.

No it isn't. The system they help perpetuate is damaging...I'd actually be interested in community pharmacy if they didn't destroy it already. I'm bloody pissed off because it's my profession. I'm at least going to complain...jesus...it's Friday night and I'm married, the hell else am I going to do?

Shut up, already. It's getting a little old.

Ok, here's what you do. See the little button at the top-right hand portion of your browser that may or may not read "back?" Hit that. Then don't open this thread again. Problem solved from your end. Yeah, some random person disproves of my ranting...that'll make my unstable, psychotic Scots-Irish blood stop complaining. Brilliant strategy, Custer.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

If it is fine for you to take a retail position because of money and out of necessities then why are you so against pharmacists working in retail? They have bills and student loans to pay. You should at least understand what they are going through. It is really tough to find a clinical position in big cities. They have to eat too.

Please...I can find you a non-retail job anywhere. Hell, you can work for the Cleveland Clinic or Hopkins if you wanted to. I know of 3 hospitals in Philly that are hiring just because I know people that work at them and they tell me to move my wife back home and take a job with them...they're hiring. If you can't find a non-retail job in Pittsburgh, you aren't trying. Hell, I got an informal job interview offer at Dave and Buster's in Pittsburgh once just chit-chatting with the poor saps I was owning at trivia. Those are just the four major cities I am closest to. Meh. Oh well. I suppose I should cherish you people. It means I don't have to do it.

 

[BMBiology]

Please...I can find you a non-retail job anywhere. Hell, you can work for the Cleveland Clinic or Hopkins if you wanted to. I know of 3 hospitals in Philly that are hiring just because I know people that work at them and they tell me to move my wife back home and take a job with them...they're hiring. If you can't find a non-retail job in Pittsburgh, you aren't trying.

You are missing the whole point. Not everyone is as awesome as you so some people have to work where they dont want to, just like you did.

 

[loo]

No it isn't. The system they help perpetuate is damaging...I'd actually be interested in community pharmacy if they didn't destroy it already. I'm bloody pissed off because it's my profession. I'm at least going to complain...jesus...it's Friday night and I'm married, the hell else am I going to do?

Here's my strategy, you crybaby whiner: Quit complaining and do something about it instead of sitting on your high horse spouting off how the rest of us pharmacists (read non-hospital based) ruin the profession. I'm getting tired of all the broad generalizations and judgements you make. And too bad, I'm gonna call you out if I feel like it instead of ignoring your ignorant comments. I think your ego has become a little too inflated.

Your b*itching does nothing to solve the problem, especially when some of your vitriol is directed at your fellow pharmacists. You have no reason to judge all pharmacists based on your limited experience. Who the heck do you think you are?

I can see why it would be hard for you to get laid.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Right and it took you four years working in retail to realize that you were "selling out" the profession?

You and I are old members of this forum and I remember you started a blog called something like "apathy pharmacy student". Now you are the defender of the profession!? It is now 2009 so I guess it is a good time for a change.

No, No....whats better his blog was titled "The apathetic PHARMACIST". I busted him out on this 2 years ago. He started it as a first year pharmacy student. So the new "hospital stud" has been calling himself the apathetic PHARMACIST since his first year of pharmacy school.

 

[zohaibab]

Here's my strategy, you crybaby whiner: Quit complaining and do something about it instead of sitting on your high horse spouting off how the rest of us pharmacists (read non-hospital based) ruin the profession. I'm getting tired of all the broad generalizations and judgements you make. And too bad, I'm gonna call you out if I feel like it instead of ignoring your ignorant comments. I think your ego has become a little too inflated.

Your b*itching does nothing to solve the problem, especially when some of your vitriol is directed at your fellow pharmacists. You have no reason to judge all pharmacists based on your limited experience. Who the heck do you think you are?

I can see why it would be hard for you to get laid.

Close this thread. Mr. loo has already delivered the knockout punch .

 

[Omegadramon]

I bet all the MDs are laughing at us.

Yes, I know yall are out there reading this post with a giant grin on yo face.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

No, No....whats better his blog was titled "The apathetic PHARMACIST". I busted him out on this 2 years ago. He started it as a first year pharmacy student. So the new "hospital stud" has been calling himself the apathetic PHARMACIST since his first year of pharmacy school.

....and your point is....?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Here's my strategy, you crybaby whiner: Quit complaining and do something about it instead of sitting on your high horse spouting off how the rest of us pharmacists (read non-hospital based) ruin the profession.

Well, I suppose it's all about perspective. You say I'm on a high horse. I say I'm standing on level ground with pharmacists who work legit community, nuclear, LTC, ambulatory care, industry, academic, clinical, and a bazillion other...looking down into the pits of Hades known as corporate retail pharmacy and just wondering....why? What other self-respecting health profession pays off people for transferring their business? If I switch PCPs, do I get a $20 gift certificate at The Gap? Or professions that do loss-leader services? Are there dentists at WalMart giving you a quick cavity check on a conveyor belt of humanity for $4? Oh...and...seriously...drive-throughs? Do psychiatrists offer drive-though counseling?

CORPORATE retail pharmacy is laughable...and embarrassing. I actually quit the aforementioned retail internship because it is what it is. I just didn't work for months. Lived off of loans. In fact, I actually went 2 months AFTER graduating without a job (and many retail jobs were available) specifically because I refuse to work at any corporate pharmacy for any reason ever again. I waited for a real job to open up and I jumped on it.

I'm getting tired of all the broad generalizations and judgements you make.

Hmm...I see you haven't taken my "back button on the browser" advise.

And too bad, I'm gonna call you out if I feel like it instead of ignoring your ignorant comments. I think your ego has become a little too inflated.

Blah, blah, blah, ok, good for you. You told me I should "shut up". Upon which I replied that if you don't want to read my insane ramblings...well...don't read them. You can feel free to continue to fail at "calling me out". Again, I got the Appalachian Scots-Irish thing going. I love to argue. I probably should have been a lawyer. But, really, I'm already about 2 miles out there. You can't really "call me out." What's next, are you going to accuse Michael Jackson of being a tad bit "odd?"

Your b*itching does nothing to solve the problem

You're right. That's why I put my money where my mouth is. I essentially refused two months of work at my choice of CVS, Rite Aid, or Walmart without the promise or overt prospect of future work just so I could specifically NOT work for them and wait for a better job to come around. When it did, I took it.

especially when some of your vitriol is directed at your fellow pharmacists.

