Is ESIR going to expand a lot?

[Light at end of tunnel]

Who said the goal was to create 100% IR jobs? It is an IR/DR residency after all. I think you have a underlying misunderstanding of the new residency.




The argument that IR's have questionable diagnostic skills due to their training curriculum is nonsense. How is it any different than a diagnostic radiology resident who does a mini-fellowship (say 6 months) in mammography and then a 1 year mammography fellowship. Is that person any better qualified to read neuro or msk? Would you feel more comfortable having them read a body CT or MR for your loved one with a liver mass? Speaking for my practice, I know I'm better qualified as an IR than the mammo guys/gals to read such a film.




I still don't understand why people feel compelled to derail a thread that was designed to discuss the expansion of the ESIR pathway.

Some advice: When I read your posts, I envision someone yelling at me. Over and over again. You've got lots of good points, but eventually we're gonna have to tune you out.

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[Fab5Hill33]

My apologies to all if that's how I'm coming across.

Some advice: When I read your posts, I envision someone yelling at me. Over and over again. You've got lots of good points, but eventually we're gonna have to tune you out.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

My apologies to all if that's how I'm coming across.

It's all good, fab - were all on same team in the end.

 

[badasshairday]

The argument that IR's have questionable diagnostic skills due to their training curriculum is nonsense. How is it any different than a diagnostic radiology resident who does a mini-fellowship (say 6 months) in mammography and then a 1 year mammography fellowship. Is that person any better qualified to read neuro or msk? Would you feel more comfortable having them read a body CT or MR for your loved one with a liver mass? Speaking for my practice, I know I'm better qualified as an IR than the mammo guys/gals to read such a film.

I agree. I don't think IR/DR as it is layed out will make an inferior imaging physician. Some people are doing mammo or US mini fellowships followed by msk fellowship. Are they going to be better than an IR at body imaging, CTA/MRA everywhere, chest, neuro? They will be better at msk and mammo, and that's about it.

 

[IRorBustguy]

guys lol. you pretend like the DR quality from IR/DRs is going to be poor when they graduate. None of these guys are going to be rxpected to read body MRI and neuro and whatever. If you know your strengths (CTA, MRA, CXR, CT) that's probably enough for the DR component. IRs are constantly reading images (especially CT vessels and body)

 

[IRorBustguy]

So can we get back to talking about the ESIR pathway and how much it will expand? As riveting as the discussion has been I'd love to get some insight on this as a rising MS3.

i'd suggest doing research re vascular surgery and how many spots ended up being fellowship only. expect a similar % ending up as esir/independent

 

[badasshairday]

So can we get back to talking about the ESIR pathway and how much it will expand? As riveting as the discussion has been I'd love to get some insight on this as a rising MS3.

Nobody knows what will happen. I can tell you that my program just matched it's first IR residency applicants this past match cycle and plans on creating an ESIR program as well.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm simply stating that the personalities differ tremendously. And because of that ESIR and the IR residency is a good thing. I'll give it about 10 years before IR goes completely rogue like Rad/Onc did a long time ago. Personally, this should have happened 20 years ago itself. Once it all pans out and the kinks are worked through there will be a lot more clinical components. I have seen the IR residency curriculum that my program is rolling out and these guys in the future are going to be way better than me.

Don't mean to bump an old thread, but this really resonate with myself.

I had R1 resident bitching about doing scutwork because "I've done my internship already" and force the R4 to do excessive scut while they are supposed to learn procedures.

I had residents who were PREVIOUSLY surgeons to bitch about leaving at 7pm being too late.

I consider myself an endovascular surgeon and I expect a training schedule on part to surgery training. However, many DR residents rotating through IR complain that they did not sign up to be a surgeon and did not welcome those hours.

I welcome the IR/DR pathway because I will then have junior trainees who understand what does it take to train an IR.

 

[JJArms22]

I wish there was more certainty surrounding the ESIR pathways. I do not have the research or connections to match into an integrated program so I'll be applying to DR. I am a bit nervous though. I have been bored to death on my rotations and don't know if I can see myself being a diagnostic radiologist rather than an IR doc. I do find DR really interesting, but man I sometimes find myself missing talking to patients and doing stuff w/my hands. I feel like IR would be perfect for me, but I also know I likely have a naive perception of the field with such little exposure. If I feel like this, would you guys recommend I even try to apply DR at all? I feel like I'm doing it just to have a shot at doing ESIR since right now I'm finding DR a bit boring for me.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I wish there was more certainty surrounding the ESIR pathways. I do not have the research or connections to match into an integrated program so I'll be applying to DR. I am a bit nervous though. I have been bored to death on my rotations and don't know if I can see myself being a diagnostic radiologist rather than an IR doc. I do find DR really interesting, but man I sometimes find myself missing talking to patients and doing stuff w/my hands. I feel like IR would be perfect for me, but I also know I likely have a naive perception of the field with such little exposure. If I feel like this, would you guys recommend I even try to apply DR at all? I feel like I'm doing it just to have a shot at doing ESIR since right now I'm finding DR a bit boring for me.

Apply to surgery. If IR isn't there I would retrain in surgery rather than do diagnostic radiology.