Yup, sure is. The ones that just want to ride it out and entered the profession to ride the gravy train, not advance it. They bloody deserve it, too. I ain't holding jack back because of them. It's rather simple. CLEARLY the major retail chains have destroyed what was once a great profession - community pharmacy. It's not even debatable. Yet nobody actually does anything about it because pharmacy is filled with a bunch of passive-aggressive dweebs that do nothing. They just take solace in the fact that their income is over the psychological 6-figure mark and STFU because they don't want to bite the hand of the honey pot that feeds them.

You have no reason to judge all pharmacists based on your limited experience. Who the heck do you think you are?

Who do I think I am? A dude who is sick of the CVSs of the world diluting the value of my profession and the pharmacists that help enable the process by working for said establishments. If you want to work community, take a pay cut and get in with an independent that does medication management. You'd have BEYOND my utmost respect. THOSE types of community pharmacists are the gems of the profession. In fact, the greatest pharmacist I've ever met was an independent pharmacist that actually counseled EVERY patient and knew EVERY patient that walked through his doors. They weren't just names to him...they were people. He could just watch the door, see a person walk in, grab their meds because he knew them, and would begin talking to them for 10 minutes about how the rest of their medications were doing. He would take calls at home and reopen his pharmacy in rural WV at 2AM if one of his patients (in the truest sense of the word) needed pain meds after an accident. He's a true pharmacist. He gives all and leaves none. He has a true passion for his profession and it reflects in his work and how much people respect him. He's a personal hero of mine, in fact.

But here's the deal - you DO NOT get that in big-box retail pharmacy. In fact, you get the opposite. You have pharmacy "practice" that very literally relies on profit margins. That isn't a way to practice. The kicker is that I ACTUALLY used to be like that. It was all about money for me, but I actually changed how I view the profession. I actually started to take a bit of pride in it. And when that happened, I began to analyze exactly what's going on in the profession. But to sum it up - my "vitrol" is reserved for the pill counters at the retail giants whose corporate paradigm do not allow true pharmacy practice such as that to be practiced as it becomes all about the Benjis. Like Popeye...I is who I is. Am I curt? Of course. Do you think I'm an *******? Probably. Do I care? Not really. On my personal list of concerns, "random vet student in VA not liking my internet postings about the profession of pharmacy" isn't that highly up there. Nonetheless, I believe I'm right, and this is an issue I'm rather adamant and passionate about. I wish the profession could be saved from the grasp of corporate pharmacy. But some people have to stand up and refuse to work for these people. The only language they speak is capitalism. I'm just one dude...and I did all I really can do...which is to just not work for them. Will others? Or will they just smile and take it without any introspection?

I can see why it would be hard for you to get laid.

It is? I'm married. Oh...wait...yeah.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Close this thread. Mr. loo has already delivered the knockout punch .

You must be one of those *******es that thought Drago was gonna win in Rocky IV.

 

[Glycerin]

You must be one of those *******es that thought Drago was gonna win in Rocky IV.

IMO, best Rocky ever, though I'm sure some will disagree.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

IMO, best Rocky ever, though I'm sure some will disagree.

Hell yes it was. Rocky won the Cold War.

 

[MountainPharmD]

There is no way that Rocky could ever beat Drago in a real fight. That guy is a beast. It was the best Rocky by a hair over Rocky III with Mr. T.

 

[Farmercyst]

Close this thread. Mr. loo has already delivered the knockout punch .

Or, perhaps people can attempt to learn self-control.

 

[loo]

*sigh*

Please give me the clif notes version next time

OK.

"Oh-WVU,-you're-the-man. Oh-God-I-wish-I-was-as-smart-as-you,-but-I'll-never-be. I-am-such-a-loser. All-hail-the-almighty-rural-hospital-pharmacy-god.

Now will you shut up?

Gee, I'd wager a guess that some of your classmates (who sat in the same classes with you) took jobs in retail. Does that make them less qualified than you?

Fantastic. So you lived on loans until you found a job you wanted. Good for you! How dare you judge others for their choices?

Here's some unsolicited advice: Be careful not to s**t where you eat or sleep.

BTW, feel free to participate in this summer's free neutering clinics. If you volunteer yours, I'll even let you choose the anesthetic if you like. I could use the practice and you only need one testicle...

 

[WVUPharm2007]

*sigh*

Please give me the clif notes version next time

I type. I'm kind crazy. My opinions usually piss someone off. You can read or not read. This makes the third time you've complained about reading something put out there that nobody is forcing you to read. If it annoys you, don't read it. Again...back button. It's there for a reason.

"Oh-WVU,-you're-the-man. Oh-God-I-wish-I-was-as-smart-as-you,-but-I'll-never-be. I-am-such-a-loser. All-hail-the-almighty-rural-hospital-pharmacy-god.

Now will you shut up?

Well, if you are too lazy to actually formulate a response to the reasons why I think retail pharmacy is destroying my profession in lieu of name calling and assuming I'm trying to intellectually batter you to death, I suppose that perhaps the previous hyphen-saturated sentence may in fact be true. Though I don't endorse it. What's the point of perpetuating this if you can't or won't defend retail pharmacy? Just to keep saying that you think I'm full of it? If you are going to "call me out", expect a response that might actually be thought-out and long. Though I wouldn't call the above "long". It's like four paragraphs.

Gee, I'd wager a guess that some of your classmates (who sat in the same classes with you) took jobs in retail. Does that make them less qualified than you?

Who said anything about qualifications? Hell, my GPA was like 2.9 and it took me 5 years to graduate. You're barking up the wrong tree on this one. This has nothing to do with intelligence or ability; it has to do with whoring yourself out to the business world in a way that actively harms your profession. Which is what corporate retail pharmacy does. Some of the brightest people I know made the error of choosing retail pharmacy. And many of them quit within months. In fact, one quit CVS and is working in the ICU at WVUH as I speak because he hated what retail had become. His words.

Fantastic. So you lived on loans until you found a job you wanted. Good for you!

Well, you implied that all I do is whine about it. I felt I needed to show that I'm not just blowing smoke...because I'm not. I would rather not work than contribute to one of those companies.

How dare you judge others for their choices?

Well...how can you judge me for judging them? Nothing like an argument hinged upon hypocrisy.

And the reason I am critical of them is because, again, retail pharmacy is harming the profession. MY profession. It indirectly affects me...and may soon directly affect me. The corporate retail pharmacisits help perpetuate the foothold it has on our profession that is actively stymieing its progression. Do you have any idea what the possibilities of community pharmacy are? We could help decrease morbidity and mortality so very, very much if we chose to spur the current count, lick, and stick paradigm that the retail giants are sequestering us under. COMPLACENCY with a 6-figure income is a tough thing to overcome. It's unfortunate.

Here's some unsolicited advice: Be careful not to s**t where you eat or sleep.

Well..I'd rather switch professions before I worked for big-box pharmacy, so I suppose you're "advice" is unwarranted and not applicable.

BTW, feel free to participate in this summer's free neutering clinics. If you volunteer yours, I'll even let you choose the anesthetic if you like. I could use the practice and you only need one testicle...

The ad hominem. The last refuge of a scoundrel. I actually do not want children, anyway. Rest easy.

 

[cutiger]

Just to be clear, is WVU a Hospital Pharmacist or a Clinical Pharmacist? And by Clinical I mean went and did at least a 1 yr residency... Hospital Pharmacy just doesn't have any appeal for me (First of all I'd rather not be around a place where people are likely to die day in and day out, just not my cup of tea, or annoying nurses, etc). I still might look towards Clinical Pharmacy, but by the time I graduate it will have been 9 years (4 undergrad, 1 off, 4 pharmD) since I started college, and I really don't have the desire to move on. I think I'll be ready to actually have a full-time job and start a life. You can't really say that a Hospital pharmacist is so much better than a Retail, might just be their preference on where they wanna do their job at.

 

[Old Timer]

Well, I suppose it's all about perspective. You say I'm on a high horse. I say I'm standing on level ground with pharmacists who work legit community, nuclear, LTC, ambulatory care, industry, academic, clinical, and a bazillion other...looking down into the pits of Hades known as corporate retail pharmacy and just wondering....why?

It is certainly about perspective. You have been a pharmacist for about 15 minutes. I have been practicing community pharmacy for over 26 years. That means I started either before you were born or when you were still crapping in your diapers. I have practiced in just about every community setting. Trained in fitting all types of DME equipment. Member of the ASCP.

I was an independent community pharmacist for 19 of those 26 years. If you think that all independent pharmacy is great and chains suck, it means you have no perspective. You have never been a pharmacist in either setting. You have no real clue what goes on in these places.

If you think community pharmacy practice is being destroyed by chain pharmacies, you are sadly mistaken. You are ignorant of the facts and in a word you are wrong. I would be happy to explain the death of independent community pharmacy to you, if you would like me to, but please don't pretend you know what went on in the profession almost 20 years before you came on the scene, mouth blazing.

The chains are reacting to the market conditions, not dictating the market conditions, as you suggest. I have been able to do more community outreach at CVS (all paid by the way) than I ever was when I worked for independents. I have done three community talks last quarter (Medicare Part D, Osteoporosis and High Cholesterol).

Do you have any idea what the possibilities of community pharmacy are? We could help decrease morbidity and mortality so very, very much if we chose to spur the current count, lick, and stick paradigm that the retail giants are sequestering us under. COMPLACENCY with a 6-figure income is a tough thing to overcome. It's unfortunate.

I know exactly what the possibilities are. I have been fighting the battle for as long as I have been in practice and it is the independents who are really into the lick/stick/bag mentality.

I am my patient's advocate. With the doctor, with the insurance company with their own lack of compliance. I help people just about every day. I have saved lives and I have done these things working for a giant corporate retail pharmacy. Do I get paid a lot, sure. But I work hard. Do I like perks sure I do.

But if you think I sold my soul to work for CVS, you better come to town and shadow me for a while. You have no perspective at all. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, just as long as you and everybody else knows, it's just an opinion. It has no relationship to the real world. Look me up in 25 years and we can chat then, after you gain some perspective....

 

[loo]

Thanks for your responses, OldTimer and Cutiger...I admit that I've become a little impatient with self-righteous gasbags over the years.

You both hit the nail on the head. My response to the latest diatribe was going to be, "Call me in ten years...but you both beat me to it (and quite eloquently, I might add).

But I think I'd get the same stubborn answer because he already "knows it all".

WVU--your fight is with corporations and they way they do business, not individual pharmacists who have to make choices based on what currently exists out there. If you think all pharmacists in retail are like you describe, you are wrong and are therefore making a broad generalization about a group of people...

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

Well, I suppose it's all about perspective. You say I'm on a high horse. I say I'm standing on level ground with pharmacists who work legit community, nuclear, LTC, ambulatory care, industry, academic, clinical, and a bazillion other...looking down into the pits of Hades known as corporate retail pharmacy and just wondering....why? What other self-respecting health profession pays off people for transferring their business? If I switch PCPs, do I get a $20 gift certificate at The Gap? Or professions that do loss-leader services? Are there dentists at WalMart giving you a quick cavity check on a conveyor belt of humanity for $4? Oh...and...seriously...drive-throughs? Do psychiatrists offer drive-though counseling?

CORPORATE retail pharmacy is laughable...and embarrassing. I actually quit the aforementioned retail internship because it is what it is. I just didn't work for months. Lived off of loans. In fact, I actually went 2 months AFTER graduating without a job (and many retail jobs were available) specifically because I refuse to work at any corporate pharmacy for any reason ever again. I waited for a real job to open up and I jumped on it.



Hmm...I see you haven't taken my "back button on the browser" advise.



Blah, blah, blah, ok, good for you. You told me I should "shut up". Upon which I replied that if you don't want to read my insane ramblings...well...don't read them. You can feel free to continue to fail at "calling me out". Again, I got the Appalachian Scots-Irish thing going. I love to argue. I probably should have been a lawyer. But, really, I'm already about 2 miles out there. You can't really "call me out." What's next, are you going to accuse Michael Jackson of being a tad bit "odd?"



You're right. That's why I put my money where my mouth is. I essentially refused two months of work at my choice of CVS, Rite Aid, or Walmart without the promise or overt prospect of future work just so I could specifically NOT work for them and wait for a better job to come around. When it did, I took it.



Yup, sure is. The ones that just want to ride it out and entered the profession to ride the gravy train, not advance it. They bloody deserve it, too. I ain't holding jack back because of them. It's rather simple. CLEARLY the major retail chains have destroyed what was once a great profession - community pharmacy. It's not even debatable. Yet nobody actually does anything about it because pharmacy is filled with a bunch of passive-aggressive dweebs that do nothing. They just take solace in the fact that their income is over the psychological 6-figure mark and STFU because they don't want to bite the hand of the honey pot that feeds them.




Who do I think I am? A dude who is sick of the CVSs of the world diluting the value of my profession and the pharmacists that help enable the process by working for said establishments. If you want to work community, take a pay cut and get in with an independent that does medication management. You'd have BEYOND my utmost respect. THOSE types of community pharmacists are the gems of the profession. In fact, the greatest pharmacist I've ever met was an independent pharmacist that actually counseled EVERY patient and knew EVERY patient that walked through his doors. They weren't just names to him...they were people. He could just watch the door, see a person walk in, grab their meds because he knew them, and would begin talking to them for 10 minutes about how the rest of their medications were doing. He would take calls at home and reopen his pharmacy in rural WV at 2AM if one of his patients (in the truest sense of the word) needed pain meds after an accident. He's a true pharmacist. He gives all and leaves none. He has a true passion for his profession and it reflects in his work and how much people respect him. He's a personal hero of mine, in fact.

But here's the deal - you DO NOT get that in big-box retail pharmacy. In fact, you get the opposite. You have pharmacy "practice" that very literally relies on profit margins. That isn't a way to practice. The kicker is that I ACTUALLY used to be like that. It was all about money for me, but I actually changed how I view the profession. I actually started to take a bit of pride in it. And when that happened, I began to analyze exactly what's going on in the profession. But to sum it up - my "vitrol" is reserved for the pill counters at the retail giants whose corporate paradigm do not allow true pharmacy practice such as that to be practiced as it becomes all about the Benjis. Like Popeye...I is who I is. Am I curt? Of course. Do you think I'm an *******? Probably. Do I care? Not really. On my personal list of concerns, "random vet student in VA not liking my internet postings about the profession of pharmacy" isn't that highly up there. Nonetheless, I believe I'm right, and this is an issue I'm rather adamant and passionate about. I wish the profession could be saved from the grasp of corporate pharmacy. But some people have to stand up and refuse to work for these people. The only language they speak is capitalism. I'm just one dude...and I did all I really can do...which is to just not work for them. Will others? Or will they just smile and take it without any introspection?



It is? I'm married. Oh...wait...yeah.

So...not that anyone asked, but here's what I'm thinking.

I agree with you more than you think on this Mikey. I honestly do. If things are going to get any better, "we" (pharmacists), are going to have to stand our ground and demand that the changes we'd like to see happen take place. This applies to any practice area though.

Now, in any personal setting or conversation...my tone/candor is probably very similar to yours...the current state of community pharmacy is not one that I would work in, and I'd be happy to explain why that is to them.

However, if your intentions on a public forum are along the lines of "rallying the troops", and inspiring colleagues to make a change...belittling their career choices/daily work duties/training, etc., ad nauseum, is not the way to go about it. People take pride in the work and jobs they do...even if they hate it. It's a part of them, and insults will not advance anyone's cause. There's absolutely no benefit to perpetuating animosity between "hospital" and "retail". Pharmacists are needed in both settings (among others)...choosing which one we pursue is a personal career choice.

So, by saying that this all affects you, and that you want to see changes made...if that's really the case, I'd start by bringing pharmacists together and taking small steps forward. Find common goals and stick to them...but the bickering really needs to stop; it's pointless and actually does more harm than good.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Just to be clear, is WVU a Hospital Pharmacist or a Clinical Pharmacist? And by Clinical I mean went and did at least a 1 yr residency... Hospital Pharmacy just doesn't have any appeal for me (First of all I'd rather not be around a place where people are likely to die day in and day out, just not my cup of tea, or annoying nurses, etc). I still might look towards Clinical Pharmacy, but by the time I graduate it will have been 9 years (4 undergrad, 1 off, 4 pharmD) since I started college, and I really don't have the desire to move on. I think I'll be ready to actually have a full-time job and start a life. You can't really say that a Hospital pharmacist is so much better than a Retail, might just be their preference on where they wanna do their job at.

You don't have to do a residency to do clinical work...that's your first error. True, I have to do order entry, but the rest of it is clinical ****. And when physician order entry is done, I won't do any of it. Please don't compare what I do to what retail (by which I mean corporate) is doing to the profession. I don't give people gift cards or free movies if their script isn't done in 15 minutes. You seem to not understand what my grievance with retail is. It isn't the work, it's how they are devaluing the profession.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

So...not that anyone asked, but here's what I'm thinking.

I agree with you more than you think on this Mikey. I honestly do. If things are going to get any better, "we" (pharmacists), are going to have to stand our ground and demand that the changes we'd like to see happen take place. This applies to any practice area though.

Now, in any personal setting or conversation...my tone/candor is probably very similar to yours...the current state of community pharmacy is not one that I would work in, and I'd be happy to explain why that is to them.

However, if your intentions on a public forum are along the lines of "rallying the troops", and inspiring colleagues to make a change...belittling their career choices/daily work duties/training, etc., ad nauseum, is not the way to go about it. People take pride in the work and jobs they do...even if they hate it. It's a part of them, and insults will not advance anyone's cause. There's absolutely no benefit to perpetuating animosity between "hospital" and "retail". Pharmacists are needed in both settings (among others)...choosing which one we pursue is a personal career choice.

So, by saying that this all affects you, and that you want to see changes made...if that's really the case, I'd start by bringing pharmacists together and taking small steps forward. Find common goals and stick to them...but the bickering really needs to stop; it's pointless and actually does more harm than good.

Yeah...you're right...but I've pretty much succumb to the fact that retail is beyond saving. All that leaves is complaining. And complaining I will do.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

WVU--your fight is with corporations and they way they do business, not individual pharmacists who have to make choices based on what currently exists out there. If you think all pharmacists in retail are like you describe, you are wrong and are therefore making a broad generalization about a group of people...

If the ONLY job you could get is in retail...I guess I could understand. Most people aren't as gung-ho about what they believe in as me...obviously. But I will still give them **** for being sell-outs. I've actually said this to people I know...face to face..."dude...stop working for CVS, you sell out."

There is a reason retail pays more. Sure...there are retail pharmacists that want to enter retail for the right reasons...and they have my respect, they really do...but if you think any more than a small fraction get to practice pharmacy the way it was meant to be practiced, you are nuts. And if they stay and are complacent with the system, then they, unfortunately, are part of the problem. It is what it is.

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

Yeah...you're right...but I've pretty much succumb to the fact that retail is beyond saving. All that leaves is complaining. And complaining I will do.

So here's a funny thought…and I used to think about this often as a P4, not really sure why it couldn't work. (It's actually a union-type mentality that I rarely support...so I have no idea why this ever even crossed my mind). There are what, a handful of pharmacy schools in Florida? What if all of the new grads agreed on a few basic things that they thought would advance their practice setting/profession. I don't know...more tech staffing, no coupons/$ for transfers, 20 minutes to eat your sandwich, more outreach/clinics...anything; nothing outrageous, just a few things they thought were worth "fighting for"...and then demand it. New grads will refuse to work for said chains unless these few changes were put into place. If everyone came to that agreement...how could they say no?

Gosh, I know that sounds blasphemous...

 

[WVUPharm2007]

It is certainly about perspective. You have been a pharmacist for about 15 minutes. I have been practicing community pharmacy for over 26 years. That means I started either before you were born or when you were still crapping in your diapers. I have practiced in just about every community setting. Trained in fitting all types of DME equipment. Member of the ASCP.

I was an independent community pharmacist for 19 of those 26 years. If you think that all independent pharmacy is great and chains suck, it means you have no perspective. You have never been a pharmacist in either setting. You have no real clue what goes on in these places.

..............

Well, first off, you should preface all of this with the fact that you are the biggest Rite Aid cheerleader and recruiter on the face of the planet. Not to mention that you are hedging most of your argument off of the fallacy of appeal to authority by which we are to suppose that all you say is true due to you being old.

Anyway....maybe up in Philly it's like this (I'm up there all the time, know a ton of practitioners...they all also complain about how retail sucks...though all of them are under the age of 33...so perhaps Old Timer will think that their perspective is useless)...but not around here. The independents are the ones leading the way. Now I will say that you are 100% correct in saying that some independents are also worthless. I agree. But the only community pharmacies that have impressed me with the services and care for patients that they offer are all independent pharmacies. They stuff they do wouldn't fly in corporate retail. Want to see a real community pharmacy? Check out what WV got going on. Just look at what all they do..DM counseling...seminars several times a week...and on and on. The women that runs the place comes up to the school to lecture us all the time. See takes in like 5 students at a time because there are that many different areas each one can focus on and learn something. And do you think they give you gift cards for transfers? Or have a drive-through? Do you think you'd be allowed to pull all of that off out of CVS? Please.

Let's be real. All they REALLY care about is the bottom line. They might throw up some window dressing like letting you go give a lecture once a year or something, but be real. You know it could and should be better. If you really have been doing this for so long, you know what I'm saying is true. In fact, the Drug Monkey, a man who also has as much experience as you, very closely mimics exactly what I've been saying. Is he a fresh-faced neophyte with no idea what he's talking about, too. If you think I'm bad, go to the clinical dept at a pharmacy school. Hell, they don't even like the idea of a pharmacists dispensing anything...I got in trouble one time (er...one of the times I got in trouble...) and they tried to belittle me by implying to me that I'd just wind up as another loser in retail and that I don't have the passion to practice real pharmacy.

But anyway...you're right...we DO live in a capitalist economic society and unfortunately this means that CVS, WAGS, and Rite Aid do not give a damn about the quality of pharmacy practice if it affects their bottom line. Which, unfortunately...it usually does. It's not just me saying this...it's a blue billion pharmacists I've ever spoken to with a background in retail and from my own experience which, granted, is only being drawn from about 6 years of being around retail pharmacy...which OBVIOUSLY isn't enough time for anyone to get an idea a to what's going on....

And why the hell do old people always say "talk to me in 5-25 years?" Every single person that's ever said that to me that knows me in real life has been dead wrong. Like how my parents think that my rejection of religion and atheism is just a "phase." Yeah. Or my sister's Beanie Baby collection I didn't decide to go in with her on. Yeah lost out on millions wit that one. How the hell does it make any sense to say **** like that in a dynamic world? For all we know, there may very well not be but only a central pharmacist covering a dozen stores in retail pharmacy when 20 years come and go. Not that the retail giants would push such a cost-saving proposal...they all love us...like Barney and friends. I'll will say this though - I do respect Old Timer. Anyone who actually cares enough to go online and be a mentor has to care a little bit...though I can't understand why he can't see that the emperor has no clothes.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

So here’s a funny thought…and I used to think about this often as a P4, not really sure why it couldn't work. (It's actually a union-type mentality that I rarely support...so I have no idea why this ever even crossed my mind). There are what, a handful of pharmacy schools in Florida? What if all of the new grads agreed on a few basic things that they thought would advance their practice setting/profession. I don’t know...more tech staffing, no coupons/$ for transfers, 20 minutes to eat your sandwich, more outreach/clinics...anything; nothing outrageous, just a few things they thought were worth “fighting for”...and then demand it. New grads will refuse to work for said chains unless these few changes were put into place. If everyone came to that agreement...how could they say no?

Gosh, I know that sounds blasphemous...

They would then go to somewhere else and just offer more money for grads elsewhere...them Florida kids is crazy!

 

[genesis09]

Walgreens pharmacists in Chicago are unionized. However, they have not been able to accomplish anything. In fact, the numbers needed to trigger a third pharmacist is higher in the Chicago market than in most other markets.
Community practice is what you make of it. I have talked to pharmacists who are burnt out by working for a chain. I have met chain pharmacists who love the job and can't wait until the next day. One of the burnt out ones gave me a list of problems. Yes, there are problems in every field. Was he doing anything about solving those problems? No, he was just complaining about them. We need to stop complaining to each other and act. Problems do not solve themselves without someone advocating for their solution.

 

[Old Timer]

Well, first off, you should preface all of this with the fact that you are the biggest Rite Aid cheerleader and recruiter on the face of the planet.

First of all, I work for CVS. I don't work for Rite Aid. Next I am not a recruiter nor or am I in field management in anyway

Not to mention that you are hedging most of your argument off of the fallacy of appeal to authority by which we are to suppose that all you say is true due to you being old.

I am not hedging my arguments with an appeal to authority. I am saying you lack perspective as you have no clue what community pharmacy practice was like back in the "Golden Era", when there were no chain pharmacies or not enough to dominate the market as they do today. I do know exactly how the current problems in community came about and the chains did not cause it, they are the result, not the cause.

Anyway....maybe up in Philly it's like this (I'm up there all the time, know a ton of practitioners...they all also complain about how retail sucks...)...but not around here. The independents are the ones leading the way. Now I will say that you are 100% correct in saying that some independents are also worthless. I agree. But the only community pharmacies that have impressed me with the services and care for patients that they offer are all independent pharmacies. They stuff they do wouldn't fly in corporate retail. Want to see a real community pharmacy? Check out what WV got going on. Just look at what all they do..DM counseling...seminars several times a week...and on and on. The women that runs the place comes up to the school to lecture us all the time. See takes in like 5 students at a time because there are that many different areas each one can focus on and learn something. And do you think they give you gift cards for transfers? Or have a drive-through? Do you think you'd be allowed to pull all of that off out of CVS? Please.

Maybe in Philly it is. Maybe that's the way I choose to practice. It's up to each practitioner to practice the way they see fit. I have never been told "don't do that" I have never been told "go faster".

Let's be real. All they REALLY care about is the bottom line. They might throw up some window dressing like letting you go give a lecture once a year or something, but be real. You know it could and should be better.

Now you know why they "let me" do these talks.... It's window dressing. You know the motivation of every person....

If you really have been doing this for so long, you know what I'm saying is true. In fact, the Drug Monkey, a man who also has as much experience as you, very closely mimics exactly what I've been saying. Is he a fresh-faced neophyte with no idea what he's talking about, too.

I don't know him, but reading through his blog, he just doesn't like working with public. I can understand that. It can certainly be trying at times. I can tell you this, they were just as big jerks when I worked independent than I worked for the chains. The problem is the public is very narcissistic, but that comes from the lack of religion in our society, (but that is whole different kettle of fish). It has nothing to do with chain pharmacy practice. There is no such thing as an ass-hole free practice. When you open the doors to the public, anything is likely to walk in.

If you think I'm bad, go to the clinical dept at a pharmacy school. Hell, they don't even like the idea of a pharmacists dispensing anything...I got in trouble one time (er...one of the times I got in trouble...) and they tried to belittle me by implying to me that I'd just wind up as another loser in retail and that I don't have the passion to practice real pharmacy.

I don't think pharmacy schools are doing a good job of training pharmacists. The kids that come out today are very educated, but poorly trained in being a pharmacist. I'll never forget the time I was in pharmacy school and I was trying to explain how Inderal worked and I was being way to technical and was clearly frustrating the old lady. Then my preceptor poked his head around the counter and said "It regulates the herat beat". End of story. Gave the patient the information they needed in a way they could understand. Community practice is where the rubber meets the road. It's not always glamorous and it's not always fun, but if you are in it to help people, it can be very rewarding.

But anyway...you're right...we DO live in a capitalist economic society and unfortunately this means that CVS, WAGS, and Rite Aid do not give a damn about the quality of pharmacy practice if it affects their bottom line. Which, unfortunately...it usually does. It's not just me saying this...it's a blue billion pharmacists I've ever spoken to with a background in retail and from my own experience which, granted, is only being drawn from about 6 years of being around retail pharmacy...which OBVIOUSLY isn't enough time for anyone to get an idea a to what's going on....

This applies to indepedents as well as chains. No profit, no business. The quality of their product is their business. Independents will cut faster than chains. That's why they are almost extinct.

And why the hell do old people always say "talk to me in 5-25 years?" Every single person that's ever said that to me that knows me in real life has been dead wrong. Like how my parents think that my rejection of religion and atheism is just a "phase." Yeah. Or my sister's Beanie Baby collection I didn't decide to go in with her on. Yeah lost out on millions wit that one. How the hell does it make any sense to say **** like that in a dynamic world?

Well there some straw men arguments here. The religion thing is a whole different kettle of fish. I understand why people don't believe in God, and that is their choice. Just don't think there are no concequences when a society is Godless. That doesn't mean there are no problems with a religious society.
The beanie thing is a clear straw man. That is looking into the future. What you are doing is looking at the present and making assumptions about how we got here and your assumptions have no basis in fact.

For all we know, there may very well not be but only a central pharmacist covering a dozen stores in retail pharmacy when 20 years come and go. Not that the retail giants would push such a cost-saving proposal...they all love us...like Barney and friends...

Listen Mikey, I know you like to play the "I'm a dumb redneck" card. But you don't fool me for a second. You are a pretty bright guy. I'm just trying to give some perspective. That perspective comes from doing this for a long time. I have seen more than you. The chains are not the be all and end all of pharmacy. I would not for one minute stand there and try to blow that smoke up your ass. I can't even speak for the entire Philadelphia market. I can only speak for my little corner of it. Maybe I am just lucky.

There is one thing that Spriva said that is true. Every pharmacist needs to stand up for themselves and practice pharmacy the way they see fit within the parameters of their employer. I don't have a problem doing it. You are a credit to the profession, because you are passionate. If you want to get together the next time your in town, I'll give the low down on what happened to community pharmacy. I am telling you the chains are not the cause, they are the result.

 

[MountainPharmD]

So here’s a funny thought…and I used to think about this often as a P4, not really sure why it couldn't work. (It's actually a union-type mentality that I rarely support...so I have no idea why this ever even crossed my mind). There are what, a handful of pharmacy schools in Florida? What if all of the new grads agreed on a few basic things that they thought would advance their practice setting/profession. I don’t know...more tech staffing, no coupons/$ for transfers, 20 minutes to eat your sandwich, more outreach/clinics...anything; nothing outrageous, just a few things they thought were worth “fighting for”...and then demand it. New grads will refuse to work for said chains unless these few changes were put into place. If everyone came to that agreement...how could they say no?

Gosh, I know that sounds blasphemous...

How about we get ALL pharmacists to join the The Pharmacy Alliance? We all should be demanding to be treated with dignity, integety and respect.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

First of all, I work for CVS. I don't work for Rite Aid. Next I am not a recruiter nor or am I in field management in anyway

CVS, Rite Aid...whichever...either way I'm always seeing you defend them...it's as bad as me defending WVU to the death on the NCAA Football thread...but that's just for fun...

I am not hedging my arguments with an appeal to authority.

By definition you are...

I am saying you lack perspective as you have no clue what community pharmacy practice was like back in the "Golden Era", when there were no chain pharmacies or not enough to dominate the market as they do today. I do know exactly how the current problems in community came about and the chains did not cause it, they are the result, not the cause.

The reason the chains have taken over are the reason chains have taken over anywhere. It's how capitalism works. Those with the most economic power always win. But, really, how does that affect how f'd up everything is now? They are the ones that pushed the $4 Rx List...the gift card for transfers...the lack of a lunch (big up to Wally World on this one..)...and on and on. Then you have insurance...and the retail corps get on their knees to provide that service...who the hell's idea was it to make a pharmacist an insurance claims specialist? Probably not an independent...isn't it kind of silly to blame this all on the independents?

Maybe in Philly it is. Maybe that's the way I choose to practice. It's up to each practitioner to practice the way they see fit. I have never been told "don't do that" I have never been told "go faster".

So you are ok with polypharmacy being promoted with gift cards? Or the potential danger of making a person work 12 hours with no break? You have to admit that you're lying if you say they don't dictate how you practice...they do. The question is - have you challenged any of the ridiculous crap they make you do? Have you tried to refuse any of their idiot programs? You can't really say they let everyone practice how they would like unless either you are perfectly fine with all of their programs or they actually changed company policy for everyone that complains. Of course they don't tell you how to practice on site...that's a service that has been provided to them by the school that educated you. Unless it reduces legal liability without costing them anything, I'm sure they couldn't care less as it doesn't affect their bottom line. Ask them if you can get a lunch break or put off doing some scripts for tomorrow so you can advise patients in-depth and lets see what they say.

...a bunch of stuff i have no comment/prob with...

The problem is the public is very narcissistic, but that comes from the lack of religion in our society, (but that is whole different kettle of fish).

Riiiight.

It has nothing to do with chain pharmacy practice. There is no such thing as an ass-hole free practice. When you open the doors to the public, anything is likely to walk in.

Well...that's true everywhere. I don't work with the public, but the people I work with have to deal with a huge ******* the moment I walk in the door.

I don't think pharmacy schools are doing a good job of training pharmacists. The kids that come out today are very educated, but poorly trained in being a pharmacist.

Yup.

I'll never forget the time I was in pharmacy school and I was trying to explain how Inderal worked and I was being way to technical and was clearly frustrating the old lady. Then my preceptor poked his head around the counter and said "It regulates the herat beat". End of story. Gave the patient the information they needed in a way they could understand. [/quote]

That happened to me when I made the mistake of trying to explain the difference between Nexium and Prilosec to some dude. That was a mistake....

Community practice is where the rubber meets the road. It's not always glamorous and it's not always fun, but if you are in it to help people, it can be very rewarding.

I like to read that...I really do. But I just can't understand why people who REALLY do want that can be so complacent and then DEFEND these big box pharmacies.

This applies to indepedents as well as chains. No profit, no business. The quality of their product is their business. Independents will cut faster than chains. That's why they are almost extinct.

Well, again, I'd argue it's simply for the same reason that WalMart is here and Murphey's General Store isn't. The most ruthless win...

Well there some straw men arguments here. The religion thing is a whole different kettle of fish. I understand why people don't believe in God, and that is their choice. Just don't think there are no concequences when a society is Godless. That doesn't mean there are no problems with a religious society.
The beanie thing is a clear straw man. That is looking into the future. What you are doing is looking at the present and making assumptions about how we got here and your assumptions have no basis in fact.

I'm not really trying to make any argument. I'm whining about another older person wave their finger in front of my face and assume what will happen to me in 10 years. Which is crazy and not really worthy of discussion at all...but people still feel the need to do it...and I still feel the need to voice my annoyance by it. But really to smugly proclaim that I'll *really* understand in 10 years is ludicrous.

Listen Mikey, I know you like to play the "I'm a dumb redneck" card.

But I am a dumb redneck.

But you don't fool me for a second. You are a pretty bright guy. I'm just trying to give some perspective. That perspective comes from doing this for a long time. I have seen more than you. The chains are not the be all and end all of pharmacy. I would not for one minute stand there and try to blow that smoke up your ass. I can't even speak for the entire Philadelphia market. I can only speak for my little corner of it. Maybe I am just lucky.

There is one thing that Spriva said that is true. Every pharmacist needs to e stand up for themselves and practice pharmacy the way they see fit within the parameters of their employer. I don't have a problem doing it. You are a credit to the profession, because you are passionate. If you want to get together the next time your in town, I'll give the low down on what happened to community pharmacy. I am telling you the chains are not the cause, they are the result.

Lol...ok...where are you? In town? I can't see you manning one of the 30 CVS' I see driving down Broad Street...I know a dude that works at one of those. He's moving up to a store in Bucks Co. in the burbs as of...well..I guess last week..and is threw a huge celebration party for leaving the "ghetto" as he calls it.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

How about we get ALL pharmacists to join the The Pharmacy Alliance? We all should be demanding to be treated with dignity, integety and respect.

There we go. Get mad! Vive le revolucion.

 

[MountainPharmD]

I am telling you the chains are not the cause, they are the result.

How are they not the cause? They are the ones that in mass accept the sh*tty PBM contracts. They are the ones that have tried to out fast food each other with drive throughs, gift cards and $4 generics. If one chain would have had the balls to stand up and say "hell no" we would not be in this mess.

Look what just happened when congress tried to cut Medicare reimbursement for Doctors. There was such an uproar that Congress called a special session to repeal them. You know why? Because Doctors said fine you cut my reimbursement and we don't see Medicare patients anymore. In my home town the biggest clinic put up signs that said “ Due to federal cuts in Medicare we will no longer be accepting Medicare patients.” Congress saw the public relations nightmare in this and fixed it quick.

All it takes is one chain to have the balls to stand up.

 

[Old Timer]

How are they not the cause? They are the ones that in mass accept the sh*tty PBM contracts. They are the ones that have tried to out fast food each other with drive throughs, gift cards and $4 generics. If one chain would have had the balls to stand up and say "hell no" we would not be in this mess.

CVS refuses to sign many contracts. We refused two of the three welfare HMO's in the city for years until they could get better terms......

Look what just happened when congress tried to cut Medicare reimbursement for Doctors. There was such an uproar that Congress called a special session to repeal them. You know why? Because Doctors said fine you cut my reimbursement and we don't see Medicare patients anymore. In my home town the biggest clinic put up signs that said “ Due to federal cuts in Medicare we will no longer be accepting Medicare patients.” Congress saw the public relations nightmare in this and fixed it quick.

All it takes is one chain to have the balls to stand up.

Who do you think spearheaded the fight against AMP?

 

[bigpharmD]

I personally think we will see a rise in the number of indies again. More and more are popping up where I live now. I think patients (customers) are getting sick of the bull*(* from retail giants. At least we arent the only ones being affected by the retail giants. They are taking over every part of healthcare. Just look at optometry. Soon they will take over physicians too. When there is money to be had they will come.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

When there is money to be siphoned from the work of healthcare professionals they will come.

..fixed...

 

[Old Timer]

CVS, Rite Aid...whichever...either way I'm always seeing you defend them...it's as bad as me defending WVU to the death on the NCAA Football thread...but that's just for fun...

You have never ever ever ever seen me defend Rite Aid.

The reason the chains have taken over are the reason chains have taken over anywhere. It's how capitalism works. Those with the most economic power always win. But, really, how does that affect how f'd up everything is now? They are the ones that pushed the $4 Rx List...the gift card for transfers...the lack of a lunch (big up to Wally World on this one..)...and on and on. Then you have insurance...and the retail corps get on their knees to provide that service...who the hell's idea was it to make a pharmacist an insurance claims specialist? Probably not an independent...isn't it kind of silly to blame this all on the independents?

You need to get back into your time machine to see that this is just not so. You are getting warmer. Without spending 5000 words to explain there are two institutions to blame:

1. The Insurance Industry: These are the real culprits. They have destroyed health care. They have turned all of health care into piece work. They have used their anti-trust exemption (only them and major league baseball) granted to them by the other cultprit:
2. The US Congress (especially republicans) They have never blown an opportunity to screw pharmacy. When President Clinton proposed his health care plan, the congress had three choices:

• Pass the plan and change the system
• Defeat the plan and pass an alternative plan and change the system.
• Defeat the plan and politically punish the person who proposed thereby assuring no politician will touch this issue for a long time. This gave culprit number 1 free reign to cut reimbursement to the bone and drive the independents out of business.

There is an honorable mention to the Pharmaceutical industry which has also done a great deal to destroy independent pharmacy by driving the cost of inventory beyond what a small business can realistically manage especially with the ridiculously low reimbursements from the primary suspect.

So you are ok with polypharmacy being promoted with gift cards?

The gift cards don't bother me. When I was an Independent we advertised and we advertised on price. It's the nature of business. I always try to speak to people with about this issue when they come in with a gift card.

Or the potential danger of making a person work 12 hours with no break?

Well here I have to disagree with you. I personally prefer to work 12 hour shifts and have more days off. I don't find I make more mistakes at night than I do at 10AM. The pharmacists in my district get to decide for themselves whether to do long shifts or short shifts.

You have to admit that you're lying if you say they don't dictate how you practice...they do. The question is - have you challenged any of the ridiculous crap they make you do? Have you tried to refuse any of their idiot programs? You can't really say they let everyone practice how they would like unless either you are perfectly fine with all of their programs or they actually changed company policy for everyone that complains. Of course they don't tell you how to practice on site...that's a service that has been provided to them by the school that educated you. Unless it reduces legal liability without costing them anything, I'm sure they couldn't care less as it doesn't affect their bottom line. Ask them if you can get a lunch break or put off doing some scripts for tomorrow so you can advise patients in-depth and lets see what they say.

Well like I said, I have no problems speaking with people. Maybe I'm really good at time management. Maybe I'm lucky......

I'm not really trying to make any argument. I'm whining about another older person wave their finger in front of my face and assume what will happen to me in 10 years. Which is crazy and not really worthy of discussion at all...but people still feel the need to do it...and I still feel the need to voice my annoyance by it. But really to smugly proclaim that I'll *really* understand in 10 years is ludicrous.

First of all I am not wagging my finger in your face. I'm trying to point out I watched community pharmacy (and my dream of owning my own) destroyed and it was not the chains that did it. They just took advantage of it....

But I am a dumb redneck.

Bull****. That's just a ruse you use to make people underestimate you so you can smash into little pieces and laugh as you complete the task.....

Lol...ok...where are you? In town? I can't see you manning one of the 30 CVS' I see driving down Broad Street...I know a dude that works at one of those. He's moving up to a store in Bucks Co. in the burbs as of...well..I guess last week..and is threw a huge celebration party for leaving the "ghetto" as he calls it.

I do have a problem with "ghetto" stores as people are such dirt bags and so poorly educated it's really hard to get through to them. The store I have been at recently is in a Hispanic area and it does about 5000 scripts a week and I can tell you it's a breeze. That's because the tech staff is outstanding, without that, you would die at that store.....

 

[MountainPharmD]

Old Timer is making some sense.....what is happening here?!?!?!

 

[bananaface]

Not all box pharmacies are big box. I would hate retail with a vengeance if all of my jobs were like the Walgreens I had worked at. But, I've had plenty of positive experiences at regional chains. Now I'm curious to know who you have worked for, Mike.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Not all box pharmacies are big box. I would hate retail with a vengeance if all of my jobs were like the Walgreens I had worked at. But, I've had plenty of positive experiences at regional chains. Now I'm curious to know who you have worked for, Mike.

I worked for Kroger...and the wife worked for Rite Aid. Like me, she has vowed to never work retail. Completely independent of my opinions.

 

[bananaface]

I worked for Kroger...and the wife worked for Rite Aid. Like me, she has vowed to never work retail. Completely independent of my opinions.

How about rotations? You have to have had more than one bad personal experience to be ruined for life on retail.

Rite Aid is on my "no way Jose" list along with Walgreens. I had a good experience at a chain owned by Kroger, but it was mostly independently run and very well staffed.

 

[cutiger]

You don't have to do a residency to do clinical work...that's your first error. True, I have to do order entry, but the rest of it is clinical ****. And when physician order entry is done, I won't do any of it. Please don't compare what I do to what retail (by which I mean corporate) is doing to the profession. I don't give people gift cards or free movies if their script isn't done in 15 minutes. You seem to not understand what my grievance with retail is. It isn't the work, it's how they are devaluing the profession.

I'm gonna use one of your "well up here in PA arguments", But down here in the South, a residency isn't exactly required but I know it is definitely preferred. And if it was both you and someone with that experience, you'd be doing the same thing as everyone else behind the counter instead of out and about on the floors. I understand that you have a problem, but you over embellish your plight with retail. I haven't seen anyone offering gift cards, etc for Rx's not done in 15 minutes, and that's just one of the exaggerated things I've seen you list. Listen I could careless that you have a problem with Retail, maybe you had a bad experience I don't know, but you are entitled to that opinion. But coming on here and yelling/putting down people who actually choose the retail profession is an ass hole way to go about it. Bring it up to an association as a whole, who might actually be able to do something about it.

 

[Old Timer]

Old Timer is making some sense.....what is happening here?!?!?!

Because I call them the way I see them. I don't understand your antipathy towards the chains. They were in the right place at the right time and they were able to capitalize on the insurance industry's decimation of small pharmacies.

Like I said, working for CVS is not all love and sunshine and I don't like everything corporate does. Somethings can be changed and some things can't. But all in all, they are very supportive. They have great resources for the pharmacist and their working conditions are pretty good. Many of the problems in stores comes from the store manager not having the right personnel or properly trained personnel. The fallacy of the CVS model is they assume the entire staff is full trained and performing at a high level. The trouble is that's not reality..... It takes time to train the staff. But if your staff is well trained and works hard for you, doing 5000 scripts a week can be easier than doing 1200 scripts a week with a poorly trained staff.

 

[loo]

All it takes is one chain to have the balls to stand up.

All it takes is pharmacy as a profession to stand on the balls of the chains.

 

[loo]

Why don't we (anyone who works for CVS, Wags, and Rite Aid) pick a day to walk off the job for one day to protest?

Don't have to worry about dereliction of duty...we can just transfer rx's to another pharmacy...patient will still be able to get meds, albeit more slowly. Hit 'em where it hurts most---their pocketbooks.